Dave007

There's really very little information that you will get here concerning breeding pairs of greys. There are people here that breed greys but don't give out information when they feel that the people who are asking aren't experienced. Nothing personal here but the welfare of chicks, adolescents and adults are very important to us. This board is basically for people who own pet greys of all ages be they well, injured, old, young, weaned, unweaned, clipped, unclipped, food diets etc etc. We have many stickys here in each room and you can benefit by reading as much as you can.

You shouldn't allow that to happen even if your grey puts up with it. That can lead to slight infections and could cause permanent baldness. Preening is one thing. Pulling out feathers is another thing.

Do you know how old a pair of grey breeders must be before they can mate? Do you know what special dietary needs for breeders? Do you know what kind of personality breeder greys must have? Do you know what type of attitude exists with breeders towards each other? Do you know what type of area and needs a pair of breeders require? Do you know what their possible attitude is towards other pet birds? Do you know anything about the pair's bonding with each other? Do you know whether a pair of breeders will be friendly with their owners? Do you know whether incubation is the normal thing to do? Do you know how to deal with greys that won't let you near their chicks? Do you know how to deal with breeders after mating season is done? Do you know how to use incubators when they're needed? Do you know anything about the special nestboxes that are needed? Do you know whether breeding, handfeeding and raising budgies is the same as dealing with much larger parrots? Because if you don't know that, I'll tell you that there's a world of difference. Do you know how many times grey breeders will mate in a year? Do you have medical kits that are needed to use on injured breeders or their chicks? Do you have a special vet called Avian Vet that will always be there when needed? Well, you wanted to know. These are just some simple questions that people who breed greys usually know about and it takes a lot of time to learn them. All of the above are much more important then what size area they need.

Sorry, but you'll need to put in a better picture. Too dark. Can't really see what you're talking about.

That's a great feeling especially when they decide to go to sleep and you don't know it.

One my mine has a low *click* Another has a low *cluck* The last one doesn't do anything. He just bends his head down.

The wings on his right side are perfectly formed and fit into the body well. The feathers on the left ( what's left of them need to grow back. When they do, they'll have a natural blood supply in them. During this waiting period, the good feathers on the right will eventually die, fall out and replaced with a new set of feathers. When and if your bird gets the proper and ciorrect amount of feathers like the right side, they too will naturally fall out and immediately be replaced with new feathers. The reason for the long process is because when a bird is losing wing and tail feathers, they're not molting. Losing those feathers occurs all year long. One here, 2 there, one or 2 on the other side.Tail feathers come under the exact same catagory and they die out at any old time of the year just like wing feathers. Don't get down because he won't fly right now. I say this because there's a chance that even when he has a full set of even wing feathers, his desire to fly around may be hampered. He simply may feel very happy being a bird that doesn't fly. One of my greys was totally bald from the neck down when I got him. It took 3 yrs to get him back to normal. He had relapses with the plucking. He's now fully feathered, looks like a beautiful grey but he'll never fly. He has no desire to fly. He's out of the cage all day but he won't fly anywhere. He never had feathers in the first place. Was caged 24/7 for 4 yrs.

*****Will cutting feathers short one time actually cause them never to grow back? ***** Most of the time, no they will grow back unless specific damage is done to the area about 1 inch from where the feathers will grow. Follicles could be deadened and shafts can be seriously damaged. In your bird's case, the bad side will grow back but as that's happening, the feathers on the right side may naturally fall out as the blood supply dries up. That's what makes flight and tail feathers fall off. So, basically it's not an even match until coincidence happens. Both sides will have feathers on each side and they;ll be even. It may take a long time for that to happen, maybe a year. If a bird has to be clipped, that shouldn't happen until the bird is at least 7 to 8 mts old. In that time period wing muscles and general body strength builds up. Coordination is learned. Flapping which is strengthing the muscle area happens. As those areas develop, the bird will get the desire to experiment. There will be accidents but in general that adds to the bird's ability to maneuver around and avoid things. When wings are cut on a bird who's too young and who hasn't devloped properly, the only thing that happens is the bird falling and continuiosly bouncing off the floor. Eventually,that tells a bird not to try that again. The longer he doesn't try it again the less attractive it is to try flying. Also it's abilities are hampered. Wing clipping causes serious physical and well as mental trauma. Birds are birds, were born with wings and should be allowed to have those wings. If that's inconvinent for a person, they shouldn't own the bird. If a person owns a cat and the cats scratchs things up in the house and the person decides to have the cat declawed, they shouldn't own a cat. Animals should be allowed to keep what they were born with. There's a reason why animals have these things. By the way, I don't believe in wing clipping but in the health room, 4 different articles are posted about wingclipping. All are stickys. They're all objective.

I'm sorry that you're in an odd situation but unfortunately, the claws won't grow back. He's managed to do as much as he can but he may be able to overcome the main problem you're worried about. How it happened ? No one can say. It could have been an injury, an attack by the parents when he was a chick ( some parents kill their chicks) or congenical. What you can do is take your bird into a quiet area where he and you won't be disturbed and put the bird on the floor and start practicing with him with the steppinfg up process. do it once a day for about 2 weeks then 2x a day for about 2weeks then 3 times for about 3 weeks etc. It'll take a while but but constant practice will help him gain confidence. Do all of these things on the floor. As time goes on and his grip is much stronger, you can lift him off the floor and as time goes on, you can go higher.

Hi Beau. have a nice birthday and say hello to your mom and dad from me.

***intelligent communication a little lacking.*** Just what do you think is intelligent communicanion? There's different ways of communication. 1--by association 2--by mimicing 3--by natural means #1 is when a person does soimething and uses human language. Eventually, when the bird sees something or hears something, he will verbalize what he's heard in the past when seeing or hearing something. Take that particular sentence and scramble it up and the bird won't repeat it until he hears it like he's used to hearing or seeing it. #2 is when a bird starts saying a bunch of things that have no connection to what a person is doing or saying. The bird is simply going through it's repetitive sounds that he has the ability to say from past learning. This may happen in the early morning and late afternoon and before sleeping at night. #3 has to do with the bird constantly speaking to a person by using it's own language to communicate. It goes on all day. It takes a while for a person to learn parrotese. This is especially true with greys and other parrots that can talk but never will talk. They too communicate with people. They are definitely as talented as other birds who use other methods to communicate. As someone already said, the simple method to getting him into his cage is to have a treat that he can't resist. Make sure he sees it and slowly to keep his visual attention while you put it in. Some birds are gonna be obstinent about going in a cage. They're not gonna follow orders like a domestic pet. As far as crapping in the bowls--very easy solution here. Remove the bowls so he won't hit it. if you put toys in the exact same place and the bird will play and crap in the exact same location because birds don't diffreniate between items. The bowls and toys are simply in the same area where he craps so there shouldn't be in that area. You can prove that to yourself by taking those bowls and putting them somewhere else. Another simple example of learned by association communication------ When leaving the house, you look at the bird and say ***See you later*** and leave Eventually the bird will see you going and say the exact same thing. No more, no less. Repeat the whole process, when coming home you say in a sound that the bird can hear * How ya doing** Eventually, the bird will repeat the same thing when you walk in. No more, no less.

First off, read this http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?109373-Body-language-most-frequently-seen Since he doesn't wanna go in his cage when you need him to be in there, find a very special treat that he can't resist, nuts, nutriberries etc etc. Make sure he sees you holding it and make sure he sees you putting it in his bowl ( do it slowly so he doesn't lose sight of what you're doing. He'll probably go in and you can close the door and go to work and slave and toil all day.

The ideas you're having are backwards concerning the night time. You can cause your bird discomfort. First off the day temperature is alright but at that temperature, his skin needs to be checked periodically for dryness. A lower temperature is ideal but it's probably will cause your family to be a bit uncomfortable. Concerning the night time, the temperature should be allowed to go down to 66 to 68. Putting a space heater or heat panel will keep the room too hot. Parrots thrive on lower temperatures at night. In the wild, they sleep at much lower temperatures than 66. Heat panels or space heaters will sometimes cause the bird to have breathing problems so forget about adding heat at night. Their nattural body heat fom feathers provides the right temperature.

I'll say it again--humidifiers are made for 1 thing--provide humidity in an area. If a person wants or is thinking about creating a sterile area for their bird, it isn't gonna happen. The dander/dust that greys give off have a large amount of bacteria, none of which is harmful to that bird. Concerning mold, the one thing that all mold needs in order to start and continue to exist is dampness- Humidifiers won't kill off mold. Mold is cleaned off by the person and if a person can't keep up with the mold, it's gonna keep on growing. Pharmaceutical products that are mixed into the air aren't good for birds nor are there products made for birds that advocate doing this. What can be done to an item in order for people to benefit from it doesn't mean that it will benefit birds. The major things that's important in a bird's area are 1---keeping up with the cleaning off of the dust on cages, tables, shelves etc 2---providing the type of air that's necessary for a particular species. Some need very dry air, others need very humid air, others can handle any type of air. 3---exhausting( pulling) the floating air in a room that always stays in the air and floats around. That air can't be seen. All homes have it, all rooms have it. If aa person wants to get an ultra sonic, do it. If a person wants to get a non ultrasonic, do it. The main thing a humidifier will do in a bird area is to change the texture and density of the air.

Just about every grey that bathes won't get fully soaked unless that bird decides to open and spread it's wings so that water gets to the underneath skin. Any fluid on the wings just rolls off because those feathers are waterproof. If that underneath skin in a bath doesn't work or happen, a little help is necessary. Usually, a sprayer is used. Aloe juice does absolutely nothing on waterproof feathers. You can keep an empty sprayer around the bird for a few days so that he/she sees it. Leave the bottle alone. After a while you'll take the bottle, fill it and try out different ways of spraying. That doesn't mean he/she will like it. Many birds never get used to a sprayer but it's something that has to be done periodically and a person shouldn't be afraid of all the squawking and growling the make the may make. It's actually harder on the person instead of the bird. So, here's the thread to the aloe juice and how to use it. http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?189967-100-natural-aloe-vera-juice

Vicks concentrate is a fluid that's put into room humidifiers in order for the room's smell penetrates and assists people who are having temporary breathing problems--stuffy nose usually from a head cold. It's often used in babie's rooms to help temporary sinus and breathing problems. Vicks concentrate works on the same principal as a hand held inhaler which is put in the nose to clear out sinuses and open air passage ways. Basically, the room is very dry and needs humidity. The concentrate can't be used in bird's rooms. Only the water in the humidifier is used. So basically, the concentrate is used for humans, not birds. The basic use for the humidifiers in bird's room is just that---provide and increase humidity in the room. many people use it in very dry areas. In my opinion, the best ones to get are the ones sold in pharmacies for human use. They come in different sizes but all are relatively inexpensive. There's pictures in this thread of different models. No humidifier cleans crap and bacteria. Ultrasonic humidifiers won't clean up any areas. They aren't used for cleaning purposes. The big difference is the price. Humidifiers that are used for bird's rooms are relatively inexpensive.--$39 to $59 in pharamacies First picture is machine closed. Second picture is the machine open.--This one is $39

If this plucking has been going on for a few years, more than likely your bird is a chronic plucker and the habit is ingrained into the brain. They actually feel more comfortable after the plucking. There's 2 kinds of plucking Chronic which I already explained and Acute which has to do with a bird who will pluck for a while and then completely stop and who may do it again much later for a specific reason and stop again. Normally, they don't like plucking themselves and will stop as soon as what was causing the plucking subsides. Ripping up sweaters isn't unusual. Those sweaters are used frequently on cockatoos and they only work for a while. As soon as it's off or they mutilate it, the plucking starts again. That's also chronic plucking. Cockatoos are well know for their serious plucking habits. Collars have been used on pluckers but if the bird is a chronic plucker, they won't work either and may actually harm the bird. No one can tell you how long it'll take to get used to it if at all. All greys are different from each other. If you want a suggestion as far as another item to use, you can purchase a parrot Flight Suit which fits just like a sock but it's stronger.

Well, I don't know how vets in your country deal with certain problems but I can tell you the vets here would consider paint chips and metal in the stomach extremely serious problems. It would be the first on their list as far as what to do concerning that situation and we can't tell you if your vet was pulling a fast one on you. We have no solutions here about that problem nor would we wanna guess at it. It's an extremely unusual situation. As far as not liking each other, that's very common even with the same species living together. Parrots will either like, dislike or not care at all about the other parrot. As far as bonding, if you've had these birds since they were babies more than likely they've already made up their minds about each other because they're now adults. Because they've been togeter since babies doesn't mean they'll like eachother. Will that attitude change? That can't be known. The vet is completely wrong when he says that being together will eventually make them bond especially since they're adults. ***** Jealosy towards each other for our attention - Not enough attention (dunno how much more i can give as i work from home and they get tons of attention)***** You've ruled out jealousy and insuffient attention since you're home all the time and are connected to both. It could be the personality of each bird. They shouldn't be in the same cage even if everything was great. Greys have to have their own space. Each cage is their individual home. As far as the plucking, that could be the weather ( too dry--little humidity), nervousness but many times, parrots don't get enough bathing and that should be done frequently--at least 1x or 2x a week even if they don't like it. The birds should be soaked down to the skin and they should be allowed to dry off by themselves which may take a few hours. The longer they're wet, the better.. That makes the skin less itchy and less dry. It could be from incomplete molting. Possibly, the plucking will ease up but the bathing is extremely important. You may wanna check with a vet concerning the plucking but you should think about seeing another one if possible. Their food is fine.

whack job?? He looked at you, relaxed and designed a plan of action. He then had the patience to hold back until the time was just right. He wanted to inflict damage without repurcutions. He looked for escape routes and realized the the worst he would have needed to suffer was a trip to his cage which he already was familar with. He knew your personality so he knew that he would be quickly paroled. SO, whack job? I think not. Was he successful? Completely.

Welcome to the world of parrots. The honeymoon is over.

Ballpark---after a grey is 3 yrs old, all of the permanent eye color is seen and from that point on, it's extremely hard if not impossible to know what the bird's age is. That color is a white iris which surrounds a black pupil. The white iris is the important thing as far as age is concerned. The 2 people you mentioned are strictly dog trainers and clicker training a bird is totally different then a dog. Even clicker training a cat would be very difficult. A dog is very domestic and a cat is also domestic but still has certain traits and connections to feral cats. The closer an animal is to it's original background, the harder it is to clicker train. Parrots are strictly wild animals even when they're pets. They'll always remain wild througout their lives. If a parrot escapes from a house and flies away but can still be seen, clicker training won't make the bird come back. It's in it's normal element. Only small things can be acheived when clicker training a bird. Going from one spot to another, back and forth and a few other minor things. Most clicker training is for indoor use with birds. The only exception to that is when professional bird handlers are involved. That also includes predatory birds by the handlers. There's a complete list of body language signs here that you should read but none really have anything major concerning greeting a person. It's very obvious when a bird greets a person. It gets excited, shows activity which looks like he's happy to see someone. The bird reacts the same way when he hears a person opening a bag of treats or cracking nuts. Excitement, moving back and forth, saying familar sounds when he hears these things. If you wanna use clicker training, fine but remember that clicker training doesn't make a bird do things that will be fantastic and unseen before clicker training was done.

The meds that the vet gave you are some of the usual meds that are used to treat that infection. As far as how she feels, that's common when a parrot has nasel/crop infections. It takes a while for the parrot ti get back to it's normal self. The way your bird is reacting right now can be compared to a person who has a cold plus a fever. Not wanting to eat, unusual quietness. I doubt that losing those downy feathers makes your bird feel uncomfortable. At your bird's age, molting isn't unusual. Even though your bird has no fever, I,m only trying to show you how an individual person feels. A person who has a cold but no fever, won't feel as lousy as one that does. ""Her droppings look normal but are very small compared to what the were before this. She still is not eating much unless I feed her soft foods like fruit, steamed veggies, cooked pasta, cous cous, and beans.""" That's not unusual because the less food a parrot eats, the smaller the amount of droppings. Losing the tail feathers may be just a coincedence. Tail and flight feathers fall out because the blood suppy dries up which makes the feather drop and when happens, new ones are just behind them. I doubt that it has anything to do with a crop infection or making the bird feel bad. The only thing I would suggest is that you stay close to your vet, do everything he says, give the prescribed meds. Meds don't react so quickly that you would see a drastic change. Write down everything that's happening even if it's small. We here can't make diagnoses because none of us are vets.

For your situation, read http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?189752-Bathing-possible-method-2