Dave007

Well, now you made sure everyone had a much better thanksgiving. Lets all give thanks that your bird is up and about and eating his eggs. You can calm down now, hug your woman and maybe have a drink. Good luck. Keep smiling and drop in once in a while.

It's hard to say where his behavior comes from for 2 reasons. 1--That illness is a very serious illness and not as many birds get it as opposed to the other more common ailments. It's the type of illness that will require medication and the a long period of recovery. What type of reactions will happen during recovery are just too many to name. 2--A grey doesn't have to be sick at all to do that bowl banging. To many birds, it's a way to release aggression, to let a person know that it wants more food or just to knock the contents out of the bowl. Of course, it may also be some form of communication between you and your bird. I feel that the best thing to do is to notify your vet and describe in detail what he's doing and find out if it has anything to do with his illness and also ask about the many after effect reactions that birds go through during treatment and after treatment. I have 2 birds that do the same thing for 2 different reasons...one does that to let me know it wants more food. If I ignore him, he'll eventually pull the bowl out of it's holder, open the latch and come out of the cage. The other bird does the bowl banging only on his water bopwl and it only happens with fresh water. he becomes violent with the edge of the bowl, trying to spill the water and knock the bowl around. With him, I have to make sure the bowl is filled to the top because it makes the bowl that much heavier and he can't really mess it up. When he's doing this he also bangs his beak around the metal holder that surrounds the bowl and he sometimes bruises his beak but there's nothing I can do about this habit. Also, I do know of many birds that will stop much of their normal activity with that illness but on the other hand, I'vw seen birds do the exact same things that have minor illnesses. I've seen birds do that when molting time is around the corner. Check with your vet. What your bird has gone through is traumatic and even when humans suffer serious ilnesses they're not the same for long periods of time during and after recovery.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2008/11/29 18:50

That's the common position that birds get into just before they're about to fly but many will go through the whole thing minus the actual flying. Many who do fly on a regular basis will fly from point A to point B after getting into that position. They also flap vigoriously when excersing their wings But the head/neck position is aimed slightly upward.

If your new bird is only 4 mts old right now, there are no problems. If your bird showed irritation when being taken off of a shoulder at the place he originally came from, blame them for allowing that type of behavior to increase by not being more serious about what they're supposed to do when showing birds to customers. """She makes a big fuss whenever you ask her to do something.""" That depends upon what you're asking her to do. She's been there for 2 weeks and needs plenty of time to get used to new and hopefully permanent living quarters and that doesn't just pertain the actual house. You should be allowing her to show you what type of personality she has and that can't be done in 2 weeks. Any type of actions or reactions you got when you took in that 12 yr old bird can in no way be compared to the actions and reactions of a baby grey. """However, she still seems to be very "stuborn" and does not really care for attention or scratches much."""" That's all part of not knowing you, the house, the environment,the people, the habits that exist. Again, 2 weeks is much too short for these things to be accomplished. """"I want her to "like us" but at the same time I do not want to allow her to be a "bully". She does not seem at all "scared" of us it really does appear that she tries to bully us into letting her have her own way 100 % of the time. """" She's not bullying you. She's simply testing the waters to see how far she can go in that new house and those new people. You can't make a parrot *like you* The parrot will eventually decide when to give out some *liking treats* to it's owners. 2 weeks is too short for that to happen. First, her bag has to be slowly filled with *liking treats*. Right now it's empty. """They said she was very bonded with them and enjoyed scratches at night."""" That may very well be true which can answer the situation concerning the lack of interest in you scratching her. Greys don't switch affections overnight. Expect greys to be very obstinent about everything but don't confuse that with the word *bullying*. What you're doing concerning the stepping up is fine. That's a necessity for both you and the bird. """"Do I continue to praise and reward her for good behavior and once she understands what we would like from her will the affection start to come?""""" You should constantly talk to her and give her things and not expect good behavior. You should spend this valuable time making close friends with her. That can't be done in 2 weeks. At 4 mts of age, greys are only trying to become birds. They don't know what bad behavior is all about yet. Just think for a minute---5 to 6 wks ago, your baby grey was having formula put down it's throat. Keeping her off your shoulder is a good idea because of what happened in the past.

Geez, I'm blushing. Now I can see that Dn has a secret file where he puts all of the past goodies. SOOOOO sneaky. Well anyway, thanks for the nice things you've been saying. it's a nice thing to read on Thanksgiving. So just remember that so many here have new birds but don't think for a second that you won't suffer the same reactions from your new birds. They all know what they smell and see and it's your duty to share your goodies with those pain in the ass birds. And also, don't expect any thank yous. They feel that it's owed to them simply because they put up with you all year long. Next chore..get ready for Xmas. Believe me, they're waiting and can get very impatient.

If you think you can handle your bird so that the nails can be filed, fine. 2 people would be needed. You can also get a concrete perch at the pet store which will also keep your bird's nails somewhat blunted but if they're extremely long right now, they would first hve to be trimmed down a bit. There is no special file for birds. You can take a nail clipper and clip off the very tip of the nail that's pointed. No more than the tip though.

Not the birds by my house. Just some photos to enjoy. Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2008/11/26 18:36<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2008/11/26 18:41

Was the vet's name Dr Scott McDonald?

Unfortunately, I don't think I'll ever see them again in that area. I believe it was an accident. Maybe they were young or inexperienced and didn't know what they were doing. Sure enough, eventually, the heavy rains came and washed the nest away this past late autumn. Maybe they came because the feeders were nearby. Usually, they're aggressive with eachother and chase each other away from feeders. Never will know. I do know that the babies lived and one day they were gone along with the parents into the woods. Look In OTHER BIRDS section<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2008/11/26 18:26

Really? WOW, you've got excellent hearing. Was he irritated and annoyed at being in there. Did he offer you a deal if you got him out?

He's obviosly going through a mating ritual. When you see the wings hanging down like that and he's making huffing and tiny chirping sounds, he's getting more and more excited. He wants your mom to pet him under the wings and and lower breast area.I wouldn't advise you allowing that behavior to continue. When he does that, put him down on his cage and let him relax a bit. Sometimes, when they're doing that and you don't respond with the petting in those areas they get frustrated and become nippy. He's already trying to pull your mother's hand in closer to his body.

No, not your common everyday illnesses but they can get sick if your saliva accidently got swallowed by them. Not all the time but enough times to make sure to avoid it. Another way they can get sick is if have a cold or cough and you cough or sneeze near them and your saliva gets ingested by them.

Listen people When someone comes on the board concerning the sale or adoption of their bird and is nice enough to give general reasons for that adoption, it's not very fair to start throwing in all types of snide remarks concerning what must be going on in that person's house which is causing the person to sell or or have to adopt out his/her bird. That person's lifestyle might not be the same as yours but as of now, you really don't know what that life style is. This has already happened once before to a member who's family situation drastically changed but people decided to critisise this person and started accusing him of other things even though they didn't have the slightest idea about what was really going on. The person was amazed that people would change their attitude simply because he had to sell his bird and it was not a nice thing to watch when the other members did this. Accusations were posted and none were true. If you wish to say why you might like to take the bird or can't take the bird because of distance or say what would happen if another bird was added to the household or say that you may Email the person, that's fine. His living conditions might not be conducive to having a bird. Being judgmental doesn't prove anything. It's a situation in which kindness comes across much better than cruel remarks. If you wanna be looked upon as a mature, kind person then act that way. If you have nothing positive to say, then don't say anything. And I'll add one other thing..how would you feel if the person's dog decided to eat the bird simply because that person made no effort to stop that potential disaster. I gotta feeling that people would be saying that the person should have made some type of effort to get the bird to another home to make sure the bird didn't get into that situation. There's 2 sides to a story. I'm an animal person, not just a bird person. I care just as much for other animals besides birds. AND I also have a dog and have had dogs all my life from the time I was an infant. Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2008/11/25 19:57<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2008/11/25 21:14

"""""We are going to get her a larger, more interesting sleeping cage, and after that try leaving her in her big cage at night"""" You really should think about bypassing that new sleeping cage. The cage he uses all day is his home. he plays there, rests there, eats there, makes sounds there. Why not let the bird sleep in his home too? I think you'll be wasting your money. Parrots don't need sleeping cages. Last time I checked, in the wild none of them had special sleeping trees.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2008/11/25 04:04

"""I kind of like having poop off around the house.""" Me too. When it's on the house, neighbors talk. It can be upsetting. """" I think vinegar and water works fine if you can clean the poop up before it has time turn into concrete"""" Me too. The color of the concrete poop more than likely won't be the same color as the other concrete. Different colored concrete will cause the neighbors to talk. It can be upsetting.

"""""""""say peekaboo whenever I peed around a corner, say poo poo when he does one,"""""" This is definitely a new method of accomplishing a certain thing. The administrators sat down and had a very serious meeting and the the vote was 4 to 1 in favor of putting your new method into our library for future use. many people try so many things and when a new method arrives, people get extremely excited because they hope it will work for their bird. Congrats on your new discovery.

Also remember that any air filter that you purchase will not be effective according to directions unless it's used in a totally ENCLOSED room. Each unit that's sold has sq. footage size and dimensions that it's made for. Most come with an automatic cut off. A cut off will only work in an enclosed room. I feel the same way that Kaedyn does. Most arent worth the money because the intake isn't powerful and it's very easy for dusty air to go around the filter instead of in the filter. If you're thinking about this for purifying air in a bird, you won't be doing that. Any filter you use will pull in dusty air and expel air that cleaner but not purified. The size of the dust can be as small as .003 microns. Any dust that's larger will fall to the ground. Much of a grey's dander is too heavy to float in the air. Only the fine dust of the dander will. The heavier dust will simply fall down and land on whatever. Everyone will tell you how dusty their bird area is on a constant basis even if there's a purifier/ cleaner in the room. That's all heavy dander that just falls down. So basically, what you're looking for is a machine that will draw the dusty air in. The dust gets stuck to a filter then the clean air zips out the back and recirculates to immediately intermingle with dust. As far as using those machines in a grey area, it's best to unengage the cut off because when the machine temporarilty stops, the grey light dander simply fall to the floor and when the machine kicks in again, it won't lift that dander back into the air. A purifier will only be a purifier if it's in an already clean ENCLOSED room. There's always microscopic dust in the air but the machine pulls it in and filters it and shuts off. That type of dust never falls to the ground.It takes a bit of time for dust to build up again and when the machine kicks in, it starts the procedure again. A parrot room is never clean. The dust is in the air all the time. Parrot dust is heavy and can't float for long distances. Purifiers don't have the strength to pull in air that is dirty with heavy dust. That type of cleaning is usually the vacuum's job. I'm only telling you this so that you know how a purifier works in a bird's room as opposed to the same purifier working in a room that has no birds. You may be buying a purifier but in a bird's room, it simply acts like an exhaust machine which has filters attached that will intercept the dust.

Some people like to be told that their ideas which are really wonderful but impractical, appreciate being told that impracticle ideas will cause problems. Sometimes, *decorum* isn't necessary where the subject of live animals is concerned. Many times, bluntness is the way to go. Many people new to the world of birds are happy to be stopped in their tracks when looking at an item in a different light. It's not their fault and others quickly wanna make sure that the person is on the right track because of the limited time that's involved before the bird gets home. On this board we's all just a bunch of ordinary country folk and we ain't got time to show decorum. We's too busy takin care of the other pesky animals in the house. Doin that damn stuff has helped us folk to dodge the etiquette police. Now if we was talking about a ranch style house as opposed to a colonial style house, hmmmm, well now, those smart people gotta use decorum when they decide on the type of grass seed that will be used in the garden. After all,they wouldn't want the same color as the Joneses down the block. The color of the brick facing would also be important.

very nice looking grey . Hope him enjoy your future with him. They have a lot to give' What's he saying? " pardon me, I'm checking out my welcoming party and trying to groom myself. A little privacy would be appreciated"

Put her in your lap and hold her, stroke her and put love on her. Just don't let her wander onto your shoulder.

Hi PipJulLor More than likely, my post here won't be in the proper order concerning the subjects that were brought up so it will take a bit of time for you to put things together. I'm not good at putting things in the proper order. In my eyes many of the problems of your bird's wings have very little to do with many of the other problems you discussed and had the bird tested for although the many tests that were performed are good tests that many birds go through because of other illnesses. The act of fledging takes a lot longer than 4 wks. Actually, birds no matter what the age is need to learn how to fly all over again when going into a new home. It's a new place and the bird needs to maneuver around that new place. It may be aggravating to the owners, but by the bird doing that, it regains the already established art of doing something with confidence. You waited 4 weeks and clipped him. The clip was successful. You immediately felt that because the bird was achieving success, you decided to have him clipped again because you wanted to conform the bird to your needs, not the bird's needs. The clipping was bad. The bird suffered with that clip. No sooner did he start feeling comfortable, you had him reclipped. That was a wrong thing to do. You had a 2 yr old parrot that had built up confidence in those 2 yrs and you altered the bird's abilities and his confidence level. Birds are meant to move around and the only way they can do that is by flying. That too annoys many parrot owners. Why does a grey need to have the extra time to stay flighted? Greys are heavy set parrots who don't fly alot in the wild. They are perchers. BUT, they do learn how to fly out of necessity. In the home they're not your obvious pain in the ass fliers that go all over the place all day long. They go from point A to point B to point C. They're not like long tailed parrots which constantly fly such as macaws, quakers, rosellas, ringnecks etc etc. Doing something like what you did can very easily affect a bird's personality and out goingness with the owner. Another thing is a lousy clip. In almost every case of drastic clips what follows is broken blood feathers which are the flight feathers. In long tailed parrots that break their tail feathers, blood comes out of that area too. The lousier the clip, the longer the correction will be. A lousy clip causes more serious problems than a correct modified clip. When a male dog is taken to a vet and is properly neutered, that dog will still hump things around the house and will even do it to female dogs. Nothing will happen but doing that might aggravate the owner. So, what's the next step? Have the dog's penis removed? He said Pippin appeared healthy and offered to do a gram stain and blood work if we wanted but his age didn't indicate it. We discussed concerns over the difficulty we were having hand feeding him, his weight (we kept a daily weight record), keeping him clean, top and bottom, if you know what I mean. All in all, not traumatic. The next visit was an emergency visit to a different vet when, after the feather hack job, he fell to the floor. He'd been doing this a lot at this point and I didn't think too much about it til I saw him bleeding from his beak/mouth. When he flapped his wings I thought I heard rattling. I immediately thought he'd broken his keel and rushed him to an Avian vet open on the weekend. He did a physical exam and said he didn't think anything was broken but wanted to keep him overnight and do x-rays the next day. I didn't feel comfortable w/ this vet and less comfortable leaving Pip w/ him. I took Pip home and all seemed fine. A couple of months later he did the same thing but this time it was clear that he had broken his beak. This time I took him to a different vet who put a sealant on his beak and gave me pain meds for him. He noticed Pippin's damaged feathers and said Pippin was indulging in feather mutilation and needed a 'job' (foraging) and likely doesn't know he's a bird. The vet also said Pip was thin, but not necessarily underweight. We had a follow up visit a week later (a week of broken blood feathers), his beak was healing but the vet noticed more feathers that needed to be pulled and one that Pippin had broken at the base. Any bird who gets a lousy clip is gonna fall to the floor over and over again. The wings are mutilated, tender, extremely bendible, not fully grown. Basically, there the same new feathers that a baby bird will grow. You took your bird to the vet and he said the correct thing after seeing the condition of those blood feathers. They had to be removed or else more bleeding would occur if these soft feathers were banged around. But there is a down side tio this..the bird will have even less feathers and that will cause the bird to not be able to progress. The pulling of the feathers lengthens the amount of time in which they will grow out. I'd like to explain the anatomy of a parrot's feathers and I'm gonna compare it to human male pattern baldness. Just under the skin is the follicle. A hard pointed shaft grows out from that cuticle. Other than the head of a parrot all of these shafts come out and lay against the skin. The shaft is where the feather will grow out of. When this shaft is getting bigger, the points of that shaft jab into the bird's skin. It's painful and the first thing a bird does in order to relieve that pain is to pull that shaft out. Many ttimes, the bird is so irritated that he also pulls out the follicle. In that area no more feathers will appear. No follicle, no shaft. No shaft, no feather. In a man, male pattern baldness will eventually happen when the follicle under the skin starts to dry up and close. That prevents hair from growing out. The area becomes permanently bald. Many times it runs in families. ""The vet said that the bird * needed a job such as foraging*. Well, many greys don't show that desire to forage. They don't need to dig up food which is constantly nearby. If the bird did forage, it would be in very short bursts and won't last long at all. It's a part time job that doesn't produce much salary. Because of a shitty clip, there's a very big chance that the bird will fall because of the lack of balance. Many birds break or crack their beaks but many birds also have that happen for other reasons too. """""Pippin doesn't seem to want any interaction with me these days. In fact, he tries to get as far away from me as he can if I get close to where ever he is. He will go to my husband now without fuss or worry about further feather damage.----- Well, why not? You caused him problems, discomfort. You put him into a situation in which he has to be kept in a cage more than usual. Everyone will tell you that a grey who is out of thye cage for long periods of time is a more well adjusted bird because with wings, that bird has the ability to leave things and places when he feels like it. That doesn't exist anymore. At least for now. """Another question that my husband and I have pondered is would the addition of another grey help Pippin? The bird shop we frequent has a Congo (don't know how old) and a three year old timneh for sale."""" So, you're thinking about getting another bird which very likely make your bird more nervous. A new bird will have the upper hand because he has all of his natural function in tact. Think about that very seriously. There's no guarantee that it will work. Right now is the time to deal with a problem that's visible and not bring in a potentially different problem which will affect your even more. Your bird has a long journey back. It'll take time. Lots of time, physically and mentally. Your bird being thin or heavy has nothing to do with a feather plucking/ chewing problem unless an extremely poor diet is being used. Obviously, your bird's diet is decent. You'll have to deal with this bird in a totally different way now because he's now different and any connection that needs to be done has to be done by the owner knowing that the bird is partially an invilid. He'll stay in the cage more. He'll not trust you as much. He won't be as active as he was. He;ll be more quiet. He'll look like he's moody. You'll have to compenate. He falls down more? The perches need to be lowered more. He comes out and jumps off the cage or stand? A thick cheap throw rug should surround the cage so that when he jumps, that keel bone won't suffer a traumatic experience and what remaining flight feathers that are there won't crack as easily. I've dealt with birds who were in much more serious condition than your bird. One of those birds is mine. No feathers at all. No communication with people at all. Had a long period of time to learn the art of mutilation. Big changes had to be made and that bird was obstinent through the whole process until that painful stage of his shaft tips started to finally move away from the skin. He didn't know how to fly. He didn't know how to deal with people. He was afraid. He was withdrawn. He was a biter in the beginning because he was frightened of his own shadow. But as bad as he was, the worst bird I ever dealt with was a Goffins TOO that almost died because of what he did to himself. on this board, there are even pictures of my bird and believe me, the beginnings of this bird with my wife an d were visibly frightening. I've looked at the picture of your bird. I see nothing extremely drastic there. He still has a few flight feathers. The lower feathers aren't there. Usually, it's the other way around. The longest feathers are the most common to get injured. He has a very good chance of having the other feathers grow back but it will take time. Lots of time. Don't mess around with this bird's physical abilities in the future. He's a bird. Let him be a bird. With the people here, you should be asking everyone's opinion about what tricks they have as far as dealing with a cage bound bird. Believe me, there are many birds like that.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2008/11/23 21:08

"""""We're now in a debate between added height with a dome top or less height but with play top."""""" It'a good idea to check into a flat top cage with playstand. The bird doesn't need that type of height that comes with round top although many people are satisfied with a dome cage. Rectangular cages are best for greys. Lots of things can be hanged from cage ceiling. They enjoy walking upside down on the interior ceiling. Approx size- CAG(without play top) 55H x 33W x 28D TAG(without play top) 55H x 28W x 24D Both cages will be approx 8 inches higher with top. The bigger cage cage is good for CAGs and TAGs

Hi Is it possible that you can tell me what you're referring to below? """"Its funny that there are quite a few fellow brits on here but they are so backward about coming forwards..why is that???""""

If she's on your arm and starts crawlinmg upward, raise that horozontal arm and make it slightly vertical. The bird will walk up the arm to the fist/finger because parrots automatically go to the highest part of anything they're perching on. When your bird is up there put him back on something elselike the top of the cage, on a playstand etc. Repeat this over and over. Eventually, the bird gets the idea to stay off. A tip that works----If your bird is the type that flies over and lands on the back of the chair first then gets on you, simply take a small soft toy such as a small teddy bear and put it on top of chair. Birds don't like flying towards unfamilar items that have eyes.

Go to the WELCOME ROOM Look for post that says HELLO ALL I'M NEW. Thread starter is Tracie232 Read it--will help you