Dave007

What we're against is people who clip birds for bad reasons or convenience reasons. Many birds are clipped too young and never learn how to fly and never learn coordination. It's the bird that suffers. In your situation, you should get your bird clipped so that any vertical fly can't happen. It seems like that's the main problem. The clip should be done by someone who understands how certain clips work. You should explain to that person exactly what you want. You'll then have a bird that can fly horozontally and have soft landings. No more flying up and then coming down on your head to bite and draw blood from the face /neck. At that age it's hard for a bird to change it's attitude.

Before reclipping him, you may wanna think about him developing his muscle strength and coordination. In my opinion, birds shouldn't be clipped so young in the first place. Not allowing him learn how to fly correctly isn't good for a bird's future life. If you do need to clip him, wait until he has that strength and coordination which takes a few mts. Also move that mirror so he can't see himself. In his eyes, it's another grey.

Just remember to cover the walls with vinyl covering.

Some people get 2nd and 3rd birds for various reasons. The most successful people have lots of experience handling and understanding different species of parrots. If a person gets a parrot especially one that's very young, the whole purpose to form a bond with that one bird. Success often happens. The majority of multiple bird owners usually came across those birds by adoption. Preowned birds are often the #2 or #3 birds. I have a feeling you're talking about getting a very young bird. as Dave says, the cost doubles including living quarters. Then there's personality---you'd have no idea whether your present bird and the new bird will get along. That makes owning that extra bird a bigger headache. It would be hard to cash in on your exchange or guarantee or warranty contract/policy because it takes a very long time to finally know that the 2 birds are incompatible. Much longer then the time alloted. Also, you say that your bird is a plucker. You would have no idea whether having that 2nd bird will make your bird intensify that plucking. Dave says it all """It is also double the financial impact - don't even think of sharing play stands, toys, etc.""" I have multiple pet greys. 2 were given to me because of very serious problems they had. Was my #1 grey happy when, one by one, they each entered the picture? Absolutely not. They've been together a long time and they only tolerate each other. Of course, I should say that all of this happened when all of them were adults. In a way that made the situation worse because #1 bird had my total attention for 10 yrs. My opinion is *don't do it* but like I said, it's just my opinion.

I'd like to add my humble opinion if I may--I think both are ok as long as certain rules are adhered to. A bowl is good for a number of things, basically for the bird who decides to bathe/ drink at odd times. A grey doesn't bathe very much be it spraying, bathing, showering. The water needs to be changed when that happens. Body crud from a bird gets into the water. Soaking--There are greys and other species that absolutely refuse to eat certain foods if they're not moistened. I have 2 greys and one quaker that are like that. One of them even has to soak a peanut in water before eating it. This particular quaker has done this since she was a baby. She's never gotten sick. Neigther has my other birds. Again, the water needs to be changed. A clean bowl builds up sludge as does an unclean bowl. A person may not see it but it's there. Again, cleaning is necessary. How many times a person gives fresh water in one day is up to the person. A person who leaves a dirty cooking SS pot in a sink can see that sludge eventually build up through the day. A person can also feel it. Oxygen evaporates. Put an aquarium fish in an enclosed bowl or bottle and it'll eventually die. So, bowls and bottles have to be monitored. A bottle is different because water that's enclosed can become stagnent. Because this can't be seen, bottles are left unattended so cleaning is necessary. The bottle is good for the bird to drink from as long as the mechanics are frequently checked, basically the metal ball. Inside the bottle, calcium can build up and stay there even if the bottle is cleaned. A normal washing may not break down the calcium but the bottle is good as long as special cleaning is done. In order to see the calcium on SS, just look at a SS water bowl at the end of the day. Empty it and you'll feel a slight slime on the inner walls so that has to be scrubbed and removed. Some people do some of that cleaning with a mixture of vinegar and water. The bottle needs the same thing but many people just aren't used to using that mixture. Another thing is the living area of people. There's many places who's water is hgh in calcium. People won't drink tap water. They can feel it, they can taste it. That buildup can also be seen in toilet bowls. So, many people wind up buying lots of spring water from the grocery store. My opinion is that both are good if used and cleaned the proper way. Unfortunately, many people don't do that special monitoring. I have a preference but that's not important here. I've never had a bird get sick from bad water.

Even 1 to 2 hrs a day isn't enough time to spend with a grey. Dealing with a breeding pair of greys takes a lot of hard work and constant attention needs to be given. Medium to large sized parrots are completely different then very small birds that breed and hatch clutches without any human intervention. It costs lots of money to breed them plus a lot of equipment is needed which is also expensive. There's a good chance that the 2 birds won't like each other. The personality of a breeding bird can change quickly towards the owner. Lots of experience is needed when dealing with breeding birds but most importantly here is----- Your bird has been a pet and pet birds are totally different than breeding birds. Breeding birds aren't usually pets. Pet birds don't make good breeders. I would say , forget that idea because you're biting off much more than you can chew.

There's a difference between a baby grey and a grey who's reached the age of 2 or 3. Tht's the time when some greys start being destructive simply because they find out that they can be destructive. They're only doing what comes naturally. Their big thing is wood but other things satisfy them. If you have a bird who is destructive when you're not home and no one else is there all day, he must be caged because there's nothing you can do to make him stop.

I truly think it's time to stop the different expereimentations and guesswork. I think it's time to go to the vet. We have no idea how you performed your *surgeries*. It could be that infections have set in and all of the areas need to be examined and treated by a professional. We can only offer opinions and persnal experiences but that doesn't mean that they may apply to you. There are no vets on the board and visual exams are important now.

Well, I really don't have much faith in information that's given out by any company in order to promote their fantastic new product which isn't new at all. A very common thing that's done --especially concerning palm oil---is to give out information that has great test results. That's wonderful except for one thing, all of these test results are coming from work done with human beings, not birds. 80% of this article has to do with people. Other articles have been printed by other companies that talk about palm oil. I'm really not surprised that this whole article comes from Harrison's. They're already overpriced on everything they sell and this new product is extremely overpriced. Sadly, when some people see that a certain product that's been around a long time, is much more expensive, has a familiar brand name, then it must be better and it's wise to spend the extra money. I feel a lot better telling people about my and others' experience with certain products and depending on the results, how to save money. So, rather than get into debates about products that are judged by results that are primarily done on people, I'll just say this----When I find out that all african greys in the wild have decided to switch over to Sunshine Factor (after all, it's healthier?) , I'll start telling people about Sunshine Factor . Who knows, maybe I'll even use it.

Look at it this way---Is there a way to make his sound of Andy Griffith song or Gilligans Island louder because it's a pleasent sound? No. If you raised the volume of those great shows, would he whistle louder? No.The only thing you can do is seek out whats making him whistle loudly and stop it. There has to be something setting him off. No one can say what specifically that thing is. If you found it, you could stop whatever it is. I realize that it seems like an impossible job but raising or lowering the volume of certain sounds is next to impossible except for one thing--your bird may decide to lower the volume but that's up to him and you wouldn't know what's making him do that. So honestly, the only thing you can do is look for the source. PS---you may be paying to much attention to him when he does that. Usually, a bird who's ignored when doing unpleasnt things will ease up. Paying too much attention tells the bird just what to do in order to get your attention.

Usually, people come here to ask about how to stop a grey from screeching / squawking. Concerning greys, in the parrot world there's no better whistler than the african grey. Throughout the years I,ve told many people to not practice whistling with their greys because as the bird gets older, whistling will become much more frequent. They'll whistle to songs, sounds, other birds chirping, sounds in the house such as a kettle boiling etc. It doesn't matter whether people are there or not. Putting a blanket on a whistling bird does nothing because the grey is doing absolutely nothing wrong. He's just using his ability to make certain sounds. Other species of parrots continually make other sounds that are related to them. Sometimes it takes longer for a grey to start the whistling. With others it's a short amount of time. Honestly, there's nothing you can do to make a grey stop whistling. Whistling is a natural sound they make. Stopping a grey from whistling is like stopping a person from talking.

Many birds don't like it in it's solid form so you can take a bit, put it a micro, heat it up till it's a thin liquid, let it come back to almost room temp and put it on or mix it in many things, even oatmeal, veggies and many other items that your bird eats. http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?196827-African-Red-Palm-Oil

Making up for lost time and believe me, many birds can't do that after being clipped for so many years. Having bad clips in the past makes that situation worse. You on the other hand are lucky. Your bird hasn't been affected. Now's the time to set down a different set of rules. A clipped bird needs to depend on the owner for the simpliest to most difficult things. First off, any bird should never be allowed in a kitchen and there's many reasons why besides chewing things. Second off, as luvparrots said hard wood needs to be given ( hung in the cage). Parrots spend many hours chewing/destroying that wood. Habits---your bird needs to be put in his cage every time something bad happens. It doesn't need to be a long period of time. As far as the cat, parrots will annoy dogs and cats when they can. Your cat's feeding area needs to be moved to somewhere peaceful. Many people have this situations and some have gone to extreme of buiding bird rooms so the birds can stay in these large areas and do whatever they want. The poeople who do this usually have multiple amounts of birds. ***She flies wherever she wants*** You need to stop that bird's habit. Take control. It doesn't sound like you've got a good grip on things. You'll need to watch her more especially when you don't know where she is. Of course, I may be wrong about these things because as future posts are put in by OP, more facts are mentioned that weren't mentioned before.

Repeat from Rescue Board http://www.coloradoparrotrescue.org/ Very good rating---reliable---good reputation

http://www.coloradoparrotrescue.org/ Very good rating---reliable---good reputation

Hi and welcome to our board. Your Miko is a great looking bird. Nice red feathers there. We have many areas here that you can visit and I'm sure that most will be very helpful. Good luck.

The mixture isn't good for birds. It has much too much of fruits in it which aren't good for birds. Too much fruit means too much acid. Reptiles have a totally different metabolism. Better safe than sorry.

Try to interrupt this behavior and replace it with a less distrubing behavior. Install a bell on the top of his cage – when he does the bad behavior try to entice him into playing with something new. Greys are inteligent – try rotating toys in and out, re-locating perches, changing the location of things attached to interior of cage – provide some mental stimulation. Grey parrots require a surrogate ‘bad guy’ to beat up. Sounds like yours is using that part of the cage to satisify this basic instinct. In the wild they would be chasing off undesirable other birds from stealing nest materials or food. In a cage – you need to provide a villian for them to beat on. Wood toys are good. Hard metal bells are better. New toys are a good idea. Hard mineral blocks are good.

I have a TAG that's now 17 yrs old. I got him when he was 8 yrs old. His huge problem was extreme aggressiveness. The people who owned him were very frightened by him. His whole thing was serious biting. This bird would be hanging out on his cage and evry chance he got, he would attack the husband, the wife. He went out of his way to find them just to bite them.The people were very nice though. It wasn't their fault. Actually, we knew each other slightly when the husband and I were on another board. They couldn't approach this bird without a stick. Even then, there were attack problems. He inflicted serious bites but the people were patient. This went on for quite a while. He had his own cage which he knew every nook and cranny. They couldn't get near him. Getting him into the cage was only done by putting food in the cage. They were afraid of letting him out. Long story short, the couple had a baby. When the baby was about 7 mts old, the bird found out where she was and went after the kid. Luckily, he never succeeded in biting the kid. That's when I received a call from the wife who was crying and she asked me to take the bird which I did. They drove about 250 miles to my house. They brought the bird and the cage. When I got him it was obvious that he had no intentions of calming down so the very first thing I did was put in an order to Ebay and got another cage that was a duplicate of the cage of my other grey. 6 days later it arrived and I quickly assembled it and I immediately put him in it. Then I took his cage and dumped it out for recycling. Putting him in another cage immediaately killed off his familiarity with any cage so I had the advantage there. He went after my dog and my other grey. The only bird he feared was a male quaker I had who went after him. So, it took me and my wife a little more than a year to change this bird's temperament. She and I got many bites but we persevered. It was a very hard struggle. It was difficult because he was set in his ways. My point is that even serious biters can be calmed down and become family birds even though it may take a long period of time. Today, the bird's favorite place is on my shoulder and he'll stay there all day if I let him. He's always with me when I'm on the PC. I even forget he's there because he like to sleep up there. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/DaveVP/CopyofDSCN0164.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/DaveVP/CopyofDSCN0173.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/DaveVP/Shrimp--PJ-1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/DaveVP/SShrimp--PJ-2.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/DaveVP/CopyofDSCN0028-1.jpg

First I went to Amazon.com and typed in red palm oil and many pics showed up. The top one says 33 ounces--------$14.98 It's one ounce more than Swansons sold. They sold 16 ounces for $8.49 I got the top one. It looks like this. Click for larger image and other views Share your own related images Red Palm Oil (100% Pure) - 33.81 Oz. by Omni 3.9 out of 5 stars See all reviews (30 customer reviews) | Like 1357666230 false -1 42 42 41 (42) Price:$14.98 Deal Price: o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o Usually ships within 1 to 3 weeks. Ships from and sold by SimplyBeautiful

I think you were aiming your last post at me, not Danmcq. I'll take responsibity for my replies/ posts.

Just remember to make your husband do some of the grunge work periodically. You may think that all the cleaning feeding is making your bird happy with you but your bird has another toy around to play with---your husband. A child-----who's the child gonna be happy with? the parent who feeds, bathes, dresses them or the parent who plays with them? Remember when you were a kid? As far as your child having Downs Syndrome, don't think that the bird is singling out your daughter. The bird has no idea about Downs Syndrome. He does know she's a child. Your child did absolutely nothing wrong. Also remember that what's going on isn't special. Loads of people here have rehomed birds and those birds came to them with loads of problems, aggressiveness, plucking, being frightened, nervousness, fear of strangers, fear of hands in the cage, screeching and on and on and on. I realize it must be depressing but there are ways to make connections with rehomed birds. Loads and loads of people here can tell you their experiences, some worse or not as bad than yours. Baggage comes in many shapes and sizes and strenghs.

At that age, your bird has developed a strong personality that started a long time ago, long before you had the bird. It's very difficult to change that personality and feelings towards males and females. It's called *baggage* and every pre owned bird has it. Everything she does when you're not near her is normal for greys to do and has nothing to do friendliness towards a person. Greys are very aloof and are known for doing many things such as talking, clicking,tweets, whistles, sounds,and other *nice* things when they're not disturbed from outside interferences. You may think that those things are directed at you but obviously, when you react nicely to them the bird shows serious aggression. You may want to tell your husband to take over the chores that you do with the bird. You just can't know how the bird feels when you're doing those chores. Everything that has to do with your husband is pleasentry. As far as children---it's well known that greys don't like children. They're nervous around children. To them, children move too quickly. They will bite if children get too close. That only applies to greys that don't like children in the first place. That clicking---watch out! When they're doing that at you, it's a message. *Too clos and I'll bite.* Fortunately, greys are one of the few parrot species that will actually give out warning signals. All of the things that greys do can be checked out in our BODY LANGUAGE thread. ***communicating with me specifically**** Don't be too sure about that. Greys immitate many things and make up many things and they do this in the safety of their cage and fool people in thinking that it's aimed at them. . One thing you should do concerning chores, feeding, cleaning is to make sure your bird is out of the cage and away from you. I wish I could tell you more but a grey who's set in their habits and ways of thinking and attitude is hard to change. Your bird may have been a one person bird in the past. We always recommend that a very young bird who's just been purchased should be *socialized* into the family but adult birds who've already established their amount of baggage is more difficult to handle.

Type in AVITEC.COM On the left, look for PLUCKING/SCREAMING---click on it Third picture from left ( spray and jar in picture) click on it there's 3 choices 1---premixed bottle 2--small jar, powder in it (8 oz) 3--large jar, powder in it (16 oz) ------- Get either 8 oz or 16 oz jar with powder in it. Stay away from premixed bottle. 8 oz is enough for 1 bird. 1 rounded teaspoon powder to 8 oz room temp water in a sprayer. Shake sprayer ubtil the little lumps in sprayer break up. Heavily soak your bird down once a day. Make sure that his skin gets soaked. If any remains in the sprayer, use it on any other birds sitting around. Discard what remains at the end of the day. Rinse out sprayer and bottle thoroughly.