Morana

Darn it! I have written everything down and then clicked wrong button and all is gone! :-(( So, the shorter version.. My vet stressed out the life long importance of keeping my Greys calcium levels normal and recommended good calcium supplement that doesn't mess the water up, it is odorless and without taste but I need to buy it on my own, because she doesn't have it there. She has something else at the clinic but I always ask for her recommendation-what she thinks is the best. She always has Zaks well being in first place. I very much trust her judgment and when I said about Tink mash she said it would be great but didn't say one thing or another. I'm buying the supplement and she knows it will be next week on my to-do list. It is just that I mentioned Nekton S and asked if that would be better (if it is vitamins+calcium so kill both birds with one stone, so to speak) but she didn't know about it and we didn't find exact content yesterday on line so I said I'll ask here,then tell her and then we'll decide if that could be better..We'll be talking through mail this week a lot so I'll ask all I need to know or think I didn't understand correctly. I don't like vitamin supplements either because a long time ago, when I gave them to Zak, he didn't drink much water as you said he wouldn't and they messed water up so I gave up on them. I was hoping something has changed with vitamins supplement since then. Don't know what might..just hoping.. About lamp,..If it can benefit him-great. I'll certainly keep on trying . It is not in his eyes and I keep it for about 3 hours a day. I'm (generally, but especially now) tens about all the not knowing I did/do so I am weighing my options. My vets word will be final regarding his health. Anyway, we have more talking to do later this week when the rest of the results come in. Tnx on all the advice, I'm gonna use it. If you have detailed content of the Nekton S please do write.

PPS: I have am Arcadia bird compact fluorescent lamp. 24% UV-B, 12% UV-A (20W). Is this OK? It doesn't say on it, so I'm not sure, -how much above the cage is optimal for Zak. Any suggestions? I newer found that people could agree on what exact distance should be.

I know for a fact that Zak has calcium deficiency because we were yesterday at Zaks vet. His bones look great (on x-ray) but calcium levels are very low so I must do something about it. Since I failed with veggies (for now), I'll try with bones and I'm gonna do Tink mash next week so we'll see. But I am a bit worried how both of that will go so my vet said, if all other fails, there are supplements of calcium for him to take. I forgot which one she recommended because she said she'll mail me the name. Also, I was thinking about vitamin supplements because of spots on Zaks feathers that I talked about when I joined this forum (tne name of the thread was something like: has anyone seen this kind of spots on feathers before?). We are still waiting fore some results from the vet but for now we have no idea why does those spots occur. As suggested by you in that thread I agree the spots might be from vitamin deficiency since Zak doesn't really like veggies. Also you mentioned this Nekton S so that is the reason I am now asking for it, and thinking about it because if Zak won't eat Tink mash (but I will constantly try), or won't eat "enough", and till we learn how to eat veggies and bones I was considering buying this vitamins to help with some of mentioned issues. And if it can help also calcium deficiency with the same supplement, than great. PS: I was talking of our visit to the vet in Health room yesterday if you wanna check it out. PPPS: zak doesn't want even to touch mineral blocks or cuttle bone

If anyone uses this vitamin supplement and if on its declaration are stated exact contents of this product, please write them here for me. I found this page http://www.arcatapet.com/nekton/nekton-s.pdf but I am wondering if there exists something else as well. PS: is this product good for a CAG with calcium deficiency?

So, is he trying to pick food from the bottom of the tray or just lying there? How is he beside laying on the floor? Activities? Eating? Sleeping? Please post pictures. If your bird is not acting normally (besides lying on the bottom of the cage)-not or hardly eating, he is not playful/cheerful as usual, not searching food down there, it is in my opinion a sign of trouble! In that case I recommend visiting you vet stat! I'm not saying this to scare you but you asked and in my opinion it is better that you take this seriously and go to your avian vet and check.. I saw my last parrot lying on the bottom of the cage when he was very sick. Nor him, nor this one ever did something like that- ever!

You'll be the first to know when the test results come in. About his health,..I'm grateful that (at least for now) it doesn't seem to be anything terribly wrong, and hope it stays that way. He has perfect bones but will need to take some kind of Calcium supplements. I new it will be a problem because in the past he didn't want to take his vitamins with anything, ate seed mixes all his life and he didn't have sunlight so that was expected. About my mistake with pellets, I'm grateful that it is not anything that could endanger him further nor he'll have consequences. I didn't understand that dosage on the bag wasn't just because they might get fat if they eat more than specified. It didn't even occur to me that there might be some other reason for this restriction from the manufacturer. I lived long enough in a Stone Age. And when I'll have a bit more time and have learned a deal more myself, I'll make sure that other parrot owners here in Croatia find out about proper care, nutrition and other necessities of their feathered friends! Of course, some were smart to found sites, like this one, on time but I still think that we are, in general, really uninformed and gullible about what our pet store sellers tell us. Did you know that last year came out our first book in Croatia and by Croatian author about CAGs? And I wouldn't even know about it either that one fellow Croatian (also on this forum) didn't tell me. I think he is reading the book now so I'm waiting for an opinion. I want to say, for all folks reading this, ignorance is a personal choice and it can make so much damage without us even realizing it! It can endanger lives of our loved ones. In some cases, it can also endanger us. This is a very hard cookie for me to swallow but I think is very important to stress out how important this is. Today the taxi driver said to me that they refused to drive one parrot to Dubrovnik because they thought the bird might just die from a ride in a car. To be more precise, that the amount of stress it will endure in a car ride might, more than coincidentally, kill that parrot, and any other for that matter. I suppose it could, if a parrot is very sick and very timid because it is a very long ride there, but I said that you can train your parrot not to be scared of it's own shadow, and you can also ride with her in the car and talk to her, keep her company and calm her down. If parrots would die from a car ride, I don't think that any of us would have a parrot. He was very surprised by my answer.

I will, tnx:-) And Karin, we now know a bit more about your birdie, but I strongly recommend numerating all my questions and answering them ONE BY ONE so we would have a better picture of the situation. This, what we now so far, in my opinion, is not nearly enough. Have patience and understand that people on this forum haven't seen your bird and can't guess what is wrong with him unless you write it ALL down. It may seem to you that you've said everything already, but I assure you, there are still some questions to be answered first. And please, post most recent (new) pictures of Momo. If you still can't figure out how to upload them, just tell us and we'll explain that too. I know it is a bit frustrating...-saying so much and still not in a way that everyone understands. Don't give up, I feel the same way most of the time ;-)

Here is our adventure.... but to say first-the rest of the results from today will come in on Thursday. Also, my vet is going away so as she suggested, her colleges will send the results to her and she will sent to me everything with explanation on the mail. Of course, in case of a problem I will call her substitute and will deal with that, but if everything is OK I really prefer to do everything through and with her. I was worried (a bit) this morning because I knew it wont be so easy to put Zakica inside the carrier without stressing him out. However, I was an example of restraint today, and because of it, I think Zak was much better off than he would have been with me panicking. I wanted to towel him this morning, and I tried 3 times(!!) without success, but he wasn't mad at me at all. He just looked at me with this look in his eyes like saying: what in gods name are you doing?! Do you know you are out of your mind!?". So I tried different approach. The clicker training that I did through this 3 days were enough for him not to be that scared of the carrier, and to get him easily on a towel (which I held in my hand). Then I put a meter (the one used on construction sites or at home) - he is insane about it (I disinfected it ) and I put it inside the carrier. When we approached the carrier he was very interested in the meter but I knew he wouldn't go in by himself so I angled my self like I am a bit squatting and this curve of my body prevented him to go anywhere else than into the carrier. He wasn't at all happy about it, so in the end, I literally had to push him (a bit) inside so I could remove the towel and close the carrier. He was freaking out and he lost some of his tail feathers. I think he would loose them anyway, because he is molting, but , either way, it wasn't easy to witness that. After initial horror he was better. Scared, but better. Zoo taxi was on time so we were like clockwork. Vet first took a swab from his throat/mouth.. I brought his first droppings from this morning. Absolutely the worst part was getting him in a towel from the carrier. He just wouldn't stand for it and tried anything he could to escape. Of course he could not but it was extremely stressful for us both. We had to draw blood from his wing because jugular vein just wasn't visible. You could see bare pink skin and no vein! It would be funny that it weren't my Zakica screaming away, wanting to go home. I talked to him this whole time and calming him anyway I could. I was not helping much but at least I was right there with him. Drawing blood was so expertly done he didn't even make a sound and blood immediately stopped and there is no hematoma:-) Afterwords we went to have him x-rayed and it was quick and he was less frightened than when he first came today. We put him in the carrier and waited for the blood work and pictures. He was OK at that point. Not scared anymore. Not much anyway. Pictures are just perfect. Blood not so much. I will try to translate what was done but don't hold your breath that it will make much sense. There were (and I hope these is international way of marking) PHOS, URIC, CA, TP, AST, test for Chlamydia, complete bacteriologic workup.. I think that is that. He has Calcium deficiency which I suspected. His TP and AST are high enough. My vet says (and don't take my word for it because I am lousy at remembering medical terms and more so in translating them) what ever it is with his liver, it is not acute and it had developed recent. Since x-rays are more than great, high levels of protein would explain higher liver enzymes and the red poop. And I can be almost 100% sure I am to blame for this because there are strict dosages to how much Harrison's pellets should be given daily and I didn't weigh them. Instead, I gave it approx. I thought, what could be the harm in it, he doesn't eat them in the same amount everyday anyway. He gets fruits, a bit of veggies , seeds and pellets, so why not? Well, that is why !!! I said that to my vet and she said it could explain those elevated factors but we'll need to wait other tests and if all else turns out to be fine, he'll just need to eat low protein diet and in 3 to 6 months check it again. There is, and won't be any permanent damage because of it but I am so stupid because of playing on my hand like that. Anyway, I am doing Think mash next week as planed, so vet said that will be great for him. And guess what, we have sweet potato in Croatia! I newer saw one in my life, but she says we have it! Go figure! It turns out I am ignorant in many other ways too;-) Lol The downside is that Zak is left with only two big red feathers on his but! It looks kinda funny and disturbing at the same time. Zak is asleep now. I am monitoring him. He drank water and ate some fruit (he didn't want anything else) and he'll be just fine...except of course of the mess I did. I hope tho, all the rest of the tests will be fine and he'll be a healthy,and just a bit "poisoned" , funny but-looking little birdie;-)

No problem for the translation ;-) No, he is not. When he was around 23 years old he went to Germany, without knowing to even say hello in German. Stayed there for 6 years working and carrying a dictionary and comic books all around, he learned. The problem is that it was a long, log time ago so his German is not even close to how it was back then. But he did his best :-) He will be very proud when he hears what you've said ;-) Tnx

Hahahahaha! I had the same experience. Phone is ringing but by the time I could get to it, it had stop ringing. In a second, there it goes again! I answer no one is on the line. I thought it was a prank call to annoy me. After a third time, I didn't have time to put down the phone and it rang again. We'll we know whose fault was that!;-) After a while, I really had to change the phone, altogether, because it was ringing all the bloody time! Now it is better... ;-) Although, now he has other sounds to trick us, but I refuse to change the microwave oven!

Welcome! Love to hear more about you and your Grey:-) Pictures please:-)

Looooool! She is a little mischief!! :-D Great story! Tnx for sharing. I just wanted to ask.. Aren't you a bit afraid that some cat or some other animal, or better yet a person is gonna come inside? I live in the attic apartment (it is a third floor) and I have cats from my neighbor climbing on my windows and getting inside. No matter how little the window is open, they are going to open it enough to slide in. Once I opened a bathroom door, and imagine how close I were on peeing my pants when I saw something black moving in my bathroom- before I got to switch the lights on! It was raining outside, window was less than an inch opened and the kitty figured it is not such a god idea to be outside while it rains!

Tnx. Well the problem is just that. Some are re sized, some aren't, but I can see them all only as thumbnails. Can someone please check if they can see them in their "right" size when they click on them?

Here is the translation. You all know my English is also not all that great but I'll do my best. One thing, tho. Karin, some sentences are written like you are talking to someone who already knows your situation. I mean, sentences are a bit hectic at times, you jump from one point to another without linking it and the whole story is, in my opinion, still missing some key details. This is in no way a criticism. It is a request that you add or correct whatever seems a bit off in my translation. Comments in the brackets are my own comments. Her sentences are translated almost literally so there wouldn't be losses in translation. Few adjustments about the context tho. Here goes.. Momo is 9 months old. He has a handicap - his neck is curved as is his leg. It is not a problem for him and the vet thinks that's because he got used to it. 4 weeks ago Momo and Kikki spent 6 days at their vet. (Next sentence is really hard to translate because it doesn't have that much sense to me and this is my best estimate of it): Momo ate poorly because he used to be hand fed in the aviary. As a result he lost weight. Even before that his feathers weren't really pretty because he started loosing them when he was approx 13 weeks old, and his tail feathers "broke" (I don't have a better word for it). Feeding in the aviary was satisfactory. At our place (what ever that means-aviary or at home(?); or the term aviary was meant like a cage in the house but I doubt it because of a later reference in the text to its dimensions) temperature was at 22 degrees Celsius. At vets place was only 10 degrees Celsius. I thought he was molting. Our vet suggested we do a PBFD test because of the red feathers on his belly and feet. Test was negative. When both of my birds came home (approx a week later), Momo lost a lot of feathers. At the beginning, he lost 10-15 feathers, 3 black (can't say whether those 3 are a part of previously mentioned 10-15 feathers, or it a separate event), many gray, big ones, along with gray little ones which were from the chest and the belly. He lost almost all the red ones from the tail. He got vitamins and minerals. Now he looses less feathers but still looks pretty shabby. Eventually he grew back many new feathers, and among them, 9 big black ones. We don't bathe him, only mist him- sometimes. Also we have a humidifier. Humidity levels are at about 60%. The birds have an aviary of this dimensions: 2 x 2 x 1 meter. They also have a big tree (I suppose it is a branch) for climbing and ropes for playing. In the morning Momo gets Mikes Mash, some fruit and veggies. In the afternoon he gets a seed diet. Both of them are gaining weight. Momo has 430 grams, and Kikki 470 grams. Aviary is cleaned daily. Hope this is detailed enough. I'll send pictures as soon as I figure out how to upload them. Thanks and regards, Karin

Thank you Judy! You can be sure that I will keep you posted :-) I'm trying not to be anxious about the visit, hope it stays that way or he'll pick it up. I'll do my best everything goes as best as it can.

IMO, the lower beak looks a bit too long. I had similar situations with Zak before (although not such a large chip) and he really had problems with his beak because of it. He had overgrown beak (upper and lover). It varied from time to time which is in worse shape- upper or lower. Now, when he has safety pumice perch and chews various toys much more he rarely has any problem with his beak and if he does, it is also with his lower part, so I cut it of. I don't know how to translate the thing with which I cut it of, but I cut it very carefully. I know how it is supposed to be (the beak) and I just make smaller corrections. With this I am saying, I think your Grey may have a problem with overgrown beak but you shouldn't treat it yourself! Especially if you are not sure what to do. Before I started clipping Zaks beak I saw my vet do it several times. I do it now on my own because Zak don't really mind when I do it. He is not too happy about it, but he is very happy about not going to the vet to get beak corrections. He has a nice looking beak for a good while now:-) However, treating the chip is not a permanent solution for overgrown beak as it weren't for Zak.

I'm sorry, I really don't get the tame frame. I have a difficulty understanding you. Maybe someone else will understand better. From my end I can only offer that you write everything, to the last letter, in German, describing everything in great detail and I'll give it to my father to translate it.

So let me get this right. You went to your vet with both of your birds 4 weeks age. Momos condition got bad 3 weeks ago? And when afterward did you go again to the vet? You didn't answer a lot of my questions. Please, go through them again and answer them all. Without your answers it is hard to comment on the situation. If you are having problems with the language please say so, we''ll try to deal with that too. I use this on line dictionary, so see if you could use it http://www.eudict.com/index.php?word=procjena&lang=gereng#

The cake is great! Linus looks good:-) Happy Hatchday! I wish him many, many healthy hatchdays to come!

And I forgot to ask. How long ago were they at your vet?

I just don't understand this sentence: "apparently he spent 6 days with the vet.". What does it mean? Did you know they were at your vet? Why were they both there? And why were they there for so long? Do you know what happened during that time they were at the vets? I've got to ask, don't mean any disrespect, -do you trust this vet? What tests did your vet do? Did Momo bathes at all, in any way? Please post pictures. In my opinion 10 degrees Celsius is cold. I would freeze my ass of, pardon my language. Why was the temperature so low? And, don't know if you answered this somewhere before, but how long do you have your birds? Did they have previous owners?

I also stay on all day but I'm not always at my computer.

Hi! We could be more helpful if you would be more precise. For example.. What does "a lot of feathers" mean? 2-3, 5 a day,..give us an estimate. How long ago did you take Momo to the vet? Is it an avian vet? What does his diet consist of, exactly? Is he preening a lot? Maybe chewing his feathers? How long ago did this condition appear? Could you please post some pictures? It would be very helpful. Does he bathe regularly? Were there some new, stressful situations/changes recently in his life? Please try to be detailed in answering those questions. PS: don't be desperate-not yet anyway;-). We'll help anyway we can. There are many knowledgeable members on this forum who have a lot of experience with CAGs/TAGs and some other birds.

Well it can be that, or he wanted to be picked up and played with, just like with Beaker:-) It is a great story:-)

Hahaha! Yes, I totally agree! And look at the way the Iranian guy is trying to touch her! I would bite him as well! Haha Judy said it, he got what he deserved:-P