Dave007

One other thing concerning dirt. You might be also referring to the dust and dander and feathers that's all over the place. When all of those very light weight feathers are in the tray and it time to take out the tray to change the paper, take a mister and very slightly spray a few times over the feathers from about 12 inches away in the tray. That will make the feathers heavy and they won't fly all over the place when you're moving the tray.

You should understand something that specifically has to do with greys..they're well known to not like children right away. Children are too irractic and fast for greys. The most important thing to know now is that your grey is a face biter. Some never get to that point but many others do so now is the time for your child to stop with the mouth to beak kissing. That also happens with greys that allowed on shoulders. Some will stay there with no problems while others will go after jewelry, hair, clothing collars, ear lobes etc. When a grey does that it's time to stop the shoulder thing cause that's a habit they won't change.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2008/04/10 19:41

Tracy Well, not to worry. Many love the cold water but there are many that don't. I know that my greys don't tolerate tepid water. My mistake. I should have added that concerning tepid water. What's important with your birds is that they like getting wet no matter what the temperature is. Nothing like having clean feathers. When the feathers molt and fly around the house and you need to vacuum, just think about the very clear, clean dust that'll go up your nose. It's a good feeling, right? I apologise.

The magic words ""Whether he likes it or not it is good for him""" They do need baths, they won't like it but they will hold no grudges. In time,after many times he'll expect it and put up with it. The other magic words """"Having the mist cold seems to be more popular with our babies. I keep my bottle in the fridge. """" They do prefer cold water as opposed to room temp water. I'll add one other thing..Even adult greys like colder water.

Ok, this is how it works. You just clicked on new topic and you put in New to Forums and then you said things. So, other people here are gonna read what you just said just like I just did and they're gonna reply to you. If you have questions just click on African Grey, just like you did. Put a little statement or question in and people will read it and many people will reply answer your questions. You might get different answers to your questions but in general the answers you get will be generally correct because people are telling you about what they did or saw or tell you the results of similar things you just asked. Now, in that same area wherwe the replies are, you can also put in another reply to what other people just said. It's like a continuing story. Each person's reply is like a little chapter in that story. I said go to african grey section. Now, you might put it a topic that actually goes in another section but you shjouldn't worry about that cause there's people that can take your post and all of the replies and put it in the right section. There's al;ways a notification on the screen that tells you where the whole thread went to. Don't worry about making mistakes--everyone does. When you get a chance click on all the different topics and check out what all the people say about the loads of questions there. If you wanna add to something just click REPLY in the thread, add what you want and then click submit. Your post becomes part of the thread. Go wherever you like. There's millions of things that are discussed. Books are good but discussions are also valuable.As far as experience here, the people have all ranges of expeniences--some small, medium and large. Everything that all the people say is good reading. Hope this helps.--By the way, there's a section called WELCOME and if you feel like introducing yourself, that's the place to do. PS--welcome to the board<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2008/04/09 22:30

Probably a male and female??? You're not sure? Hens can be together and lay eggs with no male around. You don't have any type of nesting and box in the cage and it's too late to put one in. Dump the broken egg. Leave the bird that laid the egg in the same cage. Remove the other bird to another cage. Expect the bird to lay a couple of more eggs. Let her sit on or stay by the eggs for approx 30 days or until she shows absolutely no interest in them. Then remove them. You should think about keeping those birds apart permanently especially if they're male and female. Birds don't need to be in the same cage in order to be friends.

Well, sometimes, you have to do tough things that might not make you feel good and will anger your bird but you've got a serious problem here in that the skin has to be touched to be treated. Probably, you'll even get bitten. That goes hand in hand with parrot keeping Here's one way to try... 1--wrap a towel around him and have a person hold him. 2-- Leave some raw irritated area exposed. 3---Put the gel on that area 4---Unwrap the towel and give him a nut or something he likes 5-- rewrap the towel again leaving another exposed area and put the gel on etc etc.. Do it as many times as you can. Give a nut each time you unwrap him. Do it the next day and the next day and the next day. Expect the bird to be angry for a while each day. That's normal. Nothing can stop a bird from being angry but they don't hold grudges. Expect the bird to scream and squawk. They all do. It'll be scary for you but at least you're being told what will happen...no surprises As far as having a pretty bird, that's premature to say because if a serious plucker eventually stops there's a very good chance that the bird will look pretty much normal within 1 to 1 1/2 yrs.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2008/04/07 01:34

When certain things have to be done and your bird is pushing himself on you and interfering with what chores you must do such as studying or PC work or doing hoochy cooing, you need to use that cage now while your bird is still young. The cage isn't as bad as you think. He lives there and plays there and eats there and sleeps there. If your bird is becoming a pain in the ass now, he'll be a bigger pain in the future if he's not used to doing what you want done and a cage serves many purposes.

Not for nothing but I wouldn't put palm oil onthe bird's skin or feathers. Greasy skin and feathers can cause a bird to pull at the feathers and skin because the skin can't breathe. Palm oil is something that's taken internally. Go to the pharmacy and purchase 100% Aloe Vera Gel. If one of you can hold the bird, rub the gel into the skin. The skin will immediately absorb the gel. The gel relieves itching. It also moistens and softens the skin. Don't put it on the feathers because it's not the feathers that's bothering him, it's the area where the feathers come out of. Do it everyday. Use the gel liberally. It's not toxic so the bird won't be harmed if it's ingested.

For the palm oil, you should search around either online or by phone for the many large vitamin and or health food companies or outlets that are there. Their catalogs should be online, will hqve search engines and will tell you whether they sell it. The oil can't be purchased in pharmacies. Most of your large vitamin companies out there will ship for an average price. The very large vitamin outlets here sell the palm oil for inexpensive prices and will ship to canada but you will have to pay more than just shipping and handling. Palm oil isn't an item that needs to be purchased in a place that also deals with animals.

Stop each feeding when your bird finally tells you that he's no longer interested in that particular feeding. If you were syringe feeding, the sign of that would be vomiting that feeding up. With spoon feeding, the sign will be no interest in taking the food after a few nibbles. Don't put week or time limits on when you should stop. Some birds take longer to get tired of a specific feeding. When they don't want a formula feeding, they'll definitely tell you.

Imme Try unshelled almonds. They're oval, easier to grab and easier to crack into. Walnuts are for bigger birds unless you partially crack the shell open for your bird.

""""Do you think once he starts eating seed again he will be ok ? I will ask about the safflower and also try to get palm oil, thankyou very much -"""" This is what I believe and I've seen it in the past...I believethat your bird will calm down more and start to get back to chattering more even though it might not be words. The important thing here is that the bird should be making noise. I've seen birds that had food withheld from them and eventually, the bird starts to bash and knock the food bowl right out of it holder. They are obviously distressed, nervous, high wire but as soon as they eat all they can consume, they calm down , puff up and take more naps during the day. That's a sign of relaxation and contentment. That kind of result should always be aimed for by the owner. Relaxation and excersise and distraction eases the urge to constantly pluck. How long will it take to see decent results concerning the feathers. Approx 2 full molts which means about 1 year. Don't get scared. That's the time it takes to see results. If your bird isn't a serious plucker who doesn't mutilate his whole body, then lessen that time. I'm not trying to scare you but when someone mentions *cold turkey* where food is involved, I get a chill up my back. Another thing about pellets..I've got a TAG that refuses to eat most pellets, very little veggies and just some fruit. He's as healthy as a horse, is a very good weight, very active, not a feather plucker and is also a good feisty bird who likes to nip a bit and put the other greys in their place. Just don't cold turkey him.

Who ever told you to completely take one type of food completely away and replace it with another is giving bad advice. Any food changes are done over different periods of time depending upon how receptive the bird is to change. If he's doing a lot of plucking right now, that can stop or at least diminish the bird's desire to chat away. That also happens to birds who are naturally losing feathers during the year ( molting ). Whether you think it's right or wrong, you need to put a decent type of parrot mix in the cage so that the bird can eat during the day when it wants to eat or else that bird is gonna get edgy and pluck and chew some more. The parrot mix should have many varieties of seed in it and if you're worried about sunflower seeds, then get the same mix that has safflower seed instead of sunflower. Along with that parrot mix, you give separate things you know he'll like such as veggies and fruit. If he won't touch the pellets, don't give them to him. Your bird is not the first bird that hates pellets. Because he has a feather problem, and because he's an african grey, there's one more important product that he should have for quite a long time which is palm oil which has concentrated amounts of different vitamins and is good for the internals of feather areas that haven't even produced any feathers yet. Palm oil isn't that easy to get but you should try to get some.It can be purchased online in different quantities. Many here will tell you about the advantages and benefits that exist when using palm oil. As a matter of fact, that palm oil should be a permanent part of his diet from now on ESPECIALLY with a plucker.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2008/04/03 00:06

I chime in too. Seems like he's a nail biter

Tracy Just like Judy, You're showing that you can't stay on the right track. It's a case of multiple choice. Judy said it will be better in Just for Men section. Why? Men already know the true facts. Judy spoke of men in this thread so obviously, I responded to her in this thread. There was a need to reassure her that help was just around the corner. Just read my loving post to her. As you can see by what she said, her spirits were lifted. Now for you--Tracy, you say go to Off Topics. Why? I didn't respond in that section because Judy used this thread to bring up men. Who knows.Yesterday maybe those pathways were already starting to be complicated for her. You find the need to add to this thread but you really don't know what to say. A lovely, wonderful woman such as you starts to think real hard and decide to use cartoons. The old memories of crayons rises.You feel really secure with your cartoons and funny faces. That is commonly known as age regression. Luckily, you don't suffer from short term memory loss. Your mind remembers the times of the distant past when Mom and pop (mum in UK)were the guiding lights. Life was simple. There weren't any major problems. Mum and dad were always there. There was school, playing with dolls, playing patty cake and giggling,cooking little muffins that always burn't which caused immense laughter,and of course eventually looking at the handsome figures of the boys at the dance halls, eventually going steady, maybe getting married, learning the art of the fast chatter,the excitement the the well known *rumor* syndrome. The biggest worry was finding that daddy figure who would keep you on the right path during your adult years. It's sad that you live so far away from Judy. If you both lived near each other, the two of you could share that GPS. But, not to worry. The device is also available in the UK. Don't fret. The right path is just around the corner. Just make sure you make a right hand turn. The right path is always on the right side. PS--you say that you're sorry you posted twice. That's simply an unconscious need and desire to make sure that people do see your cartoons in case they bypassed them. Not your fault. It's the mind wandering away onto another path. Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2008/04/01 18:40<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2008/04/01 19:29

Judy says """""Thats unusual for a man, its usually the women that go nuts over the littlest things"""" I really don't think Judy knows what she's talking about. Actually, we men have very complex personalities that enable us to show emotion in many ways, especially towards creatures that can't fend for themselves. Women simply worry..men are strong and able to relieve that worrying. When that happens, the women are so elated that they do what they do best which is to smile,chatter and gab and then quiet down and think about other things to worry about. Men don't need to go nuts. They're already in possession which allows them to bypass the small insignifcant moaning and chattering and gabbing of the female gender and reorganize and position the woman to aim her in the right path. That's very necessary because it's well known that women are often referred to as being *dizzy*. Men are known as the strong silent type because there's enough sound being put out by the woman for more than 2 people. I'm sure that Judy will rethink her statement and realize that she simply didn't give much thought to what she said. Judy is an extremely good person who deserves to periodically be aimed in the right direction before the pathways become complex. For the future everyone who cares what happens to Judy can contribute a small amount of money in order to purchase a decent GPS that she can carry. Ever see the LIFE ALERT commercial? Just think of Judy saying with a look of relief saying 'and that's why I wear one' and you'll know that she was really worthy of everyone's legitimate worries.

Sometimes there's people out there that will do incorrect clips and even worse, clip too early in a baby bird's development period. Many people here disagree and say that the wings should be clipped immediately. I feel that a bird needs to learn coordination and build up the upper the strength that occurs in the chest area and the covert wing area. It's more of a headache to the owner as opposed to the parrot. After the bird develops coordination and directioal skills, clipping can be considered. If a bird is never allowed to fly properly, the bird becomes too dependent on the owner for many things. Their personality many times, doesn't develop to it's full potential. I'm not a fan of clipping but I'd like you to explain something..what you mean when you say that the tail feathers were clipped??

Let's put a good third one into the mix The African Grey Parrot Handbook authors--Mattie Sue Athan Dianalee Deter

COUNTDOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 10--oh my god! IT'S GONNA HAPPEN!! 9----did i do the right thing? 8---let me check my list 7----geez, what if he doesn't want it? 6---i have to be calm 5---Where's his little birdie bear? 4---is my poo poo blouse ironed? 3--my god, will he remember me? 2--let me double check his cage! 1--Oh no!! I'm getting nervous!! I gotta pee Knock,Knock What a minute,.... Damn it,I'm coming, I'm coming Honey, SURPRISE!!!!!!!!!!!!! Squawk, cheep cheep. PLOP---House warming gift!!! CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!

This really doesn't sound like a health problem but it does fit the African grey species and you might not know the whole scope of their personality and habits so I'll tell you about them to relieve your mind. Your bird is 10 yrs old and has already developed the typical traits of an older and more mature grey. Those traits were with the the bird way before you obtained her since she's already 10 yrs old. It's just that you're seeing them for the first time. The visual situation with your grey happens to many people who see a gradual change as soon as their bird reaches maturity and it disturbs them. Nothing is wrong though although some people don't wanna believe it. When a grey is relatively young up until the age of about 5 or 6, they have an interest in other things such as toys and other physical objects but as they get a little older, their constant interest in things is taken over by their interest in things that aren't there. Namely, the things in their minds. The are really thinking about things we couldn't possibly know about.. Greys will sit for hours and stare out of windows, be very quiet and to people who are watching, it's mistaken for an unhappy bird. Their constant interest in playthings lessen. They start playing in spurts. Steady relaxation has set in. They lose the constant need to be cuddled and constantly petted. They begin to set the rules concerning when they want that done. An African grey doesn't require intense constant attention from it's owner in order to be content. There are other species that do. Your bird has finished up the novelty of moving in with a new owner, having new toys and is now settling down to being a grey again. She will show interest in all the things you say she physically does but it will come in spurts such as coming out of the cage, playing with things, chewing things, being visibly active but again, only in spurts. A grey's habits and personality traits can be put on the back burner but only for a while. What I'm saying here is that you will never experience or see the lifestyle that your bird had when it was very young. Being an adult has permanently taken over which is absolutely normal. As far as your bird being unhappy when you go to work...that can't be answered here but you can contact the previous owners and ask about the general habits that existed in the past. Many bored birds will do things to themselves when they're uncomfortable. Your bird isn't doing that yet but you need to watch for signs in the the future that seem strange such as plucking, sneak attack biting, constant low sounding growling when you're near by. As long as you keep up with what you're doing physically with the bird, she should remain stable. If you can increase and decrease the routines you have with her, that also helps. As far as toys---it can never be a detriment but the bird might not accept them or ignore them or be fearful of them. What you shouldn't do is remove her present collection of toys and replace them. The toys that are there are a part of it's home even if she doesn't play with them. Toys play two roles..playing with them and creating contentment for the bird. Example, the bird doesn't play with a certain toy but does like to sleep very near a certain toy. You'll see many different parts of the bird's personality come3 to the surface now that the honeymoon and novelty is starting to wear off. You can't possibly see all of those things in 2 months. In the future if you see things that are strange to you or worry you, simply ask and people will give you their similar experiences that go on with their bird. If you don't have one, one toy I would recommend that you get is a cow bell which can be purchased at a pet store. Parrots enjoy getting into very nasty fights with those bells and then after a time they also consider that bell a friend because the bell is reacting to the bird which many other toys won't do. The bird smashes the bell, the bell swings back and hits the bird in the face or head causing the bird to fight with it even more intensely until playing is finished for that time. Then the process starts all over again. Good luck and stop worrying so much. Your African grey is just being an African grey.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2008/03/27 18:49

Those types of problems have nothing to do with breeders that are rearing decent chicks. """"How common is it that a Grey that was properly socialized """" Permanent socializing starts in the home of the new owner, not at the breeder's residence. Most plucking is usually caused by the bird's skin condition. Many people who own greys don't know all the procedures to combat that dryness. Greys and cockatoos are well known for their dry skin. Plucking can also be a psychological problem because most of the time, when there are problems that a grey has, they will solve that problem by turning on themselves and start plucking. Cockatoos do the same thing. Screaming is usually not a problem with greys. They're well known to be quiet birds in the parrot world. If they are screamers in a house it's usually because the bird is being neglected and wants attention. Biting is a natural thing for all parrots to do. Their mouth is their arm/hand. You punch someone with your hand..they bite someone with their beak. It can be minimized by learning a grey's body language which takes a bit of time. Simply put, ignore the grey when it wants to bite. They don't hold grudges and the urge will lessen for a time. A grey will also bite a member of the family that he/she doesn't like. Children are very prone to be bitten. That problem is dealt with during the socialization period when all members of the family partake in all activities with the bird EQUALLY.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2008/03/26 23:30

1---Go to walmart in their arts and crafts section--pick up some small wooden blocks----12 per pk---$2.50/$2.89 Put holes in each and put a rope through some of the blocks. Hang them up some place. Greys like to chew and knock around wood. 2--go to pet store and pick up a cow bell, about 2 inches wide. Hang it in cage or on playstand. Greys like to do battle with bells 3--go to walmart or grocery store and pick up 1 small/medium sized rawhide dog bone ( white with knots on either end. Not colored ones) Soak the item in water for 1 hr. It'll be soft. Cut pieces off. put holes in them and either make a string of them on a rope or between the blocks. The pieces of rawhide will harden again. 4--go to dollar store where they have hard unbreakable baby toys. Take them apart and put some pieces on ropes and hang them wherever you want. They're unbreakable and chew proof. 5--go to pet store and pick up one of those stringy multi colored items that are used in tug of war --knots on either end. Don't untie knots. Connect to a piece of rope and hang it somewhere. Will keep birds busy for hrs and hrs. I buy the ones made for dogs cause they're cheaper but are exactly the same as the bird's version. Birds don't eat them, just try to shred them. They last a very long time. The more they shred them, the happier they get. Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2008/03/25 23:49<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2008/03/26 01:37

You're right about the bar spacing. For a grey it should be 3/4 to 1 inch spacing. Greys have larger feet than other parrots of the same size. Putting a new cage in shouldn't be a problem. Because of a grey's personality, he might be leery of a new cage just like they're leery of new toys, perches, new bowls etc. Some will say to put a new cage next to an old cage temporarily so that the bird will see it and eventually get used to seeing it. That's up to you. I've changed cages quite often with no problems. The only thing I do is take the toys from the old cage and put them in a new cage approx in the same place as was in the old cage. I also do that with the perches. I don't make a big deal out of switching cages. I don't need to put a new cage next to the old cage because there's already other cages in the bird area. I personally have never had a problem doing that. In a new cage the bird might look a little leery of it but things for me always turn out okay. Your choice though.

Ideally, a bird should only be purchased after he/she is totally weaned. That in itself is extremely important if any shipping is involved. If there's anyone out there selling 2 week old birds and on top of that, saying that the bird can be shipped, it's either a total scam or being run by an unscruptulous lowlife individual. There's much, much more involved than just hand feeding a 2,4,6 week old parrot which shouldn't be done by anyone who isn't experienced. The whole process of getting a bird ready for sale should be done by the breeder. The best place to buy a parrot is from a breeder or if you have to, a small pet store either of which will include guarantees, warranties, special instructions for caring for the animal, health information, vet information. None of these things are unusual and usually come with the purchase. You should be able to visibly see what you're purchasing. The person doing this type of selling should be drawn and quartered and left outside to be devoured by mosquitos, ants and bees. From a breeder, the price of a Timneh would be approx $650 to $750. From a pet shop, add on about $150.