CeasarsDad

Joe.. No.. I wasn't saying that you had the lack of sales.. It was the other poster.. Sorry if you mistook my meaning here...

Hi Joe.. It's just that some people are very passionate in how they think.. It's not a bad thing.. It's just that most often people that think like "machines" have ZERO people skills.. There are certain personality types in people.. Clearly I am the exact opposite of David.. BUT.. that fact doesn't make me more valid then him.. It doesn't make me right and him wrong or the other way around.. Remember This. 1 You agree with a poster.. All's well 2 You don't agree.. The poster will never convince you and you will never convince the poster. Best to say your piece and move on.. Constant debate leads no where.. Especially when the poster likes to debate just for debate itself.. Debate becomes a game to win. At all costs.. 3 You are undecided about how you feel.. One thing I know Joe.. It's fun to debate.. but the problem starts when people on both sides forget that we are friends and family here.. Sometimes, even if you are WINNING a debate.. YOU LOSE... You lose because you don't have the people skills to "sell" your concept to someone.. Hence your point and feeling that "someone is forcing their viewpoints on you" I see a lack of sales ability from that poster there.. :P Post edited by: CeasarsDad, at: 2007/09/16 14:53<br><br>Post edited by: CeasarsDad, at: 2007/09/16 15:29

daviddogma wrote: Are you drawing a line between clipping wings for no reason on this? I am confused.... Not sure why you are confused except to say you think like a machine and I do not.. You are digital and I am analog.. You have a "matter of fact" approach to things and I don't.. You see Black and White and I see a million shades of Grey... Don't get me wrong on this.. I'm not saying you are wrong in your processes.. I'm only saying that we have completely different ways of looking at things..

daviddogma wrote: Thats an easy one.. I was gonna say 100 times but thought I would be more dramatic.. How's that? Living with a loving family of people trumps living wild and always worrying about where the next meal is coming from or when you will have to die in the jaws of a snake.. Again, the argument has no real answer because you don't know what the bird is thinking.. What I'm saying is that it doesn't matter.. The birds life is so enriched by living with the planets highest life form you must consider this.. Imagine 2 glasses of water.. One is 12 inches high and the other is 6 inches high.. Both are filled to the rim.. Which is more forfilled? So a flighted bird might be better.. Yes, but the clipped bird also is forfilled in ways he could have never achieved in the wild.. I wanted to remind you of this.

FairY wrote: OK fine.. Your parents were kidnapped by Aliens and you were born into it.. Hows that?

Rambo.. I thought the same thing as you did about Alex.. that he may have been over trained.. NOT ABUSED though. It's important to realize that Alex was a VERY LUCKY African Grey.. He was around the smartest life form on the planet.. Contrast that against the Grey that is locked away in his cage with no new toys... and barely clean water.. The later case is way too common.. Regarding someone comment about Greys living to 50 and Alex died at only 31.. That is meaningless really.. Humans are suppose to live to 80 something.. Why do some die at 30?

One more thing David.. I personally LOVE your debates and would never want to see it stop.. People like you make forums like this active, interesting and informative.. Thank you.. Those of us that don't agree with you will discount what you say.. Those of us that agree with cheer for you.... Those of us that are undecided I imagine will remain... well.. .undecided.. <br><br>Post edited by: CeasarsDad, at: 2007/09/16 05:59

daviddogma wrote: David.. Do you live in a Black and White world? From reading all your posts I get the feeling that you are very much a victim of Black and White thinking.. Certainly you realize we live in a color world.. with many variables.. In fact, you make statements about the Grey and his wings when you have no idea what the Grey is thinking when he finds out he can't fly.. That's an interesting point isn't it.. So if you are gonna use your "logic" on how the bird feels I would love to see just how you know EXACTLY how the bird feels.. Clearly you or anyone can't know this..

Here's mine.. I didn't want to reduce it to 500 pixels across so here is a larger image... http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u97/venuto/DSC_0160.jpg<br><br>Post edited by: CeasarsDad, at: 2007/09/16 05:44

You see, when you talk about how cruel it is to clip a birds wings and you talk about how the bird is "traumatized" you are only looking at a tiny part of the situation.. Because you are forgetting about the other side of the equation.. Everything in life is a trade off.. If you think otherwise you are walking around with blinders on.. A clipped bird living among the planets most intelligent life form, humans, is 1000 times better off clipped then it's brothers and sisters living a flighted life in the wild.. Imagine for a second that you were taken by aliens one night.. Imagine that these aliens removed your thumbs on each hand... No reason.. They just did it.. Horrible you might say for the human.. What a trauma.. But then you realize that these aliens mean you no further harm at all.. In fact, over the rest of your life they tell you secrets of the universe that you only dreamed about. Some are so fantastic you never thought of them at all. They share things with you that is so mind blowing you are in awe. They show you things you never imagined was possible. Secrets and things only found in the best science fiction novels. So, you lost your thumbs, yes.. But what did you gain instead? Not only that.. but you soon found out that you didn't need those thumbs anymore anyway. This is the same thing that happens with the clipped bird.. At first it seems horrible to clip them.. and the bird suffers.. but in the big picture this bird is allowed to live with a life form that is so much more advanced that the bird is way better off then it's wild cousins. The dabate about clipping is moot.. Because you negate all the other benefits living with Humans brings that bird and only judge that birds well being on one thing.. Whether or not its' wings were clipped.. this is short sided at best..

Well.. Yeah..

Hercules, our European Starling, had 2 kinds of worms at the same time.. It's actually very common for birds to have worms.. Their system learn to deal with them and the worms stay in check.. never really over running the birds internal digestive systems..

Do you REALLY... Interesting

Hi Nicole. Welcome to the family.. It there is anything you need as you navigate around the site feel free to ask all the questions you need to.. As Monique has already said.. We have a great team of Moderators and Admins.

Pryde wrote: This is exactly what this memorial is all about. Stories and tid bits about this awesome species. Pryde.. You bring up a great point. It's the species that is so intelligent.. Remember, Irene chose Alex from a normal everyday pet shop.. Alex was not the result of selective breeding of any kind. Alex was just a normal AG that had above normal interactions with humans.. And look at the results.. It's encouraging to know that inside each and every AG we own and love there exists an Alex waiting to come out..

This is one of those days I will not forgot for a long long time if ever.. I can't imagine how Irene is feeling tonight.. Perhaps just like a mother that has lost her child.. In discussing this memorial with Talon and Melissa we thought that we would start this thread so our family here could post anything and everything related to Alex. Stories, Videos, Photos and anything else you can find on the net.. Let this be the place for all things Alex.. For as long as I am here in this forum this thread will be a sticky...

Look at the outpouring of love these "threshold" threads create. How anyone can tell me that the feelings expressed here by our members for another member aren't important, you got me.. You do realize that there are people here that don't "get it" in regards to why it's important how others "feel".. What a cold heartless world it would be if we were over run by people like this.

Monique wrote: Monique.. Don't you think that it would be important to actually WATCH the video before you made any comments. You are an ADMIN here aren't you? I would think that because of that you should be concerned about what is posted here.. If you didn't watch the video how can you make statements about weather or not the post should stay?

Tari, I can remember when you first joined Grey Forums. It seems so long ago but really it's just a few months. In that short time here you have gotten lots of great comments by other members here. Comments like Tari is a wonderful moderator who brings a wealth of knowledge to the forum.A caring & great lady to know,i look forward to our new friendship Tari is a very kind and thoughtful person. One of the first to really make me feel welcome. Thank you knowing when I need and PM Tari, is a specially gifted and loving person when it comes to People and Parrots. Her devotion and compassion on the forum is a great asset A valuable member and moderator. A friend to everyone. Has a wealth of knowledge about birds. You'll enjoy her artful banners! I love your gentle and caring approach to this forum, it's really a pleasure to read your posts A wonderfully caring and loving woman. Such an animal lover she has more animals then you can guess.. A positive forum member with lots of knowledge to share and the willingness to share it. One of a team of important Moderators to this wonderful site.. Tari, a couple of months ago I personally asked you to take over the "other birds" room. I needed a Moderator there and in my opinion I thought you were the best for that job. Tari, you have proved me so correct in that decision that you have made me so proud of you I can't begin to express it here in writing. As the above comments from your fellow members clearly outline, you are a cherished member of our family here and as a personal note let me "THANK YOU" for giving all you have gave to this forum. Your time, knowledge, experience, love and pain... I love what you bring to us here and hope to see you around forever... Congratulations Tari.. You deserve it... CD

Staggy, Don't worry about it.. It's OK that you posted it. We are all adults here.. Even the kids of today have heard this kind of language so there is no damage really being done.. It's good that there is a debate so lets have it.. OK..

Talon makes some very good points here.. I would like the other moderators and admins to PM me with your thoughts on this thread.. My feelings are aligned with Talon.

That's nice of you to say about me Makena.. Thank you.. You can't find a better camera in that price range then that Nikon I told you about.. Trust me on this.. I have owned 4 or 5 high end Nikons over the years and they have ALL performed wonderfully.. Not one breakdown in over 100,000 images captured..

Makena, I can't deny your request for more photos so here you go... Heres shots of the ship interior.. It's so big inside you would think you were in a shopping mall.. There there's these awesome scenic views of St. Thomas.. And YES. As nice as Hawaii.. Unless you are talking about erupting volcanos.. Then Hawaii has it.. How about some town shots.. I took these walking around the town near the ship. Here's one of Anna shopping in that same town. Check out this Tree Post edited by: CeasarsDad, at: 2007/09/04 01:35<br><br>Post edited by: CeasarsDad, at: 2007/09/04 01:38

Makena, It always happen like that.. Whenever we go to the Caribbean the Hurricanes are either just the week before or right after we leave.. Call it luck.... ;)

Melissa.. Everything was fine with me not getting sunburned UNTIL the last full day.. It was that day that I decided to "lay out" in the sun.. Just for 15 minutes.. WELL.. 15 minutes in the Caribbean Sun is like a lifetime of NY sun.. and I'm paying the price now..