TinyTimneh

i just like to say don't lose hope, my TAG came from a similar situation. don't feel bad, nsil clipping wouldn't cause this, especially not so after the fact like this. i clip my TAG's nails weekly (they're overgrown) and a severe reaction like this never happens. if your grey is almost two, this might be your cause. Your bird is now going thru the 'terrible twos' and some go thru a nippy or alternatively fearful/phobic phase. there are several books and such that deal with this topic, try looking at them. also, something that really helped with my grey was feeding him some treats in the palm of my hand while he was in his cage for a while, and not trying to touch or handle him otherwise. you can always offer a headscratch if he'd like one but don't ask him to come out if he doesn't want to. once he's calmed down enough (so that's he's not screaming and fleeing from you for example) then you must progress to step-up practice (at least daily) away from his cage (let him come out, don't reach in for him). hope that helps a bit!<br><br>Post edited by: TinyTimneh, at: 2008/06/15 02:28

thanx tari, i was just putting her to bed after her little play session with me (i sat her on my lap and rattled toys and things and showed her while i played with them... not too much reaction) and as i put her back in her cage for bedtime i remembered what u suggested earlier, so i switched the toy placement around and hung them outside her cage.. and surprise! she went over and startrf pecking for the longest time i've seen yet thru the bars at the toy. maybe this isn't a hopeless case after all, new baby linnie patakeet is coming home on monday, hopefully some modelling of playing on the linnie's part will encourage her further, the tiel learnt to chew on the pine playstand like the TAG does...

thanks for all the help so far, however, i've already tried the contact calls and she only increases the volume and frequecy of her screams. will try the toys hanging outside the cage thing next, didn't think of that. if you can think of more ways to get her moving and exploring instead of just sitting and eating let me know.

that's good news to hear, that there can be days where the birds don't get out at all and don't self-destruct, i feel so guilty some days when the birds only get an hour or two, especially with all the news of this magical 'four hours' you read about. is there a way to get a bird used to spending time in the cage, my TAG often begins to pluck if he cannot come out when he feels like it. also, if the out of cage time varies some days how do you prevent the birds getting confused/stressed?

Lol, these are the days i'm happy i luv my tiel because wow, can she sure drive me crazy! i've got a couple of issues with her and i was just wondering if anyone could give me a hand. sully is a female grey/pied tiel who approx. two years old, in that time, she has become sweet as pie and very tame HOWEVER the screaming is beginning to get untolerable. normally, she's quiet, doesn't whistle much, even when i whistle at her, but as soon as i begin to walk toward that door she panicks and begins to pace and scream and scream and scream even though i always tell both the birds i'm leaving (either i'll be right back or see ya later depending on the length of time) until i come back. the radio and tv r always on and i leave the blinds open. The TAG doesn't even scream like this. she's got plenty of perches and toys and bells and chewables but doesn't touch them, also a good sized cage (2 feet by two feet by two feet). she seems more exploratory outside her cage but just sits and eats inside it. i've shown her how to play but she only pecks at it for about two seconds and only when i'm interacting with her. all she seems to do is eat. that and peck at the poop that gets on the grate sometimes (why does she do that!?) any ideas on how i can get her to stop this?

well thanx, Jacko's doing ok, (usually steps up on his own from inside the cage) but i just don't feel that connection, that level of interactive-ness that i want so desperately, that level of trust, he likes me, but i just want a bird that's a little more engaged. now granted i love the fact that he's happy to waddle around and explore every inch of the room instead of constantly yammering for my attention i'd really like a bird i can hang out with and playgames with rather than one who takes off on me and seems to always feel under threat. now i know that I can't have my cake and eat it too lol but any ideas?

thanx, i'll try it (i know WHAt i have to do, it's just applying it!) he's just really nervous and shaky around me, (even when he bows his head for skritches he's usually pretty tense) although he clearly likes me (runs over for skritches when he is in his cage if i offer my finger thru the bars or if i'm not really paying attention or if i'm sitting on the floor whistling to him while reading a book and not really making eye contact he will climb down and waddle towards me as long as i don't look at him) but yes, i'm very happy with his new happy sense of self, now just if i could make him a little more trusting/tame!

well both my birds sit on my shoulder no problem and if the little guy is snuggly, hey y not? that being said, there is some truth to what the vet says. a parrot is a relatively unpredictable creature once they aren't babies any more. think about if you want a grown up parrot who can and might turn and lash out at you because he is angry at you, or is acting out because he can't reach somebody he's mad at etc near such a tender part of your anatomy. that big ole beak is right about level with your eyes. if this scares you, start training the little guy to stay down now, because as with dogs, consistency from day one is essential. is not fair to let him do something as a baby then start changing rules on him as he grows. one way i've read about to avoid agression on the shoulder while still alowing the bird up there is for YOU to place him there, not him deciding to scamper up there. this puts you in control. YOU decide when he sits on YOUR shoulder, near YOUR face, not him and you decide when you want him to get off. hope that helps. oh right, i forgot, to prevent him from scampering up there on your shoulder, tilt your arm so it's as vertical as you can make it while still allowing him to perch comfortably on your hand. good luck!

well, if he really likes the carrots, use those. i think the mistake you are making is giving him a whole carrot. my dog training experience dictates you never give the animal such large peice he actually has to take time to chew it all and eat it. a tiny portion your grey can instantly gobble is more effective (plus more motivating to focus on you and continue doing what you ask because he only gets a teaser taste). also, remove that item from your grey's diet so it's even more effective because it's something he loves but never gets. also try some variety, mebbe pick two or three treats so your grey is motivated to keep going (after all, yes, sunflower seeds r good, but after the first twenty they lose their appeal). keep the portion to about the size of a half a penny or even smaller than give him a good big chunk when the session's over. good luck!

hey guys, srry i haven't posted 4 ever, life's been.. well u know how it is. good news, took jacko to the vet, and surprise, he weighed in at 347 grams. she said he was in fantastic physical condition and honestly told me that she had no reason to put him thru all the blood testing etc and that his picking was probably behavioural. got a new cage 2 for both of them (avian adventures double vista cage), and altho it's smaller than what he's used to he's plucking less and seems much more active and comfortable in his new home. needless to say, i'm thrilled! :woohoo: that said, i'm confused. jacko's suddenly went from being decently sweet and tame to running from me (he still loves head scratches but runs away if i say 'up!' or go to touch him). now's there's two schools of thought here too, nurturing guidance a la sally blanchard and don't make him do anything he doesn't want to do. how can i regain his trust/build it without turning him into a little spoiled brat and being a little tyrant? after all, he's eight years old now and plently capable of being a little !@#$% and deciding that he's the one in control.... any tips? ps. i know i'm never supposed to be agressive but how in the world are you supposed to 'push your hand into his belly and get him to step up even if he doesn't want to' etc without seeming mean on the parrot's part? seems that it he sqwaks and takes off i should back off but then again it just reinforces the pattern and doesn't solve the problem...

well, mr. spock, in theory i know you're absolutely right buuut the question is now, can i move faster than the grey lol... he won't let me stand behind him unless he's facing me...

well MrSpock, tried what you said and success, the water gets right in there! Much thanx to you! now, any tips for getting water down into the skin and feathers on the back/neck/shoulder area? that's his biggest problem.

lol, probably, i can't even begin to imagine what i spent on oil for that door... or how many calories i burned scrambling for that darn cellphone either... or how silly i felt when i looked over and realized what exactly was ringing(and it wasn't the phone lol)... really, SFsailor? My 'tiel outscreams my TAG hands down... you should be thankful your too is so quiet:P just thought of this, but if i get my new bird, obviously they're going to the vet... what should i get done test wise and how much will that cost me approx in canadian, anyone know?

lol, hell my neighbours are probably under the impression i have a very big loud dog. Jacko barks (inside dog and outside dog), growls and whines. also he'd make a fantastic sound effects techie cuz he does a squeaky door noise everytime you reach for the doorknob! anyway yeah, i'm probably going to get another TAG... now comes the hard part, the waiting 'till i can . still debating whether to get a baby or a rescue, on one hand i'd like the experience of raisibng a grey and avoiding the feather issues, on the other hand i'm a big softie and love to help any creature in need (jacko's been frustrating but still very rewarding when i see him continue to grow and overcome his past with every day.)

fantastic Tari, that was nice. and it's true, people say 'it's just a bird', but if they only knew! case in point, my friend recently became a parrotlet mom and whereas she used to roll her eyes at me she now knows it's definetly NOT 'just a bird'!

all right, thanx guys, went to the local pet store and shopped around (a little dusky conure stole my heart but he was already sold!) i've come to the conclusion that another timneh is the best way to go, they're larger birds, quiet (relatively ) and i love their quirky little personalities. i suppose i should start another topic for this but anyway... regarding the 'tiel, he screams when i leave the room and as such is muucch louder than you'd ever expect a 'tiel to be! obviously i might not need to worry about a new bird's noise level if the 'tiel gets me kicked out of the apt. first! the grey used to be like that until i was training a dog with seperation anxiety in the same room and i would close the door and leave for a bit and praise the dog when i returned if he was quiet. ironically it worked for the grey! he still will whistle to me when i open the door to leave but is quiet after that while the 'tiel continues to scream, what should i do?

okay, thanx guys. i guess i'll just have to make the pilgrimage downtown (i have mobility issues and don't drive as well). by the way, can you take birds on a bus? sorry lol, i wasn't trying to make the problems sound all complex and dramatic, i've just been very frustrated lately, i can hear the distinct noise his beak makes when he plucks and is gnawing off feathers. i usually leave the room when he plucks so that way i can't hear it and get frustrated and he can't feed off the energy. if the plucking is an established habit and a vice of his, how can i break it?

Oops, sorry MrSpock, forgot to answer your question. i use the gel and dilute it with water because that's all i can find right now (i'm still looking though). my local pet shop has a few 'bird bath' formulas available, would these work? also, i know that because i'm not soaking him down to the skin the aloe is pretty useless, but it's hard. although he will sit and let the water fall on him he doesn't flap his wings or anything so the water doesn't get underneath his wings etc. usually altho rarely he will flap around Amazon-style and have a bath, sunlight seems to be a trigger. i've tried a dish but he isn't willing. i tried once to actually lift his wings and such to get water underneath there but it damages our bond so i don't do it. any ideas?

okay, wait let me elaborate. i don't mean bitter apple, i would never think of putting the actual trademarked 'bitter apple' stuff on a bird, i know it is harmful. however, i kno that if i was dilligent and was able to supervise him all day i could distract him and break his habit eventually. But, i'm out of the house for 8 hrs a day and in which time he plucks to his heart's content. The product i was considering is sold under 'better bitters', is alcohol-free and formulated for birds. Also, the avian vets in my region are extremely few, i think there is only two in the whole province that i know of. also, i don't drive and obviously i'm not about to clamber onto the bus and subway with the birds, so will a regular vet do?

all right, i'm sorry because i kno that this topic has been dealt with already probably somewhere in the forums but my pc is refusing to cooperate with the search forum option and i need a quick reply to this. jacko is a plucker. he's been one for at least as long as i've had him, probably more (2 yrs+). of course the standard advice with a bird like him is distract him, bathe him frequently and teach him other things to do. okay, well, been there done that. he is now bathed daily (with aloe vera in the water), get 3 hrs of out of cae attention from me, and has currently 7 toys in his cage which are a variety of puzzle/chewable/noise/foraging toys and loves to play. i've discovered certain triggers of it (his cage being covered) and fixed it all. BUT despite all this he still plucks. a vet visit will be as soon as i can manage it. but then there is dealing with the underlying habit which is my biggest obstacle. he loves to play but also likes to pluck and will interrupt his playing to go and have a good plucking session and then go back to playing. rattling a newspaper etc to distract him just makes him pluck harder (i don't give any eye/vocal etc/ contact when i do it either). so my question is using this 'bitter apple' spray available for birds. can i use it? should i use it? everything else has not succeeded and i need to break his habit. i've heard mixed reviews about this spray with some saying try it and others saying it's worthless and may actually increase the plucking. also, how often and when should i apply it? should i wash him off every night and apply a fresh coat after his morning bath or what? thanx

i think your bird's a-ok, and it's probably just a knocked out blood feather like everyone else has said. i own a plucker and trust me, there'd be at least a few ripped out feathers, bald spots and raggedy plumage where he's been chewing if he was. THAT SAID, you should DEFINETLY start bathing that bird, or you will be risking him possibly starting a feather-plucking habit. it's normal not for him to like it, he's never really experienced it before, just remember to hold the sprayer down and away from him, squirting the water up into the air so it falls on him like rain. go slow and gradually, offering pelnty of praise, run some rainfall-like sounds while you do it (shower etc.), it might help. good luck!

lol, well, i guess then there's no clear answer! oh well lol... i guess this rules out that Galah cockatoo i was looking at (heard they're much quieter and more independant than the other species). i'm not worried about the twice daily loud periods at dawn and dusk because my grey and 'tiel do this already. the electus i've thought about, but being that i think my grey was bullied by a big amazon for a while in his past i'm hestitant to bring another large green bird into the house. so that rules out the male. the females are beautiful but i've not heard good things about them personality wise, some people reporting that they can be aggressive even as little babies! i know sometimes the female can be more docile depending on the subspecies but i don't think the people at the pet store would even know what susbspecies the bird would be. hmmm... oh well... i'm not moving for a couple of months so i've got plenty of time to think about it!

if i wanted another large bird but was considering something other than a grey what could i look into? only must-have is aprtment friendly. also, are cockatoos honestly as needy as everyone makes them out to be or is it because we've spoiled these birds rotten so badly for so long that everyone thinks they can't be left alone?

hey guys, i just spent 4 hours on my back automechanic style scrubbing the TAG's cage (I HATE THAT CAGE SOOOO MUCH!!) whilst i was down there, being peppered with bits of food and whatnot and the grey no doubt laughing at me in my little blue showercap, i remembered a passage from Anne Wolter's book on greys that suggested using sand as a substrate. and i had a EUREAKA there's a better way! moment. i would think this would be easier to maintain, (sort of like a cat's litter box) and more environmentally friendly. I was thinking of having two quantities of sand, interchanging and washing them weekly. BUUT i know that the book is old, about three decades (the same age as that darn cage!) so am hesitant to try it. does anybody have any experience using sand as a substrate, and what type of sand should i use??

well, if you ask me it depends on the bird. my 'tiel has no problems and actually is calmer if his cage is xcovered at night. in the TAG however, it seems to increase his plucking so i don't anymore (altho i think becuz of his past he associates being covered in his current cage with punishment). also, mebbe some birds are unnerved by hearing things moving outside their cage without being able to see anything. so try it with your grey, but the most important thing is to have quiet and darkness for them to sleep, not a cover. even if you cover them, if the room isn't quiet or dark they're not sleeping. hope that helps!