katana600

Hi Syed, when I read your post yesterday, I was trying to recall Oliver because I recognized Charlie Parker. Today I went back to follow your posts and understand Oliver is about 8 years old and you rehomed him sometime in May. He has been through a lot of change with pet shop, new people, new home and a new cage. Charlie Parker came to you at just three weeks and will have a totally different relationship with you and Andy. Dave has some good suggestions, the body language is the best place to start. Since Andy can handle Oliver but has also been bitten, I think you are coming out of the "honeymoon" phase with a rehomed grey. Previously, Oliver was coming out or permitting Andy to bring him out because he was observing the new home and trying to figure things out. The posture you describe with him on the couch, crouching and seeming like he wants to "get at you" may be him trying to get away. If he can't fly and was placed on the couch, crouching and swaying may be him trying to prepare to fly back to the cage. Biting is not uncommon for a scared bird. Oliver needs a LOT more time to figure things out. Putting him on the floor, using a stick to pick him up and put him where you want him is not going to help build trust. No one likes to be bitten and rather than trying hard not to react, for now don't let Oliver be put in a situation where to him that is his only option to communicate his fear and displeasure. He needs you to understand he is trying to say "NO!" in avoiding you. In the beginning with Miss Gilbert, when our forum friends were telling me to go slowly, I thought that meant a few weeks, a month maybe. Then I came to understand grey time and it has taken me years. It doesn't sound like Oliver has had the human drama that Miss Gilbert had with multiple rehomes. The gift you are giving him is unconditional acceptance and if you rethink the patience and time frame you are giving him the grace to take this relationship at his pace. You will be greatly rewarded with a much slower hands off approach for now.

It was magical while it lasted. Saturday morning I approached her cage with fresh food and water. She scurried to the front of her cage and to her favorite scratching perch for a little loving before breakfast as she has been doing. But not. This time she attacked the bars with a vengeance. The food dish is out of reach so I just kept talking to her, filled her dishes and waited for her to calm down. She tucked her head for a scratch, grasping the bars which is her "tell" that all is well and we are friends again. And that was a ploy. She came through the open door and her intent was to bite me. I thought for sure it was because we went too far during our kitchen bonding and she was letting me know she wasn't going to do that again. She had a tantrum, threw food and water, rang her bell while making all the danger sounds, foghorns and sirens. It didn't last long and she never reached the cussing phase, nor did she resort to self harm. Within ten minutes, I approached again, she tucked her head and enjoyed ten minutes of head scratches but she kept pulling back to look askance at me. That is when I realized I had made a rookie mistake, this wasn't about her taking a step backward. Would you believe, it has been five years since I have had my hair cut? I had been pulling it up into a bun, keeping it off my face and enjoying a fuss free "style". Friday afternoon I got a hair cut and I never gave it a thought when I approached her. Duh! Today we are back in the kitchen and she is making a mess again! That's progress.

This set me off for an hour or more following links, looking at pictures and reading about the Festive and Bodini Amazons Ray. They are beautiful. Some day I may travel to Colombia with my grandson to see his paternal grandmother there. I would love to see this Amazon in the wild. Thanks Ray!

I am working up to a ride in the Pak-O-Bird on the front of my motorcycle, tucked in behind the windscreen so she can see what I see. That is as close to flying as she is going to get. But I am guessing if she is afraid of the vacuum cleaner, the Suzuki isn't going to win me any parrot mom of the year gift mug from her. Hahahaha.

I understand about your girlfriend's mother. It's too bad she couldn't be a positive reinforcement for your relationship with Nonsense. Life is complicated and our greys are the most complex relationship in my experience. As Acappella says, you are doing well with reading Nonsense and working to build trust. Your posts definitely show that you care about Nonsense and want her life to be the best it can possibly be. I look forward to watching this relationship develop. Glad to hear Nonsense shredded that cardboard. Keeping such an intelligent and exquisite creature gainfully occupied is a full time job.

Those daily stretches are important. Not only does it help you to be more limber and flexible, it makes you more mindful of your body signals. Concentrate on your breathing while you stretch. One of the things chronic pain does to us over time is to be tense. When we are in pain, the natural response is for our body to tense and immobilize the part that hurts. When it is sciatic pain, that tension starts in the brain and affects every body part. When or muscles are tense, pain signals get jumbled up and the pain becomes the prominent focal point which creates a cycle of more pain. Then we tend to hold our breath and here we go again. I kind of think of the stretching in the same way as offering Gilbert my love every day, even when it seemed futile, even when I couldn't see results. Just as a drop of water consistently dripped on a stone will wear it away, those stretches slowly slowly change your posture, your body awareness and strengthen your core. I am so happy to know your physiotherapy was lovely. Be kind and gentle to yourself.... and sing. Your singing still soothes my heart seven years later...

Hahaha. Yes that was a lot of almonds. To be fair, 90 percent was the ripping and tearing and there are more almonds on the table, chair and floor than ingested. Right about now, I am in the overindulgent grandma mode. That would be like giving my grandson a gallon of ice cream at one sitting. The funny part is that she asked to go back to her cage and promptly asked in a really sweet voice for a treat. I let that one slide.

This is her fifth almond in one sitting.

This has been such a good day for Miss Gilbert. She stayed with me in the kitchen for a Gil's World Record, more than an hour. She gingerly agreed to go from the back of a chair to the table top. She bowed her head and let me rub her head, for real, no bars - no bite. She went to the garage with me and met a neighbor when he borrowed tools. They have lived next door and have been over but she was a recluse and wouldn't come out of her cage. She started trembling about then and asked "Wanna go back?", which means back to her comfort zone. She spent the next hour in her cage plaintively trying to convince herself "Gilbert's okay". I thought we had gone a step too far because she got in her cage and threw water everywhere. Previously that has been a reaction to scary things. Imagine my surprise when I was cleaning and walked past her cage when she said in a demanding tone "C'mon over here!". That's what she usually says to the dog when she is bossing him around. I went to her and she stood on her perch for what I thought was going to be a head scratch. She lifted her foot to step up and urged me "C'mon c'mon". My mind was just incredulous. Is this the same parrot? She came right to me and back to the kitchen we went. Since she is feeling so adventurous I wrapped an almond in a piece of paper and twisted the ends. Previously, I have tried a thousand times to offer her foraging treats. She was sure they were poison, nothing doing. Would you believe she has gone through four almonds in the time I typed this post? She drank water from my glass and she is acting like we have been like this forever. I am under her spell, she is eating almond number five. This seems like a dream. I have kept a poker face, watched my computer screen and only look at her to hand her another gift wrapped almond. I tried to speak to her and she dropped the almond and went rigid. What a glorious mess she is making! I love it. I will try to post a picture.

It is clear how much you love Nonsense and wish to become friends. I am also a member of the "envy camp" when I see touching, playing and delightful interactions. It is even harder because long ago, in the beginning my first baby grey Juno came home. He was cooperative, playful and loving. The memory of him chortling in the morning as he clamored with pink flushed face to get to me as soon as I walked into the room still makes my heart sing. The wonder and awe I felt the first time he flew from his cage on his own to land on my shoulder while I prepared his breakfast will always lift my spirits. I only knew six weeks of joy with him before he showed signs of illness and took him to the vet three times as they assured me he had a little throat infection. It was more serious than that and within a week he passed away at the vet as they took him from my arms. From knowing the pure joy of his love, affection and trust to reaching a decision to take in a "bird with issues" has been a walk of faith. I have faith that deep inside my tattered, scared, distrustful first meeting with Miss Gilbert that she has the capacity to love and be love. It has been five years of the wonderful people on this forum offering encouragement and suggestions that our village is creating something new and wonderful in the heart of a little parrot who deserves to thrive. For now, the one thing you offer to Nonsense is unconditional love and a commitment to stick with her no matter what. I have had to work a whole lot harder to win over Miss Gilbert than what just came naturally to Juno. The hard work makes me appreciate the smallest hard won gesture on her part to come closer to me. Every good encounter opens the path to more good things. You will win over Nonsense with slow, steady progress. She may never show the kind of affection that was easy for Juno, but she will win your heart and soul with acceptance of each concession she makes toward you. This is the meaning of grey time. It will come.

Q, I certainly understand your fears. My thought is to let her interact with the one person able to coax her out. Let Mum bring her to a table perch were you are sitting close. Don't reach for her, let her come to you. If Nonsense shows body language of aggression toward you, let Mum remove her from the situation while it is still on a positive note. It does take a long long time but with every interaction that doesn't involve coercion or end in bloodshed on your part is a win. I read here often that greys are subtle and resort to a bite when they can't communicate with their retreat or posturing. The problem with that is once they have bitten, it becomes the first tool in the arsenal until they learn better ways. Mum has to be on board, to chastise Nonsense when she is aggressive, to take her out of the fun, and to return to you and show Nonsense that Mum likes and trusts you. Maybe Mum could hand you treats that you then start with putting in Nonsense's cage dish and work toward her receiving good things from you. If Mum could model behavior such as giving you a treat and you giving her treats prior to working with Nonsense, that might go a long way toward reaching peace. I commend your willingness to keep trying with Nonsense. We went through a lot of suffering with Miss Gilbert and it has taken years, but now that she is being less fearful and more affectionate toward each of us, I know that holding back and waiting for her to come forward has been key.

There may be something "different" about her vision because she is much more tuned in to sounds. She definitely can see because she stops often when I am stroking her head to check whether my finger is through the bars of her cage or through the open door. She also can go straight to the favored kidney beans in her bean mix without "sorting" and she can tell if I am glancing sideways at her when I am at my computer. This morning I am especially delighted with her. For a couple of weeks now, she has been much more interested in close contact even above getting her first Nutriberry of the morning. As I suspected with her head bobbing and gurging, she is being very "luvvy". She is doing the wing droop and making the clucking and cooing sounds. At the table, she bowed her head and I gently touched her. As usual, she pulls back to look at my hand. I am careful not to look directly at her. She lifted her foot and held my finger. I rubbed her toes and she sat very still enjoying the moment. She has allowed me to touch her foot through the bars but she has never permitted me to hold a toe this way. She also is staying longer and longer at the table. I put a few pieces of paper on her side and she is exploring and gingerly touching things. The best part of all is when I ask if she wants to go back. Usually she is so nervous that the first offer I give her she sticks her foot up to signal she wants to step up. Lately she is refusing my offer to go back and has even stepped into her cage and turned right back around asking to come out again. She doesn't persist with the love dance or head bobs so I don't think its all hormonal or anything. She seems to have turned a corner in trust. I am crossing my fingers that we move ten steps forward before the next step back.

You are on my mind and in my heart today as you go to therapy for your back pain. Hopefully they help you get back on your feet and on the path to recovery. I am so sorry that you have suffered so long.

I do love those baby chick pictures. Poppy is perfect. You have it right, your lives will be enriched by her companionship. She will thrive in your home with your family and you will wonder how you ever got along without her.

Miss GreycieMae has you just where she wants you and I do believe she is tinkering with your heart. Be careful which videos you let her watch, she might make you "well adjusted". Bwahahaha.. She is a real gem. Your whole family is involved and smitten with her. What a great set up.

Gosh it is good to be getting settled in back at home again with no travel in the near future. Today has been magnificent with Miss Gilbert. She not only came to sit with me at the kitchen table, as I worked at the computer, she came closer and closer and she bowed her head for a scratch. I've been duped by that maneuver more than fifty times and have been bitten for my gullibility and I don't mind telling you it made my stomach just a little queasy to try it one more time. She didn't tolerate much touching but this time she just moved away rather than giving me the cobra strike. I am enjoying her so much in her newfound affections during this homecoming. One of the things that have changed was the change from the individual cages to the really tall, stacked 3-compartment "breeder cage". Gil has the top bunk and Java the center and they both seem real appreciative of the change. The living space is smaller by volume compared to the previous cage. However, it is about equal to the space that Gil actually used previously. Whereas the perches were spread apart vertically in the old cage, they are much closer together so she still has a top, middle and bottom to travel. Since it is more compact vertically though, all the perches are within easy beaking which has made it easier for her to scuttle from any point in her cage to her favorite scratching perch in a matter of nanoseconds. In the past week, I have really been taking stock of the monumental leap she has made from the first year of clinging to one perch trembling to coming out of the cage onto my hand almost every time I ask her now. Every time we reach a plateau, I think, this might be the best it ever gets. I am firmly prepared to accept that she just can't trust me enough to take one more step forward. I give her suggestions, try new things, new toys, new food and I might get rejected 499 times before she finally accepts my offer and then we climb just a little higher to test our wings. The right thing at just the right time seems miraculous when I see her relax and change a little. The new cage was magical. Traveling and coming home again is magical. Stepping up from inside her cage seems like a miracle. She has gone from viciously attacking my hands to biting the bars of her cage after I pulled away to now just fluffing up, grinding her beak and getting twenty minute head massages. Sometimes when she is wary about a noise, or worried I might touch her through an open door of her cage, she will pull back and watch me but she leaves her food up on the bar because she isn't quite ready to stop the exchange. Lately when she does this, I rub her toes. Her beak is right there and she could really nail me if she decided to, but she watches me rub one toe after the other and the bottom of her talons. We still have the rule that when I am touching her I am not permitted to look at her and by no means may I speak to her or the spell is broken and she tears things up in her cage to show her frustration. That is another really huge change in her behavior. In the beginning, if she was scared, frustrated or just plain ticked off, she would bite herself or barber her feathers in a frenzy. I have seen her yank out a solid flight feather follicle and all. It is every bit as gut wrenching as watching her turn to a stone and just shake in a frozen state of terror. It seems like it has taken so so long to reach her and bring her to a better state of mind. Slowly, I see gradual changes that are remarkable. Like the pinning of her eyes. I can see in each pupil a "comma" shape. Her vet said that is a sign of trauma, a head or eye injury. I really thought she might be incapable of pinning. That was tough because that is sometimes the only warning before a bite. I think it has been about a year since I saw her pin her eyes for the first time and it was so slow as to almost be a figment of my imagination. This morning while she sat next to me, her pupils were constantly adjusting. She doesn't have the range or the speed of pinning that Java has, nor what I have seen in other parrots. It is more like a slow motion... not too big, not too small kind of thing, but I believe it is progress. I still couldn't read her body language from her eyes pinning, but that is the kind of girl she is. She would be a tough opponent in a poker match. Finally.... the best part? Today when she sat next to me and when she let me briefly touch her head, she was blushing. A couple of times in the past week, after a nice morning head scratch session, I thought her face looked slightly blushed. I couldn't be sure. Today, I am sure. She blushed the way my baby Juno would blush first thing in the morning when he was happy to see me. I do believe I have seen a crack in the poker face. I do believe I have seen the first real sign that maybe, just maybe she likes me.... just a little... not too much. It is progress and I will take anything she is willing to give.

I had to come back to this thread to tell you how wonderful the folks at Celltei have been in helping me get the right buckles to put new straps on my Pak-O-Bird. I bought mine more than seven years ago and they have been improving them all along so finding the right buckles is going to be a treasure hunt but their customer service has been remarkable. If I ever get Miss Gilbert to the place where she is adventurous enough to go for a motorcycle ride, I will figure out a "dash cam" to get a video. Thanks again for bringing up the subject and reminding me to give our girl a chance to sing in the wind.

Aw, you brought tears to my eyes at the sweetness of your bedtime routine with Gracie. She learned precious things from you. I wonder what Phenix sees when he looks at or through those translucent neon acrylics? I've read that parrots have receptors in their eyes that allow them to see in the ultraviolet range. It reminds me of Nilah when Talon's kids dyed the dog pink.

What a cute picture of Talon. Now that Gil has agreed to come out of her comfort zone, you gave me a great idea to make some tasty tidbits for her to be rewarded for her courage. Thanks! Love the photo.

I have the green, medium Pak-O-Bird. Miss Gilbert is close to the same size as Inara. Your post inspired me to contact the company to get new straps, so we can walk together. Miss Gilbert seems very content to be inside her Pak-O-Bird. I have used it as a car carrier, and as a vet transport. Since she likes the seclusion, she likes the side panels down. Ours does not have the stainless steel mesh. Gil has been in hers for 16 hours at a time on car trips and has not had any inclination to chew on it or destroy it. Then again, it has taken us five years to get her to play with toys. When we get the new straps I will let you know how Gil reacts to riding in it for walks.

""Rollin' rollin' rollin, keep them birdies rollin' Rawhide!" Recently Gil has started whistling "Dixie". I'm pretty sure she learned that in her previous life. But she is picking up new words (and thankfully letting others slide away from daily use). I got a new tv remote that has a "recall" feature and it sounds like the sonar in a submarine. Once she heard that Gil repeated it about a hundred times in one evening until she perfected it. Also, I may be repeating myself but during an especially exciting bath I had my grandson in a tub on the counter when he "spewed". It was unexpected, I squealed. Then I sprayed him with the kitchen sprayer and he squealed. Gilbert was around the corner out of sight and I shouted "Poo KA No". She got such a big kick out of it that apparently she thinks that is his name now. If we Skype, talk on the phone or even just mention our Houston family Gil gives us her rendition of "Poo KA No". Gil is just making great progress. Over the July 4th weekend we had to drive to meet family in Baton Rouge to get my car home from Houston. Our vet had a new tech and she was so good with our dogs I was mentioning to the vet how I was impressed. She told me that Kiera does home/pet sitting to help with college expenses. I asked if she was free that very weekend and she was. It is probably the first time I have left Gil with someone that I didn't come home to a bundle of nerves. She allowed Kiera to reach in to change food and water and even bowed her head and let her give scratches. Earlier today while I was trying to figure out how to post the photo that kept turning sideways, Gil stayed with me and stepped from the back of the chair to the table. She was there all of a half hour. There was no shaking, no pleading to go back and when I offered to take her back, it was another first because she declined and stayed on the table a little longer. She was like a little statue, just frozen in place. I didn't look at her or speak to her. I just kept working on the computer. Still, inside I felt like cheering and giving her a hug. It is the small victories like this that make Gil my little miracle girl. I know she will someday acknowlege that I have learned "grey time" and she will be fearless and free.

Miss Gilbert has a bird's eye view and she is the ultimate back seat driver.

My little pearl wearing gypsy queen has been on the go since October. I have to chuckle at Inara's delightful mind picture of Miss Gilbert and her string of pearls. If I were to envision her on an ancient adventure ship... my guess would be she was the companion of a salty old pirate. Lucky for me she has toned it down and only brings out her colorful vocabulary under duress. However, rumor is my husband is not allowed to have any conference calls from home due to his collegues spreading he word that they believe his wife has Tourette's syndrome. She has traveled to Houston multiple times, Dallas, PA, NY. This is our second week at home and I am slowly getting the cobwebs out of my house. Every visit has been with family. Miss Gilbert and Java are great travelers. I will try to post a photo soon of Gil in her full size cage in the back seat driver position. For not being flighted, this little gypsy has more miles behind her than most used cars. Gil seems to be blossoming and becoming more affectionate all the time. While traveling, she is cage bound because of pets in our host homes. It is counterintuitive to me but she is the exception to the rule of giving as much freedom as possible and an open door cage policy. She enjoys the smaller cage and gets more calm the longer she is confined. She asks over and over for a head scratch now. She prefers to be touched through the bars and will forego her fresh breakfast and even her beloved Nutriberries in favor of a head scratch. I am forever hopeful that she will trust me enough to be able to scratch her head without the cage between us. I got away with sneaking my hand through her open door and scratching her head blissfully without the obstruction of bars in my way. When she caught on, she was really ticked off and it took days before she would forgive me and try again. Upon our return home she has started doing the love dance and "gurging" for me. That is highly unusual for her but she is very perceptive about the relationship with this new grandson. She is motivated to up her game. When she first did her drooped wings in the past week, it was really early in the morning. I seriously thought she had mistaken me for someone else because it was nearly dark in the room. Of course, I took advantage. When I opened her cage she put her foot up and offered to step up from the inside of her cage. That's huge for us. She stepped right out of that cage, was escorted out of her comfort zone and enjoyed a whole house tour. She could not get comfortable enough to stay out more than ten minutes and when I sat down and let her sit on the arm of my chair, she was all about requesting another step up and asked to "go back" to her cage. Now whenever she sees me coming, she clamors to get on the perch for a head scratch. I always open the door, but abide by her requirement to only touch her through the bars. After she is satisfied with her scratch, I offer her to step up. If she is willing, she will turn around and hold up her foot. She is sitting on the back of a high backed, counter height chair next to me as I am typing. She really is opening her world to new experiences and I am thrilled to be so close to her. She is relaxed, no shaking and she is more curious to see what I am doing. I position the chair so she can step onto the table but I keep typing as she comes within six inches of me. If I look at her or speak to her, the spell is broken and she wants to go back to her cage. I will see how long she stays if I just continue to read the forum and keep my hands busy.

Some days you are the top dog and some days you are the hydrant.

Isaac is looking good. Thanks for the update, your household sounds so relaxed and fulfilling right about now. You have come through so much with Isaac to reach this place where you accept him just the way he is and that is unconditional love. I do agree that living with my greys has opened my heart to a different kind of love. It is different than kids and even grandkids. There is something powerful and profound about loving our parrots. Being that it is so hard to explain, it is wonderful that so many of you just "get it". I wouldn't consider Miss Gilbert grateful or appreciative in any of my most creative moments. There is still something extraordinarily rewarding about figuring out what to do to help her learn that we are a team.