Jayd

Heed Dan's words......

Sorry, I haven't been able to figure that out or how to bring up "by author".......

Penny, so sorry. To start the ball rolling, I would suggest the alarms closest to your animals, then move outward........Jay and Maggie, [calm down, candle and wine, remember? Maggie]

This thread was good, it was about pumpkins, learning opinions, concerns what more could a person ask for? There was no flaming only. I'm sorry you feel this way but I feel the same as you,"Why Post"? But don't stop Aerial, what your intent was has reached a lot of members, so give them some-more recipes....

A friend reminded me, thank God for friends, always check for article dates or expiration. The Aloe plant is a interesting subject and definitely holds a place in our parrots lives.....

Thank God for opinions, note: you wrote, "If no one ever tested the boundaries, domestic parrots would routinely have their wings clipped," Please note, parrots will not be domesticated for at least 200,000 more years. On a side note, You can make Smash out of pumpkin, remember nutmeg is bad for our parrots, cinnamon is greyt....

I'd like to say something and use Birdhouse's reply as an example; this is NOT against Birdhouse or anyone else, please. I've noticed that many people make a similar statement to what has been stated above. This is very upsetting to me...To any statement such as I've been giving it to them for a while...what is awhile? A week, month, ten years, 20 years? There's very few parrots that have been on the forum for a long enough time to make an accurate decision about a lot of things..what will happen in time even to a parrot who has been fed good food? Remember, the study of many things related to our parrots are far and few between. So, this statement, "I've been doing it a (blank) amount of time" is not indicative of what could happen. To my other point, "I will continue to watch and see what happens", I would like to give a couple of examples: In another thread, Talon made a reference to an owner who had been told it was okay to feed the parrot garlic and the parrot died. To a personal experience that I had, (this is only an comparative example because parrots don't build model airplanes), It was not too long ago found out that the human system has a tolerance level for epoxy cement which was totally unheard of with model builders and varies from person to person. This would relate to a food item or chemical to a bird's system. A close friend of mine, who had been an avid model builder had been building models using epoxy and had a reaction to epoxy which hospitalized him in very serious condition. The doctor said he had reached his tolerance level. I had been building models and using epoxy but had with no ill effect (that I know of). This analogy holds true for parrots as well as other animals. We don't know whether or when the items we feed our birds today might reach a tolerance limit in their systems that will harm or kill them. In regards to "watching our parrots to make sure nothing changes", do we do this until they become ill or heaven forbid even die, Instead of just refraining from giving them something that is known to possibly cause problems? There are so many good food items available to us that we don't have to feed our parrots apple seeds or spaghetti sauce just because and I don't want to spend my time watching and waiting for reactions to something I gave my parrot. SOOO, on with the pumpkins and tis the season, is almost here...Thanks, Jayd

Tango the 'Too likes leg bones and toe bones also, mine......

Joe, will land on a shelve while Spock would land full seed, talons extended just below your shoulder with a thud while Salsa lands at the back of your head and slides to your forehead with forward momentum, leaving red tracks, and they all take-off immediately to continue their land of the lost antics..lol

You should hear 2 Cags and a Zon do it at the same time while all flying fast at head level in a mobile!!! LOL

Please remember, landofvos is a holistic site. and Dave truly is a expert on Aloe Vera....This is fact not opinion... To really know what is 99% safe or unsafe is to visit a known and reputable site that is and has been well established, not a holistic or "I Think" type of site. When they add a item that has been established as safe, go for it, why temp fate just to use something some else doesn't use.

Please remember, landofvos is a Holistic site. It's reputable, but please research and question if you feel uncomfortable. They recommend onions and garlic, untill there is more proof, we don't...There are around 400 species of the Aloe Vera plant, all aren't safe. Our Mr Dave is truly a expert of this subject..Here's a couple of his references. http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?189248-The-other-aloe-vera-gel http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?189967-100-natural-aloe-vera-juice

Go to the bottom right corner of the Forum page,[any page] and click "Archive" There listed oldest to newest........

Your doing what you think is bet, that's what counts... My opinion, if I may is to treat your baby as a clipped wing parrot, [a young one un fledged] Put a couple of perches close to the bottom of the cage, put a soft washable towel on the bottom of the cage, one that won't snag toenails, make sure there is nothing under a perch so if your baby fell he wouldn't fall on another perch and break something. Put a food/water bowl at each perch for ease of access. As time goes one you can add bongs more perch's etc. Treat your baby as much as normal as you can, remember, a Grey needs not only physical but equal amounts of mental stimulation....Thanks Jayd

Thank you and Amen.........

The warmth,the love, and the memories you bring to us, Bless you. Jay This goes to show how rewarding, how heartwarming and how fulfilling having a re-home, rescue or problem bird can be. But it takes a special person like you to have the willingness and the patience to overcome all obstacles. Thanks Talon for your wonderful story! Maggie

ariisamis... As I said earlier, only you can decide what is best for you. You asked a question, and you received reply's, some were harsh some weren't, but please accept them for what they were, reply's to a sensitive question. In my case I would take the bird or 3leg dog no questions asked, I have, some might remember we payed $600. for a macaw with no wing..... yet I wouldn't feel bad if someone else refused it as you've stated, This doesn't make you or anyone else bad or wrong. With that said, please take into account that even a healthy parrot is a expenses, yearly well checks, illness, a bird with wings splitting their breast while learning to fly, etc. This bird is going to grow up the same as any bird with clipped wings, you just won't have the chance to let them grow back....Any parrot can and will crash learning to fly, any bird while learning to fly can split there breast, as far as your nice cage goes, it's perfect for yo baby, why not. You need to talk to a different vet. I'm sad to hear the word "Money" being used so much, I'll end this with another post... Thanks Jayd A Parrots Bill of Rights - I was supplied a copy of this when i got Alfie & Freddie & think it is very appropriate to have it posted here on the forum for all grey owners & anyone considering getting a grey. by Stewart A. Metz, M.D. 1.GET TO KNOW ABOUT PARROTS BEFORE YOU BRING ME HOME - I am not a domesticated pet like a dog or cat. I still have the spirit of the jungle in me. I have special needs which you may find it hard to fill. Please don't learn these too late for my well-being. And please don't acquire one of my cousins wild from the jungle—it will jeopardize his survival and well-being, and that won't be a party for you either! 2.GIVE ME THE LARGEST HOME POSSIBLE - I am used to flying through rainforests or savannas. I have given up this great gift for your pleasure. At the very least, give me enough room to flap my wings and exercise. And I need toys for my amusement and wood to chew—otherwise, I might confuse your Home with the forest and its trees. 3.GIVE ME A NUTRITIOUS DIET - I need a wide variety of fresh and nutritious foods, even if they take time to prepare. I cannot survive on seeds alone. Take time to learn what my needs, and preferences, are. 4.LET ME HAVE A 'SOCIAL LIFE' - I am a gregarious flock animal—but I am not one of you. I need lots of socialization to learn how to act with you, and with my siblings. I also need to have adequate quality time with you every day—no matter what your schedule or other needs are. I am a living,feeling creature. Above all, I need to be able to have complete trust in you, and count on your predictability in looking after me—every day. 5.LET ME BE CLEAN - I may like to drop food or even throw it, but I need meticulous cleanliness to be healthy. My skin itches without frequent showers, the barbs of my feathers won't seal if they become oily and, worst of all, I may become ill if my food or water is not always sanitary. 6.I NEED MY OWN DOCTOR - You may not understand my physiology and therefore you may not recognize it early on when I get sick. And it may be too late when you do, because I hide my illnesses (remember what I said about my being an animal of the jungle, where there are lots of predators). And I need an avian vet—a specialist (no HMOs for me please). If you can't afford one, perhaps you shouldn't have taken me home. 7.PLEASE DON'T PUNISH ME - Just as I don't always understand your peculiarities, you may not understand mine. I don't TRY to get in trouble—remember, a house is not the jungle. If I do screw up, don't yell at me and never hit me. I have sensitive ears and I may never trust you again if you strike me. Hands are sometimes scary things to us (why in the world would you not be zygodactylous like us?). Even more importantly, we don't learn by punishment. We are gentle creatures who only strike back to protect ourselves; we learn through patience and love. 8.SPEAK MY " LANGUAGE" - I know you get upset with me when I knock over my water bowl, throw food, scream or pluck my feathers. I don't do these to annoy you—I am probably trying to tell you something ( perhaps that I am hurting, lonely , or sad.). Learn to speak MY (body) language. Remember that I , alone of all creatures on this planet, learn to speak yours! 9.SEE ME AS AN INDIVIDUAL - I am a unique and feeling being.. No two of us are alike. Please don't be disappointed in me if I don't talk like you wanted, or can't do the tricks that your friend's parrot can do. But if you pay close attention to me (and I always empathize with you, whether you know it or not), I will show you a unique being who will give you so much more than talking and playing.. Give me a chance to show you who I am; I think you'll find the effort worth it. And remember—I am not an ornament;. I do not enhance ANY living room décor. And I am not a status symbol—if you use me as such, I might nip at your up-turned nose! 10.SHARE YOUR LOVE WITH ME - Above all, please remember that you are my Special Person. I put all my trust and faith in you.. We parrots are used to being monogamous.(no bar-hopping for us!).So please don't go away for long periods or give me away—that would be a sadness from which I may never recover. If that seems to be asking a lot, remember—you could have learned about my needs before bringing me home. Even having a baby or taking a new job isn't a fair reason—you made a commitment to me FIRST. And if you think that you must leave me because you might die, provide for me forever after you leave. I may live to a ripe old age but I can't provide for myself. Remember I'm in a small cage amongst people who are not of my blood. 11.YOUR RIGHTS - You have lots of rights, but I can only assure one. And that is, if you treat me the way I described above, I will reward you with unwavering love, humor, knowledge, beauty, dedication-- and a sense of wonder and awe you haven't felt since you were a child. When you took me home, you became my Flock Leader, indeed, my entire universe –for life. I would hang the moon and stars for you if I could. We are one in Heart and Soul

Okay! I call Salsa Sausage in jest sometimes...so yesterday, when Salsa started singing her Okay song, she starting singing Sausage is a good girl...I am going to shut my mouth. :rolleyes: Jay

Hi,as most of you know our belief for things that might be bad or are bad or could be bad is no, never, nada, except for a few exceptions. I found this post from the early Grey Forums that is very informative...Enjoy....Jayd Lidia, guest, 06/26/07 Coffee Ans, Caffeine is a big no-no for parrots. Fruit teas, like rooibos are fine. Stick with the caffeine-free stuff. As to milk: raw and even pasteurised milk should not be offered because it contains coliform bacteria. Furthermore, many caged birds are sensitive to milk sugar, which is present in milk but not in cultured milk, so you can give small amounts of yoghurt or cheese quite safely. "Chocolate contains a substance called theobromine. Caffeine & theobromine belong to a chemical class of alkaloids called methylated xanthines. These are found in coals, coffee, tea & in chocolate. As a class of drugs, Methylated xanthines cause central nervous system (CNS) stimulation, diuresis (flushing of fluids through the body), cardiac (heart) muscle stimulation, & smooth muscle stimulation. Methylxanthines are absorbed very quickly & easily from the oral cavity & intestinal tract. The liver is needed to metabolize these chemicals, & the waste products are excreted in the urine. These chemicals primarily affect the CNS & kidneys. These chemicals cause increased motor activity & also result in tachycardia (too fast a heart beat.) Because of the increased motor activity, seizures may occur. The kidneys may be affected causing diuresis & very high urine output. This may lead to dehydration. Respirations may become too rapid, & hyperthermia (too high a body temperature) may occur, resulting in death. There is NO antidote for these drugs. We may only treat symptoms with supportive care & drugs to decrease their severity. Toxic dosages for birds are not well established. In dogs the toxic dose is approximately 200 mg/kg of body weight. In cats the lethal dosage is only 80 to 150 mg/kg of body weight. (higer metabolism means that less is needed to cause toxic effects.) A cup of coffee may contain 35 to 85 mg. A 12 ounce bottle of cola contains approx 50 mg. Now these levels would mean that a 1 kg (2.2kg) cat would need to drink1 1/2 to 3 colas for death to occur. However, since a bird has a much higher metablolism than a cat, & a much smaller body size than a cat, we can safely say that it would take a much smaller dose for toxic effects & possibly death to occur. Since we are unsure of the toxic dosages in birds, one definitely should avoid ALL caffeine & chocolate consumption for pet birds. (theobromeine & caffeine are both found in chocolate-- this means that chocolate packs a double whammy!) I reccommend that these substances be avoided in ALL pet species." ( http://www.multiscope.com/hotspot/caffeine.htm)

Thank you for the post, the info was nice. Sorry you miss read mine, I was referring to my references, not the ones you posted. As I said earlier, we each have our own beliefs. Sir, I'll stand on my on laurels as you will yours....Thanks Jayd

Avianweb.com is one of my favorite sites. Incubation of eggs is a required subject of study for any breeder and is a must know concerning deformities. There's a number of booked learned people in the parrot world, but in Dave's case and mine,[and others] it's the practical experience that makes the difference. I chose not to add references due to the fact there was none directly addressing parrots, leaving the researching to our creative members, gene study is huge. Thank you for the debate. Jays;)

Our hearts with you...Jayd and Maggie

Thank you Dan and Dave, I agree Dave has far more experience than I do at breeding Greys, at the same token I have considerable experience at breeding and raising many assorted species of parrots. I also have worked with many vets and avian specialist in my decades with parrots. It's okay for us to disagree, but there's many experts on this forum. Bless Dave and you for supporting him, and him you. I've always backed down from standing up for myself out of respect for Dave and you, but times have changed, the members have a right to question those that disagree with them. My opinions stand...I respect yours, you don't have to respect mine. To sum this up, I say genetics plays a big roll, You and Dave say it doesn't... Sincerely Jayd

Thank you Dan. My question is about a bone that didn't form, not a deformity or foot splay. I stated I could be wrong at the start about the foot splay and asked Dave to correct me. A totally missing bone or eye is not a deformity, if they're not there, there's nothing to deform. By not forming, it is a genetic issue. There's much info on the net about human genetic birth defects, few on birds. My apologies for the human links, I have removed them. I'm sorry, but I stick by my opinion concerning genetic issues concerning some birth defects because there's too much on the net in agreement. Thanks Jayd

Thank you Dave, sorry you misunderstood the way I used Diabetes as a example of genetics, there's many other medical conditions I could have chosen. Thank you for you analogy of Diabetes, some of which is correct some of which isn't. I don't know where you came up with Quote:Anyway, this isn't the place to be discussing your human health issues such as your diabetes. unquote. I'm sorry you felt you had to make this a personal issue...Now to the Question, "A missing or underdeveloped bone is due to genetic of the animal." A missing wing bone, or eye etc is a genetic defect. That's all I asked. Jayd