Dave007

""""" I wanted to know what purpose they served in the wild.""""""""" They sh**t on the ground so their droppings could act like fertilizer and grow weeds. """""How their speaking abilities helped/hurt them?""" Have no idea. I never climbed up and got into a conversation with any of them. I don't think they would have shared their secrets though. They were too high in the trees so I wouldn't climb up cause I'm afraid of heights. """""What are their predators? """" Hawks, peregrines, falcons, owls, eagles and any other bird that's hanging out and is carniverous.<br><br>Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/09/29 22:31

Hi John There's lots of people here from many different parts of the world. Ask questions, give opinions, tell us what's it's like concerning people and birds in your country. We all enjoy hearing about those things. Molting can begin at different times of the year. It depends on the humidity and dryness or humidity in air. Most parrots molt 2 x a year; others once a year. A complete molt can take as much as 3 months to finish. All that molting doesn't include the flight feathers or tail feathers. They fall off all year long, one or two at a time, so don't worry if you don't see those feathers fall off. If you have a digital photo, put it on the board. If you don't know how to do this, loads of people here will tell you how to. Enjoy your stay here-----Dave

"""""African Greys in the wild enter into a lifelong monogamous bond when sexually mature. They pick their mates carefully.""""" I totally agree with lovemyGreys. That's one reason why there are so many breeder Greys, breeder TOOs, breeder ZONs, Breeder Macaws who've lost their mates in adoption/rescue centers. It takes an experienced bird person to adopt these types of birds because the life style and personality of many breeder birds is totally different than pet birds and that person needs to know that any relationship with that breeder bird is going to be much different than adopting a previously owned pet parrot and that's because in the past they've only bonded with their mates. The most successful breeder parrots are the ones that have very little tolerance for human beings and have a strong bond with their mates. Concerning the breeder parrot's personality..put a breeder bird in with a pet parrot and many times, the breeder bird will seriously maim or kill the pet bird. As far as skin damage, yes a grey's bite can cause that. So will a bite from a lovebird, a conure, a rosella, a TOO, an Zon,a macaw,an indian ringneck parakeet and any other parrot that uses it's mouth to make a point. A macaw can go one step further and break a finger which I've also seen. As far as egyptians domesticating them, well, if they were domesticated way back when, they would be domesticated today. Now a days, if that statement was true it would be an important subject to constantly discuss on many boards and not on just grey boards Greys and other parrots are considered *wild birds* now as well as being *wild* back then. I don't know who started the rumor that male or female birds will leave after losing a mate. Parrots are flock animals. There are many male and female parrots in a flock that don't even have mates and they also stay in the flock. The closest thing to leaving a group belongs to the chimpaneze and they don't actually leave. The dominant male fights with other males that want to take over the position and the right to the females and if the alpha male loses he accepts the fact that he has to step down in rank or the winner will kill him. Sometimes, the fighting is so severe that the losing male will take off in order to not get killed. Dave Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/09/29 18:05 Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/09/29 18:43<br><br>Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/09/29 18:46

Most times, it has to do with the size of the parents. There's small, medium and large boned greys. If a grey is bought from a private breeder and that person will actually let you see the parents ( which most don't do ), then it's easy to figure out. All of my CAGs are large boned. The smallest is 540 grams--the largest is 606 grams. In case you're interested, no matter what size your grey finally winds up to be, it will make no difference in general traits of a grey. The only minor difference will be that smaller boned greys will be a little more agile and quicker when trying to avoid a person grabbing them. Slick little devils, right? Dave<br><br>Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/09/28 21:13

Absolutely no difference whatsoever. Who's healthier, a redheaded woman or brunette? Dave

"""""i've been looking for aloe everywhere cos a few of bri's feathers are looking a little bit worse for wear but i can find any can any UK members help?""""" Try Walmart or any large pharmacy company, health food stores, supermarkets that have a pharmacy area. Ask a pharmacy to order it for you Dave

A very well done job cause I can see that you got all the important places. I'm glad she took to it well. Do it once in a while and you'll see beautiful feathers although she's beautiful right now. Are you as beautiful or do you need the aloe too? Dave

Well, the fact that you have a red factor grey has nothing to do with all of the above problems. It's strictly an excess of or lack of genes that control color variation. Somewhere in your parrot's lineage there was an excess of caritoid genes. You might not have seen it in the parents or grandparents but it was definitely there in the past. This is the exact opposite <br><br>Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/09/27 22:41

Many people are always trying to get specific info on TAGs and CAGs before purchasing and that's a good thing because it shows that people are doing their homework I believe that more specific info can be given out much more easily if there were more subspecies of greys. As of now, there's only one and will remain so unless there's another subspecies found in some part of the world. The most accurate info (even though this info doesn't apply to every single bird in a subspecies) can be easily classified by the huge majority of owners who've owned them and that personality doesn't become permanent nor show up until the bird has reached adulthood. Examples Amazons--there are at least 10 different ZONs in different countries. The most complex personality to deal with is the Double Yellow Headed. The easiest is the Yellow Naped and then there's specific info concerning the other subspecies of ZONs. Many people buy DYHs for their color. Another Example Cockatoos--The hardest to handle are the Lesser and Greater Sulpher Crested TOOs. The only TOO that exceeds the two I mentioned are the Leadbeaters (aka Major Mitchells)TOO. They're the most aggessive. They're not discussed much because of their extreme high price and lack of availability. The easiest to handle are Goffin TOOs. Then there's specific info concerning the other subspecies of TOO. Many people buy the two I mentioned for their color. Another Example Macaws---Even though it's considered to be the most beautiful, the hardest to handle is the Scarlet Macaw. The easiest is the Blue and Gold Macaw. Then there's specific info concerning the other subspecies of Macaws. Many people buy the one I mentioned for it's color. Even worse than all of the above are hybrids which involves taking two parrots of different subspecies( example--Macaws ) and interbreeding them. What comes out is a parrot that has a mix of personality, a mix of color, an unknown life expectancy and an unclassified size difference. This terrible practice is stictly done for color variation. For instance and I'll hypothetically use these two macaws--a Blue and Gold and a Green Wing. Interbreed these two macaws and the chicks will come out with different personalities. Take the same two breeders and do it again and more than likely, the chicks will come out with different personalities than the first clutch. PS --To Nevjoe. Just to clear up something--I know you have a DYH but I also said that a specific personality classification doesn't apply to every single bird in that subspecies and I also said that specific personalities don't occur until adulthood. Dave Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/09/27 20:47 Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/09/27 21:13 Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/09/27 21:23<br><br>Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/09/27 21:52

CAG with excess carotene gene----22 yrs old Any grey that has this excess gene, no matter the amount, is not a mutation. Mutation only has to do with hybrid birds. Mutations are caused by people and it's a terrible thing to do because it only has to do with color. People who do this don't give a damn that they're mixing and scrambling 2 personalities. Dave ----------------------------------------------- Hybrids/mutations ---------------------- CAMALOT MACAW PIED RED SEVERE MACAW Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/09/27 19:11 Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/09/27 19:13 Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/09/27 19:16<br><br>Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/09/27 19:23

Yes, Red palm oil and Palm oil is the same thing. The oil should have an orange/red color or straight red color. Some labels say Red Palm Oil, Virgin Palm Oil and Palm Oil. In certain countries, it's purchased and used extensively for cooking. Yes, it's an edible cooking oil. Here in the US, it's not as common and a bit harder to purchase and most people don't cook with it. Many people in the US purchase it online. Dave Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/09/27 18:22 Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/09/27 18:26<br><br>Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/09/27 18:49

Anything I said doesn't apply to birds that are still being hand fed. Of course they have to be handled in order to receive their formula. But a fully weaned bird has already gotten used to a certain place, a regular routine and is usually in the company of siblings and all of those things change all at one time when the bird is shipped off. My opinion is that parrots shouldn't be sold until they're fully weaned. I've never sold an unweaned grey to anyone no matter how much they wanted to take it home. It has to do with the *well* check that has to be done shortly after the bird is purchased. A vet can't check for ever single thing that's necessary because the bird is still unweaned. Also, even though people here will disagree, I don't believe in shipping birds especially on airplanes.

Nature tells most parrots to wipe off any excess food or other foreign item from their beaks. They do that to make sure that no particles get pushed into their nostrils. That also applies to their feet (legs, toes and pads) which they're constantly cleaning and stripping off dead scales. They'll wipe their beaks on anything solid..perches, cage bars, edges of food dishes etc. Dave<br><br>Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/09/26 18:58

This is what happens to palm oil....When it's originally purchased, it looks like a washed out orange color. It's also somewhat thick. The secret is to take that original bottle and run hot sink water on it until the upper part of the oil starts to melt into a reddish color. That means that the palm oil is starting to thin out.Some companies actually tell you how to soften it in their instructions. It's not necessary to make sure that the whole bottle or plastic container is thin so aim the hot water on the upper side of the bottle/plastic container (near the cap)until you see that the palm oil is easily pourable. Then I fill up my small bottle and put the rest away until I have to refill the small bottle. Personally, I wouldn't put the large unused bottle in the fridge because it will really solidify and will take a longer amount of time to thin it out. Concerning the small bottle...after it's used, that little bottle of palm oil will also thicken and will slightly change back to it's original color and when the time comes to use it, I simply put the bottle in the microwave from 45 to 60 seconds. The amount of time differs depending on how full the bottle is. As it lessens, there's less time in the microwave. As far as how to use it..there's different ways of using it and that depends on the bird's like or dislike of the oil. I use the drip method on pellets. My birds won't take it straight. A person here uses a teaspoon and gives it straight.. Some people put it on a piece of bread. Some people mix it in with peanut butter or oatmeal. It really doesn't matter how the bird ingests it. The big point is to thin it out so that it can be put on or in whatever is used. Dave <br><br>Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/09/26 18:45

Since she'll be in a car for a while, she'll be a little shell shocked going from a breeder to a journey to an airport to a distant drive in a car, it would be best to put her into the cage and let her relax and calm down and let her check out the cage and the accessories. You can talk to her but she'll need a some space and time to catch her own breath. No, you shouldn't leave the door open for a few days. No, you shouldn't immediately put her on a playstand. She needs to thoroughly check out things from a safe distance while in a safe place ( cage ). Let her get used to your hands being around but no hugs or scratches for a few days. Taking her out of the cage will cause her to jump off your hand onto the floor since she won't know how to fly. After a few days, you can put your fingers near her until she gets used to them. Forcing yourself on her will only cause her to bite you and you don'y wanna start off on the wrong foot. Basically, it'll be a few days before she starts to feel comfortable enough to interact with you and only in baby steps. There is no set amount of time in which this all happens so don't put any time limits on anything. Birds are individuals and they'll do things only when they're good and ready. Dave

WHY DID THE CHICKEN CROSS THE ROAD======================================== PAT BUCHANAN To steal a job from a decent, hardworking American. JERRY FALWELL Because the chicken was gay! Isn't it obvious? Can't you People see the plain truth in front of your face? The chicken was going To the "other side." That's what "they" call it - the "other side." Yes, my friends, that chicken is gay. And, if you eat that chicken, you Will become gay too.I say we boycott all chickens until we sort out this Abomination that the liberal media whitewashes with seemingly harmless phrases Like "the other side." That chicken should not be free to cross the road. It's as Plain and simple as that. DR. SEUSS Did the chicken cross the road? Did he cross it with a toad? Yes! The chicken crossed the road, but why it crossed, I've not been told! ERNEST HEMINGWAY To die. In the rain. Alone. REV. JESSE JACKSON I envision a world where all chickens will be free to Cross roads without having their motives called into question. GRANDPA In my day, we didn't ask why the chicken crossed the Road. Someone told us that the chicken crossed the road, and that was good Enough for us. ARISTOTLE It is the nature of chickens to cross the road. KARL MARX It was a historical inevitability that the chicken would Cross the road. GLORIA STEINEM To escape the domination of men and achieve equality. CONFUCIUS Because the road could not cross the chicken. SADDAM HUSSEIN This was an unprovoked act of rebellion by the chicken; we Were quite justified in dropping 50 tons of nerve gas on it. RONALD REAGAN What chicken? DAN QUAYLE I believe that's spelled R-O-d-e. CAPTAIN JAMES T. KIRK To boldly go where no chicken has gone before. FOX MULDER You saw it cross the road with your own eyes. How many More chickens have to cross before you believe it? TONY SOPRANO F*** the f****** chicken, and the f****** road, you f***! FREUD The fact that you are at all concerned that the chicken Crossed the road reveals your underlying sexual insecurity. BILL GATES The question is no longer relevant. I have just released Chicken 2000, which will not only cross roads, but will lay eggs, file Your important documents, and balance your checkbook - and Chickenet Explorer is an inextricable part of Chicken2000. EINSTEIN Did the chicken really cross the road or did the road move Beneath the chicken? BILL CLINTON I did not cross the road with THAT chicken. And, what do You mean by "chicken"? Could you define "chicken" please? GEORGE W. BUSH I don't think I should have to answer that question. LOUIS FARRAKHAN The road, you see, being black asphalt, represents the Black man. The chicken as white meat represents the white man, so The "white man" crossed the "black man" in order to trample him and keep him down. YASSIR ARAFAT To build settlements in our homeland. THE BIBLE And God came down from the heavens, and He said unto the Chicken, "Thou shalt cross the road." And the chicken crossed the road, And there was much rejoicing. COLONEL SANDERS I missed one?

If no one minds I'd like to say a few things concerning Palm Oil and Aloe Juice, First off, I agree 1000% with Dan. Even though many birds don't like being cleaned, as he said """""The bottom line is, whether they like it or not, it's gonna happen""""" Because birds are difficult, some people sort of bypass thorough cleaning. Some birds bite and don't like being cleaned which is understandable. Not everyone is willing to be nipped at. Also understandable. I feel the same as Dan. A long time ago, I realized that I had to bypass their attitude and do what they didn't like. To be truthful, I' ve taken bites which doesn't bother me cause I'm used to getting bitten at times.I developed my own cleaning method and it works both for me and my birds. Eventually, the biting became just half hearted squawks and even that has lessened.Others have methods that work for them. No matter how pissed off my birds seemed to get, when I perched them after a bath, they all seemed like each had smoked a high quality joint and were in La La land. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Red Palm Oil.......there is no shelf life. It will always stay good until the last drop (Copyright--Maxwell House Coffee) I included a picture of what I do. I Buy 16 ounce jars from a vitamin/health food dealer. The price is $5.99 per bottle. Shipping is a flat $1.00 per bottle. The company I 've dealt with for years is called Swanson Health Products. The place can be looked up on the PC and the item plus price can be seen. The reason it lasts a long time is because very little is used. Some feed it every day..some feed it 2 or 3 times a week. It really doesn't matter. I would recommend that if someone has a bird who has chronic feather problems it should be used with each feeding. This is what I do---the picture will help I take an empty seasoning bottle, scrub it out, and fill it up with oil. I put the large bottle away. After about 2 days, you'll see the oil in the seasoning bottle start to get thick and change into a bland orange color. I then take the seasoning bottle and put it in the microwave for about 30 to 45 seconds until the oil changes back to red and can be seen through the bottle. The oil is very thin at that point. In the picture you see a paint brush...I take the pointed end and stick it in the oil and let it drip out (15 to 20 drops) onto a small amount of pellets. The pellets absorb the oil. Eventually, the bird eats the pellets. Voila! The bird has palm oil in it's system. If there is any confusion about the size of the seasoning bottle, please contact Grandpa Joe on this board. He's a professional chef. PS-a side note ..I'm gonna admit it..I'm the man that Judygram is having a torrid affair with. She's too shy to speak about the exotic things we've experienced so far. YES definitely, Judy is an excellent teacher but as you know, it takes two to tango so I'll tell you right now..Im an excellent student. I had no inhibitions and that made her lessons so successful. Dave Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/09/26 00:16 Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/09/26 01:32<br><br>Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/09/26 01:34

You can 1--first mist with water then with aloe or 2--just mist him with the aloe What determines how you do it has to do with how dusty your bird is and how often he/she is bathed. If a bird has a lot of dander on him/her then it's best to first bathe or mist the bird with waqter to get it's regular dust/dirt off. After that, using the aloe is good and more effective. As far as first cleaning the excess dirt off--remember that when the aloe juice is applied, after some time has passed, the bird will start preening the feathers and I'm sure you don't want him/her running dusty feathers topped off with aloe through the beak. As far as a subsitute for palm oil--there is no substitute. African greys eat palm nuts and palm oil in their native habitat. In the wild, it's one of their staple foods. I see that you don't live in the US. There are many places where it can be ordered online. The two major countries that I know who do this is the US and the UK. You can order it from the US outlets but I have no idea about shipping outside the US. So this what you can try...... Type in HEALTH FOOD STORES IN THE UK. Check out the different links. If you find an area on that store's page that lets you type in a certain item, then type in RED PALM OIL If they do sell it you'll see the price plus shipping and handling. If you want to order it in the US, then I can supply you with an excellent outlet to buy it from but again, I'm not sure about their shipping charges outside of the US. It might be worth looking into because one 16 ounce bottle of palm oil will last a person who has 2 greys at least 1 1/2 yrs. Very little is used and it doesn't have to be given at each feeding. Twice a week is fine. One of the more important ingredients of palm oil is VITAMIN D3 (not VIT D) D3 is what a bird gets when he/she is in the outdoors in the sun with no windows blocking. Today's windows don't allow D3 through because of their filtering systems. Dave

I agree with xxbeccyxx. Most baby toys are extremely hard. Most parrots can't break them. They're made so that babies can put them in their mouth. TOYS R US has a good selection..all colors, sizes, shapes. No Barbie or Ken dolls though. They're too explicit and might give birds ideas. Dave<br><br>Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/09/24 01:44

I feel that it's best to use full strength. The less diluted, the better it is. If you check other posts in this thread, you'll see that lately, people tried it on their parrots and so far, no one has problems. It won't hurt the bird. If the plucking you're talking about has to do with molting, well that's par for the course. Some birds lose more feathers during molting season than others do. It all has to do with the individual bird. If he refeathers himself after molting then there doesn't seem to be a problem. As far as putting it in her water, it's not necessary. For birds, it has it's best effect externally on as many feathers and especially on as much skin as possible. I personally don't put anything in my birds' water because different things can contaminate water including vitamins or any other additives. I really feel that bird booklets that say it's alright to put additives or vitamins in water are misleading the public especially for people who own budgies, canaries and finches and other softbills. Water gets tainted by these things. It's up to you though. Dave

I can see that you really haven't checked out your girlfriend thoroughly. You're gonna marry her? You might rethink that until you know the whole story. Yeah, lots of people here communicate with each other but it seems that when she and Dan do the talking, they seem to be using secret words between them that only they can understand. Don't really know if it's important but Dan has a reputation as a charming *lady's man* and no one would want your girlfriend falling into his old familiar trap that others know oh so well. At times he's been known to discard women after getting bored. Better safe than sorry. Dave

Hi Sorry about your problem. I doubt that you'll get specific info applying to your bird on any board that can't actually see the problem. Your bird's problem should immediately be checked out by a vet. Time is of the utmost right now. You didn't mention the age. You didn't mention whether the bird was fully weaned when you got him. It might be a good idea to find out what it's previous diet was. It might be intestional. It might be a bad case of diarhhea which could cause loose bowel movement. What you do have in your favor is the fact that you just brought the bird home. many new birds won't eat when they arrive until they feel comfortable which might take a few days. Food really isn't as important right now. Water is. A loose bowel movement can be caused by nervousness and being in a strange place with strange surroundings and new people. Another thing you have in your favor is that the bird is friendly and outgoing. Intestional or diarhhea problems usually can be seen because the bird goes into a corner and fluffs up and sleeps alot. Even people won't eat and will stay quiet and moody when they're feeling under the weather. Even though I've seen this often, if you are a new bird owner with no previous experience, it's best to go to an avian vet to make yourself feel better. I could say that it isn't important but I DO know you need peace of mind. Go to the vet. Make friends with the vet so that he/she will have a record of your bird Dave

If I did that I would have to give more detailed information so that people would know what to do, how to do it and what is actually happening when they do it. AND, I haven't the slightest idea on how to publish something here. First, I would have to contact my agent. I realize that he'll notify his lawyer so that papers will have to drawn up. Negotiating a proper fee plus the royalities would have to be talked about between opposing counsels. The publication date will have to be set. Any book signing will be listed as well as travel dates and locations of appearances plus the length of time spent at each session. Dave

Having had the bird for such a short time, a person or persons shouldn't make permanent judgments yet. The bird is a baby and he's about to start a life with people in a new home New bird owners should share in the handling and basic chores with the grey in whatever way you can. That prevents the grey from forming a specific attachment to any one person. That's something people want to avoid especially in the future. In my house to this day my wife and I share all things concerning changing and giving and cleaning food dishes, cleaning out the cages, giving treats, having them on our hands and arms, walking around with them, letting them out of the cage, putting them back in the cage, both of us saying 'good night' at night. Each of my greys has it's own special way of saying 'good night'. 1 will speak it--1 will squeek it---1 will make a kissing sound. Each has a special way they kiss me and another way for my wife. We do this every night together. In other words Gene ( wife) and I are equal in every way to them. There are no favorites. This process is important because as they get older, they will bite the person who has had nothing to do with rearing the grey. It doesn't have to be as extensive as I described but both of the owners should be involved in different things. My greys like me in certain ways and different ways for my wife. One particular bird likes me to scratch it's head but not my wife. The same bird likes his back petted and neck scratched but not by me. Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/09/23 02:08<br><br>Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/09/23 02:10