danmcq

What a story Shanlung!! I am so happy the ending was good. The photos and writing was wonderful, as always. :-) Thank you for always sharing your great adventures with us.

The only thing I have to say regarding this entire thread: I apologize to all those birds we humans keep in our homes. I am sorry you were born in captivity, confined to homes, cages and yes some of you to the ground. Those clipped had the only thing that makes you a bird removed for your owners convenience and false feeling of security. Unfortunately, your body has been completely designed for FLIGHT. Your life will be incomplete. You will always wonder what those wings are for. You have an uncontrollable instinct to flap them at times, yet still just crash down hard. Your physical and mental health will suffer, as well as your life span, which will be much shorter than a flighted bird. I know all you clipped Avian creatures don't know what I am talking about or understand my apology. But believe me, it is given with tears and heart felt grief for you, my flightless Avian friends. Please reconsider before clipping!! A BIRD WITHOUT WINGS. By Anne.M.Kenyon There isn’t a song that anyone sings That’s as sad as the song of a bird without wings. The song of a bird confined to a cage, The song of a bird who has felt human rage. The song of a bird that’s ignored night and day, No sign of good food, no toys, and no play. Hear that pain as this lonely bird sings, That is the song of a bird without wings. The bird that is ill, knowing no-one will care The bird who’s life is loveless and bare. The bird, who in fear has panicked and bit And therefore been screamed at, sworn at and hit. These are the birds who sing their own song, Quietly, sadly, but all day long. If you care, you will hear what this lonely bird sings, This is the song of a bird without wings. But sometimes, along comes a person who cares, Then the bird hears the song that the ‘RESCUER’ shares! And the bird stops to listen, and tilts it’s sweet head, As it hears new sweet words that it’s never heard said. Can you sing to these birds? Help them learn a new song? Can you show them their pain will not last all life long? Oh PLEASE be the person who lovingly sings, And gives flight to a bird, A bird without wings. A.M.Kenyon<br><br>Post edited by: danmcq, at: 2009/08/30 15:27

Well, as you can see from this video. This is NOT a scary toy to keep your Grey away from anything. However, Dayo is VERY afraid of a small mouse with beady eyes. Heres the not to eventful video of the toy, but has good music in the background. :-)

GreYt Photos!!!! :-)

All of us have opinions, like you, that we have based upon our previous life experiences. I would never discourage anyone to investigate for themselves and not just "Buy In" to others opinions. I personally bought chets very early version of his training over 3 years ago and it was obvious then, to me, that he knew very little about parrots and was taping his videos while he was "Trying" to train his parrots. :-) Heck, he was even visibly nervous in a few, which I found less than encouraging of trusting his advice. Regarding starvation. I believe what you described is not starvation, but is a carefully controlled diet that keeps the bird hungry, not starving. I do not agree with this method at all. But, I do know that many professional trainers of all critters use it for training. Personally, I simply use treats I know my Parrots love, but ONLY get them when training or they do something that deserves a favorite treat. I subscribe more to positive reinforcement techniques, rather than what I would consider desperation for more food, due to not being fed enough to satisfy.

Like I said, you can safely give a little bit to your Grey. I cut up jalapeno peppers for my grey and serve it in his vegggie dishes, bean mixes etc. There are also parrot treats like: http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/241823/product.web PEPPER LIFETIME COARSE - http://www.harrisonsbirdfoods.com/products/harrisons.html Zupreme - Wild and Spicy - http://www.petco.com/product/107965/ZuPreem-Avian-Entrees-Wild-and-Spicy-Mix-Ultra-Premium-Bird-Diet-for-Parrots.aspx<br><br>Post edited by: danmcq, at: 2009/08/29 21:08

Very sorry to hear of your loss. You have my condolences and best wishes in dealing with this time of grief.

All living creatures must have some amount of salt. However, the level of salt in treats and chips the we humans eat contain very high levels of salt that are even bad for us. You can give your Parrot a very small portion, say a 1/4 to half inch square and thats it only once or twice a week, not daily. Too much salt in a parrots diet causes very serious health issues.

The reason many of us dislike "Chet" so much. Is he claims to be a "Seasoned Expert". The reality is, he is learning just like other parrot owners and making money by selling his questionable products to unsuspecting newbies thinking he is a professional bird trainer, which he is not. He actually tries to contact and get advice from REAL "Professionals" that have been training Parrots for decades. The rest of his stuff claiming to stop all the bad behaviours is a load of crap. There is a ton of information on this site and others that is much more helpful than Chets stuff and live people willing to help 24/7 from countries all around the world in different time zones. I got an email from him claiming he was "Nuts" but going to put his "Baby Son" at risk of being attacked by a Scarlett Macaw. Now IF that Macaw was truly that unruly, no one in their right mind would take a young child into that room. It was obvious it was just a "Ploy" to get people to go to his propaganda and coerced into buying his "super secret" Parrot training techniques. Regarding clicker training, it works great and there is a ton of "Free" information on the "Web" that is good and teaches you how to do it properly. Chet probably learned his BASICs free from the web and now sells his "Secrets". Sorry, I have nothing but disdain for him and his advice.....<br><br>Post edited by: danmcq, at: 2009/08/29 20:27

Moobu wrote: They will identify each other without clipping wings. Some birds will never become "Buddies". If both birds are flighted, they can stay away from each other very safely. Clipping birds, puts them in danger of an attack they can not escape.

HI Lyn & Alfie!! It's great to hear an update from you. Sorry to hear your going through the maturing process with Alfie, but we all are for the most part. :pinch: All our wee children are growing up, just like our human babies did. Of course, along with growing up comes individualism, personal growth and the testing of boundaries and exercising ones will. :-) Please update more often, you've been missed!!!

Your making very good progress, I think. :-) As Sheila said, just time, patience and love in taking wee steps will get the other behaviours you wish to start.

Welcome Fendana and Squonk!! It's GreYt having you here. It sounds like you have a loving Grey with an attitude towards Men. That can pass with time and patience. If your husband takes part in the feeding and cage cleaning activities and just let Squonk growl. But, doesn't try to interact at a close level until he is comfortable with your husband. You just never know what will set one of these episodes off that takes time to correct. Looking forward to hearing more and seeing photos. :-)

Welcome Brad, Hannah and flock!! It's GreYt having you here. :-) That was a wonderful and thorough introduction, of your entire flock and their history. I really enjoyed reading each members mini biography. :-) Looking forward to hearing lots more and of course seeing photos and videos as the opportunity presents itself. Karma to you for taking in these birds in need of a good loving home.

Happy B-Day Lyric!!! You have grown into one awe inspiring Grey. :-) {Characters-0002005C}{Characters-0002005C}{Characters-0002005C}{Characters-0002005C}

Dave's advice is spot on as always. Our Grey is 2yrs 3 mos old. He is now at the point, that when he gets excited and wants something, be it a toy, place or food he will bite. If he has something and I chase him and take it away. He will throw a fit, then fly at you while your walking away, land in the middle of your back and bite right in the center of your neck HARD PINCH, then fly off when you move your hands back to remove him. The only way we can deal with this, is to cage him, as Dave stated. It must be done when the incident takes pace, not minutes later when there is no relation to the incident that resulted in caging. I have opened the cage, offered the step up and got bitten instantly. At that instant, the cage door closes and I walk away and sit down at my PC or wherever I am going. He will then start contact calling, which I ignore and around 10 minutes later, go back, open the door and ask for a step-up. If he lifts his foot, he steps up and gets out of the cage. If he doesn't, the door closes and the same scenario takes place again. They do learn and understand actions that are unacceptable like biting, receive instant negative feedback and results of that action. This is how they learn in the wild as well. The parents do not wait 10 minutes before taking action regarding bad behaviour. It is an instant response an the young chick learns quickly.<br><br>Post edited by: danmcq, at: 2009/08/28 16:49

African Grey documentaries are basically non existent, other than a very short one that just documents a trapper catching them and the ugly toll it takes. I watched it once and put it away... There are a couple of very good documentaries of Macaws in the wild and also of the parrots of telegraph hill in San Francisco. You can easily find these videos for sale by doing an Internet search. http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/episodes/the-real-macaw/introduction/2729/ http://video.nationalgeographic.com/video/player/kids/animals-pets-kids/birds-kids/macaw-kids.html http://www.parrotsinternational.org/Videos_1.htm

Congratulations!! Thanks for the update, photos and description of how they are interacting together. :-) It's GreYt to to see you posting again!!

Adoption is the only consideration I have given thought to, for adding another Parrot to our flock. I also only rescue or adopt Dobermans. I will probably never have another puppy, due to the great need for homes of abandoned dogs. However, for the most part, unless a person has previous Parrot experience. I would not recommend adoption of a Parrot with serious issues. Most people do not have the time or patience to deal with problems. Most think is like adopting a dog or cat that will just love you and act like a dog or cat. Parrots are completely different and sometimes the adoptor must live with the fact that the parrot is not going to change into a love muffin. You must adopt with unconditional love and the intent of keeping it and providing it with the best home it could have for the remainder of it's life. This is just my opinion of course. ;-)

I would go with the leg band. It is the least invasive and easiest to put on. It can then be removed once your back home.

I agree with this statement in that article. For the most part, more than 50 percent of Parrot purchasers do not provide a flighted life style with tons of activities to keep their Parrot active and being all the "Avian flier" they should be. The quote is: "“Most people who wish to acquire a parrot as a pet do so for all the wrong reasons. People are looking for another possession, a status symbol, a bird that talks, performs tricks or sings “Yankee Doodle Dandy”. Rather, they should be acting out of the humanitarian desire to help a wild animal, one who never asked or chose to be a pet, one who deserves a dignified life, no strings or expectations attached.”" With this thought in mind. I do feel sorry for my Grey and Conure. I love them so much, that if I knew I had trained them to survive and that they would be accepted in a flock to live a full birds life, find a mate and have babies, I WOULD SET THEM FREE! But, I know that to do so would condemn them to death. So I try hard as I can to ensure they are flighted, spend the least amount of time in the cage as possible, provide them with wholesome good foods, foraging items and lots of stuff to play, chew, hang on and enjoy as they would in the wild.

I'm with Penny. When a Pet of any type is raised by humans from birth, you have just made them a responsibility of humans for life. You certainly can not just set them free and sentence them to death. Also, if the thought is, once they reach maturity they should be turned into a breeder, then be left without human contact, ehich they are used to and expect, would be cruel. They are a part of the human flock!! :-)<br><br>Post edited by: danmcq, at: 2009/08/28 15:10

Welcome elexin!! It's GreYt having you here. Judy gave good advice. The baby has been through a lot considering it's whole world was just turned upside down. Just some time and patience for the baby Grey to settle down and get used to the new home and flock will put things right in order. Looking forward to hearing more and seeing photos when you have a chance. :-)

First, I want to commend you on being so responsible for your Grey the last 2 years and caring enough about her to reach out for help from Grey owners. If I have followed this properly..... Your Grey is in your room. This means it is not where all the other people action and events take place in the home. The only time the Grey see’s someone, is if and when you are in your room or it can hear activities going on and wish it were at least out there in it’s cage so it could watch and feel like a part of the Flock. This is very important for any Parrot, regardless of species and IF at all possible, explain it to your parents and see if the Cage could be moved out to the most active area in your home. With the busy schedule you have had, your Grey has probably not been let out of her cage for days at a time or if it was, it was probably just for maybe an hour maximum. Greys need a lot of attention, interaction and mental challenges along with plenty of physical activities to keep them happy and in good shape mentally and physically. Your Grey has become the way she is, due to the lack of adequate time that any of these are available. To complicate things even more, she is now in what some call the “Terrible Twos”. She is trying to exercise her own will and has a very strong need at this age to become self sufficient, self confident and learn how to interact at a new level with the flock as a fully functional member entering a different status now. This is how they age in the wild and is “Wired” as a part of their normal maturing process. Without having sufficient interaction during the last 2 years to guide her in the ways flock members interact with each other, whats acceptable, whats not, how to act properly, how biting is not acceptable and results in a way that gets the message across it is not good manners etc. Your challenge is now magnified greatly and it’s going to take a lot of time devoted one on one with your Grey. It would really help if your Mom or dad could become involved more, but I understand that may be out of the question. Your Grey needs at last 3 hours out of cage time and at least 1 hour of one on one time with you. The other two hours while out of her cage, she can stay busy playing with toys, chewing wooden toys, throwing balls around or bashing bells hanging from chains on her play stand etc. Unfortunately, She can only communicate with you now by displaying body language, eyes pinning or biting to indicate she does not want to do something, feels nervous and wants you to move or be aware of a perceived danger. With the attitude you are showing in your posts of committing the time and effort to get her on track and happy as a member of your Flock that you plan on keeping for life. I believe you can do it. I also believe that your completely capable of explaining all this to your parents in a way that they will “Get It” and help by pitching in and hopefully let you move her and the cage out to the “Action” area. There are many threads here on Biting and behavior with tons of help and ideas you can read to assist you in getting through this. Of course, we are all more than happy to answer all the questions you have as well. :-)

As long as no blood feathers are broken and bleeding, your TAG will be fine and straighten out those remaining feathers. Those types of injuries are always scary the first time. :-)