danmcq

LOL - At that age, they don't care what you do. It is wonderful you are doing this while bird sitting for your friend. Hopefully he will apply and continue all the great things you have done while watching him. Thanks for sharing all these wonderful photos. They sure bring back many touching memories.

No comments on those days from me....... :confused::cool::cool::cool:

Excellent series of articles Dave and very well written. Thank You!!!!

Thats possible, I made that mistake as well the first few times I harnessed up Dayo, for the same reason of fearing over-tightening.

Wow! You have done very well in helping build her confidence by using her strong desire and your adjusting the distance and arm position to give her hgih levels of success in her first attempts at flight. I guarantee you that as her muscles build and careful flight control adjustments are learned by her. She will surprise you with how well she will be able to fly, even with the limited number of present primaries intact. Our Grey Dayo, went through the same process as his clipped primaries slowly molted out one by one over a year and a half period. Whats funny to watch as they gain flight abilities, is when one day they gain more altitude than previously and you see them looking up thinking to themselves "Uh Oh, the ceiling is coming closer and closer" as they try to figure out the correct amount of flap reduction to stop the gain in altitude. Thanks for sharing this!

LOL!!!! Thanks for the morning laugh!

What an exciting adventure for Loki. The harness may be a little too big for her, not certain. Normally the harness buckles are made in such a way, that once you cinch them to where you want, they do not move. Perhaps there is a defect? Thanks for sharing this first outing.

A note of caution on a non-flighted bird and children as guests. I speak from experience with 7 grandchildren ranging from the age of 6 months to 19 years old. Children and teens always get excited and do not pay attention to their surroundings, much less a 12 inch tall bird that is standing right next to their feet trying to start chewing on the shoe or looking up at them. They will accidently step on the bird or punt it across the room as they begin to move somewhere. Personally, if I have more than 2 kids at my house, I am either there watching at all times or I cage my grey. This is with him being flighted! I do not worry about doors opening or closing, as everyone that visits my house has been made VERY AWARE of the fact that they back out of doors, they do not just open the door and walk out. If guests are over that do not know this, my birds are caged. I just wanted to ensure that no one gets a false since of security due to their birds being clipped. A flightless bird has dangers they encounter as well and they have no way of fleeing safely or quickly. I do want to make clear, I am not judging anyone for their personal decisions. This is intended only to help make them aware of dangers to their bird.

Cute photos, thanks for sharing them.

Congratulations! Everything you describe is normal Grey behavior. The flock is their world, security, survival and they die if seperated. Thus the constant wanting to be with the flock at all times. They also always have a favorite. You have been chosen for now. The others just need to know and acknowledge this. They need to be patient and only interact with this new baby Tali as she indicates by body language if she desires it or not. Most babies as young as yours will walk over and explore people and things on their own if you are patient and wait. Let the baby do this on her own timing and desire. Anyone tirying to force baby tali to love and interact with them, could end up making her fear and hate them very quickly. Just be patient, loving and slow with the interactions and this will show her the human home and world she lives in is not a fearful place, instead it is a discovery zone.

It is a great read and a very personal glimpse in to there lives together. I reccommend as well for any parrot owner.

What a story about Spock and the avian zoo you have going on there. Never a dull moment! It's great to hear spock is getting better and putting his subjects back in line. Loved the photos!

:eek::eek::eek::eek: :p:p:p;););) Jesus, just read the intro, then followed the thread tot he good news. Talk about a 2 second roller-coaster. Thank God you got him back!!

What a beautiful baby Grey! Welcome and thanks for posting these photos.

Loki is beautiful! Thanks for posting these.

Keywe: I personally do not like the term used against those whom have chosen to clip "Being Selfish" or for "Convenience". I believe those who do clip (Such as You) consulted those you consider the "experts" on Avian care you had to consult with at the time. I have no doubt they have both the owners and the birds best interests in mind when they advise on clipping. One thought on clipping. It became the "Defacto Standard" many decades ago for Parrot breeders, Pet shops and those whom purchased and took those parrots home. Thus, you would see beautiful Macaws and other Parrots sitting in a pet shop on a stand for all to poke at and muse over. It was all based on not wanting you to lose your much loved bird and also due to the thought of an owner not being cautious enough to "Bird Safe" there home for a flighted family member. Thus the safest solution, clip your bird. Avian medicine and understanding of Parrots and their well being has advanced greatly over the last 10 years or so. They now recognize the birds brain is made for visual acuity and fast image processing due to the large frontal lobes being primarily used for vision and flying calculations as they dart through trees and other obstacles at 30+ miles per hour. They can swoop, turn and navigate through without a scratch. A Human would be "George of the Jungle" smacking into to everything in their path at those speeds because we are not "Wired" that way. Also, due to the bodily needs for high levels of oxygen while beating those wings with heart pound and blood racing through to feed the muscles. They have MANY air sacks in addition to the lungs to ensure a "Turbo Charged, Ram Air System" to keep them going on and on and on with oxygen to spare. The scientists and Avian Specialists have determined those early formative weeks of fledging and learning to fly are highly important not only to the physical development, but also to the mental and coordination development of all our avian friends. The other thing they have found, is due to the intelligence of our birds, they quickly learn what a window, mirror, bad perching spot and good perching spot are, just as they do in nature, minus the windows and mirrors. They are more confident, coordinated and mentally functioning than a clipped bird. They are also less likely to ever start plucking or developing heart or arterial disease than a clipped comparatively sedentary bird. I would ask all who are on the fence of whether to clip or not, to please research all the resources available on clipped versus non-clipped by medical and scientific professionals. Please to not rely on people or websites just regurgitating what they "Believed" for the last 3 decades or heard from a friend or friend of a friend. Just remember, your birds enjoyment of it's life is determined by your choices to either leave your bird as created, with the natural instinct and desire to travel by flight so it can soar to safety, fly around screaming like a pterodactyl in glee and banking like an indy 500 car or scramble about on the floor completely reliant upon you for safe transportation to the next room. All I ask, is to embrace what science has found, then and only then make your decision.

Welcome Lauren and Flock!! It's always good to hear of someone taking in a grey in need of a loving home. Looking forward hearing hearing more about you and greystone. We love photos and videos as well. So when you have some, post them.

OK, I have to admit, I had a few moments during the 18th month through most of the two's, that at times I felt like clipping to stop some behaviors as mentioned by others, but didn't. Through the help of Dave and others, I learned to deal with playful and outright attacks by simply shooing him away with my arms when I saw him coming at me. So did my wife and other visitors I instructed to do so IF they saw him coming. I must say though, Dayo was never actually hit, he would turn quickly or fly over. After remaining consistant at this for at least 2 months, he stopped doing it unless I pissed him off by taking somthing away he could not have. That has stopped as well.... for the last few months. It's just a matter of learning how to deal with it from others that have been there and done that successfully.

The new photos of Loki are beautiful. She is really looking good. I woul dlike to borrow Loki when you get a chance to teach my Dobermans not to mess with a Grey. Thanks for the update!

To All, Please realize that Dave has decades or experience in breeding and rescuing. During this time, he has probably answered well over a 100,000 questions and responded. I suspect his questioning somethings sometimes is a normal thing to do, because when an unexperienced parrot owner asks a question, it probably raises a 1000 in Daves mind and he wants to make sure that perhaps there is not an underlying problem and also that he gets all the information neccesary to properly answer all facets of the question. I can tell you, when the rest of us are stumped, missed something or got it wrong, Dave always comes through. We each have different personalities and writing styles. I am guilty myself of just banging out a quick answer on the keyboard and not paying attention to how it may sound or come across. I believe we all have those times. Unfortunately, we cannot not see the persons face or hear their tonal flucuations in their voice to temper the tone and true way something is said. I cannot count the times I have offended someone by shooting off an email. Of course once I was advised of the person being miffed, I explained my intent and all was well. If Dave was really angry or just being gruff, I can tell you his writing style is very aggressive and you would know with out a doubt he was correcting or reviling you. His post reads normal to me for Dave and is just in the "Matter of Fact" way he writes and asks questions when neccesary. Reading the post that started this thread, I too thought perhaps the petstore had sent home a baby that had a possible health issue they were concerned about. I believe Dave saw that right off the bat as well and thus the questions and comments. We have had some sad times here with owners excitedly bringing home their new baby grey and have it die in a few weeks or month later. Talk about heartache and pain. Then add on top of that the breeder or petshop owner then claiming it must have been something the new owner had done and not refunding the money just adds insult to injury. Thus, my summation of what I suspect Dave was thinking. His post was 100 percent spot on, as they always are. It is good to hear that the petshop is a good one and just wanting to make sure the baby is flourishing and probably also to see if the new owners have any questions they need answered, I wish all petshops were that way! Most aren't. Anyway, I hope this helps some of you understand why Dave may come across as some think he does here.

The earlier you start socilaizing them by having people over frequently, the better. Being isolated 99 prcent of the time to just the owner, makes the occasional visitor a non-flock member, therefore not trusted at all. As I'm sure you know, Greys are more phobic and leery than other Parrot species. This does not get better with age, it becomes more pronounced each month and year until they reach full maturity. I know you state you don't have many people close, but I would certainly start inviting them over as often as possible to begin the socialization process. However, keep any up close and personal contact away and let your grey do the closing of the gap as he chooses to. Anyone one getting in his "Space" is considered a threat at this time.

Sorry to hear about the clip. As Jane said, what's done is done. Boy do I remember the terrible two's. Actually, my grey started getting frisky like a typical out of control human teenager when he was about 18 months old. Everything was a struggle and testing of what was ok, what could he get away with and for how long. I suppose he had to learn IF the resulting ignorance, stop in play or possibly a short time out in the cage was worth his actions and how much he enjoyed them. At any rate, if your grey is going through the terrible two's. The shock of the clip will pass and the attitude will remain. I suspect since he will not be able to fly away as well, biting, or trying to, will start becoming a more common reaction. I suspect your grey is both shocked at the apparent attack by his loved and trusted one, as well as depressed. It will pass and the closeness may change a little. That's really an unknown as every grey reacts differenty to each circumstance. I do hope you stay around and leverage the knowledge you'll find here on this forum to help you through the next coming weeks and months.

Very entertaining video's of this cutey. I thought all you "Zon" owners would enjoy this. I don't know what it is about Zon's and singing, but they are they kings of singing Parrots.

It's wonderful that you and your wife have taken such good care of your friends baby grey. As others said, perhaps you can diplomatically explain the ease and importance of cleaning of the formula after feedings. The photos and especially the videos were great! I loved the way Cocoa was so gentle and cautious of the erratic movements and behaviors of that baby. He was trying so hard to get some type of communication going using all his best body language. The foot-up was especially cute.

Each Grey is different. The good thing with your scenario, is you can go and visit more often. This will get Pepsi very familiar with you and vice-versa. You will both reach whatever level of relationship it is that will establish itself. If you are able to interact with Pepsi outside of the cage while with the owners, that's better even still. You will also get all the normal routine information during this time and when the day comes you are taking care of her, you'll know what Pepsi expects. You'll also know if she is hard to get back in the cage during waking hours and bedtime. The important thing is, Pepsi will have someone she knows with her and interacting with, even if it's with her in the cage. Our Grey is difficult to get back in the cage during waking hours and sometimes at bedtime for us. He is flighted, so that makes him able to elude us if he wishes. Due to this, when those times arise that we cannot take Dayo with us and our family comes over to take care of him, he must remain caged. The one time they decided to let him out over a year ago turned into a bad time for both Dayo and our family. They had to towel him which is no fun for either party and stressful as well. Our Grey just chats away with them and so all have big laughs and enjoyment of each others company when the pet sitting is needed while Dayo is caged. You will know if you can safely and confidently let Pepsi out long before the pet sitting begins.