birdhouse

My TAG Phenix was a wild caught & no youngster when I got him 20 yrs ago. He was totally unhandlable & to complicate things, sick. All of which to say he got toweled a lot out of necessity. It was also the popular opinion at the time that toweling a bird would help calm them & tame them. Now, I think that's one of my bigger regrets. Given what I've learned, I feel like it hurt more than it helped because it forces a fid to be helpless. Greys in particular do not do that well at all. I've come to feel like Phenix knew he was "beaten" & submitted in the moment. But it did nothing to help his trust issues. In the long run, I think he just feared me even more. Phenix was my only grey & first "big" parrot. But I've since rehab'd a few other birds w/major aggression issues. I really believe that they need to come to us by choice rather than force. Force is just never a good thing w/a rehab/rehomed fid. They need to feel empowered before they're able to trust their new flock. I also believe that a very large percent of aggression is fear based. Even done correctly (& many people don't realize there's a right & wrong way) toweling can be scary for many birds, at least to some degree. So it's something I've avoided ever since, unless there was an actual necessity for it.

Hey Natash! Welcome to GF. I saw your post in the Parrot Bite Me thread first because I'm subscibed. So that's where I put my 2 cents. Hope it helps. So I'll just say I hope we'll hear a lot more from you & Sadiee... good stuff... not so good stuff... pics... stories... whining... bragging...vids... whatever! :cool:

I really wanted to say how well I think you've done so far. A lot of people would have given up or become too angry or afraid of Sadiee to be able to continue to work w/her. Yay for you!! Sadiee doesn't hate you in spite of everything. If she did, she'd NEVER let you handle her & she wouldn't be communicating w/you the way she does. So just let that go. Unfortunately, you may never be able to know what exactly is motivating Sadiee's reactions to you. She's old enough to have been thru a lot of experiences that have taught her to be the way she is. She may need you to blindly work thru some trauma(s) w/her before she'll trust you enough to build any real bond. That can be a long, bumpy road. But the good news is that when you've worked so hard for it, every little tiny bit of progress becomes a huge high. Celebrate the baby steps & the giants steps will happen in time. The first step may be to really try to read up & learn everything you can about body language. The more you can read Sadiee, the better you can become at avoiding unnecessary aggression. My other suggestion is to try to learn whatever you can about aggression. I don't know if you've read this book: "The Parrot Problem Solver" by Barbara Heidenreich? Many people find it helpful because it deals w/all types of birds & many types of situations. I've seen it in various stores & you can also find it online at places like Amazon http://www.amazon.com/Parrot-Problem-Solver-Barbara-Heidenreich/dp/0793805627 Armed w/all this new insight, you can re-start the process w/a fresh perspective. Perspective is usually the magic key whenever we get stuck on a problem w/our fids. Then as you go along you can start your own thread(s) to post questions, pitfalls & milestones in "real time". Chances are very good that other members have had similar episodes that might be very helpful. And if nothing else, it's just greyt to be able to share w/people who really get it!!

^^I 'd just read Ray's 'cuckoo bird' thread. Which may be why that sprung to mind. All I could think was "This is one of those places where people would swear we were all crazy ...or members of the Addams family!" lol But I had to edit my post when I read it in yours. My fingers weren't apparently listening to what I was thinking (it happens ). Lots of times it's sexual. More rarely I think it's something emotional. I don't think it means anything bad if a fid never does it. For me, it's just special if they do.

Seems pretty common for a grey to start talking understandable Human around a year old. So Marly's vocabulary is actually very good by that standard. At any age, they tend to get fascinated by particular words/phrases/sounds & use them over & over for a while. Then maybe they'll never say them again. Many don't start to speak for quite some time after they get to their new homes either. While they're still uncomfortable w/their new surroundings, they tend not to say too much; human or otherwise. Sometimes it can take months for them to start to show off their full vocabulary. So again, sounds like Marley's doing just find since you've said (s)he's a new arrival. Once (s)he's ready, (s)he should just start to pick up lots of new things. Then you're in for some real surprises! That's incredibly fun & super rewarding. That's when you know they've finally, really started to think of their new place as home.

This is one of those things that really separates a true bird lover (or friend of one) from the flock. "Aww, isn't that sweet...!?! He threw up on you!!" is just not something that's ever going to pass most people's lips & I'm pretty sure they would say they're grateful. But when it is a true act of devotion how can I help but appreciate the gesture?* *Especially when some of my guys are so tough where it comes to getting them to share any emotion ...unless of course they're PO'd. lol

Ditto to all of the above! Proud to be a card carrying, poop spattered Wingnut for life.

Yeah, the kitchen has always scared me a little w/all my fids being flighted. Have to admit over time they got pretty good about staying out unless I actually carry them in though. That said, I learned a long time ago things can always change in a heartbeat. So I have a push rod w/a sheer in the door way. I just drop it whenever I need & leave it tied to one side otherwise. I really don't even notice it's there anymore. But I've never had such big birds to out smart either. I don't know if something like this would be more trouble than it's worth. I've seen slight variations of them around. It might be a heavier duty alternative to my little safety precaution though. http://ep-www.walmart.com.cdngc.net/ip/As-Seen-on-TV-Magic-Mesh/20850476 http://www.homedepot.com/buy/rapid-up-36-in-x-80-in-black-right-left-hand-removable-screen-door-discontinued-70503012.html#.UOh3aneQgcY

I remember when you first got Timmy. Is it really that long ago...? Wow So very greyt to see how well things have gone & hear how happy you are! Thanks for the update. Looking forward to many more.

Just saw that you're from CN. Guess the US link won't do much good. My bad for not paying attention. Sorry! I did a little search & found a site that might be more helpful. If you haven't found it already: http://www.aacc.ca/apf.htm

Sadly, the US Wild Bird Conservation Act wasn't passed until 1992. This means that many legally imported greys could (should) still be alive & hopefully well for a long time yet. Phenix is one of them. Unfortunately, he's also one of so many who has no past (documented or otherwise). But he would likely have been brought thru quarantine & banded sometime in the 1970-80's BC (before computers lol). http://www.aphis.usda.gov/import_export/animals/bird_leg_band.shtml Thing about this info is that it really only confirms that they were imported vs rebanded. You may or may not be able to track down when. No way to know the age of a wild caught at the time. Still no way to know about a rebanded bird w/no paper trail, either. It just seems wrong. But it's nearly impossible to get any useful info off that thing. Sarasota's the only one I've heard who had much luck. You might try PMing her. I wish you luck! But greys really do love to keep their parronts guessing. So in the end, this may just one of the many mysteries you'll eventually discover about Liesel. ...what Dave said!

^^^ She really is a little diva, isn't she? But it's such a joy to see such a beautiful, well adjusted grey. I never get tired of seeing her in action. Judy, Phenix drops his wings like that when he's a little overwhelmed. Like in that case, his posture would be saying that he still wanted to play, but wasn't necessarily crazy about being "trapped" under the newspaper. Not that Phenix would ever "rough house" like that. He would have come out from under that paper primed for bear & it wouldn't have ended up w/a nice beak rub either. Like I said, so nice to watch such a happy, well adjusted grey. Sigh!

Bet someone w/a fid started the saying, "Never say "never"." Even bigger than Gracie finally being willing to make physical contact, she wanted to find you. She could have just found a hidey hole instead. That's a very awesome leap in your relationship. Big WoooWhooo!! There's no reason she shouldn't continue to fly to you ...if she has a good reason & if she doesn't think you want it so much that it will be fun to torture you by hanging back. (bribery, bribery, bribery!) Might suggest you anticipate the ear nibbling & just avoid it by limiting each session on your shoulder for the moment. By removing her before the temptation gets too much, you eliminate the need for negative interaction, especially while this is all new & a little fragile. You also leave her wanting more which could be a little extra encouragement since she hasn't really been the cuddly type. Time enough to polish Gracie's manners once you're pretty certain she really is comfortable coming to you.

A healthy bird's droppings should be made of 3 parts **OFTEN** GREEN COLORED "TUBES" Usually the greatest percent of the pile is solid waste. Number 2. lol What we usually think of as "poop" by whatever name. It can radically change in amount, consistence & color depending on the frequency of droppings & food or water intake. It is not at all uncommon for this part to change color when a bird is eating things like a pelleted diet which contain a bunch of dyes, for example. MOSTLY CLEAR LIQUID Birds don't take a pee. Birds get rid of urine in their droppings. Water content is part of any bird poop. How much comes out varies greatly w/how much goes in & how recently. WHITE(ISH) "PASTE" This is uric acid which is a very necessary part of how a healthy kidney dumps the waste it processes. This combined w/the clear liquid equals a bird's pee. If bird droppings lack a semi-well defined bit of a white(ish) smear over too long a period of time, it could possibly indicate kidney problems.

Too bad. But unfortunately that seems to be gene encoded on many greys. You may be about to embark on a whole self-awareness trip. Phenix' maybe 3rd word was "What". Right out of the box, he used it anywhere it was appropriate. Tonal inflections & all. Sometimes he even used the body language; cocking his head or glaring over one shoulder. I couldn't help but encourage it because it kind of blew me away. He caught me so off guard so many times. But I think it was after the episode where he had his vet in tears laughing that it became a permanent part of his repertoire. I never thought I said it enough for him to pick it up the way he did. And I really don't use it all that often. It was just something that caught his attention. Once he found out it got everyone else's attention, he just ran w/it. It was one of the first things to really teach me how closely they observe everything & how incredible it is to see how they process it.

lol Janet! Pepper is a handsome guy & Ana Grey is after all, a grey. So she probably wants it all. That little thing does seem like an awesome idea, though. Thanks for the post Jeff.

Some viruses which are transmitted via blood to blood & saliva to blood can be passed between species such as West Nile & Rabies viruses. Bird flu H5N1 is a flu mutation that has recently become an inter-species threat. Given the known rate of flu mutation, more are likely to develop. It is generally accepted that birds won't catch your cold. But there are different bacteria, etc in our saliva that isn't good for them. Since I'm just drippy when I have a cold, I try to stay clear so as not to pass anything on. Then, when one of my guys start sneezing & coughing, I'm sure it's just communication, not contamination.

I think Shanlung may be helpful. This is one of his threads. Click on his member name. There will be a drop down option to Private Message him. Last I remember, he said something about the internet being funky at his current posting. So don't get discouraged if you don't hear back right away. But I think he'll be happy to help. http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?190007-Tinkerbell-Mash-Best-food-by-far-for-your-Grey

Always such a pleasure. Thanks Question - what are the purple fruits(?) in the pic above the trays of strawberries?

Too bad things didn't go according to plan. Nice try, though! Happy St. Nicolas Day to you, too!

Or Santa's elves? Either way wouldn't it be nice if a few more things came w/that label?

Darwin actually looks like he's doing incredibly, especially considering how new all this is! So please remember that when I say that he looks scared & excited in the vid. By rights he should be way more at this point. Right now, he's willing to work w/you (huge bonus!). The drooped wings & dropped head are body language that shows he's being submissive for the moment. He's not actually ready to have his head scritched apparently. So might be better to ask to rub his beak &/or toes, always accepting "No" for an answer. You can give him a minute & ask again once or twice. But he'll need to feel like he has control to be able to learn to trust his new flock members. The tasting thing is part of the process too. Greys need to mouth you to help judge you. Such a very good job with that btw! So many people don't distinguish between biting, nipping, mouthing etc which all have very different intentions & so, should get very different reactions. As incredibly well as Darwin is adjusting, things may still change radically, though. This is the honeymoon period & he's being a pretty wonderful. But he could stop any or all the good stuff & start bad stuff any time over the next few weeks or even days. So try not to be upset or even surprised if he starts to actually bite & hard enough to draw blood for example. You seem so at ease w/him which is awesome. It's such an important part of building a solid relationship. So you don't want to change that. Maybe just take precautions like safeguarding your face & child until you actually get to know the "real" Darwin. But everything so far certainly suggests this fid is going to turn out to be a certifiable sweetheart. Couldn't be happier for all of you!!

A few weeks is no time w/the healthy diet conversion. So just keep trying different things different ways. Like you might keep trying other types of nuts such as Brazil Nuts which are high in calcium. Just please be careful about peanuts because they can tend to mold in the shell. Then there are Palm Nuts which are a combination fruit & nut & a key part of Greys diet in the wild. Also great foraging for caged birds. http://www.mysafebirdstore.com/FOOD_TREATS-PALM_NUTS.html Sesame seeds are another calcium source. I get them at the grocery store. My guys like them sprinkled over their fresh food sometimes. Broccolli is high in calcium. So are other green leafies like Collard Greens, Swiss Chard, Kale & Spinach. They're also high in iron, though. So it's a good idea to be careful how you feed w/pellets which should ideally have a balanced amount of both calcium & iron, aready. Too much of either can cause problems too. Oranges are also a good source of calcium. Extra bonus if your guy likes them because then you can put juice on other foods to help make them more yummy. And RaggaMuffin is very right about mash. Bite size bits often reduces waste, which is very nice. But it also hides all kinds of foods a fid doesn't necessarily think he wants to eat. It's a greyt way to sneak or introduce new foods into a fid's diet. This is an interesting discussion on mash/chop. It might also give you some ideas about different types of food that might expand your grey's diet. http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?194243-Mash-amp-Chop&p=241139

It should all work out as so long as you keep your sense of humor while Gracie is developing her's. Biting is a no-no. But this sounds more like a bad prank. So take it for how it was meant & maybe you can deal w/her like you would w/a little kid in the same situation? Just expect it to take some repetition before she gets what jokes are funny. I find pouting & sulking work really well in these types of situations. Even Phenix tries to make up after he's laid an egg!

Happy Hatchday Corky! Hope it was fun!