Dave007

***I will be taking him to Dr. Brian Speer as soon as I can, but in the meantime I have a "prescription" to fatten Oscar up with peanuts, bananas, high-protein foods and his usual Zupreem pellets.**** Normally, I don't recopy and repost any of my posts but I'll do it here because of what you said a few days ago. Greys don't gain weight quickly no matter what you feed them. It's a slow process and weight gain may never happen if the category of the bird's size is known. Small--Medium--Large --sized birds. You said your bird is 418 gms. Approx 395 pounds is a small grey. Aprox 410 to 450 is medium. Apprx 485 to 565 is large. All weights vary. 1 Pound = 454 Grams ---equals a medium sized bird. I don't know who invented that *prescription* that you'll be giving him but peanuts don't cause a grey to gain weight but too much peanuts can cause problems. Too much fruits is useless because the fruits are acidic and run through the digestive system. Fruits soften stool. That includes bananas. Weight gain won't exist. What caused you to make up your mind that your bird was underweight? Understand that this has nothing to do with the *journal* that you're involved in. I have nothing to do with your daily *journal*. This only has to do with health and I would feel bad by ignoring this subject which is a serious subject.

16 0z --water 3 0z--vinagar hydrogen peroxide isn't necessary. If the powder coating has tiny cracks or openings, the peroxide will work it's way under the crack and soften the powder coating. Wet the rag very well and strongly wipe down everything. How wet the rag is does'nt matter. Let it air dry before putting the bird back in the cage and the drying will be generally quick. Don't use cleaners that we people use. The odors will disappear for us but there will be an lingering odor that will affect their breathing passages which can possibly cause problems. Only they can pick up on those odors. The lingering vinagar smell won't affect the birds but people may not like the smell. The smell goes away in a short amount of time.

Greys don't gain weight quickly no matter what you feed them. It's a slow process and weight gain may never happen if the catagory of the bird's size is known. Small--Medium--Large --sized birds. You never said how much your bird weighs right now. Approx 395 pounds is a small grey. Aprox 410 to 450 is medium. Apprx 485 to 565 is large. 1 Pound = 454 Grams

If it brought you peace of mind, it was worth it. At least you learned a few things for the future. Lots of people spend large amounts of money during the first couple of visits. But the major spending is now over. The tests were complte, the results were complete and good and more than likely, the results from the tests you're waiting for will also be good. Weight is something you'll never have to worry if the bird is in decent shape. Swollen crops is something you now know about so that too is something you;ll not have to worry about. Watching the vet tryin to find anything in the crop was probably done for yor benefit. He sounds like a caring, honest vet that you can trust. Some people can't find that type of vet because some vets are basically scumbags and crooks.

When a CAG or a TAG are babies, they'll weigh much more than any future time in their lives. The average approx size for a adult TAG who has stopped growing is 290( small TAG) to 325 gms ( large TAG). Their weight will always fluctuate a little throughout their lives and the gms that you mention is nothing unusual. As far as the crop looking full--as a bird gets older you'll never see a swollen crop or sunken crop unless they'res an illness. The crop size can be easily see when the bird is a baby. Because of the bird's present age, that's why the vet had to go searching for the contents in the crop.

That statement had a lot more words to it besides the 4 words you picked out above AND that statement pertained to greys who have reached the age of 1 to 2 yrs old, not like that baby bird tucked under your chin. Loads of people ask the question----* Gee, what happened to my bird?? He's a yr old and when he was a baby he used to be the cuddliest bird when he was with me. Now he's different. He's not so cuddly. Did I do something wrong???**** It all has to do with the personality of a grey as he gets older. They become less cuddly and more aloof. And yes, I've had experiences with my greys and other people's greys--about 25 yrs of experience.

""""""""She's harness trained and I have plans to double secure our house doors with those security clasp/chain like what you see in the hotels. This will prevent someone haplessly opening the door from outside and letting her out accidentally. Also places a little more emphasis on making sure the door is closed as I have two girls in my house who won't lock or make sure the doors are shut. """""""" I'd say that if you can and do these things above then you're close to having an area where you don't need to worry about clipping a bird. What you're planning and doing in the future means to me that you're very close to having the ideal situation for having an unclipped bird. Is that more understandable??

In your situation I really don't know why you would think about clipping. You're already 75% ready to have an unclipped bird. Unclipped birds are less dependent on the people that live there. Many people can't accomplish the things you're ready to do. We always try to change people's minds when clipping is discussed. A lot of muscle power is decreased. Coordination is decreased. In the future if you wanna change your mind about clipping just remember that it takes a long time for an even set of wings to grow back in.

Another bad idea

A night light is a very good idea. Greys don't have good eye sight at night. It allows a grey to open the eyes and see things that will eventually become familiar. Some things you should understand about your new bird 1--you really don't know what life style or environment he was previously in. 2--he's obviously an adult bird that may be used to a routine that he doesn't have right now. 3--his cage may have been set up or positioned in a different way in the previous home. 4--he may have lived with one persson and now there's more people 5--you may be doing things too fast for him. He's an adult. They don't accept change quickly. 4 weeks isn't enough time to make judgements concerning behavior. Each thing you do to acclimate your bird should be given a while to succeed. The main thing that bothers you occurs at night time. The rest of the day, he's fine. If he has a night time sleeping/nervous problem, he needs time to accept a new habit. More than likely all of this is gonna take quite a while. I'll say it again---he's an adult. My personal feeling is no cover. Let him see that light. I really don't know what you mean by being frozen to his perch at night but I will tell you about the gemneral habits of many greys First, they find a certain place to sleep. Eventually, that perch becomes permanent place. He may leave that perch alone all day long but when night time comes he eyeballs that perch. Maybe there's even 2 perches. Second, a grey usully goes on that perch through the night and never leaves until the morning. Not every single bird will do this but the huge majority will. Through the night, the only time they leave that perch is when they accidently fall off while sleeping. After about 10 to 15 seconds they start climbing back up to the perch and continue sleeping. Maybe your other birds don't do this but they do have different habits. I believe you should do things slowly and start to accept the nervous things he does. He'll eventually relax. Don't try to correct things in a short amount of time. You'll fail if you do that. I don't know your room dimentions but you may eventually put you other grey near him. Greys learn to copy other greys. Whatever you do, take it slow and try to calm down.

Yes, that's what I mean. A light swatting will not allow him to grip you very well. It will make him leave. Repeat this even though he may not do anything concerning biting. He doesn't belong on your head. No bird should be allowed to stay on someone's head. if he lands on your head, lightly swatting him away should take about 5 seconds or less. This isn't a new problem. Loads of people here have had this problem and loads of people will tell you that it's a quick way to get a bird off your head. He'll either fly away or fly to the floor or fly to the cage or fly to a piece of furniture etc. None of these places he'll fly to won't be suffering pain or bleed nor will they complain. . Your head or other body parts will. Many of these same types of methods are used for what's called *shoulder birds*. Abird lands on a shoulder and begins to bite a neck, a cheek, an earlobe, a piece of lewelry, a piece of clothing, eyeglass frames etc. Those types of birds will eventually be known as *no shoulder birds*. The person has to quickly get the bird off the shoulder or else there's trouble ahead. That bird will never be allowed on the shoulder again because a shoulder bird and a head bird can never be trusted.

The air purifiers that you're thinking about don't really work with parrot dust/dander. Those are made for areas that have dust in the air that you can't actually see. The one that Dave suggests works much better and is good for parrot areas.

It's not important to count how many times a bird has done this in one day. Once is enough. Simply put, you need to be much more assertive and be quick and watchful. You may have heard about not showing fear or not reacting but you have to do these things in order to lessen this problem. It won't hurt him. It'll just make him very uncomfortable. If your bird lands on your head, you need to swat him off QUICKLY!. That mans you need to use your hand. Using your arm isn't as fast as using your hand. You shouldn't wait until he bites before swatting him off. If he bites your head that means you can't trust him EVER!! You should swat him off every time he lands on your head even if he has no intentions of biting. You can't possibly know what his intentions really are. Letting a bird land on your head isn't natural. Do this frequently on a steady basis and he'll eventually realize what's ahead. Your bird isn't a head person and he's proving that to you over and over. You should do the swatting on a good day and a bad day. Some people may call this cruelty but they're not the ones getting bitten. You never know, maybe the next time your earlobe will be easier to get to. We can't tell you if he'll ever stop biting but we can tell you how to protect yourself against being bitten so frequently.

What a sweetie. She likes to fly already. If you're thinking about clipping her wings, come here first and let others help you to truly mke the right decision. If they're clipped, they'll take a long time to grow back.

I've unlurked many times. The members who're lurkers are actually lookers.

Well, a large aviary can be built. It should have branches in it. It should be outside where all the sights and sounds are near by. Some people go and buy CDs that have a collection of parrots yapping away but that too loses it's appeal because there's no CDs that have just greys in it. Greys only listen to each other. The most well rounded Cockatoo is one who doesn't live in a house. In the wild, they don't pluck. They're very healthy. In a house they scream, pluck and bite irratically. The same thing applies to other species of animals too. Think about bringing a baby wolf into the house and raising it. Yes, it's a baby BUT. So actually, when the wild bird doesn't have the chance to live as a wild bird with other wild birds, *wild bird* experiences can't happen. The same thing applies to many other animals too. A parrot who is now a pet parrot experiences what the owner supplies. Physical contact with other parrots doesn't exist anymore. The natural parrotese talking no longer exists. The sounds they hear are in the house. They can't eat the same things that they eat in the wild. They don't mature at the same rate as the outside parrot. There is no pecking order. Only wild birds can create that. You're already offering him what you can and he'll have to accept that. Pet greys are wild birds and will always remain that way. Becoming a pet parrot doesn't alter it's desire to be in that natural wild setting. It's just that they haven't learned how to live in that wild setting. Another thing that isn't acceptable for a bird to accept is clipping wings. The basic ability to do what comes naturally( flying) is destroyed. All the different things that we do with or to our birds is to satisfy us, not the bird. Some people think that clipping is necessary but no one asked the bird what he/she thinks about doing that. No one says that you or anyone else is wrong to have that pet bird but changes do occur and we can't do anything about it. Its the price of taking a wild creature and putting that creature into a domestic setting. I'm as guilty as the next person for doing this. So continue what you're doing. You're not doing anything wrong. Just do your best and make the parrot as happy as you can. It's the only thing left for that bird. Think about trhe original thread started by Dan. Are our greys experiencing that natural healthy environment ?

I believe that one of the most important words here is flock. Pet greys act totally different in a atmosphere that doesn't have that surrounding flock safety. Many people try to provide that flock mentality but nothing can replace real natural flock surroundings. Pet greys lack that important flock safety environment. The owners provide that safety but in doing so, the bird loses that flock safety environment. Look at pet birds that escape. They disappear but rarely find that flock environment. They search and search without success. Compare the breeders and pet birds in a house. Mixing a pet grey with a breeder grey is a possible disasture. I've seen it happen over and over. The breeder grey knows that the pet grey is no longer the same type of bird and it isn't unusual for a breeder to maim or even kill that pet grey. The pet grey has changed allegiance to the human owner because of survival and the breeder grey knows this has happened. Some habits remain the same--the morning chatter and the afternoon chatter. What's heard is all types of sounds, mostly parrotese and it goes on until nature says *stop*. Another sign of the loss of the mentality factor is when two pet birds of the same species are put together. Unless one shows definite signs of not being the alpha bird, trouble is just around the corner. How many people have come around here to talk about the drastic change in their bird's attitude from when the bird was 6 mts old to when it's now 18 mts old? The main thing being biting. How many people have come around here to talk about the personality change from a cute cuddly bird to a an aloof uncuddly bird? Of course the person thinks it's their fault because in a person's mind that cuddly bird should have stayed a cuddly bird. How many people have come around here to talk about how frustrated they are because their bird doesn't eat the so called good things that' re offered? I personally believe that a bird is oftened fed things that aren't necessary. No one compares their bird to the wild flock mentality that exists in wild parrots but nature makes sure that some of this flock mentality remains. It's just that the flock mentality is now aimed at the pet owner who in no way can provide the same mentality that wild untamed bird have. How many people have come around here to vent their frustration concerning their bird's lack of interest in the toys that are given? Those wild untamed birds don't play with a huge variety of toys. How many people come around here to vent their frustrations because their bird likes one person over another? The word flock has lost or was never started with that bird and many times, that problem can't be cured. So, my basic message here is to go out of your way to know as much as you can about that bird that's been pulled away from it's natural surroundings and replaced with human surroundings. Those surroundings are as different as night and day. So the information Dan has injected in this thread should be carefully studied and that study takes quite a while to learn and understand.

Yes you can post your YOUTUBE videos here. Go to YOUTUBE and find your video. Click on the video name. Your video will appear. Go to the top of the YOUTUBE page and you'll see a link that only has to do with your video that's playing. Copy that link and come here and paste that link anywhere you want.

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Lean away and have fun doing it. A little tip--go down to our Nursery section. You'll see loads of things that'll make your transition easier.

Many people get rehomed older birds that like one gender and not the other. Birds like that need a chance to come around to the gender that they don't like. That takes time and 2 days is no where enough time to make any judgements. A bird like that needs a chance to adjust as well as the new owner. You say you wanna return the bird and look for another one that likes females. Well, that's no guarantee that the new bird will like you. Birds make up their own minds. Like I said, 2 days isn't enough time to judge whether he's totally set in his ways. If you got a bird that likes females, is it fair to the males in your house? What has to be worked on is socializing the bird into a household with all members of the family. You're expecting too much in a very short amount of time. One major thing I would say----I don't think it's a good idea to be bringing a grey around where there's a bunch of kids . Greys are known to not like children and kids are known to not be able to resist contact with a parrot. If a parrot bites a kid it's serious. AND the parrot may turn on the owner because that person brought the bird into that uncomfortable situation. PS--many people here who have rehomed birds don't return birds because of what gender the bird prefers and those people have been successful in becoming friends with the bird. Getting a baby bird doesn't guarantee that the baby bird will eventually like the female or the male in the house. Many people here can tell you stories about that. Maybe you should think about getting a different type of parrot because greys are very complex.

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