danmcq

The Topic of Wing clipping has resulted in some seriously flawed reasoning and logic against Wing Clipping. A small list of this flawed logic: Statement: We take away their natural environment—the sun, the rain, the trees, the sky, the airways. We take from them the companionship of their own kind: the natural understanding of their own kind, the comfort and sense of safety in the flock, the mate they select for a lifetime, the young they would raise and protect, love and care for, til grown. Flaw: Based upon this reasoning, no one should own a Grey at all and it should be outlawed for them to be held in Human captivity completely. Wing clipping seems to be the least offensive thing any owner of a Grey has committed!! Statement: To intentionally keep any wild creature (bird, mammal, amphibian, etc) as a "pet" is grotesque and simply unconscionable, since they deserve to live their lives as nature intended; and to deprive a bird of flight by clipping its wings is cruel and unnecessary, unless the health and well being of the bird dictate otherwise." Flaw: Based upon this reasoning, we should not only stop clipping, we should free all Animals, Birds and Fish we have!! I could post literally hundreds of flawed logic examples of reasons given by people against you clpping your Birds wings, but will stop. As in all Topics and Reasoning of this World, there are cases of extremism, as above, that defies logic and common sense. In these cases, there is no sense in trying to "Reason" it out with them. They are extremists against wing clipping and do not have any desire to reason at all.<br><br>Post edited by: danmcq, at: 2007/09/15 17:03

I thought I would start this topic due to some Forum Members use of the term "Domesticated" in reference to African Grey's being questioned by others. When "Word" usage is called into question, the first place to check is a Dictionary for the final decision on the correctness of it's application. Domesticated is defined as: From "A free Dictionary by Farlex 1. To cause to feel comfortable at home; make domestic. 2. To adopt or make fit for domestic use or life. 3. a. To train or adapt (an animal or plant) to live in a human environment and be of use to humans. b. To introduce and accustom (an animal or plant) into another region; naturalize. 4. To bring down to the level of the ordinary person. Domestication Process: A general concept formed by extracting common features from specific examples of the domestication process. The act of withdrawing or removing something from it's natural environment. Category Tree: Human action ╚action - Removal from the Natural environment ╚change - Behaviour, Diet, Environment and characteristics ╚separation - Separate from the Wild and Natural State and bring into Human controlled Breeding, rearing and training environment. Based upon these definitions and processes described above. An African Grey Bred, Hatched, Raised and brought in to a Human Home or Environment, is considered a Domesticated Bird. Therefore, the African Grey's we Breed and Purchase, are in fact "Domesticated".<br><br>Post edited by: danmcq, at: 2007/09/15 14:43

Yes...Yes....B) :cheer: :silly: Darnit I had a great Gif and it was just 3kb too big to post here...guess my fun's over.<br><br>Post edited by: danmcq, at: 2007/09/15 02:45

Judy - The answer is YES!!! Hahahahahahaha {Emotions-000200C6}

Thats wonderful news after the wait you've had busere !! He is a beautiful guy and obviously already playful. :-) Thanks for the Photo.

Hahahahah, Kid's are soooo funny. Thanks for sharing that!!! Karma for you!! {Feel-good-0002006E}

Oh boy, what sublime innuendos these old geezer's go through to try and hide their meanings in front of us younger kid's. B) {Emotions-000200C6}

Welcome Arrior!! They do start toying with and eating regular food like veggies, fruits nuts etc. at that age. It by no means, means that they are even close to being weaned. You should keep up the regular scheduled feedings until he starts eating and drinking water on his own. He will start spitting out the Formula probably at around 14 or 15 weeks. That is when you start seriously observing his eating and drinking habits to see IF he is completely weaned. They will still beg for food by making their baby noises and jackhammering their beak as if they are staring, but then when you make the formula they will just spit it out :-) You have to carefully monitor their weight at all times also to ensure they are maintaining their weight.

Welcome Bindi!! Thanks for posting your Introduction. If you want a Grey that bad, it won't be long .... :-) We'll look forward to hearing more from you.

Very cool description of your tatoo's Llama and also meaningful! :-) "Mc" being of Scottish desent, what is your Dads?

Is being kept in a Cage or in a House and being Domesticated to a point of non-survival if freed or escaped, critical to a bird being a bird? Perhaps the act of Humans just taking birds from the wild open airways and flocks is also a critical arguement we may need to explore. I don't think anyone here wants to "Argue" clip or no-clip. The main concern of each bird owner is the safety of the bird and the environment it is in. If the owner did not take safety into account, what an abusive owner that would be! Rather than trying to commence heated debates. Why not contribute by sharing experiences and helping other forum members? This is my last post on this topic if it is going to maintain an argumentative flavor.

You can purchase Stainless Steel Padlocks at most Hardware stores. I did for my Cage also. To keep children out and the Grey in. :-)

Toni - I agree with you...just let this dead dog lie. I will not post to this topic again. :-)

David, You are Dogmatic in wanting to carry on a debate, aren't you? Using the number of Posts from individual Members is the one and only way to obtain data to substantiate the "majority" opinion of a Topic. Your wanting to use the "unknown" vote of non-posters is severely flawed, unless you go strictly by percentage of the votes cast by those whom posted. Based on the Percentage of Votes for non-cussing, the pro-cussing lose by a landslide. Sadly, your premise does not hold up.....

Thanks Makena, that is a very good video on handfeeding. You can actually watch it's crop fill to a golfball shape as they feed him. :-)

Hi Rhaul, Even if you need to travel several miles (not knowing where you live) to get to a Vet. Your Greys life could depend upon it as others have already indicated.

Welcome Llama!! Thanks for posting your introduction. Your in the right place for information on Grey's and a great environment with many members having several years of experience with Greys. We look forward to hearing more from you. :-)

Thanks for making that clear. :-) Yes, we have the same floor scanning caution with Dayo our Grey now also. I slightly nudged him when I turned around a week ago. He had snuck up behind me at the kitchen sink. I think it scared me more than him. :-) Isn't all this a fun learning experience?

Hi Jawad, Just out of curiosity. Why did you purchase all these African Greys for breeding purposes, when you have no experience with even one pair of Greys? You have taken on a great responsibility and also probably spent a few $$$ on this new endeavor that may put the Greys at risk. I am not looking down upon your actions, I am just curious as to why you have taken this path. :-)

Hi BBlack19, Thanks for the additional info on what he is plucking. My grey Dayo plucks his baby down sporadically also. This has slowed down though, now the it is pretty much gone. We'll look forward to hearing more from you on what you tried and what worked or didn't. :-)

CursingLlama wrote: Your right CursingLlama, there are many opinions and literature, but not any real scientific studies for proof. Your comments regarding how the Grey is socialized and the environment as a whole that it is brought up in. Is the key factor in all humans, animals, birds etc. Just pick the breed of Grey you prefer size and look wise. Then just love it and nurture it. :-)

HI Dicky601, Snoozing in bed with you is a very dangerous thing to do with your Grey. Just your leg by chance moving on to him could smoother or squash him. I thought I would mention this, due to many people not even thinking of such a thing. :-)

That's a nice story Mark. :-) So, it took around 6 Months for the flight feathers to molt and re-grow? This interests me, due to Dayo being clipped by the breeder after fledging for only a few weeks. Which is not nearly enough time to build the balance and confidence they need. That is pretty good flight control to be able to maneuver like that in such a confined area.

Thats good news falconeer. :-) Yes, beaks are always growing, just like finger nails. Please keep us posted on the progress and a photo once you have a camera.

Welcome Kareema!! Thanks for the nice introduction. We look forward to hearing more from you about your new Grey and yourself. There is a great wealth of information and experience here on this forum at your disposal.