TinyTimneh

Well, just to counteract your opinion that TAG's are stable I've got Jacko, who's 8(9?) and has chewed his feathers in the same spots to varying degrees for all of the three years he's been with me and was doing so long before he came to me. My local vet is a downer too, basically told me it was normal for greys to do that and at least I should be grateful he hasn't plucked himself bald. Sometimes it just comes to the bird in question and its genetics/environment... maybe your vet is used to seeing greys with bad parents bought by people who don't raise them right?

Congrats on your new greys! I think the fact that you can touch them so quickly after they arrived at your place is good. I wouldn't worry about step-ups quite yet, instead, just let them both out to play, feed them some treats and hang out together for a bit. After you've all come to know each other well, then, you can work on the step-ups. I think actually you should let Chazwick out onto his cage and the stand, in fact, it might be easier to work with him away from his cage, same with the other grey. As far as training goes, aside for the basics of keep calm, go slow and always be positive and never hit or yell at your birds, how you train them is a personal thing. Aim for the basics of 'step-up' and 'off' (or down, whatever you like), what you teach your parrots after that is up to you. Read through some books, (there's got to be a suggested reading list on this forum somewhere). Also, don't set your sights so high, no one gets it right the first time, and by having such expectations, your nervous energy about being afraid to mess up will transfer to your birds, everyone makes mistakes. heck, there's no book on parenting, for human babies or parrots, it's trial and error. Oh, and don't be afraid to set boundaries, limitations and rules for the greys, and as they're older birds heading into maturity they're gonna need them, it might be more difficult because they've never had rules before but stick to it. Good luck and feel free to ask more questions to anyone here if you need more help!

I second what SJ said about greys being single species flcok birds... they often dislike other birds. I'm pretty stunned your vet recmmends another bird... especially if your grey plucks now for attention. It's only gonna get wrose with another bird around, because she'll feel invaded and jealous and pluck even more because not only does she want all your time, now she cannot have it and has another bird to constantly remind her of that fact. I won't argue that another living creature might help out, but consider something that just makes noise, like a canary, if you want to go that route and get your grey a 'buddy' for when you're out. Instead, put your effort into teaching your bird to play alone and entertain herself, plus give her some sort of not too rigid schedule and teach her ways that are acceptable to get your attention. ignore her plucking for attention also. good luck!

I would suggest tofu (if you can the grey to eat it of course... heck, i don't even like it much myself) as an occasional thing. it has a high level of protein, and protein in excess is hard on the kidneys etc. also, i don't know if this applies to birds as well but tofu cotains a compound that is basically an estrogen hormone that can be harmful etc to people when eaten frequently.

All 3 of my birds eat the tropican pellets. Now, they don't taste like much so if your grey's picky you might wanna try the zupreem flavours instead, but then again zupreem has alot of artifical colours/flavours etc whereas the tropican does not. I don't think that switching brands will tempt your grey severely because all the common brands taste alike. so, it's up to you as which brand you choose, each has its pros and cons. Personal experience is avoid the tropimix, often they'll just toss out the pellets and eat the rest. try (unless of course your grey has a medical etc issue) not free-feeding your bird anymore (let him have two meals per day instead of browsing on an unlimited amount of food at his leisure all day long). don't try any of the 50-50 suggestions of mixing the pellets and the seeds etc on the packages either, the bird will just pick out what he wants. instead, in the morning, give the grey a dish of pellets and water, some veggies if you feed them usually. then go about your routine, if by nightime your grey has not eaten anything, give him a small portion of seeds or whatever he's currently eating for a short while, then remove the bowl. the next morning repeat the process. eventually he'll get pretty hungry. if the grey begins to lose alot of weight or hasn't eaten in a couple of days, stop this technique. good luck!

Like the others said, 445 for a tag is doubtful. Jacko stays at 350, but had a point where it looked like he was up near 365 (my gram scale could've been faulty), and he's pretty big for a TAG.

I totally fel your frustration Salias--- yours truly here has spastic diplegia (form of cerebral palsy) and yes, I've face-planted in the bathtub quite a few times myself. Because I'm not that steady on my feet etc, I would recommend getting a perch that you can place in the bathtub. Then, pull up a chair and mist away! IT's gonna take a while for your grey to disassociate bathing with the incident but it will happen. Also, do remembeer greys aren't like other parrots sometimes. Other species may go crazy and do a funny dance when their wet etc, but with greys, if they're just sitting there letting the water fall on them while they kinda close their eyes that's a good sign. That's a happy grey taking a bath. Sometimes they do act like other parrots and get crazy, sometimes they don't. Just keep practicing with your bird, offer lots of praise while you bathe her, and if she starts really, really trying to get away or something then stop for the day, give the bird a treat and go do something else. With time it'll get better. good luck!

here's food for thought: what about lining the bottom of the cages (in the trays and only with a grate separating of course) some stick-on vinyl flooring? seems to me it cuts down on a huge amount of waste (no newspaper, and the bits of wood, food etc aren't all that huge or hard to dispose of, again, I could very well just scatter them a corner of the yard or something) and all the poop should wipe right off it and it would be easy to disinfect. what do you guys think?

Hey all, I know I've probably been driving everyone nuts with my 'fourth bird posts' but here's an update, and a final one at that. the umbrella cockatoo was a no-no, the rescue recently discovered that it had developped a preference for men. So it's back down to the white-front and... a TAG! Was perusing through the classifieds... (always looking for people selling playstands or cages or whatnot) and lo-and-behold an add for a Timneh for sale popped up and I couldn't help myself. Their asking $600 so I emailed them asking for info on the bird and if the bird doesn't have any difficulties that I can't handle (like obvious hatred of other birds or a preference for men etc) and I can get the $$ in time (it'll take another paycheck buuut I'm hoping they'll be persuaded to hold onto the bird for a bit). If not... then I'll be waiting for the white-front. Lol, I won't lie, I'm kinda psyched... hope things work out... I like helping birdies in need and well i love greys (obviously ) Srry guys.... don't mean to ramble... but ah the fun/excitement.

hey all, well, because i've made a promise to my birds that they will never be rehomed (and I will hold true to this), i've begun wondering sbout ye old noise factor. My exisisting three aren't too loud (the South American parakeet outscreams them both) and where I am noise is not a problem. My housemates tolerate it. BUT, obviously I will be moving out on my own at some point, most likely to an appartment. I am aware that in this scenario, my birds might/will be considered loud and I might face fines/eviction/having to sell my feathered babies. So, adding to behavioural modification etc., I want to soundproof the bird room. Obviously I want to make sure this is as cheap for me and safe for them as possible. I cannot tear down/modify the existing walls/drywall etc. So any ideas/websites for me to check out? Added to this the potential fourth bird to my flock (white-front amazon... or get this... possible (emphasis on possible) umbrella cockatoo that's in a rescue near my place) will be very loud, with screaming problems and natural loudness.

it's not you doing anything wrong. when you first brought you grey home, he went through a 'honeymoon' phase. everything was new and unknown to him so he didn't want to cause a fuss or cause negative/bad things to happen so he just went with the flow. now, that time is ending, and he realizes you are not his former flockmate so why should you have the right to touch him type thing. He does not know you or have reason to like/trust you right now. Be patient, build trust and a relationship and he may turn into a snugglebug again with time. Also, he is going through the terrible twos and is starting to explore/push boundaries and grow up. all baby parrots like to snuggle, but as they get older than can/does change.

you don't really need instructions. clicker training is the same principle regardless of species. just replace the 'good bird' with a click, followed by a treat. Eventually your bird will think 'AHA! that click means i've done it right and get a reward' and then you're done. i suppose if you wanted to know how to teach specific tricks it might be handy but for establishing the methods of clicker training it's not worth it.

get a durable empty bottle (like a big gatorade bottle) wash it out, let it dry and then stuff it with all kinds of paper and nuts/seeds/toys, whatever you bird likes best. Then, place it on the bottom of the cage or wherever and let him play with it. Try placing a few easy-to-get treats at first to get him intrigued. it'll take him a really long time to manipulate all the stuff out of the top opening in the bottle and keep him occupied for a while. i've also heard about using loofahs (those poufs people use in the shower to wash with) and hiding treats etc in the folds. But i haven't tried it yet so be careful if you use it.

geez, well here's an update, jacko has taken to attacking inanimate objects that come by his cage. This has to stop. It's one thing to get mad if another bird goes by.. but a plastic container?? gimme a break. he deosn't go after people, except for certain small children. but other animals and now inanimate objects are fair game. He is (almost never) aggressive with me... or territorial for that matter, and with most people he is a jewel. Has anyone got a solution? I've scoured the net for help but it only deals with territorial parrots attacking people, not things and animals. obviously I won't consider another bird if this doesn't start to remedy itself. Part of it is cage size i know, because the less a bird has the more forcibly they protect it but I am soon to buy his new cage. ANY help would be much appreciated!

Well, luvparrots, part of the TAG's aggressiveness (and a large part of his plucking) are due to lack of boundaries on my part. He gets jealous etc because he doesn't realize that it's not ok for him to hog my time and that the other birds are just as valuable as he is. He needs to learn this. It's not fair or acceptable for the other members of my flock (or me) to have to deal with his tantrums (he'll bite me if he can if i am paying attention to the other birds). I've always respect his position as first bird and sub-alpha bird, but he seems yet to realize that he is not lord and master. This thing I want to try is not only for the other birds but for him in a tough love sort of way. He can't be a brat. It's not healthy for him to get sll wound up and aggressive so frequently, nor is it enjoyable or safe. I love Jacko in inmeasurable amounts, but this scenario would not replicate itself in the wild to this extreme (unless of course he believed i was his mate, which he does, but I am actively discouraging this) and cannot be tolerated by me, it makes him frustrated and angry, and endangers others. He also does this with other animals and small kids for example

lol, the video is too cute, glad to see i'm not the only one who scours youtube for bird videos in a perfect world, my birds would get along like this. but my TAG was not socialized with other birds as a baby (i just have this weird feeling he didn't come from a breeder and was probably a birdie mill bird) so I often wonder what he would do if he was away from his cage and given the opportunity to interact with another parrot of his size. there might be some initial scuffles but i think he would eventually come around and enjoy a bird buddy. of course, my other two are WAAAY too small to allow this. but i think with some work he could eventually be trusted if everyone was clipped and far away from each other on their own playstands. so it's definetly a no on the grey by the way, what other TAG sized birds can you guys think of?

lol, i know what you mean Ina, try giving each their own space and paying attention to your Jardine always first, never second.. it may cut down on the jealousy.

Hey all, so, tonight was an event for me. Was putting the tiel back in the cage and because it's one of those double decker cages the TAG has the cage above hers, he usually gets mad and comes running over because he feels invaded which is normal... but guess what yours truly forgot to do... LOCK THE CAGE DOOR! So, of course, TAG comes diving out his cage, tiel takes off and of course i reacted in time so no one got hurt (except for me... I got used as a anger release by Jacko and i was bit twice). But here's the interesting thing. At first I was terrified, that was the scenario of my nightmares... but... no one got hurt... when the TAG chased the tiel she just flew away. no fighting... no bleeding... no shrieking... she just flew higher up to where the TAG couldn't get her. so.. could I not in theory have both out if they're far away from each other and closely supervised and with the tiel flighted etc. Also, I don't expect them to get along, but they have to tolerate each other. So would it be effective if when they're both out playing if the Tag acts aggressively if he gets returned to his cage as a time out in order to teach him that it is unacceptable to be aggressive towards the other birds?

If this was an actively aggressive bird, then maybe the dominant approach might work. but this is a terrified bird. so go slow. it's ok if the bird won't eat from your hands, in that case just drop it in his dish and back up, read a book, and occaisonally whistle or play peek-a-boo from behind a book. work in increments. slowly start staying closer to the bird while he eats the treat, then when he'll let you stand there while he eats try offering him one from your hasnd without eye contact, and then with eye contact etc. once he'll actively approach you to eat a seed, then try working on the step-ups. if he likes baths, offer him one, it'll help you both bond. or maybe share some bird safe food. good luck

Jacko the TAG spends his days with the following critters: -me (lol) -Sully a two year old female tiel -Altair (means "bird", or "the flyer" in Arabic) the creamino linnieolated parakeet who's about 6 months old -A betta fish

all right then, here's an update: the breeder hasn't gotten back to me, becuz ironically once he actually had babies available a while back I wasn't able to take one. Now that I am, he hasn't returned any of my e-mails. Soooo I believe that counts out the baby grey. Ah well. So it looks pretty good for the lil amazon right now. can anyone think of another bird that's similarly sized ro a TAG that I could look into if she's already been purchased by the time I have the means to go get her?

hey all, i've decided to add the fourth and final member of my flock (up until my retirement of course, but by then the tiel and linnie will be long dead and the TAG aging and i can finally enterntain my dream of one of the big parrots... like a hyacinth macaw ) it won't be 'till this summer-ish but i'd like to do some research and renovations and purchases and decide beforehand. here are my choices: a 3-yr old white-front amazon from a local pet store who actually really likes me and who i feel bad for, but she bites and screams OR i've contated a CAG breeder in my area and could await a baby grey. i'm stuck... on one hand a amazon is more resilient (already having a plucking bird makes me a bit wary... i really don't want to deal with two)and maybe being a south american bird will integrate more readily with my multi-species flock. also, i have had a tremendous success with older birds, and 2/3 of my flock were older when i acquired them. also, she is practically the same size as my TAG (another issue i don't want to put myself in yet again, dealing with two drastically different sized birds, just too much danger). BUT she screams... and the last thing I want is all three screaming. I'm also not sure i'm 'amazon' enough... they're a bit feistier than what i'm used to. conversely, i really want to experience raising a baby grey, and i do love greys (obviously, who wouldn't? ) and also... i'll admit that the prospect of maybe having a good talker... but i know they're sensitive and i don't want to mess up. also, i don't want to have a bird too much bigger than my TAG... what do you guys think?

The unfortunate thing is, you've purchased an unweaned parrot, thank god it's an amazon and slightly more resistant psychologically, this is usually the worst-case scenario with greys or cockatoos. THAT SAID however, this is a bad, bad, bad situation you've found yourself in. I know this is sort of after the fact, but NEVER NEVER NEVER ever purchase an unweaned baby. I'm gonna assume that the guy you got it from won't take it back to finish weaning it (and if he sold it to you unweaned he isn't a very good breeder anyway). there is no set timeline for when a baby bird will start eating on it's own. some may take more time, some take less, and if you try to force him before he's ready you will damage him emotionally & mentally (possibly physically) for life. I've never raised a baby parrot and weaned them, so I cannot give you hands-on advice. There are a host of issues you're having, and I recommend that you firstly talk to yuor avian vet and ask for his help and find other breeders in your area and call them, they should know what to do. ideally, of course, would be to get this baby in the hands of an experienced breeder to set him back on track but i don't think this is possible. get yourself a few very good books on raising parrots and training them. be forewarned you have ALOT of very hard and important work ahead of you, I know that it's specifically designed for grey babies but I also think you should check out the the nursery forum. good luck

hmmm.. well... i own a TAG, and iMHO, it's possible that TAG's a little more relaxed, but both species are pretty cautious. Now, truthfully, i've never interacted one on one with a CAG but from the ones I've been around they seem a bit more snooty. TAG's seem to be a bit more goofy. again, personal experience. but i think there are too many variables... age, experiences, environment, genetics, rescued or not... etc. if i ever get another Grey and it happens to be a CAG i'll do a comparison

well... first i might check environment juust in case, he could be bored or hungry or afraid of something you've added to the room. doesn't sound like it but it never hurts to make sure. mostly for attention i think, or he could just particularly like this noise. I might go as far as to say don't leave the room because technically you getting up and leaving is a reaction and thus he's getting a reaction, even though it is not what he wants. Instead, invest in earplugs. It is not possible to completely remove a sound from a greys repetoire, but you can get them to forget it/stop using it. if he's learned to bark, he'll always have the capacity to do so. just depends on if he gets stimulus/rewards from doing so. My TAG barks too (inside dog and outside dog), so I know what you mean (however jacko's obnoxious noise was someone hammering on a roof instead of barking) but look on the bright side... all the barking deterrent of a dog and none of the fur !