Jayd

2nd of 2 post's I hope this will help, we'll be doing a update on Joey and Tango in the next few days.... Go for it!!!!, It's wonderful...[sorry about the bold, key stuck....] Rescue #1 JOEY Joey: Congo African Grey Parrot Present Age: Four years old Abuse Type: Mental and Severe Psychological (No visible sign of Physical abuse) Background: We know the pet store that Joey had originally been purchased from. He had been weaned and clipped, never allowed to fly. For the next two years we had no record and we have not been able to speak to the previous owners. After purchasing Joey and with some help also with help from Joey himself, we have been able piece together some of his past history and his previous owners. His previous owners were a well-established young couple. The female was never fond of any types of pets, did not fit her lifestyle. Joey had favored the male and there had been a bonding but it wasn’t a healthy bonding. Shortly after getting Joey, which brought problems to the marriage, the male was more interested in maintaining harmony than integrating Joey. This brought about bickering over Joey between the two owners with the female getting more and more agitated, putting him in a small room by himself, being ignored by both of them except for cage cleaning, food and water. There was a lot of arguments that took place within earshot of Joey, possible marital abuse, yelling at Joey by both of them, cage being tapped, arguments about whether to keep Joey or get rid of him. At this point, the owners decided, (not mutually) to get rid of Joey. So, at this point, Joey and his cage was taken to a pet store where the owner agreed to hold him for awhile and let Joeys owners visit him for a while (which was wrong). They only visited him three times over the next six months, arguing in his presence each time. At this point in time, we took Joey into our hearts and home. The Homecoming: We didn’t know this young Grey’s name, so we called him Jim (Kirk) to go along with Spock. At this time, we had enough birds for everyone in the city. He was a quiet bird and would sit in his cage in the back and be soundless. He would let you change his water and food (he had been on seeds only diet). He would also shake if you came near the cage and would constantly head-search while chewing his toe-nails. He was extremely neurotic…he was a small bird and looked like he might have been stunted from lack of a proper diet. We introduced him to everyone and we did not attempt to hold him. We talked to him and talked to our other fids in front of him. If we saw that he was being extremely nervous, we would go out of our way to stop and talk to him with a “Hi Jim” etc, and we were slowly discovering the depth of his psychological and mental abuse. We left the cage door open whenever we were home and awake which at this stage was 24/7. One day, Jay left the room and in the most concerned voice, Joey called out “Hello! Are you okay?” When Jay came back, Joey was standing at the open door looking down the hallway, looking for Jay to come back. He would also say “Hello”, “How are you?” at this time. He also started talking to himself…bringing up his past two years. While shaking badly, he would say things like “Are you going to feed me?” “Get a lawyer”, “You can run but you can’t hide!” “LIAR!” He would make crying sounds…he would do this while we were not in the room (plus other things too sad to say). During this period, we were introducing him to all sorts of fresh veggies and fruits. (It has taken over a year to get him to eat veggies and fruits) Besides his ruminations, he also started talking, calling to the other fids, calling us by name, singing but always reverting to his old self and chewing his nails and shaking. Out of nowhere, as Jay and I were walking by his cage, he looked Jay straight in the eye and said, “I’m Joey, NOT Jim”. He told us this twice (imagine us with our jaws on the ground) and we had to start changing his name on our threads. Now and into the Future: Joey lets us hold him and play with him more each day. He is coming out of the closet so to speak…he is an ideal parrot in a number of ways but it is all from his abuse years. He has built his life on his own routines. He eats at the same time each day, he talks at the same time each day, he preens himself at the same time each day…he definitely has obsessive-compulsive tendencies. For the last two months we have not heard him say anything from his abusive past. He has a growing vocabulary and strong cognitive abilities which we believe has roots in his abusive years. He lets us hold him when he wants to. At times, he is very cage-territorial and he stays on his cage. He will perch and let you take him from his cage for a few moments only. We have a perch on the outside of his cage and he likes to spend most of his time looking out the window. He is extremely vocal and interacts with Spock and Salsa and lets both of them eat and drink from his bowls and he plays tail-chase with both of them on his cage. He is very insecure anywhere away from his cage. It is an ongoing process to try to get him comfortable enough to stay away from his cage. He has attempted to fly on four-five occasions to fly and they have been disastrous. This is definitely due to the fact that he was constantly clipped. (We have set out pillows on his common landing areas that is more often missed than hit.) At times, he will revert to something that triggers his bad memories and will pin his eyes and draw blood out of the clear blue. Once he snaps out of it, he is very affectionate and loving. The Future continues: On-going Progress: In the last couple of weeks, Joey has made some amazing changes. To everyone’s surprise, when you open his cage in the morning, he will hang from the top of the cage, wait for you to support him with your hand and involve you in beaky play. He will hang with one foot and grab your hand with the other (Yikes!) and play roughly while talking to you. (Non-Sexual) He’s molting and he’s also found out that a human finger is excellent for rubbing the pin feathers at the bend of the leg where it touches the body. In the few moments that he lets you hold him, he has leaned against our chest (on his own) and cuddled. Now and Beyond: Daily, you can still see the pain that he has endured. When he thinks we are not observing him, he reverts to his shaking and nail chewing to a lesser extent. His most recent trait that the past is still current in is memory is when we have to leave, he will let out a couple of loud contact calls and puff up to almost twice his size and stare and you and call while you are leaving. It is so sad… They NEVER forget…any abuse is a major and daily part of their lives and they live with it….it is always there to haunt them. Jayd and Maggie

Sorry...I edited and saved your post and will reinstate in on Wednesday the 13th when voting starts........Jayd....

Remember, voting doesn't start till next Wednesday....Thank you....Jayd

Please heed this advice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pellets in general; due to the fact that, #1: the main ingredient in pellets is fillers, (corn, rice, etc) #2: large amounts of supplements, natural and artificial, are added to this mix, #3: it is processed at high temperatures which destroys the nutrients and the supplements which is why they put so many, #4: some pellets contain BHT and other preservatives that are carcinogenic and even known to be poisonous to humans if enough is ingested. Pellets that have artificial coloring; the coloring is unknown as to what the long-term effects can be. Summation: It is safer to feed your fids organic natural pellets, such as Zupreme Natural and Harrison's'. I personally don't use Kaytee products because of the ingredients. Ads or advertisements saying "nutritionally complete diet" is basically true. But if you travel to the natural habitat of your fid, you won't be able to find any pellet trees. They are far and few between. It is even harder to find the fruit pellet trees. So, for a parrot, especially a Grey, pellets should not be the main, let alone only, component of their diet. A parrot get's 99% of their D3 from sunlight or UVB indoor florescent bulbs, so all the added D3 in pellets won't help at all.Pellets should be fed as a small part of their overall diet. A Grey's diet: A parrot, especially a Grey should be fed in order of priority, fresh dark green leafy veggies, orange veggies (carrots, bell peppers, etc), legumes and rice, (remember that beans and rice make a complete protein), split peas and lentils, cous-cous, pasta, very,very little fruit (Greys-one small piece every few days...fruit pellets are not a good choice for Greys), nuts and unhulled sunflower seeds (minimum-one almond and two tablespoons sunflower seeds a day) and a seed mix (without sunflower seeds) and pellets, 1/4cup daily. All fresh food should be removed after 3-4 hours. This should be supplemented with an 1/4 slice of extremely hard-boiled egg or scrambled dry egg a couple of times a week. A teaspoon of low-sodium albacore tuna or salmon (cooked) once or twice a week is a good supplement. A cooked chicken drumstick cleaned with most meat removed is an excellent source of nutrients for them as they eat the bone and the marrow. A half teaspoon of pro-biotic yogurt is good for them too. Wash all their veggies, water and food bowls in organic apple cider vinegar. Some of the needs of a Grey is natural or artificial UVB to promote D3. The above listed veggies and foods to promote proper nutrition, nuts to supply EFA's (Essential Fatty Acids) along with sunflower and assorted seeds supplying EFA's and amino acids. Fruits are basically non-essential and are used as a treat sparsely. My Vet Sells:(vets, bless them) A vet's priority besides taking care of our fids is to make money. This is what they are in business for. In some vet's offices and in your family doctor's offices, you will see posters and ads from pet suppliers and ads advertising medicine. A vet, the same as a doctor, receives a kick-back advertising and selling said products. Over the years, I have asked many vets how they determine of all the products they advertised, why they chose those to promote.Basically, they all answered the same way; if it looked good and it meets all the requirements including the promotional aspects, that's the one they chose. This is especially true of vets who treat more than one animal. (This is not true of ALL vets) What do I do?: A simple diet would be seeds and natural organic pellets 24/7 (Totally Organic Pellets-TOP's, Harrison's, Zupreme Organic, Roudybush). Assorted of the veggies listed above placed in the cage each afternoon and all remaining foods given as treats. A more complete diet would be a warm Mash/Smash morning and evening meal with veggies in the afternoon balancing and rotating all suggested veggies, etc. Yes! You can feed your fids pellets only but as far as being totally healthy to ensure a long and prosperous life...

Does it have to be one? I can't decide, so I'm posting 5! If you don't like it, bring it up to the moderator!!!!! HEE HEE!!! Rules Revision: Number 1: you are not limited to a number of photos posted...Each photo must have a caption. (Love what we have so far!) Number 2: due to the fact that the people who are voting are members and are voting for a photo and not a person, the winner is not judged by any moderator or administrator but by the grey't people of the forum so Judy and Talon are not exempt (nah, nah, nah....) In choosing the photo you vote for, submit the caption so everyone knows which one you are voting for. Vote for a single photo, not a group but you can let all groups influence your vote. Looking forward to seeing all these photos!

This is good advise. Don't let your baby sense that you are stressing and upset. Your baby is going to be with you for a long time so as you will hear from many on this grey't forum so take it slow and easy. Jayd, Maggie, Spock and flock

What a wonderful flock!!! And welcome to this greyt forum. Really looking forward to hear about you and yours. We have a wonderful Other Bird Room and we also have a Too 2. Jayd, Maggie, Spock and the flock

Please read from the start. Thank you. Jayd http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?190309-A-note-on-Punishment-and-your-Parrot/page6

Three weeks ago we lost our last baby cockatiel, Rodan... He was a Cinnamon pied lutino. His Father was Prince and his mother was Princes. Rodan was 4 yr's old, he had Heart diease. His father Prince crossed the Rainbow bridge last year. Princes is doing fine, all her baby's have wonderful homes....

So many prays to you.....It's so hard to visit this page...

find it!!!!

Sorry, I forgot to mention. Most every one knows my love and respect for Apple Cider Vinegar. It is a "Safe" disinfectant that you can use around your bird. It kills most bacteria and fungus, not to mention spores. You can clean cages, non-adsorbent toys and perches, almost anything. Clean your water bowls, food bowls [let them air dry] Put 1 to 2 drops in the water bowl. Vinegar is acidic, it has a low ph, that's why it kills fungus and bacteria. "Note: Ask Talon about her water system.." For use in water bowls and soaking veggies, use "Organic Apple Cider Vinegar", after you clean your veggies, don't rinse them. The odor won't hurt your bird, all our fid's love it....Jayd

We are so sorry, lot's of prayers go out to you. If I may, keep things as dry as can be, if your still bathing daily, you might want to reduce that to 1 time a week. Feed foods rich in Beta Carotene, as Vitamin A is important for good health of the respiratory tract and skin. Yams, carrots, broccoli, red peppers and apricots are all great, as are supplements like wheat grass and spirulina. Humidifiers are known to possibly help cause this disease. Dryness is very important. Luv, Jayd, Maggie, Spock and the flock

Okay...they can be naked and wet...there is nothing more wild than a wet 'Zon. There is nothing funnier than a wet 'Zon. There is nothing sweeter than a wet 'Zon.....SO....let's have a "Wet-n-Wild" photo contest! Post a photo of your best wet 'Zon and add a one line caption and post it. PM, email, call your friends on the forum and have them come to the Amazon Room and vote on you. The most popular photo will receive a sticky (Immortalized on the Grey Forum) including a thread by the winner. The contest begins today Thursday March 31st and will end next Tuesday, April 5th. April 6-11 will be voting time. To vote, have your friends make a post. One photo per person only please....Can't wait!!!:cool: (Disclaimer: Salsa is exempt from participating)

Good treat, use Wacky-Mac which has 4 flavors, wheat, tomato, spinach, and beet's. Remember they swell when wet, so not to many, not before meal time. Our Grey's call them "Good-Nuts" lol

Yes, your Grey can live on Harrison's, as well as Zupreem and many other top pellet diets. The ingredients in Harrison's is: Ingredients: *Ground Shelled Sunflower Seeds, *Ground Hulless Barley, *Ground Soybeans, *Ground Shelled Peanuts, *Ground Green Peas, *Ground Lentils, *Ground Yellow Corn, *Ground Rice, *Ground Toasted Oat Groats, Psyllium, *Ground Alfalfa, Calcium Carbonate, Spirulina, Montmorillonite Clay, Ground Dried Sea Kelp, Vitamin E Supplement, Sea Salt, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, d-Biotin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Sodium Selenite. *CERTIFIED ORGANIC INGREDIENT Guaranteed Analysis: Crude protein (min.) 18%, crude fat (min.) 15%, crude fiber (max.) 6.5%, moisture (max.) 10%. Read what the ingredient are...They are Filler and added supplements!!! A lot of Forum members use them, BUT!!! They also feed fresh veggies, legumes, grains, nut's, and a little fruit... A point to take note of is, A grey absorbs very little D3 from food or supplement, 99% of D3 is derived from natural sun light,[15min a day] or UVB natural florescent indoor bulbs...[4-8hr's a day]Another point is most pellet are made with high heat, which as you know degrades nutrition found in the products. A better alternative is to: keep fresh seed's and pellets available 24/7 [[sunflower-less] Serve a Mash or Smash for breakfast and dinner, in the afternoon supply fresh veggies, [dark green leafy veg's, carrots, split peas[green and yellow] lentils [green and yellow] etc, very little fruit, nuts and sunflower seed's for treats and training rewards. If you wish for a simpler diet: seeds and pellets, fresh veggies in the afternoon, sunflower seeds and nuts for treats..[change fresh foods every 3-4hr's] Check out these threads.... http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?112983-Nutrition-Diet http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?190462-We-Feed-Our-Fid-s!!!-Update

Your decisions are respected and loved. You would only make a decision that is right. We love you. Jay and Maggie

Sorry, I had a senior moment...we've been away and forgot that some don't know Spock...Spock or is known by some of the forum as the self-proclaimed "king of the Greys"...this poor guy has hypoglycemia for over a year now and his metabolism runs fast. They believe his liver is not producing enough sugar for the amount of insulin produced. So he eats carbs for the constant state of exercise he is in. If you would like to learn about Spock in his own words, go to either Spock's or Jayd's profiles and check threads posted. Thank you, Jayd and Maggie (and me too, King Spock!)

What you suggest is not punishment, it is abuse. There are two types of abuse...intentional and unintentional. Unintentional is lack of knowing what is abuse or lack of proper treatment, usually from an owner not researching and taking advise from others who have not researched but do it because it sounds good. Example: laddering, having a bird step up from one hand to the next in succession a number of time, squirting with water or throwing bits of paper and comparing how a bird acts in the wild as opposed to captivity. Most of us should know what intentional abuse is. In the wild,there are bully birds, not so many in the grey flocks as in the Zons and the Macaw flocks. A Grey spends almost a year in his nest before leaving and then seeks out a mate from his flock. This is a learning time. They are not taught by intimidation. Our captive Greys being bred in captivity are not domesticated (like cats and dogs) nor will they for about another 200,000 years. This shows in their attitudes, actions, language and behavior. A Grey is capable of compound thoughts. Example: when you say "I don't like that" in a nice voice (when he bites you) and then immediately re-attempt him,they will learn in due time that biting is not a good behavior. If you squirt a bird for the same action, he will think that you like it and it is a game or he will draw fear and possible danger from you and retreat from you and the whole process of trust must be re-started. An example of the ways that a Grey and an Amazon think differently, an Amazon will make immediate actions without thought. If they fall, they think "Oh well" and pick themselves up, brush themselves off and go about their business. (Most birds are this way) A Grey, before he takes any action, stops and thinks about it, asking himself "could I fall?", "What happens if I fall?", and "Is it worth the chance?". Anyone who has raised (from hatched) more than one bird knows that positive reinforcement is far more rewarding than any type of negativity, punishment, abuse or otherwise. In dealing with Greys, remember, it is you that have to earn the trust of the Greys, not the other way around.

Salsa is just an eating machine...if it will fit in her beaker, she will eat it...Her main pleasure in life is food followed closely by playing. It is nice to know that she has her priorities in order. Salsa's diet includes fresh veggies, fruit, seeds, and a cleaned chicken drumstick twice a week. For breakfast, she eats almost everything on her plate and then travels down to Joey's cage where Maggie is trying to feed Joey and Spock. She dives in and sneaks bites off the plate followed with a trip to Joey's cage for seeds and water. Then, if Tango is on Salsa's cage, she will fly over and sneak in and eat any left-over toast and fruit. Once Tango spots her, Salsa has to hightail it out before she loses a feather or two. For lunch, she enjoys her fresh veggies and fruit with a complimentary side of whole wheat bread crusts, followed with her daily walnut and almond. For dinner, she flies over and lands on my shoulder and sings in my ear when she is ready for a bite off of our plate which she delicately takes lady-like bites...Salsa loves to eat everything and everyone...she is definitely a "Zoniac"...

Spock's condition is still the same...his body temperature runs higher than a normal Grey and he is definitely a carb freak. When he comes out of his cage in the morning, he eats his sweet potato smash which still consists of cooked sweet potato and organic peanut butter, (about 2 tablespoons), orzo pasta (about 1 teaspoon), split peas/lentils/ (about 1/2 teaspoon), black eyed peas (about 8-10) brown rice, about 1/2 tsp and then he finishes his meal with one Wacky Mac Routini (Spinach, tomato or beet flavor) and then goes for seeds/pellets. Within the next two hours, he will snack on 2-3 popcorn. Then, around two hours, he snacks on his smash. Our mobile home is over fifty feet long and he will fly this area about 15+ times in three hours, not counting Spock and Salsa plays Ace of the Sky. Now it is lock-down time...he will have his famous quarter piece of peanut butter or tuna sandwich. This is also when he is given his fresh veggies while he is put in lock-down (all fids are locked down at this time. We need a rest too) Upon release, he is fed his final hot meal which is similar to his morning feast but we add cooked veggies and occasionally Higgin's "Bon-Apetit" meals in place of rice and beans. He also snacks on good human food at our dinner table (he insists on his own plate). For a coaxing snack as he goes to bed at night, he gets a fingerful of peanut butter. He is very healthy, muscular and strong. He is also a big boy now with an after-bomb weight of around 460 grams. He still gets his medicine with a bite of peanut butter in the morning. During sleep time we always keep seeds/pellets in his cage along with his almond and 1/2 walnut a day. He gets 2 grapes or a chunk of apple every few days but he is waiting impatiently for apricot season. He gets very little fruit. He has 2-3 big bombs a day. We will be posting new pictures of the Spock and the flock soon. Jayd, Maggie, Spock and the flock

Gotta try that...ROFLOL

Grey will also hold sweet memories of you......

"Listen"....to what your fids are saying...you can learn a lot about their emotions and their mental state by what they say, what they repeat and how they say it. If your companion is a re-home or a rescue, you can learn about his past and previous home as they vent themselves in time. Eventually, they will no longer say the things that bother them. Most talking birds have this trait, especially Greys.