Jayd

Greater Vasas are notable in the parrot world for their peculiar appearance, which includes extremely truncated bodies with long necks, and black to grey feathers. Their beaks range in coloration from a light cream to a dark brown with everything in between. They are approximately 20" (50 cm) long, with a wing length of 11.77 x 12.68 ins (299 - 322 mm). The plumage is generally a brownish black with a gray tinge to the wings. Immatures look like adults, but with more brownish plumage and a black iris. They have light colored eye rings which turn brown as they grow older. The beaks of immature vasas start out almost all cream to light brown, but is turning dark brown as they mature. I'm checking on breeders for you... http://www.oldworldaviaries.com/prices.html [Texas] Jayd

Thank you Dan! Maggie here....your comments and insight reaffirms what we believe about Joe and a Grey's abilities to understand and comprehend...

Nancy, Judy responded the same as I did when I read your post. Her reaction was the same as mine and others. Next time please be more detailed so we will understand what you meant......

Ray gave the proper response ! I decided to check one more time before I left . Don't trim the wings !!! Let nature take care of them..... By trimming you are only prolonging the length of time it takes to regrow a proper set of full feathers.. This is something myself and other members have dealt with....

Sorry I can't help you lol... Maggie says "eat them with Mayonnaise:cool:, there good" LOL

Hi, Raw diced, sliced whole and dried, Steamed lightly, steamed in rice, pasta, beans[cooked] with greens, carrots and peas. You can make a salad or mix with nuts and rice....Thanks Jayd

The majority of legitimate scientific researchers and avian specialists all say onions, garlic and raw tomatoes are not safe for parrots. All fruits are not created equal. Example: an avocado is a fruit and has a seed but is extremely toxic to parrots. A banana, a fruit, is loaded with potassium which is great. Peppers, all colors of the rainbow, have capsaisan which is extremely helpful to parrots and humans alike. A watermelon is basically water and sugar and has no redeemable nutrient value but you can eat the seeds as opposed to a peach, cherry, etc. The problem with our parrots is the amount of fruit they can tolerate. A Grey can tolerate very little and an Amazon, twice as much. Your Lories live on nectar. Spinach and tomatoes bind calcium so very little should be given to our parrots. This includes garbanzo beans. The chemical make-up of fruits vary with your citrus, your melons, your water fruits, causing a fast flush through Grey's systems, basically washing needed nutrients. The systems of an Amazon or a Macaw utilize the components of fruit in a different manner. These parrots can absorb more of it. Any food, seeds, pellets, fresh fruits and veggies should be given in moderation. It's the balance and the amount of each type of food given that is more important. People like to think, if it is safe for human consumption, it's safe for our fids. Once again, our fids aren't human and we have to relearn to treat them as what they are, birds. One last thing, let's not assume without proper research. To assume makes an Ass out of U and Me. Bell Peppers- Vit A, C and some Minerals. Helps circulation & promotes Clotting Cayenne Peppers- Vit A, C, B-Complex, Calcium, Phosphorus, Iron and Capsicum. Good Anti-Inflamatory and good for Arthritis. Also great for the immune system Jalepeño Peppers- Vit A, C and some Minerals. Helps circulation & promotes Clotting Banana Peppers- Vit A, C and some Minerals. Helps circulation & promotes Clotting Cherry Peppers- Vit A, C and some Minerals. Helps circulation &promotes Clotting

I'm sorry, please don't be up set with me. We've never [on purpose] fed these foods to a parrot, they are on the no-no list. Remember "Accumulate" Better safe then sorry" our opinion. Tomato's: Always cook them, cooking removes most of the acid which is very harmful to our fids... Onions, whether cooked, raw or dehydrated, contain sulfur compounds that, when chewed, are hydrolyzed to thisulfinates. Thiosulfinates decompose to a number of disulfides, including dipropenyl disulfide (or n-propyl disulfide), which appears to be the most toxic disulfide. These disulfides are oxidizing agents that can cause hemolysis or a rupture of red blood cells. The toxicity of onions is based on their disulfide concentration, which is increased when they are grown in soil high in sulfur. Sulfur is a widely distributed element found in abundance in the soil in both free and combined states. In addition to the compounds found in these plants that cause red blood cells to rupture, resulting in anemia, they can also cause irritation to the mouth, esophagus and crop, and can cause ulcers, although this damage is probably more severe in mammals. The sulfur compounds found in these plants cause red blood cells to rupture in animals, and dogs, cats and cattle seem particularly sensitive to this problem. Because birds have nucleated red blood cells, and mammals do not, it is thought that this somewhat protects them from the affects of Heinz body hemolysis. Heinz bodies are pieces of oxidized hemoglobin that are found on still-intact red blood cells (RBCs). If enough RBCs are ruptured from the ingestion of these compounds found in onions and garlic, this will result in anemia. Red blood cells are responsible for carrying oxygen to the tissues and for removing carbon dioxide, as well. As the number of RBCs decreases, the animal becomes weaker, and the gums and tissues also become pale. The good news is that the red cells can be replaced by the body as long as the hemolysis stops. In dogs, it takes several days for the red cell count to reach the lowest point after a single large exposure. In chronic exposure at low doses, the anemic effect is lessened because RBCs, also called erythrocytes, are being regenerated as they are being destroyed. Allicin, which gives garlic its odor, is also a strong oxidant. In rare cases, this chemical can be dangerous and can cause Heinz body hemolytic anemia, as well. Although I have not seen any scientific studies performed on any avian species, there is the chance that disulfides could also cause this Heinz body hemolytic anemia in birds. For that reason, I feel that is unnecessary and potentially dangerous to feed birds onions, leeks, garlic or chives, as they don't contain any nutrients that are vital for the health of our pet birds that cannot be found in other food items. Margaret A. Wissman, DVM, DABVP, Avian Practice

This is good......Big Smile

Here's Joe's first post, you can check for update's on the forum, I hope it might help. It's been 2yr's. Jay Rescue #1 JOEY Joey: Congo African Grey Parrot Present Age: Four years old Abuse Type: Mental and Severe Psychological (No visible sign of Physical abuse) Background: We know the pet store that Joey had originally been purchased from. He had been weaned and clipped, never allowed to fly. For the next two years we had no record and we have not been able to speak to the previous owners. After purchasing Joey and with some help also with help from Joey himself, we have been able piece together some of his past history and his previous owners. His previous owners were a well-established young couple. The female was never fond of any types of pets, did not fit her lifestyle. Joey had favored the male and there had been a bonding but it wasn’t a healthy bonding. Shortly after getting Joey, which brought problems to the marriage, the male was more interested in maintaining harmony than integrating Joey. This brought about bickering over Joey between the two owners with the female getting more and more agitated, putting him in a small room by himself, being ignored by both of them except for cage cleaning, food and water. There was a lot of arguments that took place within earshot of Joey, possible marital abuse, yelling at Joey by both of them, cage being tapped, arguments about whether to keep Joey or get rid of him. At this point, the owners decided, (not mutually) to get rid of Joey. So, at this point, Joey and his cage was taken to a pet store where the owner agreed to hold him for awhile and let Joeys owners visit him for a while (which was wrong). They only visited him three times over the next six months, arguing in his presence each time. At this point in time, we took Joey into our hearts and home. The Homecoming: We didn’t know this young Grey’s name, so we called him Jim (Kirk) to go along with Spock. At this time, we had enough birds for everyone in the city. He was a quiet bird and would sit in his cage in the back and be soundless. He would let you change his water and food (he had been on seeds only diet). He would also shake if you came near the cage and would constantly head-search while chewing his toe-nails. He was extremely neurotic…he was a small bird and looked like he might have been stunted from lack of a proper diet. We introduced him to everyone and we did not attempt to hold him. We talked to him and talked to our other fids in front of him. If we saw that he was being extremely nervous, we would go out of our way to stop and talk to him with a “Hi Jim” etc, and we were slowly discovering the depth of his psychological and mental abuse. We left the cage door open whenever we were home and awake which at this stage was 24/7. One day, Jay left the room and in the most concerned voice, Joey called out “Hello! Are you okay?” When Jay came back, Joey was standing at the open door looking down the hallway, looking for Jay to come back. He would also say “Hello”, “How are you?” at this time. He also started talking to himself…bringing up his past two years. While shaking badly, he would say things like “Are you going to feed me?” “Get a lawyer”, “You can run but you can’t hide!” “LIAR!” He would make crying sounds…he would do this while we were not in the room (plus other things too sad to say). During this period, we were introducing him to all sorts of fresh veggies and fruits. (It has taken over a year to get him to eat veggies and fruits) Besides his ruminations, he also started talking, calling to the other fids, calling us by name, singing but always reverting to his old self and chewing his nails and shaking. Out of nowhere, as Jay and I were walking by his cage, he looked Jay straight in the eye and said, “I’m Joey, NOT Jim”. He told us this twice (imagine us with our jaws on the ground) and we had to start changing his name on our threads. Now and into the Future: Joey lets us hold him and play with him more each day. He is coming out of the closet so to speak…he is an ideal parrot in a number of ways but it is all from his abuse years. He has built his life on his own routines. He eats at the same time each day, he talks at the same time each day, he preens himself at the same time each day…he definitely has obsessive-compulsive tendencies. For the last two months we have not heard him say anything from his abusive past. He has a growing vocabulary and strong cognitive abilities which we believe has roots in his abusive years. He lets us hold him when he wants to. At times, he is very cage-territorial and he stays on his cage. He will perch and let you take him from his cage for a few moments only. We have a perch on the outside of his cage and he likes to spend most of his time looking out the window. He is extremely vocal and interacts with Spock and Salsa and lets both of them eat and drink from his bowls and he plays tail-chase with both of them on his cage. He is very insecure anywhere away from his cage. It is an ongoing process to try to get him comfortable enough to stay away from his cage. He has attempted to fly on four-five occasions to fly and they have been disastrous. This is definitely due to the fact that he was constantly clipped. (We have set out pillows on his common landing areas that is more often missed than hit.) At times, he will revert to something that triggers his bad memories and will pin his eyes and draw blood out of the clear blue. Once he snaps out of it, he is very affectionate and loving. The Future continues: On-going Progress: In the last couple of weeks, Joey has made some amazing changes. To everyone’s surprise, when you open his cage in the morning, he will hang from the top of the cage, wait for you to support him with your hand and involve you in beaky play. He will hang with one foot and grab your hand with the other (Yikes!) and play roughly while talking to you. (Non-Sexual) He’s molting and he’s also found out that a human finger is excellent for rubbing the pin feathers at the bend of the leg where it touches the body. In the few moments that he lets you hold him, he has leaned against our chest (on his own) and cuddled. Now and Beyond: Daily, you can still see the pain that he has endured. When he thinks we are not observing him, he reverts to his shaking and nail chewing to a lesser extent. His most recent trait that the past is still current in is memory is when we have to leave, he will let out a couple of loud contact calls and puff up to almost twice his size and stare and you and call while you are leaving. It is so sad… They NEVER forget…any abuse is a major and daily part of their lives and they live with it….it is always there to haunt them.

Think with your heart. Yes with time and patience your situation can only improve.......Jay

Maggie here: Joe's confidence is growing by leaps and bounds in the last week. He is exploring new areas that were formerly only Spock's territories, becoming more assertive and certainly shows no compunction when it comes to letting us know what he wants. LOL... He is becoming more vocal about asserting his needs but he doesn't use new words or sentences until he knows they are correct. (I think he waits until we are gone to practice his new speeches). We are a little worried because now, Joe knows what bye-bye means, which means he wants to go out the door. When Jay is on the patio or when Jay is in bed with the door closed, he emphatically states "I want to go bye-bye! See Papa! See Papa now!" If Jay is in bed, I have to open the door and show Joe that Papa is night-night at which time Joe will say "Good night Papa". If Jay is outside, I have to bring Jay in to see him. If it is daytime and I am in the bedroom with Jay for what seems like a long time to Joe, he will call out to Jay "Papa, Are you ok?" The other day, Salsa was flying around, yelling like a pterodactyl (Like Dayo) when she came too close to Joe. Joe just turned to her and said "Watch it!" and went back to eating his good nut. Too funny! What is really amazing to us is Joe applying body language with verbal responses. When Joe dances, he bobs his head up and down. What he does now is answer yes and moves his head in an up and down motion. I asked him if he wanted a good nut and he answered "Yes" with a nodding of his head. This morning, I asked Jay if he was ready for his breakfast when Joe turned toward Jay (he was sitting on his shoulder) and nodded and said "Yes" before Jay had a chance to answer. We almost died laughing while Joe looked at us like we were crazy. He appears to be applying body language with appropriate verbal responses. He has done this on more than one occasion. I can't wait to see what Joe has in store for us this week... Maggie and Jay

Momo, The advise these people have given you is not only correct, it is true. Everyone knows how much against re-homing we are. But, in this case, not just for you but for your Grey, you should really consider it. We have spoken in PMs and on the forum and I know, understand and realize how many problems you have going on in your life right now. I advise, find a new home for your baby.If and when you find someone, make a complete break. Don't call, don't visit...let your baby start fresh, the same as you must. When the right time comes and conditions are right, I am sure there will be a loving parrot waiting for you. Please heed what everyone has posted. Jay

Thank you....It's good to know your a "Parent" and most forum members are "Parronts".....

Nancy, Please don't respond for any other member! Leaving your cage door open when you go to work isn't very wise. Jayd

Sorry, in my opinion, this isn't good, Please research it....Thanks Jayd

(Maggie typing for Jay)...All that has been written is so much more than true. My Friends..I'm old, I'm tired, time is precious. I fear I won't have enough time to pass on whatever help I can offer. As far as being ornery, no one can hold a candle to me...but there is often a reason behind it. I always try to do whatever is necessary to correct any misconceptions. I have always preached that the people of this forum are the greatest. My favorite quote.."The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one..." Live Long and Prosper

Nancy, would you please post Photo's of your parrot's? We would all love for you to share them with us... Thank you:)

This will be my last thread on this subject. The point I was trying to make was: Any two "tiels can produce wonderful combination. Our Hammy,[Orange-cheek] and Pretty Mama,[Cinnamon] gave us, a White-faced-Lutino, a Cinnamon-Pied, and a Fawn. Each clutch they gave us assorted babys. I mentioned in other threads that a male cockatiel inherits one X chromosome from his father (let's call this chromosome "X1") and the other from his mother ("X2"). Each of these chromosomes can carry sex-linked mutations. The sex-linked mutations that a male inherits from his father will occupy X1, and the ones he gets from his mother will occupy X2. The important thing to remember here is that the mutations on each X chromosome are always inherited together. The mutations on X1 will travel together to the next generation (likewise for the ones on X2). Let's say that a lutino male and a cinnamon pearl female have one male chick. One of the chick's X chromosomes (call it "X1") will carry lutino (from his father), and the other ("X2") will carry cinnamon and pearl (from his mother): X1: lutino X2: cinnamon pearl If this male is mated to a grey female, these are the possible results: Male chicks: 50% grey split to cinnamon pearl (if they inherit X2) 50% grey split to lutino (if they inherit X1) Female chicks: 50% cinnamon pearl (if they inherit X2) 50% lutino (if they inherit X1) Note: It is not possible for any of the female chicks to be just pearl, just cinnamon, or lutino pearl. She is limited to the combination of mutations on the single X chromosome she inherits.

No one knows how hard it really is till it happens to them. The pain the tear's the blame, especially when it's out of your control such as our friends in country's with out proper vet support. Hind sight is wonderful, at the proper time.....My friend, if you wish for another parrot, by all means get it, you knows what you need to do. And don't blame yourself. Jay

Wow where's the photos?

You can see it in their eyes, they've got the fever!!!!! Welcome Jay and Maggie and the flock

Hi, go to your profile, [left click your photo in any room] On the left column see "My settings" scroll down to "Edit Signature" left click and follow instructions....Thanks

There is a little saying that's said here quite a lot..."It's better safe than sorry" but in the end, we have to do what we feel is right and hope for the best. Good luck. Jay