ecodweeb

That's so crazy! Talula has random little red feathers sometimes, I wonder if she has the mutation?

I have logistical issues to overcome, but it's something I intend to do. First: video tape. Second: how to digitize it into the computer. Third: share it!

http://www.nsf.gov/news/news_summ.jsp?cntn_id=115484 Iridescence Found in 40-Million-Year-Old Fossil Bird Feather

JillyBeanz wrote: I was just given an oldie but goodie VHS Camcorder, and intended to set it up to record Talula during the day while I'm gone. I was thinking the SAME thing, it would be good to post videos of misbehaving greys as an awareness campaign. All too many people tell me "well the ones on the internet talk up a storm!" and I'm like "well yeah, how old is it? Was it raised from a chick with the same hosuehold? I mean My birds are essentially abandoned children I got from an orphanage, with tongs of baggage." I took Phoenix to NC Pride with me this year, what an attention grabber that was. Lots of older couples asked me about him, and I started with "He, like all Greys, does bite" and someone said "Has he bitten you?" and I held out my hands and showed them the bites from the newest one. They asked why do you keep him on your shoulder? I said we have an understanding. Some people seemed to get it, others didn't. And then there were the Sun Conure/Amazon/Macaw owners who came running over saying "it's so great you include your parrot in your activities like this! We bought ours last year!" Even when I walk the nature trail with phoenix the first thing I tell people is yes, he will bite. He will be more likely to bite if he does not know you and your persistent in trying to touch him. Some people don't listen. But I DO think this is an excellent idea, we can call it "Real African Grey experiences"

I've noticed mine tend to get stand offish (Phoenix won't step up at all, runs away from me) when it rains. Not saying all of them are like that, but I think the weather certainly influences their mood. talula has bitten me the hardest on days when it rains.

This gives me insight on Talula. This could be why she's pulling and chewing on the growth. Looks like I may have to make another visit to the vet....

This makes me want to shout explicitives.

I adopted a cat with feathers. The other one sounds like a microwave.

I've bought mini pumpkins, cut them in half, and give it to them as is. Talula does not like the goo. So I have to scrape the goo and sees out and separate the seeds. Phoenix enjoys tearing the gourd apart, so I just cut it in half and leave it in a dish and come back to pumpkin cubes (he eats the goo).

particle77 wrote: Interesting. I can see the relationship in intelligence and cunning maneuvers!

Your TAG may well be aware of the changes going on, at this stage it is physically obvious something is going on. Jealous may set in, this could be why the TAG is starting to love on your husband a little more so than you -- to try and get you jealous and get you to give even more attention than before. They're manipulative little creatures, they want it their way.

I think greys are the gabby highschool girls with phone bills that come in boxes of the avian world. That's why they talk and mimic.

This is really interesting to me. Talula has an interest in TV and YouTube, I was watching a music video play list and noticed she was not only bobbing to the beat, but intently watching what was going on. I may experiment with her speech training in a similar fashion. I still want to record her saying "Hello?" when the phone rings and put it on youtube.

I'm so very mixed on this list. For the most part they are excuses, some are legit problems, and many could be prevented.

They force you to be a good driver when they're your passenger. They make you realize all the noises you don't notice / block out in your home (Microwave beeps, the turbo spooling on your car) They're good at eating the left over veggies the kids don't want!

Dee, wow, you know I never thought about that. I am always the last to bed, and the last to rise. As such I tend to all the creatures in the house -- turning off aquarium lights, covering cages and feeding all in the AM. That's actually a real ray of sunshine, thank you. I feel better <br><br>Post edited by: ecodweeb, at: 2009/10/26 19:19

Well, that's what I do. I placed a perch by the door because she would generally be sitting on the door chirping when I get home for me to open the door. 9 out of 10 times, she's sitting outside her cage when someone is home. The harnessing and restraining has been par the course for broken feathers, i've just gotten used to accepting that I have to hold (either one) down and I'm going to get bit. I'm just numb to the bleeding, because I realize that it's unavoidable. Not because it happens often, but because it does happen. It's kind of like owning a car and assuming you're never going to have a major problem go wrong. I'm the person who was prepared with that spare filter, belt, etc because I know that it will eventually break. Likewise I think people who never expect to be bitten by a bird (of any kind) have a harsh lesson coming. Moreover, I worry I don't properly convey these thoughts in my posts. I do not come home and grab the bird and leave her on her back for 10 minutes a day, but there are times (like when she jumped and broke her blood feather and it was dripping) where she has to be restrained and well the feather pulled, and then stiptic applied and someone has to hold their finger on the wound to make the bleeding stop. I didn't approve of Butch's restraining her for biting, but that's what happened -- can't change that fact. I figured that's what caused her to pull, what I am unsure of what to do is to properly discourage that behavior. I'd rather she bite the hand that feeds than shred herself apart. I have the feeling in 6 months I'll look back on this laughing, but it's very discouraging. She was doing so well, and one incident has set her back quite a bit. I guess if anything this is a sign of just how untrusting she is (and it didn't help that the one she regurgitated for held her down, I'm sure). I've always been just another flock member to her (by my accounts, she does the happy dancing for Butch), but I spend a lot of time talking to her and I've even taken her (when warm) outside. In the end I suppose the reading of books, talking to her, and outdoor (she loves being outside I've noticed) times with her perched on my hand will eventually form a bond. I'm just underestimating the time, and also the fact that girls are much more apprehensive than the boys to not just humans, but all others they encounter.

I REALLY wish I had that. One of the big problems we had at first was I tend to wear long sleeves shirts and she was trained to step up on a towel covered arm. You can imagine the mixed signals as I walked past the (to me chest height) cage with my arms extended holding my laptop and she's standing here, throws that foot up and just leans over... and falls off the cage. She's clumsy, at the same time, she's trying. She is really developing leg muscles and lately she wants to jump off the sofa and wander the floor (I don't really like letting her wander around the floor, the last owner told me she would jump off her cage and wander the hallway). I also must remind myself it's been 3 months. When I met Phoenix he'd had 5 years of training. Bit of a difference there. I am sure he was just as difficult in the early days, and the winter time doesn't help their mood at all. even phoenix is refusing to step up from his swing in his cage if I ask him to, which is about normal for this time of year (in the summer he always steps up, regardless). Talula has always kind of taken to Butch, which is why I was so surprised that she bite him and refused to step up for him to go to bed. Then bit him AGAIN after being put up! No two are alike, that is the one thing I've learned so far. Our male is an exceptional little loving creature. I recite Dave's rescue poem on a daily basis to try and stay encouraged and remember where she came from. She'd lived for over 6 months with people who hated or feared her, and even the vet said she really wants to trust people but she's been burned so many times in the past that she just can't let herself do it.<br><br>Post edited by: ecodweeb, at: 2009/10/26 16:36

Noted. I figured that's what caused it this time. I don't hold her down on any kind of normal basis, the bad beak clipping, when she's broken a blood feather, and at the vet's for examination are the only times she's been held back. She is not trusting to let you flip her upside down perched on your hand, and she verbally and physically lets you know it. I've already gathered she is far more of a beak as an appendage user than the other grey we have, and that's been ok to adjust to, but sometimes she isn't going to steady herself she wants to bite. She's got quite the chomp to her. I've also stopped trying to pet her between the cage bars, that has only resulted in me bleeding and/or having to change the food/water bowls because of it. I'm really re-learning how to interact with her as none of the things that Phoenix enjoyed/responds to have a positive impact on her.

Talula is going to be the death of me. So apparently, on Thursday, when I wasn't feeling well and went to bed early (around 7pm) my partner said Talula was being very bad and wouldn't step up and tried to jump off the cage. He caught her, and held her on her back for a minute and rubbed her head -- we've become rather well adjusted to grabbing a grey in a head lock. We've also basically become numb to bleeding. So he gets her in the cage and she bites him pretty badly. Next day I notice that she HAD three full grown tail feathers, now there is 1.5. One full feather and half the shredded feather are in the bottom of the cage. I think well OK that's I guess par the course, right? Wrong. So now she only has the baby feathers. She pulled the other one, plus a new wing growth, over the weekend. I even gave her new perches and a little wood ladder to climb, not to mention I bought them baby pumpkins (she LOVES pumpkin seeds) to tear apart. I'd say I'm doing something wrong, but I know I'm not. I don't know what her problem is, likely hormones + molting season. But for the love of Buddha, this bugs me. Part of me thinks when I see her shredding I should call her a bad or ugly girl, but I'm not sure that's going to have a good effect on her. I reward her with pumpkin seeds when she talks, to my knowledge I've not rewarded plucking. I really just need some comfort. It's only three months, I suppose I'm asking a bit much of her still. I had hoped she'd be not naked by Christmas or New Years but that's looking less likely. She's also shredding her other body feathers, just half the feather is there. It's so odd. She's getting bathed and soaked in alo and lots of red palm and nutrients. She's getting love (who else would put up with the scars I have), but I must be missing something. Sigh. Thanks for listening. <br><br>Post edited by: ecodweeb, at: 2009/10/26 14:36

Phoenix has never really been allowed on shoulders until I got him a harness. Now he rides on my shoulder as I make the 2mi hike around the lake in the spring and summer. Talula has far more clumsy and is only allowed on the shoulder (and she feels she has a right to sit up there, mind you) when I'm in the high backed chair. Phoenix has on occasion played with my earring but always stops when I say "Eh, knock it out" and he's always, always stepped up on command from my shoulder. Talula will NOT step up from the shoulder, and it's quite a problem. She has very limited shoulder time because of this. To each their own.

My my dear, I am so very sorry. I read Alex and Me, and I am a big fan of Dr. Pepperberg's work. Alex was, as all greys are, a very special little guy. He validated what we crazy bird people knew all along, and he has shown the world a side of parrots that none will soon forget. I remember it took me three days to read the book because I kept crying, and hugging my babies in the process. I cannot imagine the pain you feel. I know in time it will be easier, but time marches slowly. I pray you find the peace you seek.

I'll hold back on the judgments about Karma and all that (Karma or post points always end up in a war like this on every forum, every where). Google is an amazing thing: http://www.quakerparrots.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t29838.html General thoughts: Wax used for wax paper used to be made from Petroleum, and this is an area of concern for parrots. Allegedly, the black ink of newsprint will prevent bacteria growth (?? Don't know about that, it's soy-water based) Newsprint white paper (end of rolls) can be purchased cheaply from many newspapers (one poster citing $3 for a large roll) Also found: http://www.cage-catchers.com/ Which bills itself as the prefect and safe cage liner. I'd email then and ask what the wax is made of. I'd also contact the maker of your cheap rolls and inquire about the chemicals used to make the wax (doubt it's listed on the box) to ensure it's safe for shredding. Is that more the answer you were seeking?

I'd check the dropping tray and see if the nail is there. I hate to suggest this but they looks as if he/she may have chewed it off. My male chews on his toes but has never chewed a nail off. par the chat conversation; my vote is call the 1-hour away vet and ask if they feel confident in handling this matter. If not call the 3-hr away vet and tell them you are on your way. I'm hesitant to say use peroxide on it, as that might cause it to start bleeding again.

I believe that kind hearts will always win over a troubles parrot. If your heart is in the right place the bird will notice and respond.