Dave007

The next time you have to use that carrying case, have you and and another person deal with the situation. That confuses the bird and it'll help you grab the bird even if it's in an awkward way. Try not to use gloves. That's something they WILL remember for a while afterward. No, he hasn't switched over to the tech. He was nervous and even the vet could see that the bird would be hard to handle so he tranquilized him. Birds don't switch affections so quickly and never when he/she is visiting a place and person. Don't put a carrier near the bird to see. It's not a cage he'll be living in. Compare that to a playstand--you take a playstand and put it near his cage. He constantly checks it out but doesn't go on it. You decide to put him, on it and he flies away.If you're having a hard time getting him out of his cage simply use a small perch instead of your hand. Put him on the floor between you and the person. Have the other person hold a towel, quickly put it around him and slip him into the carrier. When coming home, open his regular cage door, put open carrier door against open cage door and let him come out on his own. Because he's pissed at you for taking him out, the last thing he wants to do is go through more handling to back in the cage. He'll stay pissed off for a while--could be 2 days or 2-3 weeks.The numbers vary. Depends upon the bird. Just ignore him and he'll come around to his regular routine. Birds don't hold grudges and just like humans, they don't fall in love with their doctors and nurses.<br><br>Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/12/01 19:44

You can use the length of anything you want. Only you know your grey's capabilities. Some people start with short distances, some with longer distances. I only suggested 4 to 5 ft. because I haven't the slightest idea about how clumsy or uncoordinated he is. Only you know that. I only gave you a plan of action based upon the age of your bird. Young birds are easier to work with because they still have a little fear in them. An adult bird doesn't. Just try to substitute yourself instead of walls. At first,Keep your arm horozontil with your upper chest area. Eventually, your arm will look good to him. Your arm will be his eventual perch and it doesn't matter how thick or big your arm is. Also, I'll repeat..don't feed him things as treats. Just give him somethiong for trying. Eventually, your arm and those nuts you're holding will be a very good inducement as far as where to land. You can have slight variations on what you wanna do. Only you know your bird. I was just trying to give you a method that I've used with consistant success. PS--don't be afraid of him crashing into you. You're much softer than a wall and concerning your body, there's many more things to grab on to. Try not to show fear. He won't bite you. The act of flying to you will distract him from biting you. He'll actually be happy.<br><br>Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/12/01 01:33

Unfortunately, it's gonna take a lot of work and there's always the chance that it won't work. What your bird must have first is developed flight wings. Your bird is a very mature bird that hasn't ever developed flight coordination for most of it's life. What it has developed is the art of very short flying but lack of manuvering. Very true except for one thing---All of that was learned with clipped wings, not flight wings. There'a big difference between the two What he's doing right now is called *desperation* flight. It's the act of getting ready to fly but having no idea where to go and land when in the air. Hence, the crashing into walls, curtains occurs. The act of controlled flight must be learned in an enclosed room with you using and enticing your bird to fly onto you over and over and over. Eventually, you would make that distance farther away. You should start with 4 to 5 feet away. Get on your knees. You need to slightly block his flight with your arm. You should be the item that he crashes into. Eventually, he'll land on your arm. Before lengthing the distance, make sure that he's consistant. Take some walnuts and break them up, keep them in your hand. First, give him 1 or 2 small pieces. Step back but let him see the nuts in your hand. Entice him with the nut. *Desperation* flight will start. Don't use those nuts as a reward. Every time he tries to come to you and either fails or succeeds, give a little piece of nut. What you're doing is giving a nut to him for even trying to fly. In other words effort. All of this must be done in an enclosed area preferably with a soft rug or carpet on the floor. It'll take a long time but you have to realize that 13 yrs is a long time undue. This is somewhat the same method that's used by conservation groups that travel around to different bird shows with predatory hunters such as eagles, hawks, falcons, owls,peregrines and others hunting species. Most of those predatory animals can't live in the wild anymore because of partial damage to the body such as wing damage, partial claw or leg problems, being blind in one eye etc. These demonstrations are held in large areas about half the size of an indoor airport hangar. One person is in the rear of the auditorium and one in front of the seated audience. On Q, the bird flies back and forth to each person. The handler always gives the bird a little of something to eat each time it goes back and forth but it isn't given as a treat.Then the handler explains the type of bird it is to the audience and gives history on the species but all of those birds have to learn how to fly and land in the same place. In your situation, that place is your arm, not wrist. The wrist comes later when the bird feels sure of landing on your arm and sure of itself. Wrist landing doesn't have to be taught. When a large area is finally opened up to him, you need to keep a close eye on his body language when it looks like he's ready to take off. You must alway be the target until he finally lands on the floor without going into walls. Eventually, you will always be the target . You're the one with the nuts. Always have a small bowl of bits of nuts around. Always give him some for his effort. It's gonna take a while. You need patience, patience, patience. Put no time limits on when YOU think the the bird should accomplish this. Remember, he's 13 yrs old. PS--if he doesn't like walnuts, use some other kind that he likes and usually looks forward to in everyday life. Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/12/01 00:20 Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/12/01 00:25 Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/12/01 00:57<br><br>Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/12/01 01:01

Shame, shame, shame About 6 mts ago in NY, There is a very well known pet shop in Manhattan that was robbed of about $30,000 worth of parrots. All species of parrots. It made TV and newspapers. Supposedly, different actors also shop there and have purchased very expensive birds and cages and accessories.

"""""And I assume you speak from experience, Dave,""""" Many experiences

"""""She will not be able to reach those herself. That's where you come in to help preen those feathers when they're ready."""""" In my opinion, the last thing I would tell a person to do is help the bird along when feathers are about to come in or just starting to come in. The reason is that the bird is already naturally uncomfortable and some are short tempered during a molting season. I also wouldn't recommend giving that advice to a person I didn't know cause I don't know how brave or knowledgeable the person is when messing around with undeveloped feather areas. All a person has to do is touch and move that shaft in the wrong direction, even the TINIEST or SLIGHTEST wrong direction and BANG, there's a huge possibility that the bird will instantly bite. It doesn't take much to set the bird off when molting with people feeling around those irritated areas. They're already in a pissed off mood.Some birds molt out evenly and it doesn't really look too drastic. Others molt out unevenly and it looks terrible, especially the neck and lower rear part of the head. That's no reason to be grabbing those ares to assist them. The feathers will still come ineventually.One of the worst things to do with a molting bird is to pet the exposed pin shafts in the reverse direction ( ex--back of neck upward towards the head). BANG, another bite is around the corner. I'm sure that in the past, some people here have experienced that situation and believe me, it hurts.<br><br>Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/11/29 19:26

Why are you sorry ? Did you say something bad. I read it and it sounded okay to me. Well anyway, the juice..as people have said you can use the juice without any baths. It doesn't instantly cure plucking but it will soothe a bird's skin not as dry as it normally is. The dryness causes scratching and plucking. The best way to use the juice is written below. Many people as well as myself use the juice all the time. You can never worry about using to much. find that the best method for using this product is through a mister/sprayer. The juice can be cold or room temperature. I prefer cold cause my birds prefer baths and getting misted with cold fluid so I store the jug in the fridge and just pour it into the mister. There's been discussion about percentages of juice to water. I prefer full strength and I know it can't harm the birds. I've used it full strength for years. The most important parts of a grey's body that should be thoroughly soaked are 1--the inner part of the wing where it meets the body. That body area should be sprayed very well. 2--all over the breast area starting from the neck all the way down to the vent area. All of the above areas aren't water proof so the juice should soak in immediately 3--the feathers covering each leg. 4--the base of the upper neck /lower back of the head. Even when giving a bird a good misting with plain water, the same method and areas should be soaked. As far as when to use it, I use it all the time and I also bathe my birds in the sink with water but your bird doesn't need to be bathed first. It works on the skin the way hand cream works on a woman's hands. When a woman puts on the hand cream, it immediately sinks into the skin leaving the hands nice and soft which the husband or boyfriend enjoys. A grey doesn't have to have a feather or skin problem. People here use it on their birdsand those birds have never had any feather problems in the past. Just remember the secret to success is to make sure that the bird gets soaked to the skin and make sure you don't use a towel or hair dryer. Let the grey stay soaked so it will work it's way into the skin. The same thing applies to bathing with water.--hope this helps.

Hi Lynda Welcome to the board. It's great to hear that a bird has been adopted. Finally, a good home is in the future. Hope you have a good time here.

I haven't used Prozac before. First time I heard that it was used. Concerning the plucking..it isn't unusual for a grey to start plucking if it's out of cage time has be drastically shortened. 8 hours to 20 minutes is drastic. It's good that she seems to have lessened the plucking now. Many people aren't that lucky. I can tell you that the plucked feathers are probably take a long time to grow back. First the white basic downy feathers have to come in. Then the outer grey feathers will come in on top of the downy feathers. All of this takes time and also has to do with how drastic the plucking was. Some lightly pluck, some really mess themselves up. After the breast/neck area, the next areas tobe plucked are usually the flight wing feathers or tail feathers but it's stopped now. Get back to his regular out of time routine as best as you can. You can give toys but I feel the best thing to give as far as toys would be small pieces of wood that she can vent her frustrations on the wood. many greys like wood and it should be a staple along with other toys. They like to destroy wood. As far as the drugs..Keep in touch with your vet and tell him about progress or no progress. As far as extra feathers being pulled, you'll just have to examine the bottom of the cage daily. Lightly blow the feathers to the side of the cage and see if there's new ones on the cage floor. A little bit of Palm oil mixed in with their food ( preferably on pellets will also be good for future feathers. PS--Personally, I wouldn't vacuum out the cage to clear new feathers that might be plucked cause it'll scare the bird even if the bird is away from the cage. Right now, your grey is very hyper,and the last thing she needs right now is to get more nervous. Try to get back to basic routines. Be relaxed around her and don't make a big deal with the plucking around her. Another PS---3 weeks isn't a lot of time concerning anything a grey does. They're creatures of habit. Once they start something, they'll continue and gradually stop so expect some more plucking. Greys don't usually get aggressive with the owners when a bad change is made in their lives. Instead, they decide to take it out on themselves and since greys are known to be one of the worst pluckers around, second only to cockatoos, changes can make them self mutilate. If your grey wasn't a plucker before your problems started, more than likely she'l eventually go back to her old ways. Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/11/28 18:36<br><br>Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/11/28 18:52

Dan If you do decide to pet him/her you'll excite the bird even more( like a pre orgasm) and you won't be able to provide it. The bird will be left frustrated. There's a chance that being hung up like that will cause the bird to start plucking afterward and also as you continue to rub the bird and it gets more aroused and will hold on tighter and when you feel that it's time to go back to the cage, there's a chance that the bird will bite. Very young people have gone through that. You remember, right? Got very pissed off, right? Really didn't really have good feelings about her anymore, right? Was always thinking " what did I do, I don't deserve that!!" Then the middle finger was displayed, Right?? SO, quietly put the bird down, don't get upset or angry, walk away and go have a drink or a cig or whatever else you have available for a couple of minutes and then go back to the bird and do what you want to. By that time, the excitement and desire do do that again will have passed. Nature is what caused that to happen in the first place.<br><br>Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/11/28 01:17

I'm with LMG--That's what I do except I don't use disinfectant. I put warm water on them, push off the excess lumpy dumpys with my hqnd and then take a rough sponge and wipe off the rest and rinse. I do it on playstands, cage perches and whatever else the birds own that they take a dump on. PS--I prefer using the Olay soap as opposed to Camay or Jergens soaps because the birds have such delicate claws and legs,especially my female greys. I wouldn't wanna upset them. The males are also aware of what the females have on.<br><br>Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/11/27 22:18

Teko You can try this out but I'll tell you before hand that it isn't a quick fix. It'll take time. I don't know of a lot of quick fixes concerning serious parrot problems. You say that he's lately developed this ear biting so apparently, this is a relatively new phase. Start trying to substitute your arm or wrist area when he's gonna fly to you. It seems that parrots enjoy the act of flying to a guaranteed landing area constantly. Obviously, your bird has that natural tendency to take off and land on your shoulder. Many people pull their hair out trying all sorts of things just to make them fly to a person. That too is a long drawn out job. Your bird has the natural ability and desire to do the opposite. He also enjoys doing it. When you hear or see him getting ready to dive bomb you, immediately put your arm in the same general area. Make your arm or wrist the target. Make sure that no matter what, you keep your arm there so that your arm looks like a safe landing strip. Try not to be afraid of a flying bird coming towards you. Believe it or not, it works but it has to be repetitive until it's the arm that he's looking for. Redo this over and over. Divert his attention to the landing strip. It's gonna be much easier for him to land on your arm if you keep that arm strong and not falter by shaking it and making him insecure about footing. It takes a while though. You've heard of Clicker Training?? Well, what I just described is a bit like that training. Think about it. I've done it with birds and they went from destructive to constructive. PS---I've mainly done this exercise with adult birds that were set in their ways but they still had the ability to change and younger birds are definitely easier to work with. Another PS---The last bird I did this with was one that constantly flew onto the person's head ( husband and son) and tried to pull out chunks of hair. For a while the bird was successful but now, it looks forward to flying to the owner's arm, not the head or hair. The bird enjoys it. Give a tiny reward each time (bits and pieces of nuts) Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/11/27 21:50 Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/11/27 22:00<br><br>Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/11/27 23:39

Don't worry about the videos and pictures as long as you're the one that's paying for all of that battery power.{Feel-good-000200BB}

I also disagree with you . I don't know what you mean *to be here to oversee*. It sounds like you would be giving the final opinion as to how to deal with this for whatever that's worth. You were away, you came back and then you had time to study the whole thread, the replies, the reactions most of which were 5 days ago. The people here responded quickly and didn't analyze what was going on because they were responsible enough to react quickly on the side of caution. In an area where the main lines of communication are through a keyboard, certain things are a no-no on certain types of boards. """new members could read it and think it was a normal thing to "swat" your bird,"""" That's why people quickly reacted the way they did and they really weren't worried about what and how this person would feel. I could care less about what she thinks or feels. You're so sure that this person was just being sarcastic? The people here didn't sit back and try to figure out the tone of the post before responding nor are they supposed to. """"you are very right in that new members could read it and think it was a normal thing to "swat" your bird,""""' It's not new members, it's new novice bird owners or would be bird owners that people were thinking about. I'm a relatively new member and I have more than 20 yrs of experience with parrots so being new means nothing. You think that what she said was so over the top as to be judged ridiculous? Ever go to a bird shelter or bird rescue service? I have many, many times. The birds there don't just have a broken wing, many times they're missing a wing. Some birds just don't have a black or swollen eye, some have lost an eye. Some have broken legs that can't be fixed anymore. Most of those birds in shelters/rescues that have broken parts got them from owners who aren't, weren't and never will be sorry. I could describe other things but I wouldn't want your stomach to get upset. If this person is so damned sorry about upsetting people, she had the means to say so. Instead she decided to tell people that she couldn't believe that people would take her seriously. What gives her the right to decide how people should interpret something? What's better, take it seriously and respond or sit back and decide whether the person was being sarcastic? Maybe you've never seen posts like that on boards. I have and most people react with her hearts and feelings instead of being analytic about it. Since it was you that brought the word *moderator* into the mix, maybe instead of hoping a member will come back and to top it off, asking her to come back, maybe you should think about giving a big thumbs up and a big round of applause to all the people who reacted quickly and who went OVER THE TOP concerning that post. The people here were protecting the integrity of the board, not the art of sarcasm. Understand that there are many hurtful people that congregate on animal boards and on those same boards there are many naive people that will take things seriously. I was a moderator on 2 different boards and what was most important to me was that smartass people should'nt take things for granted when other people were involved. Not everyone is able to disect the written word. As a mod, I was never heavy on the delete or ban button but I sure as hell warned certain people that future bullshit wouldn't be tolerated. I never really cared whether they left nor did I ever ask them to come back if they left. Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/11/27 04:18<br><br>Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/11/27 05:59

Dropping Wings--Sexual Urges Scenarios--A person goes to their grey either in or out of the cage and asks the bird to *step up*. The bird does so and out of nowhere,immediately, each wing slightly spreads and drops down and covers the complete sides of his/her body. Sometimes, the wings drop so low that even the legs can't be seen. The bird puffs up the feathers on it's head and starts to huff or puff or both. The sound is very low. The bird tries to bring it's feathers down to cover the hand it's standing on. The feathers remain downn. It really doesn't want to get off the hand. Basically, it looks like the bird is nuzzling which is exactly what it's doing. Baby birds, immature and mature birds do that frequently with their owners. The worst thing to do is pet the bird in ANY area. The bird will huff a little faster meaning that it's getting abit more aroused. Put the bird back in or on the cage. If the bird won't let go (which happens many times), instead of moving the bird forward to a perch, put your hand behind the perch and move your hand forward towards yourself. The bird will hop off onto the perch. Walk away for a couple of minutes. More than likely, if you go back to him/her and ask the bird to step up,the bird will step up and he/she won't repeat the wing dropping. Greys do this quite often and never get upset by that. Nature is telling them to do that. A bird doesn't have to be sexually mature when doing this. All age birds do this. All of this can also happen to relaxed birds that might be on someone's lap/knee/arm/fist sitting on a chair/couch watching TV. Not to worry, just put the bird away from you for a couple of minutes and then reconnect with the bird if you want to. Rest assured that the bird is telling you that you're providing comfort and good feelings towards him/her. Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/11/27 04:03 Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/11/27 04:12<br><br>Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/11/27 05:16

If you aren't familiar with all the different things that greys can possibly do, then you should go to the vet quickly. Only you can see how extremely different he is. Answers given here would only be guesses cause what you think is bad might not be or it could be the other way around. Since this might be a health problem, you need a vet. A parrot can get ill and a person won't even notice it until the problem is serious. Your grey constantly staying in one corner of the cage is a good enough reason to see a vet, especially if your grey is normally outgoing.

No cupboard, just a couple of boards that I keep bird supplies on. They flew over when I walked away. They thought there was some food up there. They didn't see me but I saw them and caught them on camera.<br><br>Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/11/26 00:11

This is Smokey and Jazz smooching on the sly <br><br>Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/11/25 22:47

Well, you'll have start putting out guidelines and rules concerning your Grey now while the time is easy to accomplish it. If you let him start nibbling on areas of you there's gonna come that time when the biting will be harder and he'll eventually try out other places on you. Your cuddly grey won't remain cuddly as it gets older. That's the way greys are. It soon will become more independent and will start to be aloof which is a grey's nature and it'll have nothing to do with how it feels about you. Many people get disturbed when that time comes. The grey starts to distance itself from the owner periodically and people blame themselves which is the wrong thing to feel. Ever hear of the Ornary Ones and the Terrible Twos? As far as that cage, it also has to do with the above. That cage will soon become it's area to be aloof and independent. He'll start to decorate that cage and make it his own private personal area AND only HIS personal area. That'll take a while but it will definitely happen. They'll be times when he won't even wanna come out the cage. He'll want to stare into space in his own little world.That also is in the grey's nature and that too disturbs people. Bottom line, curb the biting. Discourage it. It might be fun now until he knows his own capabilities. The biting will become annoying and somewhat painful.<br><br>Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/11/25 21:23

I agree with your vet. I know people have had success with their birds on shoulders but there's many if not more that have opposite results and when a bird is sure of itself on the shoulder, it's hard to change the bird's attitude. Baby birds and adult birds can't be compared as far as shoulders go. Their personalities are different. No matter how sweet, kind, loveable, cute and adorable your grey is right now, if he gets the idea that he can go on your shoulder, he'she might give you an absolutely free-of-charge lobe piercing for your next set of new earrings mostly from an unforeseen accident or sudden movement. They might also bite your cheek or neck. I have a friend who has an 12 yr old macaw. The bird was always on his shoulder for years. One dayan accident happened. My buddy has a 2 inch scar on his face now. He needed 2 stitches. If you wear a chain on your neck, they're able to snap and break it without even trying hard. They love shiny jewelry. This goes for your husband too because as far as ear lobes go, there is no sexual preference. Another reason for not doing the shoulder thing is that if you use some sort of hair grooming item in your hair, they will get to it because they love to preen hair. If they do get to that cosmetic, they might swallow it and that's a no no. They might also develop a taste for collars on shirts and chew them up. Another thing about the shoulder is that when he's developed into an agile, sure of itself type bird and it comes time that you don't want him there but they wanna stay there,they will give you a struggle when you try to catch him. They'll race over to the other shoulder back and forth behind your back and you can't see the bird behind you and they might bite if you persist. Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/11/25 18:40<br><br>Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/11/25 18:50

It really depends upon how close he was to molting out (losing) those feathers that were clipped. If the clipped wings were new wings that had just grown in, it might take about a 6,7,8 mts or longer before a new set appears evenly. If they were ready to come out before you clipped, the time line would be shorter. Another reason they take long to grow out is because the flight feathers and the tail feathers are the only ones that periodically fall out one or two at a time and that can happen at any time of the year no matter what the weather is so growing back has an unknown time limit. No one knows when those flight feathers will fall out. The rest of a bird's feathers pretty much fall out at the same time of the year and immediately grow back quickly. It sounds like the clip was a bit on the drastic side. In the future, if you really have to have your bird clipped, go to an avian vet to have it done and before you do that, make sure that all the feathers have grown back in. Some of the other things that you mention also happen to other bird owners ie. dogs and birds being friends. You've had him a short time, he's an adult bird with some set habits and only trial and error and time is gonna help you and hubby to learn those habits. In my opinion, you're very lucky. That bird doesn't sound like it has many serious problems. Always ask questions here about your bird and it's progress.<br><br>Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/11/24 21:15

A VERY HEALTHY ITEM TO GIVE YOUR GREY If anyone has turkey or chicken leftovers from thanksgiving, take the bone out of the wing that has knuckles on either side .. Scrub the bone down and take away any grizzle that's on it. Give the bone to your bird. Many greys enjoy eating the knuckles and the interior of the bone. The bone is loaded with calcium. Probably, your bird with chew the whole bone until it looks like dust. This can be done in the future anytime you want to when having having chicken. The only thing is to not use fried chicken wings. Baked or boiled chicken is perfect. I've given them to all my greys and also my quakers for years. They get excited as I approach them with the bones.<br><br>Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/11/24 19:51

Adele No matter how you feel, please take into consideration that many people here are very sensitive to cruelty to ANY types of animals whether it's a joke or not. You're hitting a very sore spot in the hearts of people here. Grow up and don't make the same mistake on other animal boards. Birds (outdoors or indoors)aren't to be swatted at like mosquitos. Whatever Dan said to you was because he's an honorable man who cares about creatures<br><br>Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/11/23 22:04

IN CASE ANYONE HERE WAS READING ANY RESPONSE IN THIS THREAD FROM ADELE, IT WAS ALL A JOKE SO DON'T TAKE IT SERIOUSLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<br><br>Post edited by: MrSpock, at: 2007/11/23 21:51

1. ""Will a Timneh mate with a Congo?"" No 2. ""Why wouldn't a Red Wing Macaw breed with a Green Wing?"" A Green Wing Macaw won't mate with a Red Wing Macaw because there's no such thing as a Red Wing Macaw. 3. Parrots can't be compared to chickens.