Dave007

A grey's normal environmental ( comfortable) temperature is between 68 to 73 degrees. People will say that that number can vary a bit but since you're new to greys, *better safe than sorry* . Besides the surrounding room heat, you would need a slight humid atmosphere for the bird because greys have extremely dry skin which can flake and sometimes cause problems for both the skin and feathers and plucking/chewing. Drafts are a no no especially in winter. NY has nasty winters. I'm not really sure what you mean by *cage heater* but that type of item can't produce any humidity and it would actually destroy whatever humidity that exists. Plus, electric items need to be watched. A cage heater can actually harm a bird. Pet stores don't sell such items. I don't know how cold your apt gets but the bird can't be in a terribly cold environment. PS--This is my wife, Gene. This is what she suggests--------Hi, Perhaps a better solution would be to consider a small "space heater". They are sold with thermostatic controls so that they may be set to maintain a preset temperature throughout the day. This type of heating can be economical and safe as opposed to a cage heater that would probably provide a more directed intense heat which would be dehydrating to a bird. Also, long term, this heat would affect their plummage and skin in a very negative way. Good luck!

*****mainly through seeds like the ones I mentioned in the original post ?****** I may misunderstand you but I get the feeling that the seeds you mention will be the main type of food to be given in order to get vitamins, calcium and proteins which isn't the way to feed a grey. In order for a grey to get the items mentioned above the bird has to eat as big a variety of vegetables as it can take. Fruits offer very little of anything but some won't hurt. Your bird needs vegetables and good mixed parrot seed . Decent parrot mix has many healthy seeds in it. Vegetables are what gives the bird all the vitamins, calcium and proteins it needs. A grey won't like all veggies. Carrots should be given. A grey can get concentrated calcium by eating chicken bones. Some different human food should be given to a grey. The coconut oil you mention isn't as good as red palm oil. Red palm nuts can be cracked in order to get to the oil. They can't crack open coconuts. That's why they don't eat coconut oil in the wild. Palm nuts/oil is what they eat in the wild. Veggies don't need any moderation. They should always be available. Parrots are scavengers and will eat many things in the wild that give them proteins such as different bugs. Concentrate on getting your bird used to eating average natural foods such as veggies. Greys are nut eaters. Regular type nuts such as almonds, walnuts, hazelnuts provide protein as well as vitamins. Because of their size, greys need some foods that they can hold. Feeding foods that are proven to provide all the essentials will decrease your worrying about good fats and bad fats. You need to get your bird used to eating veggies while it's still young.

There's plenty of things that the bird has to get used to in his new home---household habits---new people----other pets----new environment----general hustle and bustle of the house etc etc. That usually takes months, not weeks. The bird has to first feel assured and comfortable in it's new house. Lots of talking to the bird, having the bird in the middle of everything that goes on in the house on a daily basis. The bird has to learn your habits, the husband's habits. Immediate intense physical handling is not a good idea right now. At this time, it's not a good idea to have lots of strangers constantly hanging around your bird. There's a couple of 'classification' names that apply to all pre owned adult parrots that're adopted. One is 'the bird has a past history' and the other is 'the bird has some baggage attached'. Most of the time, history and baggage can't be gotten rid of. A grey never forgets. It simply adds the new situation to his saved up info. It can be modified though as soon as your new bird realizes that many things are now different. Handling your bird is an individual thing because your bird has it's own personality unlike any other bird even though it might be the same species. The best thing to do right now is to say to yourself that "I shouldn't be disappointed if everything I hope will happen doesn't happen". Having that attitude allows you to see the many other great features of your new bird and will help you to enjoy and appreciate them. Besides the grey I have since he hatched, I have some pre owned parrots and none of them are 'ideal'. They're simply great birds and I'm glad they're happy. Some of them were serious biters. My wife and I, working with them for quite a while, have succeeded in lessening the bites BUT they still bite. It doesn't completely go away. Not to worry if biting sometimes happens. It's a type of communication. I have no idea about Baby's biting and it's something you should watch until you're sure about itbecause he's in a new home with a new atmosphere surrounding him. So far, biting isn't a problem but he hasn't moved into his new permanent home. PS----if you live in NYC, you may wanna think about buying your different items (cages--playstands) in NJ. NYC is extremely expensive as far as parrot supplies goes. Nearly double the price in NYC. I lived there for 55 yrs and I know the prices are extremely high, especially on pet supplys.

For thqt, just ask the dog. Either he loves it enthusiasticly or doesn't. The dog may be a connisteor.

Ok, now for a method. Your bird is an adult and you really don't know the success of the step up resistance or acceptence that happened. First, get a perch about 10 to 12 inches long. Instead of imediately using your hand for step up, start using the perch. Your bird is likey to step up on a stick and if he flies away, he can be easilt retrieved. Hold the perch at the end with the rest of it untouched. After a while, a bird will finally accept a branch type item. After it's obvious that he accepts it, Very slowly use your hand and cover more of the perch( just a little). Repeat the above until he accepts it agin. The time that this will happen will usually be shorter than the first time you started this process. After accepting that much, give him less perch to step on. Let him get used to it. As time goes on, your hand will be getteing closer and closer. By that time, your hand won't be a stranger to him. He should eventually step up on your hand as it gets closer and closer. When this happens slowly walk around with him and put him back on the cage. Repeat the process until its a regular habit. Mny times this method works when birds are afraid or leery of new hands. Also, I've recommended that sme birds should be brought to an empty quiet room with a door on it with the bird on the floo. There' no noise, it's quiet, no place to hide. Repeat it over and over and over. No matter what method you use just remember to put no time limits on things which YOU think should have had success. All birds are different and adult birds are resistant to change. One important thing about that perch---always use it aiming it slightly upward. Bids like to go higher as opposed to lower on anything they stand on. Aim it higher and higher as time goes on.

Your grey really looks like a powerhouse. AS far as your question, there's a room here called Photography and Video Room

I don't know how a person could possibly misunderstand or misinterpt what I said. What I said was the shortest, simplest and correct reply that was put in the thread and others eventually repeated what I said.

And to add on something that Steve said---it's also not good to be kissing your bird. Very unnatural and possibly dangerous.

Well, now that everyone has gotten it out of their system about the different animals they or don't like to kill and people who deserve to be shot and what animals should be destroyed and what things should happen to *bully* animals exist and what good birds or bad birds that exist, how about changing the subject to something else? I gotta eat dinner right now in my *civilized* country. I don't think that's too much to ask for.

Not much to add other than remembering that dogs are domestic animals and crave human attention. They would much rather live in a human environment. On the other hand all Parrots ( greys included) are and will always be wild animals even if kept as pets. If they get loose there's a good chance that the owner will never find them because parrots crave the natural outdoors and will quickly disappear so matter how nicely they were treated in a house. That's why greys and other parrots need special attention. By the way, eating those dogs??? That's gross.

Instead of trying to figure out amounts of food, amounts of feedings, deciding on when your bird should normally start giving up formulas, why don't you take up the habit of feeding the bird all it wants at each feeding until he/she refuses to take more. That means the bird will spit up or refuse a feeding or amount of formula in a feeding. One feeding or amount of feeding can be lessened when this happens. it's called abundance feeding and as far as I'm concerned, that's the only true way to wean any bird. There is no specific time that weaning occurs. All birds are different and are individuals.

Why would you wanna stop or discourage a bird's natural function? All parrots do it. It's a big mistake to interfere with that natural reaction to different things. That's like trying to stop a person from smiling or crying.

VERY ABUSED GREY--SO SAD Hi all, my name is Pepper and I am an extremely abused African Grey Parrot. I am looking for a new home where I can live my life the way I was meant to. In an attempt to convey to you the level of abuse, let me give you some examples: My day does not start off well. I wake up with the sun around 6:00am. I then start whistling for dad. Often, dad ignores me and does not come right away. Sometime it is not until 7:30am before dad comes to get me out of my cage. Every other day or so, I get a shower. Dad gets me all wet and then I am patted by an evil towel. I am not sure what type of torture this is supposed to be, but he pats me all over and then he lets me sit and drip. When dad is shaving, he does not let me play with the shaving cream. What is with that? He's such an SOB!!!! After playing with me for a measly hour, dad makes my breakfast. I like to take things out of my bowl and throw them while dad is preparing things, but he doesn't let me do that anymore. Now he makes me WATCH while is getting things ready. I feel like I am going to have a breakdown at these times. I hate his cruelty. BREAKFAST SUCKS!!! Dad puts all this crap in my bowl. Pellets, Dried fruit, nuts, seeds, and other things. I think he is trying to starve me to death. All I need are peanuts. And French fries. Just fill my bowl with peanuts and French fries and I'll be fine. I've tried to tell him this but he won't listen. He just doesn't care how I feel. When dad leaves for work he puts me in my huge cage. Or should I say the torture chamber. There are things hanging all over the place. Bells, ropes, plastic things, wood things, all sorts of things. I tried attacking these things and ripping them to shreds, but new ones keep showing up. It'a a never ending uphill battle. Once a week, dad takes me to work. This is not fun. He puts me in a plastic box and then puts me in the car. I can't see where I am going!! I dig and dig and finally he lets me out so I can see, but it takes him FOREVER!! Just think about it--1/2 hr IS FOREVER!! At work, there are a whole bunch of evil people. They all try to touch Me, and play with me. I just bite them all. Except for one guy. I like him. Dinner time is teasing time. Dad eats his dinner and does not give it all to me. Sometimes, he gives me a piece of his dinner, but I just throw it on the floor to point out my displeasure. There are times I prefer take out, plain and simple but he just shrugs. Finally, I can't even start to tell you about all the things that I can't do. I can't chew on the paper towels that dad used to clean up my poop. I Can't chew on dad's mail. I can't chew on dad's notebook computer. I can't chew on the remote control. I can't chew on the telephone cable. Anyway, you get the point. I'm a parrot and simply wanna try the unknown. You think he cares?? So, please, please, If you know of a home that can satisfy my needs, let me know immediately. Thank you all, for your help and understanding. Bless you

This is not meant to be insulting. It's just another side of parrot ownership and all people should get a complete picture of ownership. Adopting a pre-owned parrot is a different thing and with it comes some difficulties and situations although the new informed owner is able to understand what they're actually seeing in that parrot. Usually, those people already own or have owned other parrots and are able to ease the pressure that the pre-owned parrot is going through. These parrots have usually lived in either one or a few homes in the past. With each home, the parrot develops habits that pertain to what's going on there. Parrots don't forget things very easily and when that parrot moves on to that next home he/she takes those habits with him/her. It's frequently referred to as 'baggage' which involves many aspects of the parrot's personality and habits and ways of thinking. The ideal adoption of a pre-owned parrot is getting one that has no 'baggage', but that's impossible. First of all, the parrot is older and very sure of itself. The 'baggage can't be gotten rid of. Usually, a person that adopts a pre-owned parrot forfeits the experience of that parrot living and acting like a baby. Many people, be they experienced or inexperienced don't have a problem with that phase of ownership. The people who do have a problem are the ones that expect that experience. They don't get that experience. What they do see is an obvious amount of previous 'baggage' and they become disillusioned and many times, the parrot will soon be off to it's next home. The amount of 'baggage' that the parrot stores away when living in that home depends on how long the parrot has lived there. Part of that newly obtained 'baggage' are the personalities of all the different owners and the methods used to make the parrot conform at each home. Again I say, parrots don't forget and they have the natural ability to store away more and more situations. Some of these owners should have never taken on the adoption of a pre-owned parrot and some of these same people should have never taken on the task of owning any parrot. The only similar thing I can compare this situation to is the adoption of a child. The ideal adoption is when the child is very, very young and the new parents are being given the chance to easily intergrate that baby into their family life and style. But what about those children that are 7, 8, 9 yrs and older. They also come with 'baggage' which will remain with them. Some people can't handle that older child and then he/she will shortly be making that familar journey back to those different foster homes and all over again just waiting for the right people to come along and who will accept them for what they presently are. Adopting an older child isn't for everyone. Adopting an older parrot isn't for everyone. Luckily, there are those experienced people out there who can cope with either situation. The people that get baby parrots are doing another type of wonderful thing by providing that new creature with a hopefully good future. My message here is that people should never think less of themselves if they can't adopt an older bird. It's not for everyone. There are many people out there that can and do adopt the older bird. They open their hearts and homes for that less than perfect lonely, sad mistreated bird never expecting a huge major change but instead, their only desire is that the parrot will put all the wonderful new experiences that are about to happen into their 'baggage' pouch and live happily ever after in their final home and we should never forget to give those people as many gold stars as are available._________________

At the southeast corner of the Red Sea in Corraco's Diner. I'll reserve a private booth

That type of herb is used by people. We advise you to go to your vet and inquire about it. There are no vets here and any info given out by members concerning drugs that aren't used for birds can cause problems both for you, your bird and this board.

I'm really glad you posted that link although now I'm gonna have problems doing what I gotta do throughout the day. You say *cage the vendors*. I've got some more choice things for the vendors but this is a family oriented board. It's been years that I heard about the mart and I don't live anywhere near Cal. To the OP, simply stay away if you don't wanna cry.

I've heard about those markets before although I forgot where they're located. It's been years. Basically, they're arts and craft centers, food booths, flea markets, they sell food from neighboring farms and some livestock. They also trade used goods amongst each other. As far as exotic animals(parrots), I really don't remember anything about that. Just thought I'd give you an idea since you were curious. Maybe you and I can make a trip and check it out. Just remember that I'm married.

Some people never try to change the name. some people use a similar sounding name. Other people never say the word(present nme) again. You may wanna pick a name and add a word or sound to it. Some birds may repeat the original word even with a new name. Some birds may not assoiate a word(name) to themselves. but They will get used to your tone, vocal inflection so try out a few things. Use your imagination. SOME NAMES ( MALE & FEMALE & UNISEX ) Sunny--- Vergil ---Paco---- Floyd--- Skye ---- Poncho--- Taz --- Sparky --- Ozzie--- Buffy --- Roxy---Joey --Maxi ----Dusty ----Sammy---- Gumby ---- Cisco ----Paddy -----Romeo--- Buster---- Sunshine---- Scooter---- Moonshine ----Sugar---- Sweetie ---- Tazzy------ Petey---- Juan ----- Tiger -----Tweets ----Keiko---Cody---- Okie -----Rexxy----- Chipper -----Minnie ----- Bart----- Ricki ----Kiwi ----- Sunny -----Reba ----Tino----- Buddy---- Angel ------Yuska -------Zelda ----Tookie -----Harley ------ Buster -----Zoey -----Jax----- Ricky------ Princie ---- Mokie-----Coco -----Penny----- Molly ------ Peaches -----Candy -----Ozzy------ Bandit -- Oscar ------Tango------ Sweet Pea ------ Hogan ------Harry------ Sophie----- Rosa ----Robbie ----- Casper ----- Elvis ------ Chipper--- Sweet Pea -----Nibbles----- Sparky------Mickey----Suger ----- Dusty------ Rocky------ Belle

These two sound very interesting. Thanks for posting the links.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/DaveVP/th.jpg

In a recent thread, Nancy said that Sophie's favorite song was DO, RE, ME which she's done with Sophie because Sophie demands it. SO I'd like to present kins2321@ yahoo.com ( Nancy) doing SOPHIES,SONG----------------Sung by Nancy

I would also add that when using a stick, aim it upward. Birds don't like walking down on sticks or branches to bite at things. Their normal direction is upward.

I totally agree. You're definitely showing signs.

1 is 18 yrs old. 1 is 15 yrs old and the last one is 9 yrs old and the breeders are between 17 to 19 yrs old. I have 1 quaker who's 16 yrs old and another one who's 8 yrs old