oblivion

Well, this has been my first week with Spencer (TAG), so it's pretty much been awesome. Especially with him saying "Hello?" to me this morning! This is also my last week of not training for a marathon - my 16 week program for Chicago starts on Tuesday - so I'm enjoying the rest (and 'free' time) for now. Otherwise, things have been on a pretty even keel (which is good). Thanks for asking.

I have no idea how common it is generally, but the TAG I just got last week was hatched without any toes past the first knuckle on his right foot and is missing two from the left as well. He's 13 years old now and gets on grand. His original owner special-ordered a cage with all horizontal bars to make it easier on him to get around with is 'little' foot, but really, it doesn't seem to limit him much other than he doesn't handle food as much as most other birds I've seen. She also got him wider perches than usual to make it easier for him to be stable, but he can grab on to the narrow side of a food cub just fine. I've seen him stand one-footed on the each foot, too.

Just wanted to post a one-week updated - if only for my own reflection later. I hope that's OK. Spencer's BIG cage got moved in on Wednesday evening. He seemed happy to be back 'home' and I was glad to give him more space than his travel cage. The next morning, I hung up his 'very favorite bell toy ever,' and to my dismay, he just sat on his boing, totally ignoring it. He's continued to eat well - pretty much anything I give him from fruits to veggies (though he pretty much ignores almonds, which surprised me - fine, more for me) - but his vocalizations had trailed off from the first few days and I was getting a little worried. Yesterday evening, my daughter was the first to ask, "can we bring the birds down?" when we got home and I started making dinner. Awesome. When I got upstairs, I'd found out SOMEONE had taken a VERY wet bath in his water dish. Heh. Good thing I don't care about that carpet and there's a shop vac at the ready! Back downstairs, I was grilling, and every time I'd go outside to tend the fire, Spencer would whistle like crazy (edit to state - I KNOW the birds can not be exposed to smoke - the grill is well away from the back door and the smoke was a non-issue). When I'd get in, he'd be pretty much quiet. It was nice to hear more noises from him again. Both birds got some fresh peppers and celery and then settled in as the sun went down, so I put them up to bed. This morning, he was out on his play gym while I was doing my morning routine (recently amended, of course). From the other room, I started hearing an odd banging noise and of course my bunny started thumping away. I peeked into the room and there was Spencer on the side of his cage with an empty gatorade bottle (sniped from off the windowsill - usually has rainwater in it for an orchid) in his beak, banging it against the cage and wall for all he was worth. He dropped it when he saw me. I just started laughing at him and he seemed to enjoy that. As he climbed back up to the top of the cage/gym, I put the bottle up there for him. He picked it up, climbed up his boing, and started beating on his 'very favorite bell toy ever' with it. Such fun. The whole time, he was whistling and grunting away and I just kept laughing. He settled down after a bit, but still played around with the bell a lot. He'd hang off the boing by his beak and shake the snot out of the bell with is foot. Later on, when I brought veggies up for everyone, I was feeding Maggie, the bunny, and I heard it - his first word to me since being in my house, "Hello?" Awesome. Getting him back into the cage off the gym is still not pretty, but the beak seldom comes into play anymore. Getting him into his travel cage to go downstairs/elsewhere is easy with a trick I learned from his original owner. The travel cage fits nicely in the big cage. He'll climb right into it without fuss - he must know it means fun times ahead. Getting him back from small to big cage is equally drama free. The only thing he doesn't like is me approaching him to put him back in when he's out free. Thus far, it's a lot like herding. Thanks for indulging me this little recap. As of this evening we'll have had him a full week. Really, it's going better than I had dared hope. And Anya, my 'tiel, really seems to like having him around as well.

Great ideas here. If you have in Google Voice or even Vonage, you could use that number forever*. * until the services go extinct (or you stop paying in the case of Vonage). I guess I shouldn't let my guy hear the "867-5309 - Jenny" song from the '80s.

luvparrots, that sounds like a very good setup/situation. A realization I had on my ride in to work (motorcycle rides are GREAT for digesting thoughts ) is that what I really want it two separate things - a command and a question. Again, being careful not to over-generalize from dogs, my mom, an excellent dog trainer, always taught me, "Never give a command you can't enforce." Meaning "Sit," "Stay," etc. can never be questions. Sure the dogs have a lot of freedom 99% of the time, but when it's time to 'work,' it's command time. But with a parrot (and in some cases with a dog), what I really want to know is "Do you WANT out?" So, "Up!" and "Out?" are two very different things. Does this all seem reasonable? If so, should just worry about "Out?" now and the "Up!" later, vice versa, or both in parallel? Again, being mindful of not pushing too hard with an older bird in a still-new home. BTW, I know about explaining things to them (going to work, shopping, etc.). I talk to my other pets as well, even if they don't have the cognitive abilities of a parrot. I'll be sure to continue it with him.

One other thing to clarify - I said I may have mis-stated my goals/expectations originally. I do believe that's true to an extent, but I've also altered them a bit thanks to the feedback from this group and I wanted to acknowledge that. Training a grey is clearly not the same as training a labrador* (where I have a LOT more experience) and the subtle (and not so subtle) reminders of that from you guys and from him will go a long way. * Not that I ever really thought it was, but it's easy to slip into old habits or overgeneralize past experiences.

Thanks for the great responses, everyone. Jayd, of course you may, that's why I asked. And yes, I fully realize books aren't everything - that's why I'm here chatting with real owners or real birds realtime - but it does bear repeating. That said, I DO need to read a grey-specific book or two. I'm getting a clearer picture of what you all mean/meant and I can't say I disagree. I think through the limitations of text, I may have misrepresented my goals initially. Everything is, of course, a balance/compromise between freedom and safety as seen from two very different perspectives (I mean mine v his, not mine v yours). And of course we're still getting to know each other, but I'm pretty good at reading my cockatiel, so I have confidence I'll get there with the grey as well. I was once told that my 'superpower' is "Communicates with animals." This will be a good test of that. As a follow-up, we're getting on pretty good. He'll step up a bit now, just doesn't stay very long. I can get him from cage to gym and back without TOO many ruffled feathers, so it's looking good. He's a REALLY good eater and enjoyed the skewers I made for him yesterday and the veggies I clip to his cage. I get a few nips, but I carry on if I need to scoop him off the floor or whatever. As they say in street basketball, no blood, no foul. As for wing-clipping, I used to clip my birds, but stopped a LONG time ago. The grey came to me with one feathered wing, and one missing the flights (picked/chewed or damaged against the cage, I don't know, though I HAVE seen him pick out one new blood feather himself ). This leads to some very awkward dives off his play gym (think of a maple leaf). As far as I know, he's never been flighted and at 13, he's pretty clumsy for it. I don't intend to clip his wings. Whether he lets them grow in is a different story - as is whether or not he knows how to use them. Thanks again. The varied perspectives are appreciated.

A discussion started based on some surprising (to me) responses I got in my greeting thread. In summary, my cockatiel is trained to step up to leave her cage and go back in when I tell her "in." I had intended to work on this with my newly acquired mature (13 y.o.) TAG once settled in. Everyone who responded suggested just letting the bird(s?) in and out as they please (when safely supervised, I presume). This goes against a few books I've read (Guide to a Well-Behaved Parrot and My Parrot, My Friend). I'm looking to extend that conversation here. Perhaps my example scenario of a fire in the house was too extreme, but based on that conversation, it seems very few people (none of those who responded if I understand correctly) train their birds to step up from the cage, or go into the cage, on command. Everyone said they leave the door open and the birds climb in or out at will. I understand that these are smart birds with desires of their own and they should be granted some latitude to express them when safe. Like my 3 year old child who looks to me for guidance and safety, however, are there not times (less extreme than a fire in the house, say returning them to the cage when having to leave for work or getting them out for a vet visit) when "Because I said so," is the proper response? I'm not saying EVERY exit and entry to the cage should be strictly demanded. If the bird doesn't want to come out and you don't NEED him/her to come out, leave well enough alone. But isn't it advisable/desirable to train in that response for when it's needed and not have to resign yourself and bird to a towel and/or bites? Further, if I don't have this 'Because I said so," trump card, how do I keep from getting walked all over by my birds? Insights and further explanations appreciated.

I think I'll pick this up in the training forum. Thanks again, everyone for the greetings. BTW, I'm uploading some new pictures to Flickr Foot closeup: Anya: Bonus - Maggie and Em:

Wow, gorgeous!

Mother Nature is smiling down on you for saving that little bird. Good call grabbing a towel. The one I rescued a few years ago, I foolishly grabbed out of my serviceberry bush with my bare hands. It bit THROUGH my thumb nail before I could get it inside my door. Yikes! But I made sure not to release it outside. Luckily, I knew a neighbor down the street had two 'tiels and regularly set the cage outside. My daughter and I walked over to their house and sure enough, they were shy one bird. The other one was in the back yard calling and calling and calling for its lost buddy. The one I found had been conversing with my 'tiel and budgie upstairs, and that's how I noticed it. Two years later, that woman occasionally shows up on my doorstep with treats or small gifts to thank me for finding (and returning) her bird.

Interesting. So far two votes against, zero for. I guess you can't believe everything you read. Like the issue of cage/gym height. Thanks for the opinions. Keep 'em coming.

What's the consensus (if there is one) here on an "open door policy?" The two books I've re-read recently say the bird should not be allowed to climb out/in on his/her whim, but removed/returned by the person (My Parrot, My Friend states it, Guide To a Well-Behaved Parrot references it). I agree we shouldn't be FORCING them out when we want and they don't, but there are times when we just NEED them out of the cage and a well-rehearsed exit strikes me as a good thing. I mean if there's a fire in the house, I want to be able to say "Step up!" and get him out of the cage (and into his traveler) without question, chasing, or having to resort to a towel. Is this extreme thinking? For what it's worth, with my cockatiel, I can tell when she's not happy about coming out, but does anyway. In those cases, I put her right back in (with an "In" command). That way, we BOTH have a say in the situation. Thoughts? I'm willing to change my thinking on this, but it's just what I've always heard and it makes some sense. That all said, for now I've relaxed the training, as I've said, while he's still getting settled in.

Thanks for being so welcoming, everyone. I've taken a step back on the 'training' and just hung out with him a lot more today, and it's paying off greatly. First off, this morning, I took his cage in the bathroom with me while I took a shower. We have a glass shower, so I could see him and he could see the running water. Occasionally I'd splash some water over the top towards him and he loved it - whistling, bobbing his head, and doing the old Stevie Wonder sway. In talking to his original owner today, I found out he used to love going in the shower. Good to know - sounds like a possible bribe to get him to trust me. Additionally, she said that his toes have been missing since hatching. This evening, I brought both birds down to the kitchen in their cages and my daughter and I took turns feeding them Cheerios. They also got spaghetti and peppers, which they both loved. It was my way of introducing him to the dogs (two labs) and cat. He took it all in stride - never really getting nervous. I played a little tin whistle a bit, and he was rockin' out on his perch (my daughter was dancing, too). After that, we moved to the living room for some Dora the Explorer and World Cup Soccer/Football. For the last hour or so, now, he has been going through a repertoire of whistles, clicks, clucks, and something which may have been a dog barking. No words yet. He's looking very much like he'd like me to come take him out, but when I go over to open the door, he gets up to the back corner of the cage and extends his beak like he's going to bite. I'm not going to push it tonight - just going to let it be a good day. Thanks again everybody. I've got a few pics up on Flickr, and will get more up soon: http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=spencer&w=89453473%40N00

Hi, I'm Mark, but use 'oblivion' all over the internet, so there it is. Either name works fine for me. I even answer to "Hey Stupid!" on occasion. Background: As a kid/teen, I always wanted a macaw. I read up on them, met a few (held my first Blue and Gold at Disney World when I was about 6, which started it all), and have thus far have done the responsible thing (for me/my situation) and avoided getting one. We did have the occasional budgie,finch, and canary growing up, and my sister had a red lori for all too short of a time. My now-wife and I got "our" first bird, a beautiful cockatiel named Anya, early in 2000. I read a ton about birds at the time. A few months later, we added a budgie, Nimue. Sadly, Nim just passed almost 2 months ago, most likely from a reproductive tumor or cycst. She was best described as "an angry ball of sunshine" - small, BEAUTIFULLY colored, and animated like a Gremlin - the got wet and fed after midnight kind. We all miss her terribly, especially Anya. Through a serendipitous set of circumstances, I suddenly find myself in the company of a 13 year old Timneh. I was just starting to think about getting another bird after losing Nimue and mentioned it to a family friend, the owner of said Timneh. She said, "Do you want S.?" Hmm. She is S.'s original momma - she brought him home when he was weaned 13 years ago, but as life goes, she feels she no longer has enough time/attention for him. She feels it's in his best interest she find another home for him. But she's not 'dumping' him - she actually first mentioned this at least a year ago and still hadn't found the right new home for him. I'd kind of forgotten about her wanting to rehome him until she mentioned that. So after some quick parrot refreshers (online and in my old books), much discussion with my wife and daughter (nearly 4 years old) and at least 50 questions, we brought him over in his travel cage for a 'weekend sleepover' to see how we all get along. So far, so good. There's some hesitation, testing, and misbehavior on his end, but nothing I'm too intimidated by yet. He has a few issues which make things a little more difficult, however. The main thing, after no longer being hand-trained, is that he is missing most of his toes on his right foot. Apparently this happened when he was very young - I don't think it was self-inflicted - but am waiting fro a more thorough answer on that. He's also missing part of a toe on his left foot. Again, these are OLD injuries and are completely healed. He's pretty good about getting around his cage and can still sleep on one foot (either foot), so it doesn't slow him down too much. Where it GOES seem to come into play (or maybe I'm just making excuses for him) is when trying to get him to step up. He'll step onto my hand, sometimes with a testing or protesting nip, sometimes without, but immediately flutters off (he is not flighted) - often before I can even praise him. In part, I think he's trying to be boss, for sure, but I also wonder if his unsure-footedness is adding to the issue. Any thoughts on that would be appreciated. In addition/an extension of that is that not being flighted, he is INCREDIBLY clumsy when he does try to get away from step-up practice (even if done on the floor) that I fear he's going to hurt himself. Is this a rational fear or unfounded? Ok, this intro has gotten really long and I've even thrown in some questions so I'd better stop before I get even further carried away. Other than some training issues, he's settling in fairly well. He has no interest/aggression towards the cockatiel and vice versa (they are housed quite separately and I do NOT intend to let them play together/on each others cages). There's also a bunny in the room and at times he seems amused by her. Right now he's getting some time out on a play gym, but I wish I could say he got there gracefully, by hand. I've already been combing through the forums a bit and it looks like there's a bunch of great information here. I look forward to sucking all of the knowledge out of your brains.