danmcq

Oh no, Vree will always be remembered here. You did everything possible for him and I have no doubt he knew he was deeply loved. Remembering him as you describe, is the right path. You have my consolences and well wishes.

You should have gone the less painful path of valium and a few shots. Congratulations! I am looking forward to the story.

Look at all those pins!!!! I would certainly think the implants are working as well. I hope and pray this is the end of the uphill battle you have been waging against this plucking issue. GreYt job at showing so much love and tenacity on this!!!

Yes, once a parrot reaches maturity, it will have increased hormones during the natural breeding seasons at varying levels from parrot to parrot the rest of their lives.

He was just excited to get out of his cage. He was still learning flight and would have quickly learned how to exit without hitting his wings on the cage opening. He is quite because he just had his wings lopped and now cannot do what his instinct if telling him to..... fledge, fly, learn flight skills, coordination and make connections in those all important brain synapses in the frontal lobes that would have made him the avian wonder he was intended to be.

Cute video. I must say, seeing a very young child pick him up rather concerned me. Children just do not understand how delicate a bird is, much less an infant just weeks old. At his gae, play is not something they do. They are too wobbly, still figuring out how to just stand and walk, the world around them etc. Having foot toys around is a great idea, but I am uncertain of what you mean by play. Thanks for the update, I always enjoy watching the rapid growth.

I suspect they each remember you both and are happy to see you. Remember they are flock members and all flock members are recognized and welcomed with happy open wings. My grey and conure both are like two children dancing around and just can't wait to get up close and personal with flock members that drop by from time to time they have known most their lives.

I have the same difficulty. I watch Dayo's eye's constantly when interacting with him. I also see his entire body, when playing, feeding or perhaps sitting across the room from him. It became apparent to me, that I must be brain damaged in the sense of NOT being able to tell much from the eyes, other than he is restricting the amount of light into his eye for a reason. I have read tons of scientific studies on the avian eye function and just general observances from from parrot owners, behaviorists etc. The "Parrot Community" in my estimation, just mimics what it has held as a long time belief. The scientists stick to the data they obtain through zillions of tests and study over decades. Much like the mimicking of "You must clip a parrots wings". With that said, I simply look at Dayo as a "Whole". Sometimes I can read his entire body language and know if "We" are ok or not. Many times, he fools me. I believe he gets a big laugh out of it or perhaps a feeling of accomplishment in pulling off another bait and switch on me. Thats ok, I feel the same good feeling when I do the same to him. :-) The people that attended "John Blockheads bird behavior course" and are all of a sudden now a paper certified parrot behavior consultant wanting to charge lots of money to come and tell you in an hour session whats wrong with your parrot or you, is worth about as much as the certificate you describe.....in my opinion. I have learned through trial and error, to ask as you already mentioned and do so with true respect, calm emotions and truthfulness that if he clearly shows his answer is no, I just respect his wish and leave him alone. It has become very rare, when I must just force what I want do to some compelling reason. Just as the "Because I said so" didn't make our children growing up feel warm and fuzzy with what we forced them to do, our parrots do not have the warm fuzzy feeling either in those times. I hope this turns into a very long thread with plenty of good comments here. Thanks Shanlung!

Self explanatory.

Some Valium and a few shots may help before going to retrieve Jakob. I am looking forward to the update on this.

Judy is spot on. The sooner the better. Our Grey was taken for car rides in a carrier from 14 weeks onward. Socialization and new people, dogs, other parrots began at the breeders from 6 weeks old onward.

Great photos, thanks for sharing them.

Plucking is such an illusive behavior to discover what truly has triggered it. The avian medical community is fairly baffled as well, but certainly try their best in helping one treat it. It sound like you are doing all the right things for Dorian. Please keep updating on how this goes.

Very Cute video Janet. I am sure glad no fish were harmed in the production of this video. Thanks for sharing this.

Shanlung - I love this thread! I hope it contnues for a long time as a true discussion of behaviors we see, what they may mean, what may have triggered it or if... possibly just if, they are playing a game that includes a bite for example. The key is to recognise what they mean and are doing for what purpose. I bring this up, because when I play catch with Dayo, I have for the last 3 years always made a Wooooooo sound when I toss it back and just in general play or when he would slip, he will even say WOOOooo when he slips sometimes. I went into a little backfground on this so all will understand why I am saying what I'm abot to put out there for commenting on. Dayo will bite, as you say, if I do not respect his body langauge or space when it is obvious he does not wish to be bothered. However, there are times for example, he will be sitting and preening on my lap, put his head down and be watching with his eyes kind of tilted up in a micro fashion (I know they cannot truly move their eyes like we can, but they can ever so slightly if you study them). So if I'm feeling brave, sometimes, well most times, I will go for it, hoping it is one of those times he will actually let me give him scratches for a very short 10 or 20 seconds. Around 70 percent of the time, he will flip his head around grab my finger somewhere hard, then go WOOoooooo. To me, this is like a game to him to see if I'm stupid enough to try once again OR he thinks I like this game and will play it with the CHANCE he might just let me scratch him. Kinda like russian roulette. I agree 100 percent with you, that they do not bite out of just meaness or viciousness. They did it because we did not respect thier space or body language at the time.

Oh my god, thats sure brings back memories, now I want another, but I fear it would grow like my present grey. He or She certainly looks healthy and is just adorable. I look forward to following the updates. They grow so fast you can just about see the changes daily.

Awwwww, I love Emma, she is just such a sweetheart.

Jan that is wonderful game they love to play. Many know peek-a-boo as well and love to play it. You can do this using a towel or similar item to play this game just like you do with you child. I play with cloth items, but also by running to a side of the refridgerator for example pop my head up and say peek-a-boo. Dayo will fly over and come running, then I'll run around a wall, stick my head out and say it again. He will reciprocate by running away out of view or under a cabinet and wait, I'll walk over slowly see him and say it. Then he dances around, flies to somewhere else and i follow. I also play catch with soft items like a small cat cloth ball or the like, Dayo will grab it then I throw it to him and then he will toss it back or down to watch me pick it up. He also likes to play with an acrylic ball with bell in it this is about 2 inches in diameter. I'll roll it to him, he'll attack it many times, bash it around then fling it back to me or to the floor. Hopefully these things give you some ideas what what he may be used to and like. Just start out slow with not too much speed or excitement unless you see him getting excited and acknowledging something he is interested in.

We'll let the Parrots answer: Eclectus: Change a lightbulb? Leave me alone, I'm busy foraging. On second thought, will I get a treat for it? African Grey: I'm way over qualified for that job and I'm busy inventing a new lighting source but I guess I could at least supervise the stupid Amazon in the next cage. Parrotlet: Who's scared of the dark? I'm not scared of anything. But to answer your question, just one if it's a parrotlet, I can do anything. Hey, who called me short stuff! DY Amazon: Let that arrogant African Grey over there do it if he's so darn smart! Quaker: Can I rearrange the furniture and the light fixtures first? Don't you people know anything about interior design? Caique: And why would I want to do that? Lightbulbs look like they would be much more fun to tumble with. Umbrella Cockatoo: Duh, it only takes one Umbie to change a lightbulb, don't you know we are mechanically inclined? We can do anything but you gotta watch me, come on now, watch me, watch me. Cockatiel: I'll do it but only if I can whistle while I work. Rose Breasted Cockatoo: Let that big brute macaw do it! I'll be so glad when the light's are back on and everyone can clearly see how pretty I am. Macaw: Darn, I don't know my own strength. Do you have another one?

I did not address one thing that Dayo also did that you Steve and Chelsea brought up in regards the shoulder. I am just saying what we experienced as Dayo grew from baby, to crawling, to walking to running ( Human comparatives ) to flying to learning how much he could control his environment during the last 3 formative years. He has been a shoulder bird since 12 weeks old. As any bird, if he became alarmed by someone or something, he would press against the side of the head and sometimes give a pressure bite, not painful but an indicator you should move or beware that he was uncomfortable. He would and still will do this in these cases and also if you are ignoring him for a long period of time like on the computer for an hour or two. He then progressed at about 6 months old to inflicting a somewhat painful pinch to the ear, this was dealt with by a "No Bite", pushing sideways with the head at the same time. If he pinched again, he was shooed off the shoulder while saying "No Bite", not angrily, but as a stern voice. When flying and shoulder landing started, the rules changed especially if we knew he was worked up. If he was excited over something, when he landed on the shoulder he was always facing a turned head so the ear was not available. If he started getting frisky, he was shooed off. This took consistancy, awareness of his mood and even feeling the pressure of his talons on the shoulder indicating if he was leaning in quickly, settled and not moving etc. This took a while to learn, but it tells tons when you can't see and you can quickly turn the head away in response. He is still a shoulder bird and has gotten to where we do not worry about him at all. But, we NEVER let our gaurd down because you just never know. I agree with Dave's and others comments regarding not allowing your bird on your shoulder if they display the behaviors I have talked about Dayo exhibiting. The only reason we continued to do so, was we felt it was manageable wit a very tiny itty bit chance we might have gotten a face or eye bite. It never happened, could at anytime with a shoulder bird even if they have been there for 10 years, but we take that risk. Any continuing to let a bird on their shoulder after displaying the above behaviors should only do so with a lot of thought, proven good responses from your bird and not being surprised, maddened or blame the bird if it ever does occur. It is your choice, chose wisely and responsibly.

Hi Steve (SIC), You asked how do I deal with the list of 5 things. Here you go: 1. Not paying enough attention to him, when HE thought you should be. What I do: Pay attention!!! 2. Taking something away from him that was taboo, yet his cherished treasure he just stole. What I do: I get the taboo item without taking a bite, which requires patience, timing and speed as Dayo does one of the best football shuffles, item moving from talon to beak and back to try and bite, fly somewhere with me slowly following so as not to add any drama, grab the item from his beak at just the right time, then prepare to duck, weave, watch for the fly around 180 to the back, and duck, weave and shoo away with my arms. I have become a ninja skill level in these moves executed so fast, they must be slowed to observe by the naked eye. 3. Trying to remove him from something like a smoke detector he just flew to and wanted to disassemble it. What I do: I get "The stick" (perch) he flies away knowing resistance is futile, then I prepare for ninja moves once again as the inevitable flying attack will be "On". 4. Basically anything he "Thought" was a reason to let you know he was not accepting what you are doing or just did. What I do: Depending on if this is going to be an event that MAY cause a footed or flighted attack, I watch appropriately for body language indicating what is going to be the method of attack (If any), I try change my position, in his view, by a diversion such as a treat, verbal "Good Boy" or other such positive way to interrupt his present concern and stop it before it happens. If that does not work, I go into ninja mode once again as I know it's coming. 5. Play flying and screaming like a pterodactyl, then out of no where decides it would be great fun to land in the middle of your back and pinch the middle back of your neck, then fly away before you could even react. What I do: Try to become a wall flower, stay the hell out of the way, never lose sight of where he is and which direction he is going, prepare for ninja mode if necessary. I must say though, these behaviors are almost nonexistent now. But, they do occur every once in a blue moon, so I never relax and think that he now has gotten with MY human program and will never revert back to that still wild instinct to to take care of business the "Grey Way" born out of African where it is just part of daily life in survival mode. Wait, I here drums beating and battle cries ........

Unfortunately, no such small and lightweight GPS device exists. Welome to our forum by the way!

LOL!!!!! @ Originally Posted by Dave007 Will Elvenking get nipped at in the future? Probably, but I guarantee you that he'll be much more aware of what the bird is doing now that he knows there was nothing personal on the bird's part that caused an attack. If he doesn't try to be more aware, I'll kick his ass."" Forget any little bites from Issac, worry about Dave and his response if his instructions are not followed. :p Sorry Dave - I couldn't help it.

Welcome Cass and flock!!! Looking forward to hearing more from you!

Welcome Wendi, fmaily, flock, pack and aquatics!!! It's greyt having you here and congratulations on finding a grey as a new child. Looking forward to hearing more from you.