Dave007

**Cleaning this cage was actually fun,*** Hmmm, Really, is that so? Did you get very excited and stimulated. Another thing --- was it as good for Cleo as it was for you? Do you feel closer to Cleo now?

That's exactly what I'm saying. When a female does that, it usually has to do with an over abundance of female hormones which most parrots don't have.

Greys will shake for different reasons besides bathing. It's usually a sign of nervousness or temporary fear or a disproval of what's going on. Raising the temp that high could hurt your bird plus it doesn't dry them off any quicker. The bird should be left wet in order to preen the wet feathers. Eventually, the bird's feathers dry off. The only thing you need to do is make sure that the bird isn't around any drafts whether they be warm or cold drafts. Lots of birds shiver. Sometimes they shiver when a new toy or bowl or lots of other changes are introduced. Some shiver when they're around new people.

A female grey shouldn't be mated with any other grey unless it's used as a breeder all the time. If the bird is used as a breeder all the time, any bonding with you and the bird will drastically decrease or disappear. If your bird has been a pet for all these years, it should remain that way. It's a cruel thing to try to change a pet bird into a breeder. Usually, a breeding male and female are together way before actual breeding occurs. First, they have to deeply like each other. At that point they bond with each other and they don't care for human contact that much. As far as age, a female doesn't lay eggs until the whole cycle of breeding occurs. It's very unusual for a bird to lay an egg just because of age.Breeding happens around the age of 6 yrs and older. The male needs to be that age or older. As far as eye color, it seems that you're going backwards. As a grey gets older, the eyes turn more yellow not the other way around. None of this has anything to do with finding out his specific age other than when the eyes are yellow, he's an adult. As far as sex goes, only a DNA test that's done by a vet or animal labratory will tell you if the bird is a male or female.

This is an excerpt from the BATHING sticky located on the HEALTH ROOM main page Sixth, never towel dry or hair dry him after a bath or spray. The longer he stays wet, the more he benefits from the bath/spray.

Hi SI Considering that this will be your first medium sized parrot, it would really be better to get a young bird. There's lots of birds that are pre owned and most are adults and yes, they do need homes but they also have habits and certain attitudes which a novice may not be able to cope with. Some may be good habits, some maybe bad habits. Those habits and attitudes can't be changed no matter where the bird lives. A pre owned bird is for people who've been around parrots for a while and know that they may be dealing with a bird that comes with from other owners who've developed the bird's personality. It's easy to say *get a pre owned bird* but if that bird doesn't work out in a new home, it's off to the next home etc etc. It's much better to deal with young birds because you'll need to experience the newest and natural personality of the bird and the bird will need to experience the habits, surroundings, people and general hustle and bustle that'll go on. Greys are very complex birds and it'll be a learning experience for both of you.

Well, as far as #1, you're right concerning*center of attention* but if you're in that bedroom as much as you say you are,then you're the constant*center of attention*. But if you go to school or work everyday, it wouldn't be a good idea for your bird to be cooped up all alone in that bedroom. Also, the idea of immediately using a large cage is good. BUT, I see that your parents are there too. Do they wanna be involved with the bird? If so, it would be a good idea for the bird to be amongst where they are too. It's always good when all the people in the house are constantly seen by the bird and visa versa. When the tenant leaves, it's your apt. but it may be a good idea if your parents had contact with the bird because you'll be going out and be gone for long periods of time. In general, the bird should be a *family bird* As far as #2 , the larger size zupreem is good but the bird may not think so. So prepare yourself for possible experimentation. Remember all the other foods too such as veggies, fruit once in a great while, some human food once in a while. Artificial sunlight bulbs can be purchased at different places--pet shops and online but they 're expensive. The Bronx often puts SI on the right path.

The item you're thinking about is absolutely wrong for any african grey be it very young, adolescent, adult or mature and old. The main reason is that the product is a dairy item. No african grey can eat dairy products, especially white dairy products. That product contains milk. It will make any grey very sick and if given enough, it will kill the bird. This is a basic formula to use. It doesn't have all the things in it that it should but for the short amount of time you'll be handfeeding, it should do the trick 1---cook some peas until they're very soft or buy some at the store. They should be the kind that says sweet peas which are bigger than early peas 2---get a package of small carrots in the store. Overcook them until they're extremely soft. 3---get some white rice and cook it until it'very soft. That usually means that it will be softer than a person likes it. Put all the items together and mash them thoroughly until it's very lumpy and gooey. Make some oatmeal--any kind. use 3 tablespoons of oatmeal and add 3 tablespoons of the above mixture all together and stir. Make sure that the mixture is warm. At this age, syringe feeding isn't necessary because any type of soft formula type food that you give has to be lumpy, not creamy and lumpy soft food doesn't go thru a syringe very well. Fill a teaspoon with the mixture and let him scoop it out with his own mouth. Do that 2x a day, maybe 3x if he'll accept it. When the evening comes, dump whats left over. Each day make the same amount of fresh mixture and repeat. ***i only feel bones, there is no meat on him, is this normal?**** I can't answer that. He may be undernourished and actually I'm not surprised. Right now, it's important to focus on getting him to eat a variety of different things. Fill a teaspoon with the mixture and let him scoop it out with his own mouth. Do that 2x a day, maybe 3x if he'll accept it. When the evening comes, dump whats left over. Each day make the same amount of fresh mixture and repeat. Make sure he has solid food there all day. *****One last thing, he stayes the whole day on a perch, should i remove it and put a towel in the bottom of his cage. Thank you for all the help. ***** If your bird is perching and going to the perch by himself, it shouldn't be removed. If he's constantly falling off the perch, you just need to lower the perch and yes, you can also put a towel across the bottom. Always have the perch in the cage if your bird is always on it PS---one other thing, after feeding that type of mixture, expect his droppings to be extremely soft. PS---Keep that bird out of cold drafts.

Oh boy, I'm glad that you posted that picture. That bird is no more than 3 1/2 mts old. That's the reason that your bird is falling on the floor. It doesn't know how to fly yet. When the actual age of a baby bird isn't positively known, the only other way to see the approx age is by the color of the eyes. Your bird's eyes are completely black. At that age, a bird is very frighted of everything which will cause a bird to nip. **** He might be a baby that isn't wild caught. And I am afraid that he is not weaned well. *** You're absolutely right. Yes, it's probably necessary to hand feed that bird but the bird should be also having other types of solid food in the cage. The problem is that the item you wanna use is for women who are breast feeding. It's not for birds. If you can get to a pet shop, they should have different brands of instant bird formula. Another home made mixture is 3 tsp smooth peanut butter 3 tsp Gerber oatmeal cereal 1 Banana 3 tsp apple sause 3 tsp Gerber Baby creamed corn 3 tsp Gerber Mixed Vegetables 3 tsp plain Yogart Mix it all together thoroughly You can get any kind that's available. They're mixed with water. There's many brands. If you can't get those items, you'll need to get the thickest baby formula available. Even try to get one that's lumpy. If you're gonna give feeding, you'll need a bent tea spoon to do it. Don't try a syringe if you've never used one before. The formula should be slightly warm. Stop feeding fruit, because they're acidic. Just vegetables and you should expect your bird to not like all of them. They should be the hardest you can find such as carrots. The vegetables you get should be as dark green as you can find them. Again, I don't know what's available in your country but if you can find some parrot mix, get it. He'll need some solid food. Maybe parrot mix isn't availablle near you and you may have to travel a large distance to find a pet store. Pet stores have parrot mix and other things for birds. Luckily, your bird won't need many formula feedings during the day. Maybe 2. Than as time goes on, maybe 1. Basically, the ideas I'm giving you are because I don't know what's available in your country

Sorry, but there's no picture. Try again and tell us if you have a problem. We'll then tell you how to post a picture.

I replied to your question in your other post about the juice.

I'm really not sure. I looked and it says that it has additives in it. Also, it says nothing about it being 100% pure. From what I can see, those items in the pic are used by people for internal problems . The other item that they advertise is a gel that comes from the aloe Vera plant. That's something you wanna avoid right now. The item I'm talking about does the exact same thing. A person who uses aloe juice on a bird usually has a large container of it at hand. Those items in the pic seem like little bottles of liquid and I have no idea about the price. If you do get it, you should choose the unflavored one.I enclosed a pic of aloe vera juice and aloe vera gel. The gel is used like a first aid cream. Tiny dabs here and there. The juice is sprayed all over the bird's body so before you buy it, look at this pic and the type it is and go to a pharmacy and see if they can order it for you in a large size. The juice on the left is 1 gallon, can be bought from Walmart or other pharmacies. The 1 gallon jug in the picture costs $9 http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/DaveVP/CopyofBothtypesofaloevera.jpg

Homemade-----10ft square

Some people bring them outside in a cage. Some have outdoor aviaries to put in backyards. Some people make their own. The birds are outside on perches the owners have put in and the birds just perch on them. Greys that live in flocks are perching birds that don't fly around too much when they're outdoors in the trees. But pet greys have established a bonding with their owners and those owners are providing protection against natural elements, namely predatory birds. Greys and other parrots are always on the lookout for predatory animals. Greys have to be taught to live indoors but when that happens bonding with the owner happens so a bird feels secure. The person provides security. Staying with a bird outside provides a safety net because the bird knows that it's with the flock (owner) it's only known. As far as being cruel, I don't feel that it's occuring and the reason for that is how the bird reacts with the owner after being brought in. The bird is happier, more playful, more friendly, more active. That doesn't sound like a bird who feels like cruelity was applied. The bird is getting the best of 2 worlds--indoors and outdoors. ((hypothetical )--Dangling a carrot? Many birds don't like carrots and other things that are normally attractive and many birds never bother eating when they're out. When I put my greys in my outdoor aviary, about the only activity that goes on is amongst themselves. I've never seen any of my birds straining to get loose and the reason for that is I've provided protection for them. So cruelty is basically in the eyes of the beholder. No one can read a bird's mind. No one knows what he/she is thinking but to me, all of the positive things that go on after the bird is back in the house shows me that they probably didn't feel cruelty.

First off, there are no eggs taken from nests. Poaching is done by luring a flock of greys down to the ground where unseen traps are placed. Poachers don't bother to climb trees in order to get eggs. All of the adult birds can easily fly so poachers don't harvest or incubate any eggs. The captured birds are ready for immediate sale to illegal traders. The contents of eggs which are in nests which are located high in the trees simply never hatch. As far as wildness, memory of violence, intergation---Any violence that occurs is done on the ground.The grey you have in your home right now is a wild animal. It will always remain a wild animal. If your bird escapes from your house, it will fly away because nature dictates that it should be in the wild. This also applies to other species of parrots. This is why 98% of all parrots that escape can't be retrieved. This is how the idea of wing clipping was invented. Cut the wings off and the bird can't fly which is totally unnatural. But, cutting the wings off a bird will make it an easier target for predatory birds. Parrots are prey animals and they're always on the lookout for predatory birds A so called young wild parrot that's captured and sold has the same amount of fear as any other parrot that came from a breeder/petshop. The reason for poaching is to sell the birds for breeding purposes. There's videos of how this is done and this is what the thread starter was referring to. The way to have different personalites of greys to manifest itself is done in a person's home. Anyone who has pairs of breeder greys at home aren't usually bonded to the owners. They've only bonded to each other and they put up with their owners minimally. Those birds can't be kept as pets even though they live in a person's home. Anyone of these pairs of breeder greys will seriously maim or kill a pet grey if that pet bird is put in with breeder greys. The pet pet bird has a human imprint. The breeders don't. These breeder birds are most successful because of non connection to the owners. I have 3 pairs of breeders at home and those birds will only tolerate myself and my wife because they know where their food comes from. I've had them for many years and I make sure there's no involvement with people. People going near those birds will get serious bites. AND, none of those birds were wild caught. My pet greys won't go near them and I make sure that there's no interaction between the pet greys and the breeder greys. Someone sufggested taking the bird outside and releasing it. That would be signing the bird's death warrant. The flock is gone and the predatory birds are just waiting to pick them off because they're alone and this case, very young and that young bird wouldn't know what to do. Prey parrots are a favorite food for predatory birds such as hawks, eagle, owls and peregrines and other predatory birds that can't survive in a person's home. The predatory birds are meat eaters. Greys aren't.

What you're seeing on Youtube is the trapping of birds in bunches most of which are adults. They were being sold for breeding purposes. Here in the US, it's against the law since 1992 to import or export parrots from other countries. What you're seeing in those videos is also outlawed in the countries you're looking at. People taking those videos work for the government who are also trying to stop the capture of parrots. What I am saying that even if your bird was wild caught it's still too young to have a deep connection with the wild. A parrot needs lots more time in the wild with the flock in order to be classified as a wild bird with wild bird mentalities and wild bird personalities. At 6 mts that doesn't hasn't developed completely. All of what your bird is doing also happens to the birds that are bought from breeders, petshops. Many come home, yell, scream, squawk, growl, bite and won't let people near them for quite a while. **but tries to scare me with his peak**. That's simply a warning to stay away. Actually, you're making much too many judgments all based on owning your bird for 1 or 2 days. Anyone making those same judgments after buying a grey from a breeder/petshop would also be told that in one day, no judgments can made. It's gonna take your bird quite a while to relax and be open to attention from people outside his cage.

4 or 5 mt old bird. Wild caught? I doubt it. The bird is a baby and simply needs lots of talking to and needs to get used to everything that's all around him. That may take weeks. Patience is needed. People here will tell you how they handled things when they first brought their 3,4,5,6,7 mt old bird home.

Get a mister--fill with the juice----turn nozzle until liquid is a stream---get as close to her as possible. 12 to 16 inches is good. Aim stream between wing and body. Use 1/2 squirts. Just press trigger 1/2 way, not all the way.( it's called spritzing) The wing doesn't have to be open. The fluid will shoot between the inner wing and the body. The feathers located at the body under the wing aren't waterproof so that area gets soaked quickly.. In the future, you can use that 1/2 squirt method anytime you're bathing your bird for whatever reason.

10 yr old bird 0nly did this for the last 6 to 8 weeks? Never did this before? That's called acute plucking-------which will definitely stop. That's what your bird is doing. Chronic plucking applies to a bird who will never stop, has started early in life and has adapted to a world without feathers. How long before this happens? Can't say but if you do the spraying thing constantly (SOAKING her down to the skin plus under the wing at the skin) it should ease up gradually and you'll start seeing those tiny feathers coming in and as soon as they come in, the skin will get less irritating. She's now very dry in that area and that area needs moisture. Very cool water should be used. Greys like very cool water. Put up with the squawking, growling, nipping--it needs to be done. Why is she doing that? Can't say but something set her off and it periodically happens and there's no quick answer. Ps--if you're gonna use the juice, use it straight. Don't mix with water and chill it abit before using.

Unfortunily, your bird isn't molting in that whole breast area. Signs of molting aren't as extreme as your bird's breast area looks right now. There should be loads of those 2 feathers on the body right now (that last picture) which should be covering that white area by now even as molting continues. Actually within 1 or 2 weeks after molting begins, that area already has new feathers in. I don't see any except for the neck. The only reason they're still there is because your bird can't pluck them because of their location. You should start spraying your bird with water or aloe Vera juice and do it frequently--everyday. Soak that area down. I can see she's picking feathers on her lower parts of the legs. The tail and wing feathers fell out because they were dead and it was their time to be replaced. This is what a bird should roughly look like 3 weeks after molting has started and continues. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/DaveVP/Image35.jpg

????Is the bird a hermaphrodite???

http://www.birdtricks.com/ is probably one of the worst instructional aids in the parrot world. The business been around for a long time, has a terrible reputation and uses bad methods of dealing with parrots. I know nothing about the first link you mentioned even though I checked it out. There's nothing that stands out concerning what's in it but I will tell you that there's loads and loads of similar *teaching material* on the market by many, many writers and for that reason comparisons can't be made. Basically, they all say the same thing. Trial and error is necessary because what will work for one bird may not work for another bird. That's one of the basics that all these booklets/DVDs don't bother to mention. If you haven't gotten your grey yet, the important thing to realize is that the only similarity between my grey and the grey you get is the color of the feathers. As Talon mentioned, there's methods here but the big difference is that here there's loads of different methods that deal with each thing. That's not something you can get from a book.

--------------

A nut cracker. Instead of cracking open the center of the nut, go to the pointed end, crack it open and twist. Don't have a nut cracker? Use a pair of pliers. You may need to do it a couple of times before you do it correctly.

***Doesn't some red factor have to do with plucking?** No, it has nothing to do with plucking. Some greys have a couple of red feathers spread through the body. Those red feathers are there because of an excess of a certain gene that has to do with color. It's the same gene that controls red tail feathers. The excess gene comes from the parents or grandparents. Many very young greys who haven't had their first molt will more than likely molt out those feathers and the feathers that replaces it will be the normal grey color. If a bird has a couple of red feathers that remain after a few molts it will remain red but the bird won't get anymore. This bird has that excess gene from the parents and those feathers will remain. The bird is approx 12 yrs old