Dave007

Molting doesn't include flight feathers. They lose those feathers all year long and they fall out 1 or 2 feathers at a time.

******I realize that wasn't the best thing to do but my arm immediately bruised and I don't know what his problem is he didn't give any warning.****** Yes he did. That's why you need to study body language. It takes a while to study what your bird is doing.

Unless you have an extremely well trained bird that's been very socialized with many people, going to schools isn't a good idea. That type of socialization takes quite a while. Sinceyou're new to owning greys you'll have enough on your hands when trying to socialize with the rest of the family including 4 legged animals.

Aloe gel is different than aloe juice. The gel is a salve that's used for minor cuts, bruises, areas where feathers have been plucked leaving bare spots. It's not used with any water or other thinners. Aloe juice is the item that gets sprayed on and it's used full strength. Aloe gel can be purchased at pharmacies. If they're out of stock they can order it for you. Aloe juice can be purchased at major supermarkets such as Walmart and other similar stores. Sometimes they also have the gel. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/DaveVP/CopyofBothtypesofaloevera-1.jpg

Hi Bill Glad to have you aboard. I also have an older TAG--17yrs old. Really a great bird. Hope you enjoy our board. Welcome.

There's nothing to worry about anymore. The problem is over. Her health is fine. She's acting very much like a bird who hasn't even had a problem. Her calcium levels have nothing to do with what has happened. ( what disability??). Do you think that a person immediately goes to a vet after one of their breeders has had a clutch of successful fertile eggs that have all hatched and grown successfully? The time for the vet is next year when breeding is about to occur. The situation is now past tense. Let things go back to normal. It happened and now there's no obvious reason why it happened and a vet can't do an exam to physically tell you how it happened. There's loads of reasons why it could have happened. Your grey is a wild animal. It will always be a wild animal. This type of thing constantly goes on in the wild with multitudes of wild birds--all kinds of species, soft bills, hard bills, hook bills, parrots. Towards the end of autuum, I find infertile eggs in chickadee nests, titmice and once in a great while in hummingbird nests. Nature has done what nature has done and even vets can't overcome nature but they can definitely overcome your finances.

You're thinking about this situation in the wrong way. She's already showing disinterest in those eggs. She lays the eggs and then takes off, ignores them, then gets involved in what else is going on. A bird who goes through a 30 day cycle without any hatching she starts to reaize that the eggs aren't good. Normally, after 30 days or earlier she leaves them and goes about her business. Your bird hasn't reached that 30 cycle yet but she's already disinterested. I doubt there will be more than 4 eggs. I already told that to another person here and that's what happened and the bird was fine. She added nesting material and kept returning the eggs to the nesting area as soon as they showed up which was no good. She was told that she had to take the nesting material out but she said she was afraid of how bad her bird's mentality would be if she removed the eggs. They were simply infertile eggs as yours are. If you have 3 eggs in the cage right now, remove one when she's not around. She's not gonna lay an egg just to replace it. She probably won't spend much time looking for it. If she's due to lay another egg, it's got nothing to do with replacing a missing egg. When 3 days have passed remove another one. Do the same in approx 4 days and remove another one. Before you remove any of these eggs wait one week or 10 days from now. You're doing much more worrying about those eggs then she is. If she was worried, she would never leave them whether they were fertile or infertile and more than likely, she would bite you when you came near those eggs. As far as now, she doesn't care who goes near them. That's not me telling you that; that's her telling you that. As far as the vet-----that's up to you. If you feel worried, go to the vet and see what he says. I can remember a couple of birds that laid infertile eggs in the bottom of the cage and started playing with them like they were ping pong balls Eventually the eggs cracked and she simply went to the next egg and eventually cracked that one. Your bird doesn't sound sick. You're starting to connect Gabby's shedding of down feathers to what's happening. Just remember that greys lose down feathers all year long. So, the decision is yours. Most people here can't give the exact info you want so maybe a vet has to put you on the right track.

Sometimes charts can be very deciving especially when it concerns amounts of ccs in a feeding. The reason has to do with size of the bird. Doesn't it make sense that a large boned baby bird will eat more that a smaller boned bird? ******Should we just feed till he stops taking it (30-40ish), or should we bump him up quantity wise as the chart says due to the lack of the mid day feeding? As the weeks progress how does the grey actually refuse a feeding, does he turn away or will he take it and toss it back up. I am unclear on that part of this.**** This part of your post makes the most sense because you can't overfeed a bird and that bird will definitely turn it's head away or simply spit up formula if he doesn't want it. It's called *abundance feeding* Weaning is different with different people. Private breeders will feed formula until a bird totally refuses formula and eats more solid food and then you have the commercial breeders that will follow a time chart even though the bird isn't ready to be sold. Loads of people here have suffered through that situation. Luckily, the problem gets resolved. As far as the other things he's eating---well, that time is coming. Just be patient. If he refuses formula all the time, he's weaned enen though in the future he may like a taste for some formula. Let him tell you, not the other way around. There's birds that are 3,4,5,6,7 yrs old and they still like a taste and nothing's wrong with that.

Sometimes that happens when a bird has an intense itch, or a feather stuck in the skin which refuses to grow out causing pinching or an external irritation. I doubt that your bird is suffering from anything serious. He'll probably give you some Baytril. Just put some aloe gel on it until you get to the vet. If you have no aloe gel, just use some hydrocortisone cream. It won't hurt your bird. ON THE OTHER HAND---he might be doing this because he's annoyed with what you're saying to him. You know, feeling his oats.

Well, you've been told how to handle this problem. I never said anything about 20 days. I said 30 which is a full cycle. You're not into doing the right thing for a bird that's had an abnormal situation. You're messing up the bird's internal system. I told you to take out 1 egg every couple of days because she won't notice that one is gone. The eggs aren't precious. They're simply infertile eggs. You would prefer her to give up on them rather than you taking them away? Well, not every bird is the same. Some will give up on them and others won't. That's where you come in. A good trusting relationship has nothing to do with this problem. Why am I being so blunt about this? Well, this is a Health problem, not a Grey Lounge subject and if you really care about your bird, you should do the right thing by your bird even if your bird has a temporary lousy attitude. I'm surprised that you haven't figured out that what she's doing now comes into the category of abnormal. Other people in this thread have already told you that what's going on is very abnormal. Some have even suggested a vet visit. Some have spoken about possible problems arising from this

Yes it is. UVB ----Ultra Violet Bulb----Full Spectrum Lighting. There's other different bulbs (strengths, rays, heat)of the same type. Most of those others have to do with reptiles such as snakes, eguanas, certain frogs. We only discuss the ones that have to do with birds. All of these bulbs are usually purchased at pet shops or online. Dan will tell you more if you want.Full Spectrum Lighting provides the rays of light that normally come from the sun but for the last 25 years or so, house glass window, car window( actually, just about all glass) is filtered so those rays don't contain the full spectrum of light. Natural sun rays are beneficial to birds. Hope this helps.

Climate changes, sexual stimulation with things that have nothing to do sexual situation, Overactive hormones, A wild bird's instinct to do what nature intended. Diet. Lots of other reasons. Luckily enough, most female greys won't lay eggs no matter what. Some will. In this thread there's a 21 yr old bird that never did this before and most likely will never do it again. We've had others in the past who's adult birds have done the same thing. Even male greys have the ability to lay eggs in extreme conditions. I remember a few years ago when a guy came here. He owned a DNA sexed male who had laid an egg. To say the least, he was disturbed. He even thought that the bird had the same condition similar to hermerfidhites Before you bombard me about how or why males do this, simply start searching the net until you come across that subject. Tiels are the leaders concerning laying eggs with or without males around. Many die because of extreme calcium loss. Many get egg bound. Most that do this will not need any type of nest box to start them off. It's sad to watch.

As far the amounts of veggies--trial and error. He'll show you how much he wants by ignoring what's left. Same goes for carrots. Check the amounts after 2 to 4 hrs of giving. large amounts or smll amounts have nothing to do with the health of the bird. Some birds are nibblers. Others eat everything quickly. Fruit--look at fruits as you would treats. Fruit has no value. It's acidic, and goes right thru the body. No nutrition in fruit. Veggies--the darker the better. No avocados. If you eanna leave the pellets in all day, that's your choice but the bird needs constnt food always available. I told you why already. Some people love pellets. Others hate them and others are neutral. Just remember that no matter what kind of pellet you get it has a few small amounts of chemicals and artifical color. The choice is yours. None of these things will badly affect your bird.

And then fresh fruit/veggies a couple times a day? Veggies yes. Fruit, only once a week. Fruit has no great value. Pellets? There's pros and cons. The basic diet should be a decent seed mix available all the time. Don't expect him t be rushing over to eat the veggies. Remove the veggies when they become soggy, very wilted. It's patience, patience, patience in everything you do. No fruit that has pits in them( example-cherries) when other people try to come near his cage he freaks out. Nothing unusual. It takes time for a parrot to accept people and new things. Just remember that there's a post here cocerning body language and it was put there so people could understand just what their bird is thinking, feeling and intentions. On the other hand parrots may take to everything instantly. It has to do with personality, previous stuations and the fact that he's used to another living style. Again, patience, patience, patience. Enjoy your new family addition.

Ask your vet about this subject. Opinions concerning this may be harmful to your bird. Giving out advice that only vets should answer is our policy. There are no vets on this board. Feeding is a delicate subject especially when it concerns items that wild animals don't eat in the wild.

First off, concerning the biting--you should check this out and remember where you saw it especially because you're a new grey owner. It's very important that you recognize different signs. This applies to young and adult greys. In the beginning, it's not unusual for a grey to try and bite. In the beginning treats should be given through the bars because the bird will eventually recognize that your hand means good things. Fear lessens. http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?109373-Body-language-most-frequently-seen Getting used to things and making judgements---many people don't realize that a new pre owned bird should be left alone until it shows interest in the surrounding goings on. That means family, environment, feeding routines, daily usual family habits. A new adult bird should be in the middle of everything so he can watch every all that's going on. 3 days doesn't come close to the time needed to do these things. Everything is new to the bird and his/her only safe place is the cage he's familiar with. BTW, you're not alone in this. Hundreds of people go through the exact same situation. Greys are curious animals but you should watch for that curiosity to show up. You can't make him interested. Your other cage----it's an ideal size. it should be kept in an area where he can see it for about a week( approx. amount of time). Move it closer and closer. It may take longer than 1 week.It's a process to change cages. Put some new toys and some of his old toys in it. A grey will get used to a new larger cage rather than a new smaller cage. They enjoy the space. The same method should also apply to playstands. Feeding and access to food bowls/dishes--of course you should have access to them because the time is gonna come when you'll be feeding more natural foods such as veggies, some fruit etc. but those items do go bad after a few hours and need to be removed. He should have access to his food 24/7( a seed mix) because parrots don't eat like us. There is no such thing as breakfast, lunch or dinner. They eat all day whenever they want to. All parrots do this. Brands of foods--I won't get into that because getting one that a parrot will like is a trial and error process. Most name brand seed mixes are good but you need to find the right kind. Right now, you should immediately try out the veggies, frozen, fresh. That's also trial and error. Greys won't like all types of veggies but you'll soon find out which kind he likes. Veggies are better than fruit. Give fruit sparingly. Don't put vitamins in his water. They get their vitamins from the food they eat. Vitamins in the water only messes up the water. There's probably other things you wanna know about but for now, just digest the present info.

http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?189967-100-natural-aloe-vera-juice

You're encouraging the bird to constantly sit on the eggs. ****However, she still limits the visits to less than five minutes before she starts to panic a bit and then I have to immediately take her back to them.***** You shouldn't be putting her back on the eggs. No one ever told you to do that. 30 days is a complete cycle. Start taking an egg out every other day. Take that nesting material out of the cage. 30 days have passed and you're not allowing her to lose interest in the eggs. The only egg she's interested in right now is the last one she laid.

*******constant 76 to 78 degrees ******** Too warm for greys. Temp should be no more than 72. 70 being the better. Any higher will eventually cause dry, itchy skin and may induce greys to excessive scratching and posssible plucking. Even people find that 76 to 78 degrees is a bit too warm for themselves.

They'll start to sit on eggs as soon as they show up. That's why the eggs don't hatch at the same time. Each egg needs a cetain amount/time of incubation from both birds. A bird has an egg and will sit on the egg. 2 days later another egg shows up so that 2nd egg will hatch 2 days later than the first etc etc.Other birds do things differently. The eggs you eat are atificially incubated so all will hatch at the same time so you can enjoy your breakfast.

To answer the other person in this thread, if the bird was in the same cage or in a cage that had a divider, then both situations could stimilate the female to lay eggs. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Murf----Her charging you isn't unusual. Her trying to bite you isn't unusual. Put a small type of nest in the cage and when you can, put the egg in it. Don't mess with her unless you're used to serious bites. Don't have your hubby mess with her while she's like this. Both of you should leave her alone with the egg. Don't change the normal diet. Stay away from grains. As I told that other person in her thread a few weeks ago, she may lay 1,2 or more eggs. Leave them alone . Let her sit on the eggs. She'll tire of them within a full cycle which is 30 days but she may tire of them before that. Take any nesting material out after approx 28 days.. Leave her alone . No special fuss. Go along like nothing's happening. Leave her alone. Do the normal things you do. If you normally give a treat thru the bars then do that but only when she's looking for it. Don't constantly peek into the nesting area. If you need to do that, make sure she doesn't see you. Keep that other grey away from her. Act normally with him too. If the 2 greys are in a cage with a divider, either put the male in another cage or try to use something solid where that divider is. Believe me, if you mess with her, she'll do damage.

We've recently gone over a very similar situation here concerning a bird laying unfertilized eggs. The only difference here is that you need to keep the male away from her and you need to let her incubate thse eggs until she tires of them which may take about 3 wks. http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?199887-Got-molt-got-scratching-in-corner-got-kitchen-remodeling-got-egg.-What-next.....

I've seen that video before. It's been on youtube for about 3 yrs. There's more up to date videos that have since been posted. As far as the plucking you wanred to know about, He's been doing that all his life. He was a chronic plucker so there was no way to stop that habit. Lots of conversations and accusations on many boards have been brought up about the plucking. Some people blame her, some blame his environment throught out his life, some blame the food he was fed, some blame the fact that he was always with lab techs throughout his life. He was simply a chronic plucker who's wings were also clipped. She got him when he was approx 2 to 3 yrs old. There was nothing special about him. She's now working with another grey and also an amazon. Hope this helps you.

It's always a good idea to find and deepen the wealth of knowledge that's out there for the taking. I can see that you're feeling more content with what you've discovered today.

There are times when parrots do that because they sense alien beings and circular heads on extraterristial rays on foreign beings. many of those parrots are simply going up to the tops of cages to move things away to provide a safe and successful landing. The UVB/UVA lighting distracts and endangers the ships from landing orrectly. The birds also sense that human beings won't provide such a good landing. Humans are always afraid that the aliens will be taking them back to a different planet to experiment with breeding new strains of humans. They'll study habits and attractions and sexual cohabitation of beings that come from Earth.