birdhouse

I would tell you aloe is good for fids in any pure form. Very good. BUT there are things in it that can potentially cause problems, especially for some fids. So it's on the list of things to watch when feeding &/or limit, a/or just feed the middle w/o the offensive slimy layer just under the skin. That's really the only dubious part. JMHO btw glad you started a new thread. Can't seem to find a thing that's archived on this forum & we've had some very good discussions. So I think it will be good to have this discussion again. This might be a good link. Land of Vos is one of the sites where I've found a lot of pro-Aloe articles. http://www.landofvos.com/articles/wingtips/aloe.html

Asparagus contains asparagine amino acid which is a diuretic & can cause watery poops from excessive urination. And yes, that was a bad example because it's one of the many foods on the debatable list w/things like Aloe Vera & I should add a disclaimer. My bad!! I'm sorry it didn't occur to me before you said something. Like I said, they don't get it too often. But they do get it kind of frequently for short intervals or a very little every day in the spring mash. They've never had any problem, even after the internet told me there might be one. And there are good things to feeding it. Sooo, I continue to give it to them & just watch to make sure nothing changes.

I've actually never bothered to cook it. I almost always feed veggies & fruits raw. But since I've been reading about the benefits of steaming carrots, etc, I've been meaning to see about pumpkin. I also forgot to mention I like to try to time it so I can put up a batch of mash that weekend, too. Pumpkin's one of the things that they don't get all the time, like asparagus which I can only afford in the spring. I get the best part. They only get the butt ends. But it all helps to keep them from getting bored of the same old same old.

Soo, are you sayin I'm scary, Dee???

That is a shame. I really don't think I could have resisted, either. As much as I couldn't resist the crack about the net, have to admit I'm no less crazy than everyone else. Maybe even a little more. I do live w/Phenix after all.

We LOVE Halloween!! One of the best parts is the giant jack-o-lanterns! I wash pumpkins as best I can w/water & a veggie brush. Then soak them w/vinegar, leave them drip for a few minutes, then scrub them w/a scrunge & rinse again. Then I let the birds loose to help! I just pile up the guts & pieces while I work & let them go crazy. Great, great fun! Great big mess! But I made a pretty good mess carving pumpkins before they ever showed up. So I can't exactly blame it all on them. When we're done, I wash the left over pumpkin seeds, dry & refrigerate a couple of days worth to feed fresh. The rest get baked & put into air tight containers. Sometimes I mix them into things. Sometimes I feed them alone; plain or sprinkled w/something. My guys like them sprinkled w/cayenne pepper the best. And then lol I wash & chop some of the left over wall & put it up in small containers to freeze for them for whenever. :cool: Yep, we think pumpkins are pret-ty cool around here. :cool:

I've never used anything but water &/or aloe. I don't know much about semi naked Macaw bathing & was wondering about the Dawn, too? Since I'm guessing you guys did some homework somewhere maybe you can save me the research. They aren't obliged to list all ingredients & since Johnson & Johnson's Baby Shampoo got outed last year, I'd be even more cautious. I know Dawn has been used to clean wildlife after oil spills & it's got some powerful chemistry going on. So even though I'm sure it's very very diluted, I was wondering what the benefits are vs some fully organic baby wash or shampoo? Or why the need for any kind of soap? Also I bumped into this link. I keep meaning to ask if you've added a dust bath to that parrot paradise you've got going in the backyard? I think Oliver never gets wet because of his natural oils. Dust baths work & harmlessly because they only absorb some of it. So they get clean vs squeaky clean. So I thought it might be worth mentioning, if they don't already have one. http://www.ehow.com/how_2046224_make-bird-dust-bath.html

All due respect to Jay, but what are the chances that Whitney isn't going to head straight for the highest point on instinct? Then she's got problems trying to get down to the low perching vs being able to climb freely thru her cage whatever it's size. Sundance officially became ancient when he got to where even he knew he couldn't get around the huge cage that he'd been in for half of forever. But they are nothing if not determined little beasties. Then he started falling off his perch in his sleep, too. Pretty scary for everyone. I had to admit what was happening. But I really didn't have the heart to downsize him into a strange cage, especially at that point. So I tried setting him up in his very own tree top roost & we all lived happily ever after. Kura had big balance issues for completely different reasons. Part of it was blood chemistry. Part because she'd never had any cage or perch space to grow & develop. So you know as soon as she found herself in a bigger cage, she was all over it. And she just fell down over & over. I tried the same layout in her cage as Sundance's. She eventually learned where to put that big old ekkie body & got strong enough to look, well, as coordinated as an ekkie can. yeah, they're a little clumsy They both got the chance to have lots of options to keep them moving, get exercise, find interesting things that of course they couldn't see from that other spot 6" away. lol I set the lowest perches barely higher than their head, where it was safe. But it left enough wide open space on the floor of the cage for them to do flight exercises somewhere they couldn't fall down (& Whitney does need whatever wing strength she can develop to help her balance). I think handicapped critters instinctively want to do the same thing as any other critter but they're even more determined. That seems natural to me because they wouldn't survive in the wild if they didn't push harder to make up for whatever they lack. So that's why my instinct is to accommodate them wherever possible instead of creating more conflict by treating them like invalids if there's a choice. But again, that's what's worked for me & why (...I think :confused: ). It will be interesting to see what works best for Whitney as she progresses.

Best thing for a bird w/balance problems is to make it as easy as possible for them to use their beak to get around. Boings, ladders, small spaced cargo nets are all helpful for this. Also if you read up on safe wood & sanitizing it, you can go cut branches w/lots & lots of ends. Don't have to worry about stripping them or anything because Whitney will like to strip the foliage & bark. Just so long as you don't mind picking up! lol Normally, the best design for a cage is to allow for play space & wing room. W/this type of special needs bird, the less open space the better. Anchor branches in all directions, on all sides of the cage, all the way to the top. I mean a really, really lot. By the time you think it's too much, it will probably be just right. The more natural branches the more choices of foot holds & places to grab. Once she starts to get around, she'll build strength & gain confidence & eventually stop falling as often. BUT you'll probably have a period where she thinks she can do more than she really can. So you'll need to be watching her even more closely until she works it out. For cushioning around the floor you might hit the end of season clearances & look for some beach floats/air mattresses. WASH & AIR THEM OUT because of the fumes, though. Otherwise, they'd be good padding & you'd be able to wipe them off, too, Also, I use the large size memory foam kitchen floor mats for the mess around my cages. I can dump the dry mess & tuck them back under the cage when the fids aren't out. They have a vinyl side so I can wipe off the wet mess & I can get them to go w/the decor, too. :rolleyes: I find them on sale all the time. I think the first ones cost $1.68 @ Target on clearance. I splurged on the last ones because they were extra big. I spend $4.99. You might double/triple stack them around to help w/the padding. They'd be easy to cut & piece so they should do well on the bottom of the cage. Extra large dish dry mats, too. Might still put something over them though. I think they'd be great fun to pick apart & maybe not the best to let Whitney eat. I'm also thinking you could start a new thread w/pics? Chronicle Whitney's progress, get feedback as you go, show off your innovations. It could be very helpful to others who are looking to accommodate a special needs fid, too. What do you think?

Naww, you're all only a little disturbed. Although anyone seen w/feathers & fid feet may want to realize the remote possibility of having a net dropped over them. ...just trying to be helpful! :rolleyes:

With everyone coming & going this summer, why wouldn't Gilbert be reminded that he could lose another special human & want to distance himself beforehand? I really think things will improve when the dust settles & he sees you're still standing there. You guys will work your way out of Gilbert's current whatever. We'll all do the happy dance with you. Of course then he'll move on to his next whatever. Uhmm, best just forget I mentioned that.

It most likely always will be a roller coaster ride. But there's no doubt that you have accomplished some amazing things! In spite of it all, you're definitely gaining ground! More than earned that happy break w/your favorite beverage. There's one other time that gives me that same warm, fuzzy feeling. Usually late afternoon or early evening, everyone just stops to take a break. They suddenly go still & the only sound is everyone grinding their beaks. I get such a kick out of how they each sound so different & how they make the sweetest music all together. That's another time when it's so obvious that they're just plain happy & I love it!

AriIsaMis, please believe that whatever else, none of us would choose to be where you are right now. I think everyone feels for the position you're in. I think everyone means to try to give their help & support, even if they can't find the most comforting way to put it. The only way they can really do that is to try to figure out what they'd do. But they don't know all the circumstances so they're going to come to their conclusions based on their own lives. That also doesn't mean they'd actually decide what they think they would if push came to shove. There's got to be a lot of emotion involved & it's no easy decision even if there wasn't. Please try not to let any badly worded posts make you feel defensive. Focus on what's important so you can get this resolved & feel as good as possible afterwards. I'd like to suggest that you decide if under any circumstances you feel you would want to keep Whitney. Just & only what your heart says. If it says no, then it might be best for all if she goes back. No one has the right to judge that decision. Keeping any grey is a very hopefully long term commitment & it has to start w/the heart. If your heart says yes, there are still plenty of ways to work w/what you've got. You shouldn't have to be out of pocket any more cage money than you've already spent. The big cage can be sold on Craig's List & very possibly make more than enough to pay for a more appropriate cage & w/money left over. You can get the next cage used, too. I know first hand there are plenty of cages out there that aren't more than a few months old & so, good as new. There are other vets who will no doubt have other opinions. Trust me on that because I speak from experience. There are people on this & other forums who have worked w/handicapped birds. Their experience & suggestions could improve things considerably for you. You might want to hear from them before you do anything. I wouldn't leave it be w/the breeder, either. Just because they've offered an exchange of birds doesn't mean you don't have the right to make a counter proposal. Especially under the circumstances. If you push a little you may find you're in a better position to make demands than you think. When the vet told you what was wrong, everything may have seemed like it was crashing down. But you do have some time & some options, if you're willing to explore them. In a lot of circumstances, handicapped pets can be even more rewarding companions. However this started out, it really can still end up being a blessing in disguise. But only if it feels right & you can make it work in your household. I'm very sorry it all happened this way & I hope you find a solution that works for everyone.

Absolutely in love w/the idea that parronts can have Nanny cams beam to them wherever they are now. It would be nice if they could actually do something if you needed, though. Very glad to hear Neytiri seems to be acting normal, again. I certainly didn't want to worry you, especially if she just thought that would be a fun thing to do for the moment. But what I posted earlier still applies. So you might keep an eye out that she's not spending too much time being still at the bottom of the cage. And don't worry about being a nervous Mommy. You'll figure out a happy medium soon enough. Meanwhile, it just shows how much you love your fid!

I wonder if I want to know if this was a communication gap or a generation gap. lol Since I didn't grow up in the information age, I actually meant isolated from any useful knowledge short of the very rare & often less than informative library book. But the physical type certainly applies, too. Phenix prides himself on scaring people off & he does it quite well! My family is the reason I can't walk walk away from any critter that needs help. It's hereditary. So they weren't about to let a little thing like a snarky bird bother them. My friends, though..?. Uhhmm, let's say I started getting more invitations to their house. I do know the risks of taking my guys on play dates. But I don't have 2 of any kind. Phenix won't socialize w/birds any better than people & doesn't do well in the car. But I see a big benefit from letting the others spend time w/their own kind whenever possible. Not just as a concept. They act happier, for want of a simple way to put it. I know it's no guarantee. But I know these people are as obsessive as I am. So it seems to work for now. If I ever win the lottery, though, I'm with you. Maybe literally because I'm going to need to be off to warmer climes before I can even start on that tropical paradise/free range haven that I've had floating in my head forever! Phenix goes Hollywood ...there's a concept!

Sassy, birds don't like to be flat footed. They don't spend time down low unless they have a reason. They don't sleep down low, either. I don't want to alarm you, but this isn't normal sounding behavior to me & I'm kind of thinking you might want to call the vet before they close.

It doesn't have to be one or the other, unfortunately. And yes, it's even harder for a parront when their previously sweet fid turns like that. Best to try not to take it personally & just remember that you've got a pretty decent support group here if you need help.

From the pic it looks like they're off to a decent start, though. If you just give them time & referee, I think this could end quite well. My dogs have had some amazing relationships w/my birds & it's greyt fun to watch.

The only thing I really regret is that we were so isolated for so long. Even to this day, I've known 2 people who owned a grey & very few who kept big parrots. None of them were people who I could share w/on an ongoing basis. Sometimes I do sit back & think which things might have worked out better if there had been anything like a Grey Forums way back when. He'd been thru too much & I think Phenix was just too old when he was taken to have happily adapted to any captivity short of aviary life, maybe. But I couldn't even find him a sanctuary at that point. Breeders didn't want him because he'd been misdiagnosed w/"failure to thrive" & written off. Odds were he'd already found (& lost) his life's mate back w/his flock, anyway. I'd have given a great deal to have had the perspective & feedback from other owners w/wild greys. I can't even begin to imagine what a difference that would have made! Even to have had a comparison for "normal" domestically raised behavior might have helped w/so many obstacles. Dee, in some ways your first year w/Gilbert has seen so much more progress than I got from Phenix even after many years. And some that I guess I never will because he seriously does not like people. I think I'm very lucky that I could accept Phenix on his terms before I got tossed in w/the rest. But he did eventually get to where he's much more "normal" than not. In spite of some crumby odds he seems relatively happy, for the most part. Head spinning moments like this may be rare. But there aren't too many days that go by w/o another reason to feel privileged that Phenix let me in, no matter what the terms. He's given me more than enough back to make living decades w/a prickly parrot worth while & then some.

What Dee said, only I would have just pulled out your hair instead of scratched your eyes out. Thinking it thru like a fid, I would have wanted you to be able to continue to serve me after you learned your lesson. lol Seriously, I wonder if that might be part of Bubba's biting a great deal of the time, actually. None of your 3 really knows you all that well in bird terms. Such a big part of this initial bonding time has been tied up w/some big scary health things. I think you're lucky he's not a grey because your relationship would probably be toast by now. But Bubba's such a trooper & seems to handle so much so well. Still doesn't mean he doesn't have fid flashes where he just gets scared or angry for "no reason". And since they don't show it when they're sick, I also wonder if he's really putting on a good show when he's not really feeling that great sometimes.

Welcome to the club Taco333. I'm sorry you're having a problem w/Taco. And yes, terrible 3's seem to be as bad as terrible 2's sometimes. But another possible consideration is hormones. It is the right time of the year for them to make some fids a little unstable. Ok, downright bananas in some cases. lol With a few spontaneous exceptions, this thread tends to be something more like comic relief & the occasional pity party, than a good place to get serious feedback about specific episodes, though. You might want to post your own thread. I think you might find you'll get you more detailed feedback & suggestions that way.

I don't think they're totally blind in the dark or anything. However, bad house lighting may give them problems. From what I've read, dim light changes their perception of colors (can lead to eating issues) & messes w/their depth perception considerably. TWIX don't know if this is going to make you feel any better. But Phenix has never escaped in 20 yrs. Until yesterday when I watched the little beast get thru a spring loaded cup door w/a really good latch! He's been in this cage for a couple of uneventful years. Then he started working that stupid door maybe a month or so ago. I rearranged the nuts & screw. But he figured out a way to bash the door up & down so it somehow jiggled the bolt just loose enough. Boy was he proud of himself! I had to laugh a little even though I was pretty PO'd. I really like that cage. But he's a fid on a mission. If I can't outsmart him pretty soon, I think I'm going to have to get another cage.

^^^^ I think this is 1 of the top 5 things in Good Parront Tips & Tricks. There's such a huge collection of interests, perspectives & experience available to everyone on the web these days. Being part of a community like GF can cut a parront's work by tons. But birdhouse can say the dumbest things 99/100 times. It doesn't mean she can't uncork a real gem in the 100th post. Dan may seem to be right ALL the time. But it doesn't mean he can't make mistakes, be looking at an issue from a totally different perspective or just might have worded something better. It's important to verify any info w/multiple CREDIBLE sources & always assume that the facts as you've learned them will keep changing as science moves forward. Especially in certain areas like nutrition. Maybe I'm just that kind of geek. But I've always thought it was fun, too. I never stop being amazed at the things I discover & the way things work.

Hey Jay, I think you forgot the link...?

Wingy, if Jake likes peppery, he might like any or all parts of a dandelion. I haven't had any problem finding them in a number of stores throughout most of the year. If you know someplace where you can pick them fertilizer & pesticide free, so much the better. Trying to slog thru the more credible articles on nutrition can be enough to make your eyeballs bleed. Even if you're willing, 'the only thing 2 avian nutritionists can agree on is that the 3rd one has it wrong' (tu Sarasota ). And btw, the so called facts change ALL the time. I agree w/most of Dan's post. Swiss Chard is a good food to incl in a grey diet. It, like every good thing has it's limits. A varied diet is the key to a healthy diet. But I would respectfully tweak a couple of things. Swiss Chard would seem to be a good addition to a bird mash or bread. That could mean daily feeding when putting up months worth & freezing. Too much (whatever that may mean) could eventually become a problem however. It's not a bad thing to know up front to be careful when feeding commercial pellets & any food that's particularly "high in..." You might limit chard, spinach, broccolli, beet greens & such when feeding w/regular commercial pellets because they're on the high side for iron. Unless the pellets are specifically "low iron", they're already likely overloaded w/iron sulphate. How iron gets metabolized depends on a big bunch of factors. But too much can contribute to Iron Overload Disease, long term. Thought these articles were good for explaining different things about this problem. I tried to list them in order of "digestibility". I don't Know that I agree w/everything in the first link. But it's one of the easiest explanations that I found. The second looks long & scary. But it's pretty straight forward & I think it has a big bunch of common sense observation. The Nashville Zoo is not an easy read, but might be worth the effort. http://www.avianweb.com/ironstoragedisease.html http://www.australeclectus.com/articles.cfm http://www.nashvillezoo.org/piciformes/pdf/ironstorageinbirds.pdf