Dave007

Judy, good god, what have I done!! I just turned around and told my greys that a woman named Judy just complimented them. All 3 got very annoyed because I disturbed their afternoon siesta. Each demanded an almond. After eating them they turned to me and warned about what would happen if I did that again. BUT, they did want me to say thank you very much. Thank heavens they're napping again. I 'm not saying that I know everything about greys but after 20 yrs of dealing greys in all phases, having pet greys, having breeding greys that aren't pets, having sold chicks and having rehomed greys, I can see how people might be disturbed at what might happen when a 2nd or 3rd bird is taken in. Most rehomed birds are adults. They've lived in from 1 to 3 places. At each place they develop a permanent history or baggage of that particular place which remains permanent. When they finally arrive that the permanent home (hopefully), they bring that baggage with them and they're not as warm and affectionate as the #1 bird. They don't come around as much as people would like. That doesn't mean that some sort of a bond or friendship can't be created with the new owner/birds. 2 of my 3 three pet greys were serious problem birds when they arrived. They're fine now but it took a long time. I have a method which has worked well for me. The #1 bird who has always been there should be fed first, given treats first, put onto a playstand first, petted first, have the cage cleaned first etc. This will make that #1 bird feel that it's status in the aviary and with the owner hasn't changed at all. There's many solutions and the trick is to find one that works well in that house. Concerning what's on the all I'm a wood carver and I've done many carvings of different parrots and other wild birds and keep them in my aviary room. <br><br>Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/08/03 23:46

I have 3 greys--2 CAGS and 1 TAG. 2 out the 3 are rehomed and all 3 are adults. I got the rehomed birds about 3 to 4 years apart. They're 6, 9 and 13 yrs old. Each has it's own personality and each has their own cage next to each other. They can easily get to each other's cages which they do frequently. Each has their own special affection for my wife and I. What thing that's happened is that as each new bird took up residence the others actually helped the newest one in fitting in to the new environment. One of my greys (CAG) on stand has been with us since he was in the egg because I own his parents. His affection hasn't waivered at all. All have bonded strongly to the wife and I. I don't believe that there can be a *certain degree or amount* of bonding. Some parrots who are the only bird in the house won't bond as well with the owner as another bird in another house will bond with the owner. That has to do with the parrot's nature. So, in a sense I do agree with Sashagirl. The biggest problem is not so much bonding with the owner as it is getting the birds to tolerate each other.

Leaving a grey alone all day isn't a good idea. Many habits can be formed and if those habits are allowed to develop, they can become permanent. Greys need time out of the cage every day. Buying a grey and then leaving it alone all day isn't the way to develop a good bond. In the beginning a grey needs to become familiar with people, surroundings, people's habits etc. Many of those day time things aren't done at night cause the grey has to go to sleep sometime. If there was someone else at home all day then you would have less problems. Think about getting a parrot that does very well in a cage all day. True, there are people that have had luck but they're in the minority.

That's simple. Been clipping since she was an extremely young bird?? She simply nerver learned how to fly which takes about 8 mts. That amount of natural learning also allows a parrot to build up extremely strong breast and wing feathers, coordination, equilibrium, the ability to know what proper vertical and horozontal flight is all about. Wild animals aren't mean't to be altered just to fit into a person's scheme of things. A parrot is a wild animal from the day it's born to the day it dies. That can be easily verified. People just don't wanna believe that fact. Broken blood feather----if a flight feather is naturally 7 inches long and the blood in that feather extends from the body in that feather out about 3 inches and clipping 2 inches from the tip of that feather, how much closer is the blood located near the clipped wing tip. Do the math. Much easier to start that blood flowing out of the wing since it has such a short distance to travel.<br><br>Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/04/21 18:12

They're *mature* when they're approx 5 yrs old but usually not successful until they're 6 or older. This applies to both male and female. Neither one matures earlier or later than the other.----Dave

Manzanita is extremely expensive. Only the commercial playstand manufactorers use it and the price is very high. If you have a backyard, cut some branches of different thicknesses and soak them in water for about 2 hrs. Then, peel off the bark. The wood underneath the bark is very hard. After peeling, put the pieces in an oven for about 15 to 20 minutes to completely dry them off and to kill anything that might still remain. Put them where you like. I've been doing it for years

<br><br>Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/03/29 01:51

Toys------start giving different pieces of wood that can be destroyed. Greys are well known to be chewers. Make sure the wood is on the hard side. Bathing----Almost all greys dislike bathing. Change to cold water. They prefer cold water as opposed to warm or room temp water. When bathing, make sure that the underneath areas of the wings and other hidden places are soaked down. greys have a waterproof set of feathers and water usually runs off them. The wings need to be pulled away from the body about 1 inch so that that area can be soaked down. The important thing here is soaking as opposed to just washing the grey down. It's the skin that has the problem. Soak him down and let him drip dry at his own pace. The longer he stays wet the better. If you're using Aloe Vera Gel and watering it down, that won't help. You need to get 100% ALOE VERA JUICE. Make sure it says 100% on the bottle. Pharmacies and Dept stores such as Walmart carry it. It costs about $8 for a 1 gal.jug. Fill a mister with 1/2 juice -1/2 water and saturate him as best as you can. It might involve 2 people doing this. Games--take a rope, make a loop, let him see it and try to start a tiny game of tug of war. Dealing with all types of problems that humans have aren't the same as a bird's problems nor are they as serious so stop kicking yourself. """Anyway, I am desperate. I am devastated that he's started the feather picking. I feel like a total failure. """' Feather plucking/ chewing isn't the end of the world. It just needs to be treated when it first shows itself which is now. There's thousands of birds that have that problem in all stages of seriousness. Don't misunderstand me here. I'm not saying you're doing this but if you or your hubby have been petting areas like the lower back, under the wings, lower breast area or near the vent area, then stop it. That can cause arousal which can cause feather chewing or plucking. There is no overnight cure for plucking and chewing. It takes time for the urge to ease up. Sometimes, sexual frustration can cause that and before you ask, that can happen to a bird that's 1 yr or older even if the bird has no sexual abilities because of a young age. It's nature that's dictating that. The humidifier is a good idea. A gradual change in weather can cause feather chewing A bird that's about to molt or has just finished molting will sometimes pluck or chew. But most importantly, you gotta relax cause your grey is gonna pick up on the fact that you're very upset concerning something that has to do with him. If he gets uptight, he'll chew somemore. You really gotta calm down about this. It isn't the end of the world and in no way did you fail him---Dave

I don't know all the vets that're in business but it's been a long time since I saw one suggesting one wing clipping. Did you know that years ago vets used to recommend that people who put their birds on playstands should put a thing chain on one leg to keep them on the stand? That's another thing that's now unacceptable---Dave

No type of bonding between a person and a parrot occurs in a pet shop. That's a process that takes a while and that bird has to be living in a totally different environment away from other birds before it can begin. There is no such thing as 'quick bonding'. The owner proceeds to become friends with the bird at home. A bird misses the others that it was with and will not show obvious affection for you. Interest, curiousity---yes but no affection. At it's new home, the bird has to get used to a new environment, a new set of people, new surroudings, new family habits that go on. When purchasing parrots basic things to watch for are active birds but again, that means very little if the birds are napping or relaxing. By all rights, every bird that's for sale should be healthy. If not, refunds and or exchanges are available. Personally, I would never buy a grey from a pet store because no one can give any specific information about the parents (health-overbreeding). Compare that with pure bred puppies. A person has no idea if the puppies came from strong stock. Many puppies that are sold in pet shops come from puppy mills in which the parents are bred over and over and over until they're useless. I prefer private parrot breeders that will give much more info about the history of the bird. Their guarantees/warranties/exchanges are more legitimate. The pet shop owner was also the breeder? Sounds strange. """So the breeder told him off and he stopped""" Parrots aren't supposed to be scolded for doing what comes naturally.------Dave

That's a habit that's developed when they're babies. Many birds will do that into adulthood. It's called head bobbing and some species do it more than others. It does it for attention like petting or rubbing. Nothing to worry about but I would suggest that you stop kissing her on the mouth for 2 reasons 1---you never can tell when the bird will decide to bite your lip. You might think she will never do this but it's better to be more safe than sorry. 2---Our saliva is extremely toxic to a parrot and if they accidently ingest some, they could get extremely sick----Dave

I'm not Shanlung but I'd like to add my feelings on the 'one wing' clip. First, the reason wing clipping is done is to stop the bird from flying upward towards ceilings where ceiling fans, curtains and tall cabinets are located. There's a chance that on those cabinets there's items (sometimes breakable) that a bird can fly into and knock them over and that'll cause breakage. As far as moving ceiling fans, there's a chance that a bird will fly onto the wings of that fan and get seriously injured before the person can stop it. Also, a frightened bird might wind up behind those cabinets where electric wire and sockets are. One bite of the wire, and you'll know the results.Breakage of wings, smashing the bird's head, cracking breast areas, breaking of claws that get caught up in curtain material can happen etc. Proper wing clipping will allow a bird horozontal movement and the ability to glide downward to a floor. The ideal wing clip is one that allows a bird to fly about 8 ft before gliding down. Unfortunately, ideal wing clips aren't always done. Vets and their technitions have their own ideas about wing length. A long time ago, 'one wing' clipping was finally discouraged because it will only allow a bird to fly in a circle which is unnatural. Eventually, a bird will figure out that flying that way isn't any fun and will cause the bird to stay in one area. Now, that might be fine with a lot of people but if something unknown happens and causes the bird to be startled it will fly away but it still can't readjust the way it flys away. It can cause a bird to fly into a wall. Basically, the end result is that a bird suffers from so many different ideas. Again I'll say, I'm not a fan of any type of wing clipping because I definitely believe it affects a bird's natural outward personality. Cockiness, spunkiness, sureness of itself are among those things that can get affected. Many people who clip wings aren't even aware that a bird has a personality that's being held in check. I believe that better training of a bird can be accomplished when that outward personality is developed. Another reason I don't believe in wing clipping is because if a bird remains clipped for a long period of time and that outward personality is never developed but is then allowed to have it's wings grown back that outward personality will still not be able to come out. Habits of birds are hard to readjust and change. Yesterday, I spoke about my grey and what I did with him as far as long distance outdoor flight BUT I can guarantee you that none of that could have been accomplished if he had first be allowed to develop and grow as a clipped bird. Because of his boldness combined with his trust in me I was successful. I've seen many bird's personality undeveloped and hindered because of wing clipping. I studied Shanlung's style and applied it to my grey with some variations but it did work. Again, as opposed to many other boards, I will not insult people who clip. Nor will I tell them not to clip. That's a person's choice. All of what I say about personality here has to do with not only my grey but to other greys too. I've seen it with many, many other greys through the years of dealing with them. I also believe that my feelings on wing clipping apply to other species of parrots too. My close friend has 2 cockatoos and they've never been clipped and he has never had any problems with them and they're frequently outside. Concerning my greys in the house, because they're unclipped they have absolutely no desire to fly upward onto curtains, fans and cabinets. They much rather fly to my hands, arm or onto my leg. Shanlung may disagree with me concerning outward personality but as I've said what I say is strictly my opinion----Dave<br><br>Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/03/26 18:46

Getting another bird won't help his chewing/plucking and there's no way of telling whether they will like each other. It doesn't matter if it's the same species. It's very easy for a parrot to tune out another parrot when he/she wants to or needs to do something else such as chewing feathers. The chewing is what you should be worrying about. You went to the vet and the final diagnose was boredom? Did he suggest anything for you to do? A grey needs at least 4 to 5 hrs out of a cage every day. A cage bound grey will definitely start plucking and or chewing feathers. Besides the inside of a cage, toys have to be outside, preferably on a playstand. Greys are known to have extremely dry skin and they should be bathed or sprayed regularly and even more so when there's a plucking/chewing problem. Greys who have very dry skin often develop clogged pores in the lower shafts of feathers which makes them pull/chew/pluck feathers and that's why bathing/misting is necessary. If his cage is near any heating vents, that could cause dry skin. There are certain times of the year when there's very little humidity and that can cause dry, scaly skin. The 2 most important things that you should get involved in is 1----giving your grey much more freedom out of the cage 2----bathing and misting your grey so that the skin will eventually become more supple and less dry.--Dave

ABSOLUTELY PERFECT SIZE. SAME AS MINE!!!!!------CONGRATULATIONS THAT'S A GOOD PRICE TOO------Dave

Congrats on the cage One thing though.......better check the spacing on that cage. Make sure your grey can't stick his head through the bars. Timnehs have small heads. Smaller heads than Congos. The cage size you picked is the one that's usually picked out for large Cockatoos and medium to large sized macaws. my opinion is that if you could go down to the next size cage,it would be safer. The next size down would still be huge for a Timneh-------Dave<br><br>Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/03/26 01:35

1---Timneh cage should at least 28x22 inches 2---Congo cage should be at least 32x26 inches 3---Both greys are very comfortable in larger size. 4---Seed doors that are solid are only available on Stainless Steel cages which start at $699 to $999. 5---all seed bowls, be they stainless steel or unbreakable plastic that are the 'drop in the round holder frame' type can't be lifted out of the frame by a parrot. No bowl lock is necessary. That's the reason they invented 'drop in' frames. 6---Any seed that falls out of a bowl will either drop down to the bottom of the cage or out of the cage down to the 4 walled seed guards that are located at the lower end of the cage. Below is pic of 2 identical sized cages. Both are 32x 26 inches. Timneh can be seen on his white cage. That will show how much room he has, both inside and outside--Dave Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/03/25 22:23 <br><br>Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/03/25 22:28

<br><br>Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/03/25 22:22

The grey that's pictured is minus the gene(caretinoid) that creates the red tail. No grey can be bred to look like that. When that happens it's gene based. The grey isn't considered a hybrid. -------Dave

approx 35 to 45/50.......some have been known to live to 60 years. My buddy has one that's 51 yrs old. That question can be very easily answered by looking up any history of greys on loads of sites------Dave Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/03/24 19:52<br><br>Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/03/24 19:55

A couple of years ago, I was studying the specific methods that Shanlung used in order to get his grey into a free flying mode. It was interesting and I decided to put lots of effort to achieve the same with my grey. I discussed it with him and basiclly he told me how to use baby steps and eventually work my way up. At the time no one else was interested in trying out the whole process but I did tell him that I would persue it. Yes, it took me a long time but I was finally successful. He spoke about his homemade harness. I never did figure out how to make that harness but I did make a few adjustments on the 2 harnesses I own and they worked. As of today, my grey Smokey will fly around for about 50 ft and will come back on command. I lengthened the amount of filament gradually and it worked very well. In the beginning of this training I told him that I had gotten up to 25 to 30 ft of Smokey's flight. Smokey would much rather check all outside things while he's next to me. Also, Smokey is able to handle the outdoors in my outdoor aviary as is my Timneh Tee. I have 2 major opinions about wing clipping that have proven true for the 20 odd years of being involved with greys. I won't tell people not to clip. That's an individual choice. My 2 opinions are 1--A parrot's personality and sureness of itself is much more developed when no clipping is involved. A parrot will show more of it's true personality if it's not clipped. I've seen that over and over and over. 2---Anyone who decides to clip should wait until that grey is at least 6 top 8 mts old so that the ability to fly up, down, to the left, to the right and also have the ability to steady itself in a still position in mid air to allow itself to make landings on things such as hummingbirds do. Actually all parrots have that ability but a clipped bird can't have that advantage. Concerning my Smokey, the free flight training would have never been successful if he didn't have that sureness and personality that an unclipped bird has. I accomplished these things with Smokey but I used slight variations than Shanlung. His method accomplished what he wanted with Tinkerbell and my method accomplished what I wanted with Smokey. The reason both methods worked was because Tinkerbell and Smokey are 2 individual birds with their own outward personalities. I connected with Shanlung about 2 1/2 yrs ago through an english board so I know he wouldn't even remember me but his ideas and feelings about flight training are the same as mine concerning what a parrot's personality has to be in order to teach and accomplish flight training-------Dave<br><br>Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/03/29 18:16

CAGS have the ability to imitate more amounts of human language than TAGS, On the other hand, TAGS have the ability to imitate many more different sounds than a CAG and TAGS will do their imitations much more quickly than a CAG will imitate human language. CAGs have to hear those words frequently and then they will practice those words for a while and when they're practicing those words the owner will have no idea what the CAG is practicing until the actual word/words are finally spoken. TAGs have the ability to imitate sounds almost as quickly as they hear those sounds. Personally, color means nothing to me. They're as different from each other as 2 different amazons are .---example....Double yellow headed amazon and yellow naped amazon.---Dave

It's very possible that the dry air combined with a lack of moving air in the apt could cause heavy breathing. He does this in the winter and then he's all right? Investing in a humidifier would be a good idea, not only for your bird but also for you. I have the same problem with dry air. I live in a part of PA that has very high elevation (fortunately, we're moving within 2 yrs) and my area is very dry. We must keep the windows closed all the time because of frigid temps. I have a humidifier in my bird room and I noticed a long time ago that my greys stopped scratching and picking at their very dry skin which all greys have. In the wild, many areas are partially humid which is where they congregate. Humidifiers can be home made or purchased in drug stores or chain outlets like Walmart. They range from $14 to $49. Usually, they have speed and strength settings on them----Dave<br><br>Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/03/21 19:50

Usually a pre owned parrot takes a lot longer to adjust to new surroundings, new people, new environment and new habits that the new owners have. Much more time than a baby grey. It's best to let him get used to all of these things and don't put time limits on things. One important thing is that you say he wasn't treated well in his other home. That adds to a grey's initial distrust of new things. He might feel threatened by your hand. He might feel that you're invading him. One thing you should do is to keep his cage in the midst of everything that's going on, the normal hustle and bustle of the house, the sounds of voices. It isn't a great idea to be physically handling him right now. Greys learn to trust people and things best when they're in the safety of their own home which is that cage. You'll definitely see him come around soon enough because greys are naturally curious and don't like being left out of the things he/she isn't frightened of. One other important thing---don't stick your hand in his cage to get him. He'll definitely bite or thrash around. Approach him outside the cage and just talk to him instead of physically handling him---Dave

Unfortunately, you're running into people who don't think about what they're saying, especially to a novice/potential bird owner. The Vet who said that there would be no problem gave correct advice. First of all, any bird that has any disease shouldn't be sold. It's against the law. That applies to people who breed them or pet shops that sell them. Second, there are no communicalbe diseases that one bird can give another bird unless it's already infected with certain contagious parrot diseases. Normally, when a person buys a parrot, it's usually taken to a vet to be checked out to get a "well bird" examination. if a problem is there, the buyer is given a refund or an exchange. Third---The huge majority of parrot owners usually have more than one parrot in the house and many times that 'other parrot' isn't the same species. Fourth---The only external illness/problem that might develop is when a person owns species of parrots that have extreme dander which is the natural dust that their feathers give off( Greys--Cockatoos )and those parrots are put into close quarters with other species of parrots that are prone to sinus or nasal problems. Fortunately, most people give their different species of parrots enough room to avoid each other if they want to. In order for sinus/nasal problems to occur, the bird's area would be a small, totally enclosed room that has no windows or airvents and all of the cages are shoulder to shoulder which isn't a good idea. I have 2 greys,one is a CAG and the other is a TAG plus a medium sized macaw and 2 quakers and they all live in the same general aviary room but fresh moving air is always there. The only other birds I own that are totally separated from my pet birds are my 3 pairs of breeder greys but that has to do with a breeding bird personality as opposed to a pet bird personality. None of my breeders are pets. I know loads of people who have greys with conures, greys with cockatoos, macaws with ringnecks, eclectus with quakers, conures with macaws and many more mixtures etc etc etc.----Dave Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/03/20 23:20 Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/03/20 23:30<br><br>Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/03/22 00:23