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Thanks` I will read it.

I though many woudl find this article very informative. It just goes to show how things are forced on use even knowing for centuries the toxic effects. Something to consdier for both you and your birds. Concerns Regarding Soybeans Cheers, Tim

Yep I agree it was just a unique set of conditions that came together to cause the issue. When I was speaking of food being left out I meant after it was cooked not soaking. We would really be in a pickle if that was an issue. It really when food that has been cooked is allowed to drop into the middle 100s and below and left out and not getting it down below 45-40 degrees that there is an issue. Kind of common sense stuff as yo have said. Only reason I mentioned it is that I have been very surprised at just how little some people have been taught /learned about many things people from a generation prior would have considered very basic ": common sense" type stuff. It only seems to have gotten worse with each generation. IMO started with people born from the middle late 60s on up.

Just remember it was the time and connection you made with Issac doing contact calling, which sounds to me to be the beginning of indoor recall training, that played a huge role in getting your baby back. Great job!!! While you certainly will have guilt for allowing him to get out, and should, do not forget it was that time you took that also got him back. Thank you for putting to print what you went thru. It is a emotional roller coaster uplifting story you have shared. Those hanging beads that are like a curtain ( those 60s-70s type hanging beads) may go a long way in preventing it from happening again as he will likely not stay on your shoulder as you push thru the beads. They were mentioned to me in another thread. They will likely also prevent a break for the big sky if a door is open for a bit too long. Keep up with the contact calling and work on getting him to come when you ask. That will arm you should he ever get loose again. Again I am sooooo overjoyed you two are reuntied. Congrats Cheers, Tim

You are very welcome. I try very hard to put myself in the shoes of the person when things such as these occur. At the same time also try to logically access the situation and help as much as possible as the hardest thing the person in the middle of a frightening event for that person to do is to be logical in their thoughts. As with any painful experience we do not want to be going thru it again and only looking at it in such a way can we best hope to prevent its re-occurrence. I am so thrilled you two are rejoined!!! Your pain/panic/fear was very obvious and heart felt. I think our biggest enemy to keeping our fliers safe is our own complacency. Everyone has this weakness to different extents. Its our jobs as we are 1000% responsible for our birds to constantly be reevaluating our day to day actions and habits. Its not just about getting out but that is the focus right now of course. From what little I have gotten to know of you just thru your posting on this IT think is apparent you are a very loving, caring guardian to your companion. Looking at this thru the eyes as a parent we ALL make mistakes or could have do better in a this situation or that. It is never a question of love or caring or if you are a good or bad parent ( with i reason of course) It comes down to learning from the incident. In the end we are 100% responsible for our children. We always need to be looking for ways to do better less we start regressing. Again I am happy and rejoyed Issac came back home and you should fee very encourage by the fact he never left and came back on his own as a sign of what he thinks of your care and friendship. If there is anything I and I am sure all others here can do to help with possible ideas to adding some extra security against this happening again you only need to ask. Thank you for taking the time to acknowledge my post to you. I was strongly hoping you took it as how I intended as text does not always convey as you we mean it to but by you response I see that you did. Congrats again. I am now off to read your blow by blow account of the events. Cheers, Tim

Star to break it down. Make yourself a list. You said you had just given her a few new toys. Maybe an allergic reaction to the dyes or a unknown to you used chemical on it. You said you took the other one away and now she seems to have stopped. So this comes to mind. Do you give her showers daily? How about a spray bottle with a aloe/ distilled (important) water mixture to sprays her with every day. That is very soothing and has great healing properties. Aloe plants is something everyone should have growing on in their windows IMO. As all the gel or juice you get in the store has much smaller amounts of the nutrients it did when fresh cut. There is a great step by step of how to slowly get them use to showering I can dig up if you need it. How about diet? What is her normal food? Thing with food allergies is they can just start for no good reason. How about any fresh veggies? Is it possible she got some that was not organic or might have had chemicals on it that did not get washed off? Did she get into any of your people food that might have bothered her? BTW Is it confirmed She is indeed a "SHE" While she is young for breeding behavior who knows? You said she was acting a bit strange. Plucking till she bleeds especially at only 6 months makes me think its something physical not emotional. Why I think a very close inspection of things that could have caused a skin issue of some sort. Please over of the much more experienced members correct me but would not regular soaking showers with aloe spray after wards be a very good idea? One thing though do not let this issue turn into something even worse. So as hard as it is do not let her see you or have your actions or voice show any kind of fixation on her plucking, the feathers etc.. Last thing you want to have happen is have her make a connection of any kind to the plucking and your behavior. Maybe use redirection to something positive if you see her going to it. Hopefully it was something (chemical, allergy, etc) with the toy and things may get back to normal. You did say she was acting better since their removal. Good Luck!!! Cheers, Tim

All I can think to add is consider which one will be the least in weight and the softest. No stiff material etc. The way I look at it is you may be able to get anything on your bird but will you continue to be able to? If they feel its uncomfortable I am sure they will become very objectionable to it. I would say the aviator or a custom made one such as Shanlung made. I do not think a lighter one could be so easily made, that would be near as usable, than Shunlungs.

It probably shouldn't be but that is so amusing and funny . I got a good chuckle imaging that. Picturing a kid ducking under the table and a little Grey flapping for all he is worth trying to fly off with a full slice of pizza. Like a helicopter with to heavy a hoist load to get altitude. Cheers, Tim

OK Jay the sweet potato is adjusted per your request to 3 TBSP. The link in the post is updated. Cheers, Tim

Is he actually allergic to the him or does he just have allergies. If you have him in the same house unless its huge with multiple zones and no air purifier near him that dust and dander is everywhere already so if its not bothering him now...... If he is actually allergic to him then that is harder and he likely is already having issues to some extent. Maybe best if you want him to have flight to put a air purifier in the room/s your husband is in the most. That is a frustrating situation.

Glad I could help. Many times it just takes someone else looking at it to see a different solution. Kind of like putting a puzzle together.

Thank goodness you have him back. When you said he was circling and calling I just knew he woudl be coming back in soon. Now that you have him back you need to have a serious sit down talk with him. He needs to know that at his age staying out all night is completely unacceptable and from now on if he goes out at all he must ask and then call every few hours and must be back before dark. LOL Seriously now, I am very happy he came back no worse for the wear. While I in no way can see you being even remotely a "bad bird daddy", so do not think that for a second, but at the same time your best friend did get out. I think its bears out that you may need to make changes, whatever they may be. It could simply be no more than being more focused. Then again maybe you will find something you can do, changes you can make, to minimize this happening again. There is no way to make anything 100% and have any type of enjoyment but I think taking some time reviewing how this happened and thinking and putting into practice steps to prevent its re-occurrance woudl be prudent. You likely have already been doing this over and over. Even in the middle of this when you wrote about him calling to you while flying around and around your building I could not help but think he was looking down at his daddy /flock leader saying "Hey daddy, look at me. Look at how great I can fly! Come on up!! This is soooo COOOL!!!!" Of course not knowing the whole time you are about to have a coronary. The way this mirrors how a 2-5 yr old child would be with there parents is scary. Your bond and love shared is why he under his on power an choice came back to you. You do not get that by being a bad owner/friend/daddy how ever you want to look at it. Enjoy your night tonight as its likely to feel so great. Of course now that your adrenaline is gonna you will likely crash and realize just how much this took out of you. Get a goods nights sleep tonight. both of you!!! Congrats!!! Tim

Dan and Jay thanks. Thank you for taking the time to post your setup and links, it is very helpful. I hope you can find that post. I will try looking as well as I am rather good at finding stuff like that. I would never dream of putting the light horizontal but thank you just the same as you never do know what a person may think up. Jay your comment about the oil gland is likely what the poster was getting at but did not word it clearly. I know I ask a lot of questions and tend to run on when I post bla bla bla. I want to fully understand the technicals of the whys, hows, and whats of it all. I find it important for me. In doing this its the only way to really start to understand how it all comes together and works and to that end I can be sure to be doing the best. As I am fairly new here I don't wish to come off as being a PITA. I very much appreciate you all taking the time to offer up the info you have from your experience and knowledge. I am sure many much rather enjoy simply sharing their experiences about there fids and this stuff can cause headaches and seem rather dry. The more I know and understand the greater the experience. Thanks again. Tim

You are welcome and thank you

30 hr. Absolutely is plenty long to breed the nasty stuff. I have had a commercial food handlers permit and you would not believe what can form in a warm culture in only 24hr. I felt something was lost in the post as you stated everything was still hard and I yet to see food turn that does that in my entire life. Only if it thaws to the point of being soft. Based on that info I am willing to bet that the issue started with that long cooling period you left it for. I vacuum seal everything hot for that very reason. Once things are cooked they go straight into a vacuum bag and double sealed on each end. With multiples like this you just never cut them off the roll after sealing and can just keep going. Using the narrowest rolls they sell. Then right into the frig then into the freezer. I have two separate units. A note to people with deep freezers. If you already have items in there is is far better to first place new items in the fridge first to get down to 40 degrees first then into the actual deep freeze or main freezer of the fridge unit. It will help prevent burn and "freeze thaw freeze" of other items in the freezer. Also if you looking for a deep freezer for long term storage look for ones that are not frost free or auto defrost. The way auto defrosters work is to actually warm up the inside for a short period from time to time to remove the frost. It will cause your food to not last 1/2 as long as some becomes partially thawed ever so slightly causing freezer burn. Auto defrost for your regular freezer (not a deep freezer) is fine as stuff there will be used somewhat more quickly or at least should be and you are in it far more than the few seconds at most a deep freeze may be opened each day at very most hopefully less.

Ok finally I think I have it correct. Jay's Smash in name and spread sheet title.

OK its all fixed up. Its now named Jay's Mash. Oh crap I just realized its your Smash not Mash. One more time of it. Lets see if I cna get it right this time.

Oh shoot. That's what I get for working on it too late at night. I will edit my post and the xls. I was having conversations with the both of you and I got all back-to-front. It was not too bad doing it. IT was about even in time of pulling the info and putting it into a spreadsheet. I have adobe acrobat pro whihc is a huge help as I can convert the web output to a PDF and then pull as a chart spreadsheet function into xls. Then its some moving around and a sum formula. Well let me go fix my naming issues. LOL Sorry Jay

Well obviously he knows very good and well where home is and he knows where you are. It sounds like its just a matter of time for when he gets hungry and thirsty enough to come in. He may find water but food he is going to need you for that. Unless you have other birds I would be leaving my doors open. His cage outside with food in it what ever he likes the most. But you have got to be 100% vigil about watching all of it. The last thing you want is him to be abe to come in for a drink and food and be off again.

Personally if everything was rock hard I would have likely done what you did but at the first sign something was wrong I would have pitched it as you did. Food is cheap and meaningless compared to your Ekkie. Glad you figured it out quickly and no real harm was done Funny how everyone seems to relate and gauge their greys health by how mischievous and much trouble they get into. LOL LOL

OK here is what I complied for your morning and evening mash meal recipe of: Yum, they gets, Yellow or Red Sweet-potato, [cut, put in pan, fill 1/2 full with water, cook till mushy] then we add to 1 tbsp: Natural unsweetened Applesauce, or, mashed Fresh Pear,[1 thin slice], or, 1 slice of Banana, to this we ad 1/4 teasp of "Natural Peanut Butter" [skippys], mix it all together, warm it in a microwave,[under 110 degrees]. This is served on a saucer along with: 1 tbsp each of lightly cooked, Lentils, Split Peas,[yellow or green] Orzo and Star pasta, and 4-10 Cooked plain Garbanzo beans I figured it would be easier to use in excel than pasting it all into the post: Jay's Smash Guess I better get a little bit of shut eye as sun is coming up in a couple hours.. Cheers, Tim

Will do. Hopefully should have done tomorrow whihc is actually today I guess at this point. Eventually I am going to have to try this thing people have told me feels good. They call it sleep.

Boy he really made you pay for some time for that one. Funny how it seems like he made you pay just as long as you were away as it been about two weeks he has been pissed at you.

Get there before sun up. That is important. If he was put he will be until day light for sure but likely even then. Still do not take a chance get there before it gets light. I think you have a very good chance of getting him back. Try and at the very least rest your eyes. and set a number of alarms as being stressed can do weird things.

Why not put something like that right outside the door itself. Make it fixed across the top and then have the bottom weighted much like some shear curtains are. But do so across the whole bottom. That way when its moved to go thru only the bottom moves aside creating a angel to walk thru but as soon as it is released it falls back closed over the door way. It makes it so its fast and easy to walk thru as needed but closes by itself as soon as its released and has enough weight to stay in place even with wind.