katana600

Thanks Val, your experience with Phenix has been invaluable to my work with Gil. She doesn't seem to have quills but the only place I am permitted to touch is the top and back of her head. She has her rules you know. When I rub her head in the usual way, I see tiny little fluffs drift off. Java permits me to hold her, to pinch the quills to help her get the sheath off and occasionally she objects if it is a pin feather that causes her discomfort but she trusts me and when I back off I don't get bitten. Miss Gilbert is another story, but she has relaxed enough to have a distraction in the room without going right for blood. She pulls back, assesses the sound or movement and then goes right back to her scratch session. With Gil, we have our own little dance, two steps forward, one step back. She leads, I follow and sometimes I can sneak in a new move that works. She is just getting to a place where I can trust her body language to offer a step up and take her to another room for upwards of fifteen minutes now before she gets too panicked to enjoy herself. This newly discovered delight of all things Nurtriberry has been a wonderful incentive for her. I don't know what flipped her switch but will use it to her advantage and be very careful not to over use it. My ultimate goal is to get her to willingly come down to the basement with me to sew. She calls me to come back upstairs. She willingly comes down there, but she is not happy away from her cage long enough for me to get anything done. One little step at a time and before we know it she is going to enjoy sewing and hanging out on the lower patio to get some sun.

We have been having major improvement with Gil-girl. When we went away, I expected it to be just for a couple of weeks and it stretched out to more than seven. In that time, we ran low on her regular food and I bought some nutriberries. We have tried them many times and she just didn't seem interested but this time she has been obsessed with them. She begs and pleads for them and will do anything to get more. This morning I found her in the bottom compartment of the new cage where she had gone in trying to open the stainless steel container where they are stored. It seems almost magical that she is this interested in anything I have offered. She allows me to put my hands in her cage and takes them gently from my fingers. Also, she is so comfortable in her new cage that she has permitted me to set it up with all her toys. Generally she is only comfortable with one or two toys at a time and I will rotate them to her tolerance level. Perhaps because her penthouse suite on the top floor is at my eye level to the grates and a system of rope perches right along the grates she is enjoying every inch of her luxury condo. She has been an active ever moving little dynamo in there. She has destroyed more toys in two weeks than in the past five years combined. The mess! Oh the glorious mess. She has been talking non stop and nary a cuss word since we arrived home. At the same time, good stress is still stress to Miss Gilbert. There is a flurry of fluff everywhere inside and out of her cage. At first I thought it was barbering. What I am beginning to suspect is she is having a moult. She has been eager to have me scratch her head every time she sees me and she has been coaxing me over for more. In the past, she had one pink perch that was her acceptable "touching" perch and that was the only spot where she would go when she felt like a little closeness was acceptable. Now she is begging for scratches on her head at every spot in her cage. She even hangs out of the open door and lets me scratch her head with no bars between us and then offers a step up. I have noticed when I rub her head that many little feather fluffs fall out so that seems more like moulting. She always seems happy to come home and we have a time of magic where she is delightful beyond my imagination and this is even better than she has ever aspired to interact with us. We take these moments as they come and use them as a bridge to increasing our contact with her. Even when she backs off, we are at a new level of peeling away the layers that are getting us closer to who she is meant to be. The nutriberries seem to be a key. I just can't figure out if the nutriberries are the incentive or if she has reached a new pinnacle of trust where she could accept something and show her pleasure for receiving them from me. We have tried these treats before on many occasions and she has just picked them out of her dish and discarded them. All I know is everything is coming up roses where she is concerned and I am just going to relax and smell the roses. After five years together, my first waking thought is a smile to greet her and lately, it seems like she is smiling back.

You have my greatest sympathy or empathy. This is an issue that started with my water skiing accident when I was 19. No long war story but what helped for me was to buy a set of those wedge cushions. You can get into a position where you can use your computer and do other things from your bed. The couch may be too soft and make it worse. I used to lay on the floor on my back with my legs on the couch but today I would not be able to get up again. I did try acupuncture and it did help. I was able to find a school of acupuncture. They only charge a minimal amount for visits because it was a requirement for each advanced student to have experience. Probably the most important thing is the exercises they give you for strengthening your core. I know it is unthinkable in your condition to consider hopping out of your nest to exercise, but most of them can be done lying down. The one where you bend your knee and pull it up to your chest helps stretch things out a bit. It doesn't seem to make any immediate impact, but I learned the hard way to do them every day. It is counterintuitive to move when you hurt the most, but the walking and gentle stretches do help your body reduce stress. You have every right to complain, I read once that cussing seems to diminish pain. That hasn't helped me much but Miss Gilbert does that when she is distressed, there might be something to it. I remember all those many years ago when I was so bereft at losing Juno that your song "Just Breathe" pulled me out of the abyss and gave me comfort when nothing else seemed to make sense. You have been there for others and our hearts sincerely reach out to you in your rough times.

My first addition would be an avian vet. You will get tons of advice and you might even get a lead on breeders in your area. You might be able to discuss the cost of veterinary care, payment requirements etc. Next, find paper adding machine tape, not the thermal kind. I get mine at Sam's. There are acrylic holders available but when we travel, I just use leather laces to tie them to the bars. Read up on foraging and enrichment activities, there are some threads on the forum and links to a multitude of ideas to make toys using straws, cupcake wrappers and other household items. One of the first things I did was read that Teflon and t-fal pans in my kitchen could potentially be fatal if it was overheated. I changed the hood on my stove to vent outside and it has a thermal sensor so it will come on automatically. My thought at first was that I am the only one home most of the time, and I am careful. And then, I forgot a pan on the stove before I even got my baby home so I switched to all stainless steel pots and pans. I second the recommendation for a bell. The stainless steel bell is parrot specific. It has a long tube and the clapper is short enough the parrot can't reach it to dismantle it or get a beak or toenail stuck. I also highly recommend the aviator harness. When you get a baby and train him from the beginning to accept the harness, you are getting ahead of the curve on that one. Miss Gilbert is somewhere between ten and fifteen years old now. She has not been a good candidate for "training". Your breeder and your vet will have lots more suggestions. Our breeder had a little tent in with her babies and they loved it. I bought one for the breeder to rotate with hers so that Juno would have his "smell" on it and it was a comfort to him.

Now you have had a bit of the emotional rollercoaster that is living with a grey. Just when you think you understand what is going on, it changes. Our vet recommends removing the band, so none of my birds wear theirs although just for safekeeping, I have saved them. I always thought it was like that mattress tag which reads "Do not remove under penalty of law." Once we started attempting to find Java's information, we realized that the band doesn't necessarily give us useful information. About twenty five years ago a closed band was an indication the parrot was banded as a newly hatched chick to identify the poachers bringing in wild captured birds. That doesn't seem to be the case in the US today. Unless you have an address where Buddy came from, have visited and know the situation, it really is hard to tell over the internet. It may have been a test to see how far you will go. We have had some new members trying to figure out if the ad they answered was real. You are on the right track with thoughtful planning to prepare for getting a new family member. I remember how that felt about seven years ago when I was waiting to bring Juno home and the date kept getting pushed back because he wasn't ready. Hopefully when your chick hatches you will have the opportunity to visit and get to know him before bringing him home.

Congratulations to you, Andy and Charlie on your expanded family. Thanks for joining us on grey forums. Charlie may be more bonded with Andy today but that could change when he reaches adulthood. With that said, our rehomed Timneh is well past that stage and even though I am the cook, housekeeper and everything else... I am not her favored one. It doesn't stop me from trying though, LOL. You have had a great adjustment period and it sounds like Charlie is well loved and supremely doted upon. Please don't wait for him to get new feathers before insisting on the harness, just like a new baby rolling for the first time, you don't get a warning. His feathers and muscle strength will sneak up on you. I'm sure you are already training him to the harness as you are very well-read and intuitive for his caretaking. He is a lucky boy. When you have a chance to read over the forum posts, you are going to love Sterling's outdoor aviary. Thanks for joining us and welcome to the family!

The key thing I picked up in you post is "... then he never had anything to do with it at all." There are so many variables with vitamins, sunlight, natural moulting phases, and too many other factors to list of which Isaac has absolutely no control. You have been such a great support system to him and have loved him feathered and frumpy. Cheers to working your mind overtime trying everything to help him get back to his regal self. I love looking him right in the eye in the photo, he is a beautiful boy.

Congratulations on letting Buddy find his way into your heart and home. If that photo is any indication, it looks like he is willing to come close to you. Many re-homes spend the first stretch of grey time in a far corner growling. For names... Gilbert came into our lives already named and was dead set against being renamed. Our other parrot, Java has no preference to what I call her and sometimes I call her poppet or other pet names. Lucky for you, Buddy sounds like a generic name for pal. If you start calling him Poppy when you give him treats and he responds to that he may not be resistant to change. It is going to be exciting times to watch you and your family get acquainted with your adoptee.

Every home is unique just as every parrot is an incredible individual. In five years we have gone through four main cages and three travel cages trying to meet Miss Gilbert's ever changing needs. We started out with the "bigger is better" and bought one like Alex shared in an earlier post on this thread. She sat on one perch trembling for most of her first year. Miss Gilbert is unable to fly and is much more secure in a smaller cage, so we went to a midsize cage. On this most recent trip to Texas, a cat in the house necessitated a taller, stronger cage than the travel cage so we got a stacked cage that is most likely for breeders. It is 24X36 inches in each of three stacked cage compartments. Miss Gilbert has the penthouse suite, Java has the middle and all the food and supplies fit nicely in the bottom. The bottom compartment also works nicely to replace the dog crate for our two mini dachshunds. Unfortunately, unassembled, the length of each panel is well over six feet. It will not fit in our van so it won't work for our many travels to visit family. So, now it is in my living room and is perfect for our current needs. For the first time, Gil is using every inch of her living space. There really is no "one size fits" as we have discovered with our many changes. When you get a baby parrot, try to use only the bottom of the cage and don't put perches up high. Depending on the innate character of your little one, it may get used to the lower cage and continue to use it when it gets older as you expand to use the top of the cage as well.

Whoa! He is looking finer than Miss Gilbert with his new tummy feathers. Glad to hear the almond milk seems to be a factor. I put it in her oatmeal. While we have been away for two months we got out of that daily habit and you just reminded me how much we both enjoyed it. Thanks for the update, your posts never fail to make me smile.

Glad to hear Vincent is feeling better and back to his boisterous self. Right when we wish they would be quiet for a spell, we realize we wouldn't trade the noise for an uncomfortable flock member. "Dear Pat... you were absolutely right".... music to his ears. LOL

First, I am so sorry your puppy is suffering and you have my thoughts and prayers for her recovery. Phoenix may just be quietly watching and giving you the space to care for your puppy. They are very tuned in to our emotions and the lives of extended family/flock members. He seems to be mirroring the stress of your household and it is common for our parrots to be quiet while things are stressful. This is all new to him. I can only speak for my own experience. We have gone through some serious illnesses with family members and each time, during the worst of times, Miss Gilbert will become quiet and sometimes barber her chest feathers. Once we get back home, she and I both take some time to decompress and I don't push her too hard to try to get her to snap out of it. She seems to find her way back and even try new things after she processes the change in our life. I'm not sure about covering him during the day. If you cover him at night and that is a normal routine, leaving him covered or covering him a little early might extend his resting time. But if you are in the room and he is covered where he can't see what is happening, it is uncertain whether it would stress him more. Can you dim the room, close the drapes etc. to reduce stimulation but still permit him to see you coming and going? Also, when Gil would see me sleep during the day after a long night of caretaking, it seemed to make her a little nervous. In the wild if a flock member was sleeping during the day, it would have been a bad sign and could have been a draw to predators which would endanger the whole flock. As you say, you can't remove him from the room so going about your business, reassuring him and caring for your puppy as best you can may be the only options right now. Once the stress abates, Phoenix will take his time to process the changes and get back to his cheerful self. He may not be bonded with your puppy since you have had her such a short time. He may be cueing off your stress. Do your best to talk to him and explain as much as you can to reassure him you are okay and he is okay. He is still your beautiful little chatterbox and will be resilient. Maybe he is just resting to be your rock when things are back to normal at your house.

Thank you for your kind comments, I have had Miss Gilbert five years now. I appreciate that you read her thread, I know it is lengthy. To be honest, CAG/TAG, baby/rehomed isn't the biggest factor. The innate personality of your parrot mixed with your family creates an every changing dynamic. It really is like living with a two year old... for the rest of your life. There will be days when they are charming, affectionate and cheerful and days when you beg for darkness to come and escape to your slumber hoping for a new day to change your luck. :~} If you go in with the attitude that you will stick with it no matter what, you brain seldom will look for a way out, but for a solution instead. One of the books I read while I was considering a life with parrots is "The Parrot Problem Solver: Finding Solutions to Aggressive Behavior Book by Barbara Heidenreich" My goal was to read about how humans inadvertently turn those cute little chicks into tyrants in the household. It is a good book and she is very astute when it comes to living with companion parrots. The forum members here are an excellent support system. We are just about to reach our retirement years and have gone to great lengths to create good cage systems at our family homes in Pennsylvania and Texas and bought a dream travel van to make it reasonably simple to carry our little flock with us. Our lives ebb and flow and sometimes living with a parrot is easy and entertaining but when they are not happy it is like a perpetually teething, cranky child who only understands having her needs met. Once you embrace the idea that this is not a pet, but a family member with high expectations of you forever, you will make it work regardless of the story behind your initial connection. I appreciate seeing someone thinking about it, researching it and really getting an idea of what it is like to live with a parrot. Even then, it is like attempting to describe parenthood... there is nothing that prepares you for the joy and terror of being handed that new baby with no instruction manual.

It is very courageous to consider this topic. The only thing I am sure about is the only thing constant is change. Something I was absolutely certain about a year ago has changed and we never really know what is around the next corner. I have a deep and abiding sense that around the corner, hidden from my view is something wonderful that today I could not even contemplate because it is outside my vast array of life experience. For the most part our forum is made up of a family with like-minded views of living with a companion parrot or flock. There are too many to mention but as a whole those of us who took in a rescue parrot have a view that it is a frustrating, uncertain an amazingly rewarding experience. I can only imagine how many good people are in a happy life right now giving no thought that parrots in other homes even exist. Then one day they notice a parrot, maybe they think about it for a while. Those people have a spark of kinship with a feathered soul. One day their life may change and somebody who knows somebody will say "I know of this parrot looking for a home and you might be interested." Not everything can be planned. Sometimes we are directed to opportunity that changes our lives and our minds. For me, I could not imagine making a decision to leave word to euthanize my beloved companions. Could we even make certain there would be someone who could agree to carry out our plan? It opens my mind to questions I would otherwise never have thought to ask. I do spend time going round and round in my head trying to find a plan to do right by these wonderful parrots who have been taken from nature for our entertainment and companionship. If we had a time machine to go back and change the world so the first person never took home a baby parrot would that really be the best thing? Those of us who know this love of discovery that our parrot is a sentient being with innate cleverness and the ability to share our language. We all have a different world view of the environment and all creatures great and small. For me personally, I have learned more from Miss Gilbert in five years than all the other life relationships in my years. Being on this forum has changed many human relationship ideas I may have been unaware of otherwise. We have something in common yet all of us are beautifully unique... Just like our parrots. For my own peace of mind, I have someone who loves me and tolerates my parrot. I know I can trust him to make decisions he knows would please me. He doesn't have to promise to live with my parrot.... Only to promise to find her a home that he can look in on her, provide for her financial needs if necessary and to live with his conscience that he is doing what he believes I would do in those decisions. Thanks for being the forum family where we can be safe to share these thoughts with others who care about their extended flock as part of our own. We don't need to reinvent the wheel but together we are much greater than the sum of our parts. That synergy with the discussion of this topic may change our world for the better.

We have a houseguest who was here four years ago and he has been marveling at the transformation of Gilbert to Miss Gilbert today. I can look at photos and not really see the difference. As she changes in grey time, I can barely notice changes except celebrating big milestone moments. She has better travel experiences when the family circumstances for visits are more relaxed but every time and she makes great strides when she comes home to sleep on her own roost. Maybe that is due to my own feeling that there is no place like home. Quite likely Miss Gilbert isn't the only one to undergo changes from our time away from home. All I know is her behavior when we return is a breath of fresh air, renewed hope for her to grow into who she is meant to be and a great appreciation for her resilience. I love this little bundle of fluff. She has a captivating intelligence and a unique spirit and I will forever be trying to learn new ways to win her heart and help her understand we are a team.

Ah, I misinterpreted your first post as thinking a Timneh was the best fit from your research and thought that meant you were swayed away from a Congo because of the idea a Timneh would adapt to your household better. My advice remains to follow your heart. When Gilbert was offered, I couldn't bear to think about replacing either of our Congo babies. Then I spent five months agonizing over my heart thinking it was the right thing to do but my brain saying it was too much of a commitment to an unknown. There was no illusion that I was getting a multiple rehome with a history of issues. I had to think very hard about whether I could commit and stick to it no matter how she behaved in our life. After that kind of beginning, a failed rehome would be tragic. Would I recommend taking a hard case rehome for a first time parrot? Probably not at your life stage, but I wouldn't rule it out without knowing you personally. I think there are fewer tough cases on the forum than cherished rehomed greys living in long term, well-adjusted forever homes. You are doing the right thing to study first. The pitfalls, mess, and pure exhilaration that comes with giving your heart and companionship to an exquisite and complicated character can't be told as much as lived to understand what it means to love your African grey. When the time is right you will know it. I "kinda" thought about it for twenty years and here I am now knowing Miss Gilbert was meant to find me.

Now that we are finally home after a couple of months away, I am having a technology crisis with the laptop and iPad and yesterday my phone took a swim. While it is sitting in the rice and silica packs, I am trying to get settled in at home. Miss Gilbert is doing an amazing job getting settled. We are hosting a resident artist and he was holding one of our dogs. I lost my focus and used my kid's joke saying "squirrel". The dog went crazy thinking there was one on the deck. We were laughing. Later, in a calm moment Miss Gilbert decided to stir things up and said "squirrel" to the same effect. To see her engage and say something new was really heartwarming. As is her usual trend when we return home from travel, she is very affectionate to me right now. She is asking for head rubs outside her cage and generally louder and much more cheerful than her usual. Just when I think nothing she does would surprise me, she goes through a jolly trickster spell like this and I wonder if we are peeling back the layers of baggage and getting a glimpse of who she is meant to be.

It's been a while since I could catch up on the forum. You have an amazing gift for taking care of your flock. I still have a lot of reading to do and just wanted you to know I've missed you and am sendings a virtual hug to you and yours. :-)

Take your time with Ed, he will relax and recognize you are a safe human in his own time frame based on previous experience. You are building trust even when you feel frustrated and wanting to help him more. We didn't know Miss Gilbert's gender for about three years because I didn't think it really mattered. When the opportunity arose fir the vet to require bloodwork we asked to run DNA and discovered then he was actually a she. Hopefully Ed will soon realize you are not going to pounce on him and devour him and he will calm down from the transition to your home enough to get curious and watch you from a little distance to analyze your intentions and accept you as a friendly companion. If you think you are being patient, be ten times more patient. Don't ignore him completely, just approach to his level of tolerance and stay there until you get a sign that you can come an inch closer. Of course you have to feed him and take care of his cage. Try to do that with a predictable schedule and as quickly and efficiently as possible. If you can close off the room where he is caged to keep him safe, then open the main door where he can get out to the cage top while you reach in and do scary stuff, that might help. He will most likely want to retreat to the safety of his cage when you step away. Another technique I used with Miss Gilbert was to put a small plastic tray above my hand so she didn't see my scary mitts when I reached in to replace food and water dishes. Ed will cue off your emotions when you approach him. Try to visualize what you are going to do, have everything ready and then gently tell him what you are going to do.

I have used a product called "Poop off" marketed specifically for bird droppings and it works great. Walmart carries a cleaning product called "Out" which works equally well and has a similar composition enzyme cleaner. "Out" originally had one formula for carpet/fabric/hard floors and have recently marketed separate formulas. The hard floor cleaner is not the one I would use because it now is just a surfactant and fragrance. The carpet cleaning formula has the formula that is familiar. I have seen it instantaneously dissolve green poo stains on white carpet. I use it for laundry stains as well. I use the more expensive "Poop Off" for stubborn stains on the bird cage or drop cloth where my parrots come into direct contact and it lasts what seems like forever. Then I use "Out" for bird and food stains on my clothes and everything else. It worked miracles recently concerning an un-neutered male cat's marking musk.

I have had both Congo African greys (CAG) and currently have a Timneh African grey (TAG). The circumstances have been different for each of them and each has had unique qualities and outcomes. I personally think it comes down to the character of the individual parrot and the home environment and family dynamics. I highly recommend rehoming a parrot if you have the desire, the time and the willingness to commit to seeing it through. Regardless, there is a steep learning curve and once you get the concept of grey time, the rewards are unmeasurable. If you have your heart set on a CAG, go with it. Getting a TAG hoping for it to be a "better model" may not lead you to the right fit if your heart soars when you see a CAG. I so loved my baby CAG Juno and when he died unexpectedly, a part of my heart never recovered. There is a yearning that will never be filled, but with that said, I just had a breakthrough moment with Miss Gilbert and she just let me rub her head outside her cage and there is no better sense of awe at her strength to overcome adversity. She is not, nor ever will be a replacement for Juno or Kopi but I can attest to the power of this little grey fluff of feathers lining my empty nest with purpose and great rewards. Good luck with your search, you will find your match regardless of the CAG/TAG decision.

Hi and welcome to the forum. The first time with a rehomed grey is scary and exciting at once. Before long you will be sharing advice with a newcomer and helping someone else through the adjustment period. Greys are very subtle parrots so if yours is growling she is stressed to the max. Other than feeding times, see how close you can be before she starts growling. Then stay back behind that point and talk, read, sing, whistle , talk on the phone and interact with anyone else in your home. Let her observe you from a distance without trying to interact with her. Soon she will give you a cue that you can come a little closer or address her more directly. I think the hardest thing for me during the adjustment phase was learning to do "nothing". It's natural to be so excited about your hopes and dreams for sharing a wonderful life with your new friend that makes us want to welcome and soothe her and show her love. In her food, offer her almonds in and out of the shell. If you know any of her favorite foods, leave them in a dish for her and move away. Sometimes talking gently with the lights dimmed low might help so she isn't so overstimulated and overwhelmed by your presence. Congratulations on your new friendship, it gets better and better. What is your parrot's name?

Miss Gilbert is putting another nine hundred mile notch in her travel cage today. We have gotten our grandson off to a great start. As I was slipping out the door at three am, a very Miss Gilbert-like wicked thought crossed my mind to text my daughter about two hours out "Whoops, I forgot the parrot, will pick her up in six months". Bwahahaha. But, I was thwarted when I saw her sitting on the steps by the front door to say goodbye. More like she was celebrating the moment the travel cage went out the door. Gil has traditionally behaved much better on road trips than at home. It may be the parrot-sense that she is being introduced to her new home and she is making nice on a "honeymoon" phase. She has previously shown great adoration to my sister on our long visits. Andrés has been sweet to her at our home, but so has Rachel, so I'm not sure why she notched it up with wooing Andrés this trip. It's so good to see her elicit a step up from inside her cage and then sit with him on the sofa for long head scritching sessions outside her comfort zone. She has come a long way baby.

If you do need to have a little airflow you could put a wire mesh around the screen and put a box fan blowing out the window to draw the air outside and keep your parrots safe.

I will have to look up this echo thing. It does sound like the perfect parrot accessory. It will give us a laugh or two. I had to spend many hours to figure out how to make my car stop turning on my phone's Bluetooth in order to "schedule" routine maintenance appointments. I can only imagine how tough it will be to keep the parrot out of my wallet.