ecodweeb

Talula slept in the middle of her small cage due to where we placed her pink perch (Its gritty but I don't quite know what it's made of). When we got the new cage, taking a cue from Phoenix's cage setup, I put the pink perch up high. She sleeps on it every night.

Hi Ellie, I'd say this behaviour is somewhat normal for the first few days. I don't know when Talula started drinking water, but only after we got the new cage (which has been just over a week now) did I notice her drinking from the water dish. I've had her two months on the 8th. Food, she loves, and I"ve not had a hard time getting her to eat. Well, the first week seemed iffy since she changed to a new diet. It takes time. I'd personally suggest not using the glove, as Talula is a great example of what happens post-glove wearing owner. She was taught to step up on a covered arm. Be it a towel or long sleeves. She's fallen off her play top perch twice now while I was wearing long sleeves and putting treats or pine cones in the play top dishes for her. SHe thought I was offering a perch, and blindly tried to step on my passing arm. She also bit me (and drew a lot of blood) while we worked on proper step up to the hand. Since you have a baby bird it would be best to let him get used to a bare hand, and don't react hard to the bites. My first exposure to real bird folk was at a local Bird Society meeting. Someone came up and offered a hand to phoenix and he bit them, somewhat hard I'd say. The older man just laughed it off saying all Greys are the same, and then Phoenix put his head down and let him scratch him, finally he did step up onto the man's offered finger. It isn't pleasant, but the biting does seem to help foster a bond. It will get worse before it gets better. Persistence, keeping a cool head, and always rewarding the good behaviours (talking, chirps, dancing, what have you) with a treat will help to minimize the negative reactions like biting. Good luck! I love the name Elvis, I am from Memphis (the King's home)!

Phoenix is in the same boat. I've come to accept that he'll scream a little bit (but won't bite) and I just have to hold him under the water until soaked, then towel dry. he will let me towel him off, no problem, Talula on the other hand.... She seems to like the water. She'll prance around in it and lift her wings, but she seems to prefer it when I hold her egyptian style (holding the feet) and hold her closer to the fixed shower head and focus on her back (her little elbows of her wings are still exposed). She's less fond of bathing her front -- chest, face, etc... but she'll let me do it only after a good 5-10 min of warm steamy water rolling off her back. She does the eye trance thing while it happens. I think the 3 weeks method might work best, especially since he's flighted. I have the advantage? of neither of mine being able to fly (one was fully plucked when I got her, the other has always been clipped due to agression with full flight). Good luck and keep us posted!

Dr. Irene Pepperbeg's other book, ALex & Me, talked briefly about some tests that were performed before Alex's death where they tried to answer that very question: how do they make the vocalizations? They used some fancy machine and it couldn't tell a difference in Alex's spoken word and a human's, despite Alex using a different method to actually speak the word. Also on the note of using words correctly; I have a talkative female who is still new to the home. For a while she was known for saying some not so nice things at an appropriate time when she was ticked off. Such as "step up" (a foreign concept to her) results in a bite and "b**ch," and for a while there when she saw me she'd just whistle and say "A**h***e" .... fortunately we've moved beyond this stage in our relationship, but we don't use that kind of language in their presence, so it had to have been learned from the previous home(s), the fact that she used it appropriately, however, still stuns me. She's also said "Hello Butch!" when her favorite human, Butch, comes to the cage. She'll just say Hello to everyone else, tho she's been less talkative as of late. I think she's been too busy with her new cage, and she's been gurgling a lot so she must be practicing new vocalizations... hopefully nice things this time!

Oh my god. I had looked at flying with some guinea pigs and refused to let them be stowed as cargo for fear of freezing, I cannot believe that happened to a poor grey... and it's documented!! If I have any influence in the decision, I'd go US Airways. They have always impressed me and they were a (large) supporter of our local pride festival this weekend. Any company that voluntarily supports equal human rights as well as animals in the cabin wins my business. Be sure to write them a letter of thanks upon safe return with your grey, that will keep the birds in cabin thing going with them as it sets them apart from the other airlines. Right now all airlines have a niche they cater to, if US Airways is the animal lovers niche... they'll hang on to it.

HI there, I have a 17 year old male grey who is a rescue. He's been in the extended family some 10 to 11 years now, and this time of year (Sept into Oct) he starts to get moody. I think it's part molting, part sexual arousal due to the mating season (I can't confirm either). Bird folk at work say their males get more aggitated and bite prone towards the winter too. Irene M. Pepperberg, the lady who founded The Alex Foundation and worked to study the intelligence of Grey Parrots write in her memoir of the late Alex that during his fits of sexual-based aggression she used tofu to calm him down a notch. I decided to give this a go. Tofu isn't fungal, it's bean curd -- almost always soy. I got mine for $1.30 at whole foods, and a package lasts a few weeks. I cut it into strips and then halved the strips to cubes and fried them in red palm oil and cayanne pepper. He loves the tofu, first thing he eats in the bowl -- passing up an almond for it. I have to admit I was surpised by this. Now we're just a few weeks into this but I'd say his behavior has changed to be very tolerable. He hasn't drawn any blood yet, tho the cold is just now starting (rather the chill in the air, it's still nice most days, no jacket needed yet). He was so well behaved I took him out to a large festival last weekend, and it was drizzling. Usually if there is a cloud in the sky he won't come out of his cage and certainly won't step up, but not this past weekend! He was very very well behaved. Could be anecdotal, but it's worth a try. It won't hurt his diet, and it might just be beneficial!

The good news is: you were around, alert, and caught this before it became a tragedy. Don't beat yourself up, and thank you for sharing. This is a reminder to check the toys in the cage and ensure they can't harm your grey. Give Nikki a few extra treats for being so good during the ordeal. The hubby too

I always uncover and get Phoenix's dishes first, but since I've been feeding him tufu (soy bean curd, organic, no fungus) sauteed in red palm, his breakfast takes longer. I tend to start warming his tofu in the microwave and then uncover and tend to Talula, by the time I am done the tofu has cooled off and is ready to eat, I plop the cube into the dish, add pellets, and serve. He seems not to mind this so much.

It's an IKEA something or another. It can seat three people, so it's not like a tiny chair I understand what you mean. I think Phoenix will come around eventually, on the bright side he's re-bonding with his real dad ... which is good, he sort of gave up on him after he started attaching to me. Still, only I can harness/unharness him without having blood drawn.

So then it's actually OK to try and let them sit on the same bit of furniture? I've tried to limited that, keeping one on an adjacent chair that the other can't get to. I suppose it's normal for Phoenix to feel "betrayed" since the new comer needs a lot of attention (she is doing so well). Thanks for the insights

As unfortunate as this may sound, we've resorted to calling our 17-year old male the Bratty Bird. He was OK with the new adoptee until recently. It will be two months in the house Oct 8, and while I realize this is still in the "new phase" a lot of change occurred: - Talula was moved from upstairs to downstairs - Talula was given a new cage with a playtop - Talula is given daily baths We've tried hard not to 'ignore' Phoenix, infact my interaction times have increased with him a lot. The problem occurs if I even think about having them both out at the same time. If I have Talula on a perch near the TV and get phoenix from his cage (same room) and move to the sofa (4.5ft from Talula) and put him down on the back, he was sit there and state at Talula and make an angry chirp. He will then put his head down if I ask him to step up and is generally acting like a defiant 17-year old child would. Please someone tell me this will pass in a few months! The one time the two of them were accidentally left on the same bit of furniture, he climed up to talula and tried to spar with her! Being a good little girl she backed down and ran away (later nipping at his tail when she got the chance). I'm actually paranoid to hold them at the same time, if he gets within striking range he will try. I realize this is full blown jealously, but he's not fully revolted against me: I can flip him on his back, give kisses and play with his feet. He has become more social/loving/accepting of his actual owner (my partner, whom he basically abandoned when he met me) and to my neighbor and our roommate, which to me is a positive change. But I also see it as being the attention whore: he just wants to steal time away from Talula. Now Talula seems to be indifferent. She does not care about Phoenix that much, she hardly seems to notice him. She does mimic him, she's the talker of the two. I'd love to hear you stories about late adoptions. Phoenix has been an only bird for his whole life, Talula has lived with at least a Cockatoo in her past. She is used to the whole multibird home concept. My worst fear is this behavior will worsen and he will start to strike at humans. He did try to bite me the other day when I asked him to step up from his swing, but then he quickly recanted that action with a sunken head and an offered foot.

I just joined the LegBandNumbers group on Yahoo! (pending membership activation) and am hoping they can help me track down my little Talula's breeder.

I would separate them as it sounds like the female is targeting the male because he is weak. If they can share a perch while out of the cage during playtime, that's a good thing, but I wouldn't advise keeping them in the same cage.

this is frightening on so many levels.

In the end, I did like it. I read the book the day I got it. I am not overly fond of the author's style, but it takes place in the 1940s (1944 I recall). The boy was 9, and mute. He was the son of a Jewish doctor from Germany, the bird was known to sing songs in German and recite lots of numbers in German. The book centers around the kidnapping of the bird and the retired Sherlok-like character's personal mission to find him. What I found interesting was that the detective was not out for "National Security" --this did happen in the latter year of the war, and more than a few mentioned that the bird's numbers could be cipher code-- he wanted to reunite an orphan child with his only friend. This novel is written for younger kids, I'd say in 6-9th grade reading level. Not sure I'd recommend it, unless you really like British novels (it was written using a lot of British terms the required looking up, for me at least). The chapter written in the bird's voice wasn't really long, nor did the bird really speak. The narrator merely explained the thoughts of this poor bird, being held captive, and their narration of the bird's thoughts were quite good. I will say they penned the typical male grey to the key, from how they annoy to the times at which they annoy and the frequency to which they annoy people. 6/10 stars.

$.65 on Amazon, 3.99 to ship. Can't wait to read it!

Thank you all for the support. I got a mid-day report that she's chipper as a clam at the house, so I think the worst is over. Tomorrow I'll let her take a bath and get the grime off her. The photo really does paint the picture better than any horror story can describe.

I fully admit that I did this wrong, and I am honestly nervous about working with her again. I may never try to work with her beak again, but I will continue to work with Phoenix's as we've never had a mishap. So, yes, please think twice and realize that you may not be able to do the job. That's OK if that is the case.

To answer the questions: I have always had to dremel Phoenix's beak because it is crooked (we don't know why it is). Jackie, the former vet tech who rescued him, used a dremel to work with his beak. The vet that he's been to uses clippers (which is why I thought this would be OK), and I never felt for the $26 they did a worthwhile job, and he'd have to go there twice a month. $30 for a battery powered dremel and new stones ($5/ea) every few months has been a better investment. He LOVES the dremel, and will open up for me to work on his beak. Lulu's beak had an entire layer on the upper mandible that was flaking off (I should have taken photos of this), and despite having new perches that she can rub on... she's never had these before and so it started with dremeling the outside of the upper, whichs she liked and cooed out, and then we decided to try and work on the edges -- mostly the tip. She likes to get the cuticals of your fingers with the tip of her beak, it invokes an excruciating pain. And she does this when we ask her to step up and she refuses (remember this bird as absolutely no formal training and she's already 10 years old). I decided after fighting with her for 20 minutes to just clip it, I was not happy with the choice but I felt it would be OK. Well, I was wrong, and I won't make that mistake again. If I can't use the dremel I'll deal with the lost flesh, or take her to Jackie (when I can get ahold of her -- owning two pet stores takes a lot of time). I'm still shook up, she was very nonchelant about the ordeal. In the jeep she wanted to sit on my shoulder and kept saying "hello" and "its ok" ... which was a comfort to me. I've been told it looks like I was stabbed in the photo, and that's why I was so scared. This wasn't a gushing, it was just a good drip. That is what is so alamring / why I felt this should be posted. If you've ever thought about beak clipping, and you're not sure, this hopefully will make you think twice. The reason I am not fearful of the dremel is as it grinds it cauterizes, I've not seen a bird bleed that was dremeled ... but it takes longer (and if she bites down on the bit she can stop it -- Phoenix cannot). On the bright side to all this she's gained 12 grams of weight or so since we got her two weeks ago; and she has more feather growth on the back and wings and tail (thanks to the showering article, she's aking daily showers -- loves them -- and this is very much affecting the feather growth for the better). So, I understand if what I did was "wrong" and trust me I will never use nail clippers again, not even on the nails, I will stick to the dremel and it's slow but safe process of grinding and cauterizing. I also felt this was a LOT of blood loss, but they assured me birds do better with blodd loss than mamals do; despite their blood not clotting. I don't know if they were just trying to make me feel better or what, but the shirt didn't start to harden in the blood spot until after we got home -- a full two hours after the first drop or longer -- which is quite scary in and of itself. They told me they pull a little more blood for "full" blood work than what she'd dripped out on me and the towel ... they said it really was OK but I did the right things at the right times and that is what saved her. I hate posting this as I believe everyone should feel confident enough to try and groom their companions, but, this is the real life result of if you do it wrong.<br><br>Post edited by: kcfoxie, at: 2009/08/24 16:33

I had the ultimate scare, but thanks to staying calm (that is, I did not breaking down/crying until after we got to the vet) and quick action on my part Lulu is OK. I still feel very much horrible this even happened. It was Sunday night, my partner's mother and sister were enroute to pick him up and take him to a surprise birthday dinner - I was in on this. Lulu had been somewhat good today, she stepped up, had a bath, and we were using the dremel on her upper mandable to get the thick flaking hull off her beak (because she'd not had any scratching perches before she came to us). Well we got that done and Butch got bit in the process and suggested we try and trim the edges of her beak. Well, this was business as usual to me, we got the sides but the tip of the upper mandible she was fussy about, I didn't realize at the time she might be too close to puncturing a blood line. So I used my normal clippers, got the tip off and before I could use the dreme... blood. Just a drop or two, she wasn't screaming so I figured flour (like I've used on a broken blood feather or a toe nail with phoenix) would be OK. That didn't stop it. Butch started to panic, and I had to yell that panicking was NOT going to help, to call Avian and Exotic; who was closed but left the number on their vmail to the After Hours Animal Care not far from us, I called them and got directions. Off we went. From the time we left and drove the about 7-8 miles to the vet, we lost this much blood: To say I was scared I was going to have her die enroute puts it mildly. I don't know how I kept myself. The vet actually said I was distraught but very well behaved during the event -- they thanked me for not "flipping out" on them like so many others do. A mere $112 later, they cauterized the upper mandible's bleeding spot, and she was on her way home. The whole way to the vet she kept trying to get on my shoulder, and she kept cloth in her mouth putting pressure on the wound (these birds are super smart), and i kept talking calmly to her and she never fought/got elevated heartbeat. This is probably why the blood loss was not as bad. Now some questions: 1) the vet said birds handle blood loss better than other animals, I didn't think this was true. Is it? 2) My roomie was a vet tech and said a grey can bleed out in 15 minutes from a broken blood feather, this is what prompted my fast reaction to this situation, from the photo -- did she lose too much blood? 3) Am I a bad parent? I am one of those semi-perfectionists who beats themself up over things like this, and I'm still doing it today. Thanks, KC<br><br>Post edited by: kcfoxie, at: 2009/08/24 14:34

My 17 year old is very comatose. If you let him out of his cage he'll just sit on his door, and if you take him to the sofa he finds himself a spot, hikes a leg, and sits fluffed up all content like. The 10 year old female, on the other hand, can't sit still. Part raising, part personality. Female is a jumper, will jump off any perch and wander. Male is not one to wander, likes staying put preferably in the highest spot he can find.

Are you flying back with Omar or is he being flown out on his own?

I've also found that my CAGs seem to love a small box filled with tissue/news paper to destroy. Might be a cheap alternative; try to use newsprint that is recycled paper (less acids) and soy-ink (many are).

I used to have... All the keys on my laptop No lacerations on my hands loving cats (not jealous little balls of fur) sanity a fatter wallet

I fully support your decision to give a retired pair of greys the best home one can, and I think you've kept your head straight in regards to know they won't really be 'pets' in the classic definition. But then, neither are fish