birdhouse

This was actually the link I originally meant to post. It's a little more recent. It was reading about the raw peanuts here that actually got me thinking about the fids http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2012/10/15/peanut-butter-recall-extended-to-raw-roasted-peanuts/ The official FDA link is in that article. But for anyone who wants it http://www.fda.gov/Food/FoodSafety/CORENetwork/ucm320413.htm

I just posted a new thread about Salmonella & the current peanut butter recall http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?197074-Fids-amp-Salmonella-(Peanut-butter-recall) It's is the second time in a short while where I've posted something that might go in a few different rooms. Strictly speaking, I thought it was a health topic. But I wonder if more people would see it if it were in Bird Food or even The Grey Lounge. So, two questions. :confused: What does anyone think about some kind of Special Bulletin type thing &/or sticky for all these (way too frequent) recalls ? :confused: If members are posting something about this type of topic, where would the most readers be likely to see it quickly?

I've been seeing the news about the Sunland, Inc. peanut butter recall. I've been lucky enough to pretty much ignore it because it hasn't been the right stuff or the right store or whatever. But the most recent update made me wonder if the fids might be affected. "In an ongoing recall of peanut and almond butter products over possible salmonella contamination, New Mexico-based Sunland Inc. announced Monday it expanded its recall yet again to include cashew butters, tahini and blanched and roasted peanut products sold at many U.S. supermarkets. New products recalled include varieties of cookies sold at Whole Foods that contain peanut butter, peanut butter cracker snacks sold at Stop & Shop supermarkets, and various ice cream and chocolate snack products. Sunland's recall now includes 101 products, and several retailers have issued additional recalls including items made with Sunland ingredients. Sunland Inc. sells its nuts and nut butters to large groceries and other food distributors around the country. The company recalled products under multiple brand names after salmonella illnesses were linked Trader Joe's Creamy Salted Valencia Peanut Butter, one of the brands manufactured by Sunland. The recall was then expanded last week to include other peanut and almond butter products manufactured by Sunland, 76 products at the time." http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-204_162-57523769/us-peanut-butter-recall-expands-to-more-stores-including-whole-foods-target/ "Do fids even have a problem w/Salmonella...?", I thought. Did some homework & turns out, sure enough! Just in case I wasn't the only one who never knew that, I thought I'd share what I learned today. “Salmonella is a gram-negative rod-shaped bacterium that can infect many species of animals. Salmonellosis, caused by any one of a number of Salmonella species, can cause havoc when it appears in a population. All types of Salmonella species produce an endotoxin, which is the agent responsible for causing illness. It can be a hidden danger because it can reside in soil and water for extended periods. This makes it easily picked up, and then transferred along, infecting host after host. Some hosts become carriers, spreading the bug into the environment. In a parrot aviary, intermittent shedding by perpetual carriers can cause a cycle that is hard to break. The bacterium is shed in feather dust and feces; birds in the surrounding area are infected orally by ingesting contaminated food or water, or the bacterium is passed through into the egg. If infected birds are not treated they often die. People in contact with infected birds can also become ill. Symptoms in birds include:  •Lethargy  •Loss of appetite  •Drinking a lot of water  •Diarrhea, sometimes bloody  •Depression  •Possibly arthritis Symptoms (beginning 12-72 hours after infection) in humans include:  •Vomiting  •Diarrhoea  •Fever  •Dehydration  •Chills  •Abdominal pain  •Possibly arthritis (Reiter’s syndrome) It is very important that infected people or animals be isolated: again, affected people may infect their birds and vice versa. Diagnoses in birds and humans are based on culture and sensitivity tests on bodily samples. Birds are usually placed on aggressive antibiotics (the appropriate ones chosen based on sensitivity tests) for 3-5 weeks and lactobacillus products to replace lost intestinal (beneficial) flora; people usually recover in 5-7 days without treatment other than oral rehydration unless the loss of fluid is so severe that the patient needs to be hospitalized. Strict hygiene is necessary; regular cleaning of bird enclosures and floors and control of pests is a must – to prevent this disease from getting a foothold in your home.” http://www.parrots.org/pdfs/all_about_parrots/reference_library/health_and_nutrition/salmonellosis-a-hidden-danger.pdf

I can't wait to see this! lol Next stop America's Funniest Home Videos. With the fan base you've already got here, it's a shoe-in to make the finals!

* Few birds will not automatically defend their territory, particularly their roost, particularly from strangers. * If a member of the flock telegraphs danger, the whole flock will go on alert. This means they become defensive & often default to aggressive reactions that they wouldn't normally adopt when they feel safe. These are the two main triggers. Just from your post, it appears that you've defaulted to the position that both of these birds are (not could potentially be) a danger to each other. So both birds are now in defensive mode because they've been told they should be. They need to be in neutral territory, away from any known attachments like roosts, food & toys. But they do need to have little bits of interaction to create their own relationship w/each other. If they happen to create an opportunity for themselves, so much the better. They have to learn to get used to each other. Then they have to learn to trust each other. Maybe they'll learn to like each other. It's a process. When the fids aren't perched on a parront, one should always be watching but not hoovering so they don't telegraph emotion. Also, as we all know, parronts are a possession. Not saying this isn't kind of tricky for many parronts & it can be scary at first. Especially between two such different sized birds. But it's very easy for us to create the rifts & problems because it's very difficult to know when to trust the fids to work it out when we can't understand what's going on. Parrot socialization is every bit as complex as human's. But it's important to remember that fids speak the same (body) language & understand the moment much better than we do. That's why a parront's usually best remaining neutral unless there's an obvious reason to fear actual harm at any specific moment. Maybe the hardest things for us to understand is that very often, they're not doing anything more than posturing & testing each other. Even when they bicker (& they will), they make a lot of empty threats. Finding the line between causing more problems & keeping peace & well being can be hard. But it certainly will teach you tons about body language! They may well decide to just ignore each other if no one else makes them pay attention. My guys don't socialize w/each other for the most part. Once in a while they spend time in the same space. But that's about it. And btw, the littlest fid is usually the biggest instigator if there's a problem. I think they know they're going to get protected (my bad). Bonus points if they get the other fid in trouble for something they started. They remind me of my little brothers when they were being brats. But just like kids, fids might just eventually work it out & become BFFs too. (thanks to CLB for the absolutely awesome pic!) http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?196641-Sweet-Sweet-Sleep

Finished or not, sounds like it might be a good time to switch books & try to get on the same page, so to speak. Might also help if you two kick around what you're reading while you're reading it, rather than in the heat of the moment. I know you know this, but it doesn't mean anything just because you read it in a book. It all amounts to theory & suggestions that give you more choices. The only right solution is the one that works right now. Ten minutes from now, who knows. Also, what's right for one of you might not be for the other. Just don't let the fids hear you fighting! lol You may have been kidding. But I think it sounds like a fine idea to start a Co-Parronting thread. A discussion like that could be more helpful for people than you might imagine. So far you've operated on great instincts (very far from being dumb!). Now you're both getting a different perspective which is great :rolleyes:...and if you keep thinking that, you might even believe it . It's just when someone makes you conscious of what you're doing instinctively, it tends to make you a little nuts (like, "Do you exhale when you...?"). It shouldn't be too long before you get back into your comfort zone again though. And just think of how many less bandages you'll need once you get there!

I don't see this posted anywhere. Just got another recall warning from MySafeBirdStore. Please check to make sure your food isn't on the list. Voluntary Product Recall Information of Medium/Large and Large Bird Premium Daily Bird Food For Immediate Release September 29, 2012 – ZuPreem®, under parent company Premium Nutritional Products, Inc. is voluntarily recalling the 11/30/13 and the 11/13 expiration date codes of ZuPreem Medium/Large and Large FruitBlend™ With Natural Fruit Flavors maintenance formula bird foods. This voluntary recall is being initiated because two lots may contain calcium levels higher than the recommended level. The voluntary recall is limited only to 11/30/13 and 11/13 expiration dates. Consumers are advised to review the backside of packaging for the "Use By" or "Best By" (expiration date) to determine if the product has been affected by this voluntary recall. All ZuPreem channels, including distributors and retailers, have been notified of the voluntary recall. Each partner has been asked to immediately remove these products from store shelves. The two voluntarily recalled lots are 598405052 and 598405072. www.zupreem.com/fruitblendvoluntaryrecall

I'm so sorry! I know how much you loved him. But please don't do that to yourself. Almost all of us, and that's a huge number, have had our birds escape at some time. Nothing to do w/negligence. It's just how incredibly smart they are. One of of so many things that so many of us admire about them. Sometimes it's one of the things we can't protect them against, too. So please try to let that go & hold on to the memories you have to treasure.

Think I just found a new desktop background. Thanks Dan!

Phenix hates getting food on his face. It's almost an obsession & he always takes very delicate mouthfuls of anything messy. He must be the neatest eater I've ever seen. He also doesn't tend to fling (much). So maybe that's not a bad habit in the long run. I've had the best luck introducing new foods by mixing known yummy w/unknown foods. Which is how I guess I got interested in mashes. This also works well for sneaking in a bit of good veggies that they never will enjoy. Applesauce &/or oatmeal have been pretty well accepted which is great because I might shave some broccoli buds or fine chopped kale into it for example. If they like peanut butter or Red Palm Oil, I smear a little onto anything I'd like them to try. Mashed squash w/dandelion & cranberries may not look very appetizing to us. But it doesn't matter at all because they definitely have their own ideas about what tastes good. So I just experiment w/any combination at hand. Odds are pretty good something works eventually. So maybe it will work for you guys, too.

Holy Cow!!! Big grin little frown Big chill ... just a bunch of emotions!!! More back story, please??

Thanks Jay. But I can only bring up a list of thread titles. Can't find a way to just get the ones that apply to any specific thing. How do I get the forum search engine to give me a list of older threads?

I was house sitting for the neighbors & theirs started to go off randomly. It had stopped by the time they came home. But they still had everything checked & they never did figure it out. I don't think anyone really slept well for months. If you don't get a package security deal, I usually get my computer stuff at Newegg. I like them. Usually intelligent customer reviews, good service & prices. I don't know, but I thought the first link looked like it might be comparable & seems to come w/the cable, too. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA0WP08H6585 http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100010043&IsNodeId=1&Description=security%20cameras%20for%20home&bop=And&Pagesize=100

There are a number of members who have nanny cams that they can watch at work. You'd only be able to see & hear whatever's going on while you're away. But I know how hard it's going to be for you to be away from home for a while & it might help give you some peace of mind. I don't know anything from alarms. But surely w/all the people on the forum, you'll get some good suggestions. I'm really, really glad that nothing more happened today, though. Hope you can come up w/a good solution soon.

My ekkie & my quaker like that type of swing. But my grey's the one who's not comfortable on anything that's not anchored at 2 points, for some reason. I always love you're pictures. Everyone looks so beautiful!!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25572396@N04/7981431942/in/photostream/ http://www.parrot-link.co.uk/index.php?topic=42000.0 These photos are obviously not of greys or meant to prove anything about whether greys can eat aloe. They're only meant to show that (all) aloe is not toxic to (all) parrots. That theory obviously needs work. The Brown-Head's are also feeding in the wild. No arguably misguided parront involved. Always better safe than sorry. No one should ever feed their birds anything that they aren't as fully convinced as possible is safe. But there are a lot of things that are still being discovered about healthy diets. Bird, human or otherwise. Aloe is still apparently open for discussion. And whether they chose to feed it or not, parronts can still learn a lot just from doing the research. Which makes this is a greyt thread. I really hope it keeps growing.

You love it & you know it. You're just angling for a private sauna. ...good thinking!!

Again, I sincerely apologize for my part in this.

If no one ever tested the boundaries, domestic parrots would routinely have their wings clipped, live in 2 ft by 2 ft cages, & fed sunflower seeds & peanuts. They might even get the occasional time chained on a stand in the hall, just as a treat. Wonder if some old pirate saw a fid munching on a chicken bone, having supper w/his captain & thought, "Are you nuts?!! Who does that?!!!" But a few hundred years later, here we are. I'm old enough to have lived life "for a little while" before the internet. And it's my God given right to leave it at that. If, as in the case of feeding asparagus, I don't specify anything more, let's agree that it's something I've been doing for the past 20 yrs(ish ) because I really can't remember anymore. If it were a new thing, I would establish a bit more specific time frame. Like feeding aloe for the past "few years". So more than 3, less than 23. Sorry for any confusion. Not feeling singled out or anything. Just hoping to clarify things for future reference. And for the record, it doesn't matter what anyone is feeding a fid. Things happen. Nothing can make that any clearer than the most recent round of recalls. Parronts should always be watchful for any changes. And that's not a statement I can be made to justify. Ever.

Oops, sorry. I knew it was a matter of time before I messed up. Yay for Bubba!!!!!!!!!!!! Great news!!!!!!!!!! How did he behave for Pat at the vet? Too bad about the dust bath. I'd love to know if they'd use it. I always wondered if it would be a good alternative since greys are notoriously difficult to bathe. But most of us don't have any way to make it work.

http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?196901-ALOE...consumption&p=268214#post268214 This is what I was thinking, but I'm much too lazy to do the long version again. lol aerial.2000, I'm so sorry I ever accidentally chose to mention asparagus & got all this stirred up on your punkin thread!!

I do tend to holistic sites often. So that was an easy one off the top of my head. I certainly don't agree w/everything I read. I'm not a Carolyn Swicegood groupie. But she is referenced on a lot of very credible sites besides her own. Land of Vos appears to be well respected in many circles. Although there are certainly going to be controversies & you can discredit anybody if you work at it a little. Which just shows where bird keeping is at right now. The best of the best can still find a lot to disagree on. I've researched fresh fed aloe for a few years now. Doesn't make me any kind of expert. Just convinced me that aloe has very worthwhile properties for my own flock. I'm sorry I don't have the stick any more & can't say which type. But, I've grown my own, fed it to my birds & seen no issues. I've read often enough that's what seems to cause the problems so I did avoid the bitters to be safer. It's also an occasional addition to their diet in the winter when I think it should do the most good. And I don't feed more than a small amount at a time. Initially I made the decision because of everything I've read on a number of different types of sites. Including GF, if only I could find the threads w/the member discussions & references I was looking for. But I can only track one little one down & the reference link is dead, unfortunately. http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?81754-Aloe-Vera-Juice http://www.parrot-and-conure-world.com/non-toxic-for-birds.html http://www.parrots.org/index.php/forumsandexperts/answers/nutrition_and_supplements/ http://www.greenandhealthy.info/aloeveraplants.html http://www.aviannation.com/archive/index.php/t-8685.html http://www.avianweb.com/kidneydiseasebirds.html http://www.avianweb.com/gout.html http://eclectusparrots.net/aloevera.html http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=20&cad=rja&ved=0CFcQFjAJOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thegabrielfoundation.org%2Fdocuments%2Fselectedshorts.doc&ei=BChZUPyiIISF0QGny4DwCA&usg=AFQjCNFvYhXtOLbvXa86JCL-PvEfQszsKQ For however many sites that say it's ok, there's a bunch that say no. That's why I originally used the word "debatable" when I brought it up in the Punkin thread. But I think debate is good because it gives parronts that much more information & perspective to use so they can make better choices along the way. Because we all have to make our own minds up in the end.

"He retrieved his prize and then stood there to eat it instead of rushing back into his cage." Wow, that surprised me!!! This is where Phenix & Gilbert are so different! There is nothing that would have enticed Phenix into that cage if he knew I wanted him to "manipulate" him into going there. Especially if he knew I was watching & he always does (speaking of scary). He would either have begged non stop for a while, or turned his tail on the whole thing. But I'll pretty much guarantee I would have gotten bitten for "something else entirely" not too long after. The fid holds a grudge when he wants to. lol So you won that one big time. Good for you!! Good for Gilbert, too.

People obviously debate whether or not parrots should be fed fresh aloe slices. It has the same amino acid, I believe as well as salicylic acid (original anti inflammatory base in aspirin) & such that can apparently upset a parrot's tummy. It's not all that rare to find it on a toxic plant list. But a number of owners feed it regularly w/o bad side affects & feel it's actually good for fids ... just like asparagus which was originally the point. http://www.landofvos.com/articles/wingtips/aloe.html This is an article by Carolyn Swicegood. Not that she's infallible either. But some people think she knows some stuff. For anyone who doesn't want to read the whole thing, skip to the bottom for the part about fresh feeding.

Would someone please tell me how to find threads from older discussions? It used to be that I could just do an advanced search. But that stopped working a while ago. Then I started Goggling "greyforums X topic" . Most of the time that doesn't work any more, either. Sometimes it returns a couple of usually newer topics. But that's it. We've had a lot of great discussions about things. It would be a shame to lose them. And it's very, very frustrating to have to research the same topics over & over when so many great threads already exist. I assume I'm missing something here. So could someone please tell me what I'm doing wrong? Thanks!!