Dave007

If you feel as though there's an egg in it, it should be left with the hen for about 28 to 30 days because if you immediately take the egg out, she;ll lay another one and the male will have nothing to do with it. She won't try to breed even if there's an egg coming. After 28 days, if nothing is there then you can remove the egg/eggs. Normally, I would say 31 to 33 days but your PM said that the egg she has was laid about 5 days ago. If you can get through this breeding season without her having chicks, you'll be better off and so will they. Then you'll have quite a long time to study up on breeding birds. You'll have a long time for your birds to get used different foods. You'll have a long time to study their habits. You'll have a long time to see the different changes that go on with the male and the female. The birds will have a long time to get into prime healthy condition. Right now, you're not familar with incubators, brooders, hand feeding and proper timing of the feeding process, the weaning process etc. Learning all these things takes time and it's impossible to give information about certain things AFTER those certain things have already happened. So focus on getting your birds strong and healthy. You should take the birds to a vet so that he can see how healthy the female is. Just because a female lays eggs doesn't mean that she's necessarily healthy. Remember that you've only had this pair of birds for approx 5 to 7 wks and the previous owner didn't give you loads of important information concerning that breeding pair.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2008/12/31 22:03

PS--Penny, forgive me for giving your bird the wrong name. I was only referring to whatever bird you were discussing. I should have read the name more carefully. Very sorry about that.

First of all, if your bird got sick the most important thing you have to think about is going to the vet as soon as possible. Doing your own personal diagnosis concerning your bird doesn't benefit any bird especially when items have to be given internally. The bird called Talon that was discussed in this thread had some problems, was taken to the vet by the owwner named Penny. The bird had a complete checkup and some problems came up. The vet then told Penny what to do and recommended that certain things be given to Talon in order to correct the problems which Penny has done. Penny never said that she decided that certain items should be given to her bird every three months. It was the vet's opinion and treatment was given. It was also the vet's opinion that all his patients take a certain formula every three months for their general health. Other vets may think differently which is also the proper thing to do. It's the vet's diagnosis and he/she is the final decision maker. That's somewhat like a person who is told to take a certain vitamin because of a particular problem. That same person may take a multi-vitamin every day and actually contribute to the problem. The MD is the one that makes that decision, not the patient. Certain over the counter preparations can be helpful to a bird or person but it's the MD or Vet that makes that final decision after being examined professionally. Taking a preparation that was strictly given to Talon may be harmful to another bird that has a totally different illness or problem.The vet makes the final decision.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2008/12/31 17:24

I commend your vet on wanting to go easy concerning the use of drugs. He and I are thinking along the same lines. You HATE yogurt? too bad! Grow up! This is the real world!! As far as the fluids he suggests and his method of giving, I agree with him completely. Normally a person leaves water in the cage all day and night which is normal but if you wanna make sure she gets a good dose of that water mixed with those fluids, take the water dish out overnight. Remember that she's sleeping all night so she won't miss it. In the morning give the bowl of water back. A majority of birds will immediately go to the bowl for a drink in the morning if the water is new and cold. That insures that she'll get a healthy gulp of your prepared water. I don't think she's gonna have trouble with any of the items he recommends as long as you make sure that she hasn't had any water overnight. The morning gulp for a bird is the big one. The second biggest is right after a major morning meal. ""Talon was never fond of the apple cider vinegar in the water. I usually would double the recipe and then mix it in with juice."" What I would do is put the apple cider in the water and then put the juice in the water. That way, the juice isn't concentrated and it also flavors the water a bit. The cheese--It's good that you like brick cheddar. Cut 1 sq inch x 1/8 in thick. Let her eat as much as she wants. She probably won't finish that whole piece. Feed it once a week. Many greys prefer the sharp or extra sharp. Concerning an increased yeast level--in her case that's not a serious condition because I guarantee you that if it was, your vet would be giving you a stronger regimen to follow. He's worried about antibiotics and rightly so. I was speaking before about bad bacteria too and my recommendation is about 1/2 to 1 teaspoon of yogurt once a week. I'm saying * put some good bacteria in her system* and he's saying that *he doesn't want to kill off good bacteria by using antibiotics* I think he and I are thinking along the same lines. Antibiotics kill off any bacteria that exists in the body be it good, bad and every bacteria in the middle. You can always call your vet and tell him what I suggested about giving yogurt. Increasing good bacteria in a bird's or human's body can hurt, only help. A good yogurt to get is a brand called Creme Savers. Thw flavors are Orange, peach, strawberry, raspberry and blueberry. In the fridge, they can last a couple days after opening as long as you put a piece of Cling Wrap or something similar on it that's a tight seal.--in Walmart, they cost .50 each """I am ashamed to admit that I am a HUGE fan of cheese"". What's to be ashamed of? Look at it this way, you simply have a more cultured pallette then most of the commoners that surround you.

That's a lot of fruit you're giving and all that fruit doesn't really provide strong nutrients. Fruit should be given a little at a time and not as a mixture and not every day even though he likes it. It's true that fruit can sometimes cause yeast increase but what is also happening is that the good bacteria in the body is being overtaken by bad bacteria. If it were me, I would greatly ease up on that fruit and substitute yogurt to get good bacteria into the system. Good bacteria maintains a balance which helps to fight off infections. In birds, the digestive system is improved when good bacteria is added. No, the crop can't get affected unless it's a yeast infection which basically is a fungus. Having an elevated yeast level and having a yeast infection are 2 totally different things. One has nothing to do with the other. Crops can get yeast infections and that usually happens when a bird is extremely young--pre weaning age. The food stays in the crop for a long period of time and a yeast infection can set in if conditions are just right. Your bird doesn't have a yeast infection and if your vet feels that his treatment is the best way to go, then do it. Half the battle is won if your bird will actually accept the apple cider vinegar. Most birds don't like it. PS--If I remember correctly, Lacto consists of dairy items-- milk, cheese, yogurt. So you may want to give a smallpiece of hard cheddar cheese (yellow and has to be hard) once a week.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2008/12/31 02:27

Those greys aren't eating the dirt on the ground. They're digging it up and pushing it aside. Greys are well known scavengers and will look for the quickest meal they can find which includes everything that other animals drop or other things that fall off. Given the choice they will definitely go to the ground and eat what's available. They dig the earth up to pick out any seeds, roots of plants or whateever they find that's tasty and nutritious. They don't eat the dirt. The area they're eating in is swamp land which can provide the largest amount of green food. It's that preferred habit of scavenging all over the ground which allowed poachers to set up nets and crude traps and capture hundreds of them for exportation which also caused lots of deaths and fatal injuries. That all ended in 1992 with certain laws being put into effect concerning the importation of all parrots into the US. PS--That Import/Export ruling doesn't apply to all countries though.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2008/12/31 01:10

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=J5z4Vs26-TI<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2008/12/30 23:24

Well, it all has to do with wild birds being in captivity. Some handle it pretty well and others don't. Most owners treat their birds very well and they chew and/or pluck. Some people don't treat their birds well at all and they don't pluck or chew their feathers. With some birds, it has to do with personality, nervousness, family environment, how long they were allowed to continue eating formula before being classified as being weaned, relationships with other things that surround them. Some aren't bothered. Some are. Some have plucked and chewed and developed permanent habits and it won't stop. The same thing applies to pluckers. It's like a person who bites their nails. Some do it out of nervousness. Some do it out of habit. Some do it because it feels good. Some do it for all those reasons. I doubt that any graduate student will be able to delve into the unknown. It's been tried over and over by the best with no clear answers. Clay? Africa? Greys? Only birds of the Amazon but not birds will eat clay for the high salt content and to balance their digestive systems. The macaw is a bird that needs high amounts of a special clay in order to get a high quantity of alkaloids in their systems because many of the nuts they eat are toxic. The alkaloids neutralize the toxicity. Greys don't eat salt. In the wild, greys are leaf, vegetable and fruit eaters. Their digestive systems will seriously degrade from regular amounts of salt.

German Shorthaired Pointer

You wanted to know about whether people here have other animals and how greys get along with them. At least 85% of the people here have other pets besides birds. It's not unusual for birds to intensely dislike each other, especially the same species. That's pretty common but it's also not unusual if birds really like each other. Nature and environment decide who likes each other and who doesn't. Saying which types of animals will get along with a grey is impossible especially if there's quite a few different type animals around. Concerning birds with other animals 1--some animals will take an instant liking to each other. 2--some animals will develop jealousy and will be on guard ready to do damage to each other. 3--some animals will accept other animals without a second thought to the point of actually being bored and don't even try to get involved with each other. basically, they ignore each other, can stay in the same area and won't pay attention to each other. 4--Some animals will develop an intense liking of each other and the species could be totally different from each other. So basically certain animals need to be watched. Their personalities need to be studied before making decisions. Even though this is not an exact figure, there are percentages-- All parrots, all of which are wild and stay that way are more likely to have a better attitude towards domestic animals as opposed to other wild birds. In the wild, it's not unusual to see a flock of parrots on the ground scavenging around trying to find things to eat with a pack of wolves very close by also scavenging around looking for whatever appeals to them. They pay no attention to each other. There's a way to see the same thing at home. Take 2 to 4 bird feeders outside in the back yard and put different seeds in them. Hypothetically, we''l use chickadees, titmice, small sparrows, cardinals. A few chickadees come to the feeder that contains the food they normally eat. Before eating, each one will chase the other away before eating. That'll happen no matter what specific species named above. Now take a few titmice who also eat the same food as the chickadees and you'll see the two species come to the feeder, eat together and will have no desire to chase each other away. The same thing applies to hummingbirds who in my opinion are the most aggressive birds towards each other. Rarely can a person put only one hummingbird feeder outside if they wanna see a few drinking together. A couple of feeders would have to be put outside and they'll need a bit of distance from each other. Now take a squirrel and put the animal right next to the bird feeders. Even put a bird called Junco in the same area also eating the same seeds as the squirrel. Neither will react to each other at all. Take 2 squirrels and put them in the same area and you'll see problems between the two. My photo contibution concerning the wild animal with the domestic animal. Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2008/12/30 19:06<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2008/12/30 19:24

"""""She is bound to get hurt if she keeps this up. Right now Nikki appears scared more than anything but naturally she will begin to defend herself. """"" Maybe, maybe not. Smaller, quicker birds like green cheeks, pionus, quakers, suns constantly have the upper hand when it comes to tangling with much heavier slow moving species such as greys, Zons, eclectus. Certain small species dislike larger birds and will go after the bigger bird before they tangle with other species of the same size and temperament. Smaller birds are extremely quick and can easily avoid getting bitten by that larger species. The percentage of small birds successfully bitting a grey's feet is much higher than the other way around. About the only way your grey is gonna get back at the smaller bird is if that bird is either trapped against a wall where he can't get away or if the owner happens to be holding the whole body of the small bird such as is done when filing a beak, carrying from one place to another etc. If the owner who is holding that bird and just happens to be very close to the grey don't be surprised if that grey runs out and bites the bird on any exposed area while it can't defend itself. As soon as the towel is off, away goes the grey. I have quakers at home who rule the roost. Below--A typical continuing attitude with the grey very nervous and leery and surprised by a quaker. She's ready to bite but he's afraid and sliding down the bars and she means business. This is a common occurance. The grey just doesn't learn. She acts this way with one other grey too. The male quaker is calmer and has less attitude but can be nippy with the big ones if he wants to.. Your 2 birds may be the type that need to be watched, especially the small one. As a grey gets older smaller birds get more aggressive. PS--my 2 quakers wouldn't even harm a budgie. -------------------------------------------- Something funny just happened right after I posted this reply. My wife happened to be right behind me and she spotted the 2 pictures and was looking at them I said, " you remember that time when Lola's (quaker)cage was next to Tee and he was on his cage wall and she went after him and tried to bite him?" She said "no, how can I remember one specific time? She goes after him all the time. He's a masochist".<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2008/12/30 03:43

It could be that emotional separation you're getting ready for but you need to ask yourself *how much of this literature did I actually read in the past?* * how many other bird owners did I contact to get advise and other tips and clues about my problem* *how many other people are having this same problem?* * did I ever find out how much change a grey will accept? *Did I ever explain my exact situation to anyone in order to get a clearer answer that would be full of reality and more than likely, common sense*? The choice is yours. You may need more than sympathy here.

This is a very touching and meaningful work of art. I hope others here can enjoy it as much as I do.

Truely lovely. You're the chief moderator so I demand that you put a sticky on this or else they'll be trouble in paradise. Make this a new topic so it can be on the main RESCUE PAGE.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2008/12/30 01:02

It's the vet that checks for all diseases. Breeders don't have the testing material to do all tests. It's called a *well check* and if a problem is found, the buyer is entitled to a refund, a warranty, or a guarantee and the bird has to be fully weaned in order for a vet to perform every internal test that's required in order for a bird to get an approved bill of health. Nor do breeders have access to all the labratories which perform those tests. Either the breeder pays for that test ( which is included in the purchase price) or the buyer pays for that test depending upon the bill of sale contract.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2008/12/29 21:50

"""""If it's someone else that doesn't live with us he freaks out and screams bloody murder when they are standing next to him and attacks them when they try to pet him. I don't understand why he does this? Do your greys do this? Is it normal for him to freak out on other people."""""" This subject was recently discussed in the AFRICAN GREY section. The name of the thread was GUTTED. It explains many things that are very similar to your problems concerning other people, friendliness, biting, taking more to one person as opposed to another. As far as your bird accepting certain actions of one person but not the other, well there's a visa versa to that. Spending more time with your bird is the start of bettering his attitude towards you but don't expect his likes and dislikes to to change. If a bird likes you to scratch it's head but doesn't like the other person in the house to do that, it'll stay that way. If a bird likes the other person to rub it's neck but not you, it'll stay that way. The only thing that will change is the overt attitudes towards different people.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2008/12/29 20:12

Only pet shops that deal with all types of animals need to be licensed for insurance purposes. That insurance is strictly used by the owner of the pet shop as a protective measure. Private breeders offer various protective measures such as warranties, guarantees, refunds which are written in the bill of sale. I doubt that you're actually looking for a breeder that has insurance. I really think you're looking for assurance and/ or legitimacy of the breeder. During a sale, a breeder may tell you that he/she deals with certain vets that are X amount of miles away and would say that it would be best to have a bird checked out by that vet because there's a time line involved. But the choice of vet is what the purchaser decides. Breeders give X amount of time to hava the bird checked out. You can call the vet that the breeder deals with and ask about legitimacy of the breeder. A private breeder is not considered a pet shop.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2008/12/29 19:52

Well, her post is more than a year old but if you click her name you can send a PM and ask her.

Dan You're right about the lack of material around. It just isn't around. Most material is aimed that new youngster coming home and the knowledge of that same bird when it gets much older just doesn't exist. You know something, don't think this only applies to greys. I believe that the very young stage of a bird's life is a very short stage and people should know about the following stages that will be permanent simply because the bird is finally and permanently in that adult stage. I've seen people who've gotten extremely upset and depressed when that cuddly grey grows up and becomes aloof, independent, desires lots of time by itself, shows possessiveness, jealousy and also becomes daring. People can't understand what's happening. Many people blame themselves and feel lost as to what possible solutions exist. So yes, there should be literature on the adulthood of a wild creature such as a parrot. It may stop people from biting off more than they chew.

rierie One other important thing to remember is that it wasn't your fault because it wasn't intentional. Many people who buy greys are never told what the personality of greys will be like as they grow older. It's totally different than a very young bird and as they gety older and more independent and learn the lay of the land and the people who live there, they will become much more assertive and have an aggressive attitude with loads of people who are just casual friends. Greys are family birds and just so you know, many people even have trouble with their greys just getting used to the immediate members of the house which you don't have going on. So, since there's many changes and unknown situations that'll come up, we're here to break down all those things and discuss them and believe me, you'll get a zillion methods and opinions about what you can try out. Remember, NOT YOUR FAULT.

It's best to reread BaxtersMom's reply if you don't understand it well. She hit the nail on the head in every area that you mentioned. If you need more specific information about each thing he's doing, just ask. Individual problems can be spoken about and possible solutions can be given. A few extra things here.... Expect your bird to not like every single kid in the future. As they get older, they become very choosy concerning kids. As greys get older, they're known to develop a dislike for kids who are relative strangers. That also applies to people who aren't around them all the time such as the boyfriend, grandchildren, aunts, uncles, casual friends. That part of their personality starts to show itself at approx 1 yrs old give or take. Greys aren't the type of species that enjoys socializing with large groups of people. Basically, they take to most members of the immediate family. That part of their personality starts to show itself at approx 1 yrs old and older. As greys get older they lose that cuddly personality that was present when they were much younger. Many people who own greys past the age of approx 1 1/2 to 2 yrs old usually keep their birds in the cage when lots of people are around. Most people aren't as concerned with the bird liking and intermingling with many other people. Greys get nervous very quickly, bite even faster and you won't even see that nervousness unless you know what to look for. After episodes like that they stay moody and wanna be left alone meaning no stepping up, no petting because they will bite when you try the stepping up and the bird will bite when you try to pet him. They just wanna be alone in the safety of a cage which acts like protection for all external things that are going on.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2008/12/28 06:34

Casper was brave enough to say this and it took courage. """"I dont have a newborn but I have two young children a husband and two cats""" That was a truly sad experience for all of them. The life they lived until now had been less than adequate to say the least. They've put up with a lot. How much worse it actually was will never be known. Secrets can remain secrets forever. Casper will tell you that even though it had been difficult for them, they adapted to her and her quirks and if that accomplishment was successfully achieved and they decided not to sell her to the highest bidder then it's very safe to say that a grey can adapt to anything, anytime, anywhere, large or small with newborn children, baby children, older children. All you need to have is the patience that Casper's family had. That was a true achievement. A feat and now a memory etched in time.

Use PayPal next time. PayPal pays for the item and you will pay PayPal. It's PayPal that you will be giving your credit card info to before the item is actually purchased. As of today, it's the safest way to go. If the company you wanna buy from won't accept PayPal, find another company because beliecve it or not, a company gets their payment more quickly from PayPal.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2008/12/27 20:14

Judy is totally right about mushrooms being a no no. You wanna give your bird some healthy bacteria that the bird will benefit from? Feed some yogurt periodically.

Journeyman So sorry. I didn't know that you already bought that machine. I was simply trying to save you some money. I didn't know you were looking for a machine that would service your whole apartment. My whole post was aimed at anyone who was thinking about purchasing different machines in areas that are loaded with parrot dander. People spend lots of money on machines that don't work with certain parts of the dust that's in a room. People expect to purify a bird room and it ain't gonna happen as long as the birds are alive and moving and flapping around. The rest of a house that has no parrot dust in it is much cleaner and I wasn't referring to those areas of the house. A room that has parrots in it is much dustier than any sterile hospital room that has only microscopic particulates in it. Those particulates stay in the air and can be eventually sucked in. Those hospital rooms had no dander producing parrots in them. If they did, they would be using heavy duty vacuum cleaners to remove that type of dust besides that air purifier who's only job is to clean airborne dust, odors from chemicals, odors from food.