birdhouse

It's always about guessing until you get it right or the fid finally works It out on it's own. To me, it would not appear that Charlie was very fond of this lady. I think your wife is taking the fall out for some misplaced aggression. It really seems possible Charlie was actually afraid of the woman. It may be throwing more fuel on the fire at the moment. Also, he may have thought the carrier meant he was going back & he certainly seems to want no part of that. So you've got a kind of major set back going on. But you & your wife have already proven that you can bond w/Charlie & that's the biggest hurdle cleared. Your wife needs to rebuild the trust she didn't mean to lose by starting from the beginning, again. No pushing, no expectations. Just patience & good intentions. You can also put in a good word for her, as it were. Encourage them to be around each other when he's w/you for reassurance. But only as long as Charlie looks comfortable w/it. Then it's a matter of how long it takes him to get over what just sounds to me like his fear. Also, really hope the mean lady won't be back...?

Ekkie's don't apparently have very strong bills & truth be told, tend to be a little lazy. Kura doesn't bother w/the nuts & harder woods that would really help keep her beak down. But she does like some softer woods, although she won't touch Pine. She's got a huge hanger of birch disks that she really likes. Makes me think of "how you eat an Oreo". She methodically strips the bark, then destroys each disk, one at a time. She loves reed, vine & rattan, too. Balls, baskets & wreaths are her fav. Also does some pretty fair damage on Balsa wood pcs. She may even hold a Popsicle stick while she destroys it. Kind of a big deal because like most other ekkies, she doesn't use her talons often. So maybe if you experiment some, you'll find something for your girl.

Very sorry you lost Echo. My landlord opened a window w/o realizing the birds were out & I lost one kind of the same way. It happens so fast! Storm may be grieving or empathizing w/your loss. Fids can have some funny ways of showing emotion. Time enough to think about getting another fid after everything settles down. You're obviously not ready to love another one right now & that wouldn't be fair to anyone.

Awww!! What a sweet way to start the day. Lots & lots & lots more to come, too!

As much as all of that stinks, it's good that you've got people you can depend on. Hang in. The doctors will get you back on your feet. E-hugs & lots of good wishes for a quick recovery. Keep us posted, ok.

Losing them leaves such a deep wound. I'm so sorry for you pain & loss, Dan.

Beautiful dark eyes & lit-tle bits of food on her face. What a sweetie pie! Nice sized cage ( & for the price btw). Last I heard A&E still had a decent reputation. Think that's going to be a keeper, too. There aren't any strict rules about how many perches, because, for starters the branches are all different & they're all reasons for Noel to keep moving around. Swings, ladders, platforms & even some toys are all different & all perching, too. That cage has plenty of space to experiment w/what will keep Noel happy & busy. I really do agree about adding a boing to the list before Noel gets home!! They're big which does intimidate some fids badly. If one is already in the cage when she arrives, it might be easier to accept. I like Sisal so I don't have to worry about loose threads as it gets old. Most fids spend a great deal of time on them. A boing is a lot of perch space, multidimensional, easy to grip, fun to climb, swings, bounces AND has a bell. They're also fun to hang toys on & Phenix likes to beat his up occasionally. Well worth the investment, honest. Creating a comfortable cage is kind of a process that feels right for both of you, eventually. My cage layout is a roosting, "privacy" area somewhere high & towards the back, at least one open space for flight exercises for that 2 ft wingspan & the easiest possible access to the cage cups. Nice to minimize how much poop targets everything below. But that usually involves finding out where the fid likes to hang out, as much as anything. You can see a lot of different ways to set up a cage if you look thru the pics in the "Show Us Your Cage" thread on the "Cages & Homes" forum. Also, you may have to accommodate Noel's coordination before anything at this point. So, you might want to ask Bird Paradise if they have any particular suggestions since they're most familiar w/her.

Thanks. I'm w/you on the plastic bags! I originally tried ice cube trays, too. But after a while, I wasn't crazy about working w/them. I'd just as soon avoid plastic containers, anyway. So, I found these type of 6 oz glass containers. http://www.amazon.com/Kitchen-Supply-Ounce-Glass-Custard/dp/B001HIAD2Y/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1359311625&sr=8-5&keywords=pyrex+4+oz+glass+food+storage+containers They're a nice size to store on the door. A cup will thaw overnight in the fridge. Each portion lasts roughly 2 days per fid. Don't have to worry about random chunks keeping the cover from sealing & the food just seemed fresher. I also like the way they clean compared to anything else. So, if the trays don't work out long term, this might be another alternative.

"36 inches wide, 28 inches deep 69 inches high, inside height 54 inches" ...sounds about right. I have no problem standing inside it to clean & I'm 5'9". It's huge, but not overly heavy. So I can move it around, which I really like. But I think it still weighs something like 185 lbs...? So it's not at all cheap. Well treated, a good cage should last 15 yrs or more. So it's still a relatively new cage at about 5 yo. The paint job (which is really the reason you usually have to replace a cage) is easy to clean & not oxidizing or rusting anywhere. Kura's also a trash picker. She'll fish anything she can out of the litter tray. The space between the grate & litter tray is ~ 4-5". She tried for quite a while, but she can't even get close. This might also be something to watch for w/whatever cage you end up choosing. Some birds are into that sort of thing & besides being just gross, it can make them sick.

I had a King's 137 which is actually quite roomy, too. http://www.ebay.com/itm/KINGS-CAGES-137-PARROT-CAGE-36x24x72-bird-cages-/370676851756?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item564e0fe42c But this is somewhere between the cost of the King's Euro line & the 2 you originally linked. My ekkie's in one w/lots of toys, perches, a boing & plenty of room to spare. Like the veranda door & the overall quality. Cleans nice & is aging very well. http://www.ebay.com/itm/ELT-3628-PARROT-CAGE-36x28x69-bird-cages-toy-toys-african-grey-amazon-eclectus-/370672216548?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item564dc929e4 Or this could be a little cheaper. Can't tell if there's freight charges http://aviansuperstore.com/?product=ELT-3628&cid=Bird%20stuff%20by%20Kings!kings Got mine on Craig's List for $175.

I think some fids eventually become conditioned to sit & do nothing when that's all they can do year after year. Once they're back in a healthy environment some seem to need to re-learn how to be a normally active parrot again. How long they take to engage socially, fly, play may depend on the fid's personality, health & age. Bongo's finally healthy. That may have slowed him down some, though. But it almost sounds like he's totally content w/that & his amazing new environment. There's a lot of activity to observe, all that great interaction & stimulus, not to mention that incredible aviary, when it's available. So maybe it's time to try to teach Bongo to play, again. Don't know how many times I've posted this book. With all the different types of material she uses, it's hard to believe there's not something for everyone. http://www.parrotenrichment.com/images/PEAB_V1.pdf Thinking maybe something like this because of the food. Maybe a foot toy to start. Then hang it once you've got a combo that he'll take apart. Cuttle bone chunks & bone might help w/his beak, too.

^^^ That's one of the reasons I'm not crazy about water bottles. It's hard enough to get them to take a bath as it is. I really don't want to deliberately keep them from being able to, on the rare occasion they actually want to. I'm also very concerned about being able to sanitize them. Warm, stagnant water breeds an amazing amount of germs in an incredibly short time. I'm worried that I won't be able to get them 100% rinsed so the bird would be drinking whatever I've cleaned them w/on top of everything else. Plastic bottles are worse because they can absorb germs & cleaner. At least glass doesn't. A plastic surface also scores over time which would make it even worse as the bottle gets older. And call me cynical, but I have a hard time believing that they're made from nontoxic plastic when so many human grade drinking & storage containers aren't. That's why I don't use plastic cage cups, either.

Ok. So I am not alone, either. lol Greywings, I thought my PM was dead for a while. The work around for me was to go thru Settings, if that's any help. I couldn't get into my mailbox any other way for the longest time. Guess now that I think about it, PM has been buggy for a lot longer than I realized.

You're doing an amazing job w/a group of seriously challenging fids already. No way anyone should ever be able to accuse you & Pat of being anything like heartless. I think you get points for knowing your limits before you go (way) past them.

I've been having that problem off & on for a couple of months. It's like the whole right side of the screen is dead for mouse click. I can't click to edit in the conversation box on that side, either. I found out that if I shrink the screen font really, really small, the "Submit" button moves out of the Dead Zone. After a couple of times of doing this & hitting the "Preview" button, it usually seems to clear whatever's happening. Thought it was something to do w/the last update for my browser (Firefox). And it only happens sometimes. So I've just been working around it.

Birds hide their symptoms. You probably couldn't have known what was going on before now. And you did everything you could once you had a reason to suspect something was wrong. But hopefully you've found a great new vet. You've also found Grey Forums. There is an incredible amount of information here & members from all over the world w/all different types of knowledge & experience. You & Luigi are part of our flock now. Hope you'll keep posting when you have time or if you've got any questions, or just want to share w/a very large bunch or grey-o-holics who really do get it.

Avian vets are specially trained because birds are a unique physiology & it's pretty delicately balanced. I think Metacam was used as a pain killer. The vet you saw may have over prescribed it or underestimated the injury. So your fid may be having a hard time balancing. I'd suspend dosing until you see the new vet tomorrow. Try to keep everyone as calm as possible. Remember our emotions are contagious for our fids. Best to keep your baby as warm as possible tonight. About 85 F is ideal. Also, keeping him as still as possible may help keep him from further injury. If he'll tuck in on your arm, that might be ok til bedtime. If he's comfortable in his travel cage, it might be good a good place for him to sleep. Ideally, having him on the ground is safest. But birds don't like to be flat footed. It may upset him &/or he may try to climb, defeating the effort. If he really won't settle otherwise, you might try taking all but a low perch out of his cage. Put it as close to the bottom as the bars will allow. A branch or possibly Comfy Perch or even ladder might be easier to grip than a dowel. Add something like a blanket to cushion the bottom. Make sure all food & water dishes are w/in reach & cover the cage to let him sleep if he's comfortable w/a cover. Otherwise, lights off & no activity where it might disturb him. Either way, peek in on him occasionally thru the night. Call the vet if something concerns you between now & his appointment. Very, very good call to make that second appointment! Never be afraid to follow your instincts if you have a reason to question a vet. Very often, you know your fid best. I'm very sorry to hear about all of this. Good luck tomorrow. Please keep us posted, ok?

Sorry to say, that's pretty common. Nobody seems to appreciate it if you just dump something that size in their cage w/o warning. It may help if you just hang it somewhere accessible, but non-threatening to Rita. Then forget about until she chooses to check it out. Beyond that the solution is trial & error for each bird. And it can take even as much as a year for them to suddenly decide the thing is pretty greyt. But then, one day... :cool:

While I was reading, I kept wondering why Tobie was so upset, though. What you posted sounded like it was more spontaneous to me. Like something spooked Tobie badly & his reaction was misplaced aggression. They're famous for that & you aren't likely to get much warning from their body language if that's it. Everything happens too fast. Phenix was going thru a bad phase where there was just no understanding why he was lashing out. I was prepared to write it off as Phenix being Phenix, because he's not a sweetie like Tobie. Then I was *lucky enough* to be changing his water dish & saw a hawk go by the window just as I was about to get nailed. ...OH! Turned out they were building a nest in the yard. By the look of it, they'd probably been coming & going for a while. I hadn't seen them. But Phenix had & he does not like them at all. Birds don't miss anything that happens around them & that means everything they see, smell & hear. So this made me wonder if Tobie's seeing/smelling/hearing something you're not or don't realize is even scary to him. Whatever it is, I hope you can figure it out soon, though.

Glad to hear all is forgiven. If it helps any, after a while, you'll probably get pretty good at judging the sentence for most real or imagined crimes. Having spent a greyt deal of time in the dog house by now, I've learned this lesson (too) well.

Wonder if he let you kiss his belly because he knows he's one of the luckiest fids on the planet. Happy Homecoming Bongo!!

http://www.milwaukeezoo.org/explore/webcams/jaguarcubs.php Not exactly the best set up. A little much like "Where's Waldo...?" But may be worth a peek, anyway. (screen grab from the Milwaukee Zoo Jaguar's web cam 1.09.13 17:30 EST)