TinyTimneh

there may be something underlying... it's entirely possible and i think there might be. but the local birdie vet is frustratingly stupid... and is of no help, she actually made me feel like it was all in my head as i was trying to show her all the spots he picks and she basically shrugged and said 'bah, he's a grey, it's normal, it's habit, they're nervous, nothing you can do'. i've never been so frustrated with a person in my life! but i'm hoping when i go back it will be another one of the staff who might be a little more sympathetic, and I WILL be running every blood test and etc that is possible. behaviourally i've tried all i can on my own but have found the only behaviourist around and will be contacting her as soon as I can afford it. this is a quick fix for right now.

I did not want it to come to this but I'm seriously wondering if I should, the reason for this is because his picking habit is so specific, in that it's only in these spots and only new feather growth. in watching him i've noticed it's as if he thinks this new growth shouldn't be there or something, as if he's gotten so used to being bald in those spots he's determined to keep it that way. plus by now it's also habit. so with that in mind should I get him a collar to see if he'll stop mangling his feathers once they've grown in and are no longer 'new and not supposed to be there'. IT would also help to break the habit because he couldn't physically engage in it. Actually, i'm looking to make him a sort of protective sweater/skirt thing instead of a collar if I can figuring it'll be less irritating to him (it looks like this: http://www.landofvos.com/diy/diy_projects.html#featherfashions) Am I headed in the right direction here or should I forget this idea?

all right then, I guess not lol. (actually i hate creepy crawlies too but i was willing to do it if there was some benefit or enjoyment for my birds).

Yes, lol, believe or not I am willing to risk the flinging of critters by a TAG who is mortified I might even consider feeding him this. That said, can I and should I feed my Grey insects once in a while as a supplement. Obviously, there'd be no crickets or anything, but if i could get my hands on some type of freeze-dried or fresh live worms, what type of worms? I've heard some horror stories of mealworms chewing through a bird's crop so that kinda puts me off it but i'm still wondering if maybe it would be a healthy snack. The bird guy at the petstore whom knows me quite well (nothing like having a conversation about the tastes of various pellet brands with various bewildered surburbanites staring at you as if you're nuts !) suggested silkworms.

lol, my bad for the obscurity darth_mint, i meant the skin smoothes out like that after I apply the aloe gel, but if i do not it returns to being kinda wrinkly, i've tried mixing the gel with water and it just ends up really slimy and he and i don't like it, he looks all slimy and greasy and if anything he has to pay even more attention trying to set his feathers right. I will however, try the plant. not much of a green thumb tho lol! but i will ask the vet about hormones because i think this may be part of the problem with him, i'm also getting two fo my three birds DNA sexed, (jacko and the linnie Altair) and all are getting microchipped, as well as the battery of test i'm going to run on the TAG and going to get the tiel's poop checked out (she maintaining weight, eating well and looks healthy, no fluffling so I'm not rushing).

wow... geez, that's pretty extreme. umm.. hmm well i guess as long as she is only snapping the feathers and not ripping the entire thing out it keeps her safe from skin infections. humidity and bathing, check her diet and try to think of something that has changed besides the move. like judy said, a complete workup at the vet as well. because the grey only started plucking months after the move i do not think the move in itself caused this or else she would've began plucking soon after you moved. the fact that she does this so aggresively even surrounded by people she loves when she's on a nice open perch and such would make me think there is a medical problem more than a behavioural one. good luck

unfortunately i've had no luck in finding aloe vera spray so i wouldn't know, although i do apply the gell to his bald spots, i notcied a change in the appearance of the skin afterwards, it went from being wrinkly to very smooth. as for mites it is doubtful, at this point in time if there was anything of the sort (especially blood mites *shudders*) it would've transfered to my other two birds and... ewww.. me. his beak and facial patch and legs all look okay, i give him a once over daily and see no problems. i suppose i could always check though, i'm thinking i might start turning the humidifier off at night, i seem to be waking up at the same odd times since i installed it so i think it's waking him and me up at the same time too.

hey all, jacko's amount of plucking is fluctuating right now but is much improved from what it was. it is picking up again but i know this is because he is stressed by the new food (zupreem fruitblend) and the new humidifier i installed (it odes make a low droning noise when it comes on but it is not so disruptive that it will disrupt sleep once they're accustomed to it (it is set as high as it will go, 55% humidity). altho the vet is convinced that it is simply behavioural and an established habit, i just can't shake the feeling that there may be a chronic, non-lethal condition underlying, along with the behavioural. here's what i noticed: he plucks an approximately dollar-coin size spot from the underside spot of each wing just over his thighs, and only down/new feather growth. he appears to leave contours and established feathers alone, unless severly stressed or in the midst of an agressive plucking episode. he also plucks along the tops of his wings and where his back meets his neck, but only down/new feather growth (so you wouldn't notice the completely bald spot unless he raises his contours. in extreme cases where he is bored, lonely, under-bathed or whatnot he will extend this plucking behaviour to the underside of his wings from his shoulders to about two inches from where his tail starts. he plucks when he is frustrated, not getting his way or when frightened or nervous (and he is a fairly nervous bird) he plucks at night randomly, he plucks, chews agressively then shakes out his feathers and once he is content with whatever motivates him to do this he settles down to sleep again. he also plucks aggressively when he wakes up first thing, despite having food/water available and all his toys. the other time he plucks is when i am away with all this info, which tests do you think i should run?<br><br>Post edited by: TinyTimneh, at: 2008/08/10 05:39

hm, maybe i'll go pick some up tomrrow or something to that effect. oh, btw, this is.. hmm.. day two or three of his hunger strike. i've cut back on his amount of seeds but still won't touch the tropican pellets whatseover, i even tried soaking them in fruit juice that he loves, no luck (although he might of eaten about half yesterday morning after the previous day and a half or so of no food). he's munching a little on the cheerios and shreddies i put in but mostly holds out for the seeds. which is worrisome because he's given no more than five or six in a day. I'm going to go pick up some more of that beak appetit that he likes to see if i can get him to eat the pellets again just to finish off the bag before i go get the new brand. up until that point where i have the beak appetit, should i give in? i've got a bag of premium budgie mix with no sunflower and added vitamins, at least it might be healthier than just sunflower. also, when he was actively eating pellets all he ate was 2 tablespoons worth, this seems like too little, way too little especially when i read what other people's birds eat. however, he was capable of devouring the 1/4 quarter cup amounr if not more when he came to mne on a seed diet. so i guess i'm now realizing that he never really was converted rather he ate pellets that he found distasteful to keep from starving and revolted as soon as seeds/something tastier came along in sufficient qualities... darn, ifeel bad now... hopefully the second time around i can get him onto pellets for good without having to pull the whole 'sunflower seeds anonymous' scenario where he'll eat healthy provided he never tastes seeds again.<br><br>Post edited by: TinyTimneh, at: 2008/08/08 02:41

sounds like a good plan, lovemygreys, thanks alot

There are always certain birds that can't be given certain perches (Jacko for example will treat a rope perch like a toy and destroy it in a couple hours), but that said your birds need these perches. Instead of buying expensive perches at the store, make your own from pesticide free bird safe trees (check listing of toxic/safe woods and how to prepare them). Btw are you referring to those hard manzanita perches??? if you are, wow, that's a pretty determined birdy you got there, most would rather chew something easier. if they're the long smooth cylindrical ones these are dowels and made of a wood that's not unlike the one on a toy so basically it's just another big toy for your bird, offering plenty of wooden toys and easy shreddables while replacing your current perches with manzanita ones may solve your problem. unfortunately though, chewing on perches is a nautral, healthy parrot behaviour so really, it's just gonna be another one of those wonderful little parroty inconviences we've all got to live with lol.

it's not powdery though, it's actual flakes and really really looks like someone with a case of dandruff when i scratch him and he always seems to have pinfeathers that are too thick/hard to help him open.

hey all, just thought you guys might wanna check this out. was doing a comparison of bird foods, (considering switching my birds from Tropican to another food, i feel bad, yes it's no artifical colours, preservatives but it's also no flavour.) looked at the zupreem, found it lacking.. (i mean, read the ingfedrients... it's not too much different from what i give them now. and my tropican costs me 10.00 tax included for about 2 pounds, whereas the same size zupreem bag is easily twenty bucks or more tax in.) anyway so doing some searching and came across a brand called totally organics (top bird pellets), (its only a few bucks more for the same size bag as i have now) looks kinda like bunny food so yes not too appetizing but the ingredient list blew me away. it's almost too good to be true... like i'm waiting for either it to be a lie or not real. here's the link: http://totallyorganics.com/ingredients.php imagine, there's no by-product this or corn meal that, (and no peanuts, soya beans or wheat!)..

i've been noticing something with jacko more lately, but i've always kinda felt maybe something was off. his skin is always flaky, it's been this way since i had him. if i rub his head it looks like he's got dandruff or something and he's always been slow to molt, i've never noticed it, unlike my other two, who have their yearly molts and i notice. at first i panicked and thought he was majorly sick, but the vet checked him out and gave him a clean bill of health. his feathers look fine, aren't malformed or anything (the spots he chews are a little ragged, but they're all nice and straight and smooth and grey, his tail feathers are a nice blood red too--- he's one unusually vibrantly colored TAG). I know greys are a powder bird but this is isn't like my other powder bird the tiel who actually sometimes leaves a dust mark on my shirt, although his feathers feel about the same). he's not acting strangely, still plays and whistles and eats (i mean yes, technically he's not eating his pellets but you sohlud see him come running for seeds!) the skin on his feet is very thick and there's almost like a white layer of dead skin on them (they change colour to dark brown-grey after he's been given a bath)and i often hear him scratching himself with his feet. is it just dry skin from dry air and maybe some long-term effect of his previous diet of seeds at his other home? if a get a humidifier, is there any tips to make sure it doesn't get all fungusy etc? and in the meantime, what DIY methods can i use to increase ambient humidity other than frequent bathing-- without things getting moudly and gross?

having a slight problem with my TAg i've never had before.... although Jacko technically eats a good diet of tropican pellets, i really wish i could put him on a more varied and interesting diet. i want to do this because he has started to turn up his nose at pellets if he has access to other things, so really the only way to get him to gobble those pellets is to give him nothing but, and that's not fair... kinda like forcing a kid to eat brussel sprouts by feeding him nothing else. i want him to be able to eat some seeds but also eat a good diet. actually, upon having to taste these pellets to tempt the tiel a while back i don't blame him for forgoing the pellets, they're bland and pretty gross. (case in point when i bought some beak appetit 'cinnamon sunrise' to mix with his pellets he practically inhaled it) Does anyone have any mixes that will provide a good diet i can prep on the weekend to serve throughout the week for my birds, preferably that i can mix with pellets (jacko is a plucker so although i'd love to buy some of those flavoured pellets i don't in case it is a food issue). i am currently planning my schedule for college so i can schedule an extra hour or two to serve it and clean up and give everyone new toys and baths before i leave. oh, forgot to mention, can i substitue nuts for something else-- allergies in the house. also, in my area, i cannot get harrisons or any other the other fancier brands with ordering and shipping. however, all of the hagen line and zupreem are readily available to me.<br><br>Post edited by: TinyTimneh, at: 2008/08/07 03:38

hmmm... i don't remember Jacko liking pumpkin seeds at all, lol in fact the first time i went to visit him i notived he had carefully picked all the pumpkin seeds out of his seed mix and thrown them on the floor. But I wonder if he'd eat raisins... he luvs grapes... maybe dried fruit is the way to go

in light of your circumstances (and i'm very sorry to hear that your uncle in-law has cancer), you do not have to feel guilty at all. you have no control over these things that happen. as for the previous outing from 1 pm saturday to 1 am sunday, when you think about it, your grey was probably sleeping a large part of the time and most of us with school or jobs are out of the house for about eight hours a day anyway so the eight hours awake without you is no problem (plus he has the cat and if you checked in on them he's not technically alone) and for the rest of that time he was probably fast asleep. don't sweat it. plus, it's not like this happens all the time, so with the right toys and enrichment the bird will barely notice you are leaving, and you should start acclimating your bird to spend periods alone regardles of if any type of scenario like this will be happening again, it is vital for you and him that he learn he doesn't need you around 24/7. I hope your uncle in-law recovers.

hey all, i really want to switch to a healthier treat than sunflower seeds for Jacko, or more likely at least have a couple of varieties of treats for him. I use them in his foraging toys to keep him busy and for training but I hate the fact he eats soo many. Obviously I couldn't put fresh food in his toys because it would spoil over the time i'm away during the day, plus it would just get all goopy and gross in the toys. I adore watching him root around to find his seeds and I know that in moderation they are a good supplement, but it's beginning to get to the point where he will overlook his pellets to eat the sunflower seeds exclusively. here's the catch. I cannot use nuts. There's allergies in the household and although she grew up in a house with nuts etc i just don't want to take the risk (trust me, i'm missing peanut butter very, very much), i suppose I could always ask her but what could I use besides nuts for a small, easy-to-feed food for training sessions and stuffing foraging toys?

this may sound silly but have you tried eating them with your grey? if your grey has been eating nothing but seeds his/her whole life she may not realize they're edible. maybe if you eat a few (they don't taste too bad, kind of tasteless actually) in front of her and make a big fuss about how yummy they are maybe your bird will be tempted. also, is there some other bird, person or animal in the house the grey views as a rival? get them to eat (or pretend to eat) the pellets and make a big fuss over them when they do. lastly, maybe you could hand them to her as if they were a treat from your fingers, even if she just grabs them to throw them, praise her for taking/playing with/exploring the pellets. good luck!

same here at my house. at first it thought maybe it was a grey thing... this urge for culinary creativeness , but i've noticed it might be because of the pellets. When I first bought my tiel she'd been weaned onto seeds and her water dish (aside for when she pooped in it) was spotless. Now, because she eats tropican pellets (they smell so good lol) it's always soupy.

hnoestly, i've no trouble at all either. all three of my birds are pretty eager bathers. Most parrots, given time, will accept baths, it's a natural instinct. if your bird hates bathing (the tiel was a good example of this) back off for a couple months. wait for a really hot day or a molt, then, take him out of the cage and away from it (some birds just won't tolerate getting wet in their houses) take him into wherever it is you want to bathe them, (i use the bathroom, gets nice and humid plus no water to clean up) place them on a stand and holding the mister up and back, mist them gently so it falls over them. praise and repreat. if it gets to a point where they really begin to protest, back off, tell them how good they were and return them to their playstand/cage. I really don't believe that anyone putting their birds in the sink are setting themselves up for success. Think about it, if you're a bird and you suddenly get plunked in this steep-sided hole full of water... no doubt frightening to the bird. just stick with the mister. some grey will do the whole crazy wet bird dance and flap around (my TAG does this in his cage, not outside of it) but most greys don't really bathe like other birds and it seems most just kinda like to sit there and just let the water fall on them. and i think if the bird is just sitting there calmly and relaxed while you mist him, don't push it. he's having a bath and enjoying himself, just maybe not the way we expect.

i think it depends soley on the character of your bird, although the 'terrible twos' and puberty does increase your chances of getting bit. judy, you are very lucky! i have a relatively 'soft mouth' grey myself (get bitten more by the female tiel!) and they are a treat! that said, you probably will never get mangled like some of the others, but there will be at least one good bite in store for you over the next 60 years ! I've already got mine and a weird little cyclops smiley face (lol well, that's wat it looks like, a smiley face minus one eyeball) scar on my left hand to prove it. (it didn't actually bleed though, that was the weird thing)

to continue guys, the reason i'm bringing this up is many of you will say call the SPCA or something... the kicker is.. I can't. Even if I did, nothing will get done. I live in a country with a 115-year old anti-cruelty law that is woefully ineffective and to further complicate the problem the province in which I reside is especially lax and thus a haven for puppy mills and such. The local SPCA technically can go after these horrible people... but never does due to a lack of manpower and budgeting. To give you a scenario.. out west in (alberta i think) some years ago, a man tied a dog to a tree and beat him to death with a bat. because the vet found the dog died instantly after the first blow, and thus 'did not suffer', the horrible person walked. no charge, no nothing. Anti-cruelty is a joke in this country... especially in this province... i believe only something like 1% of anti-cruelty cases get 'resolved' in this country....

srry about the ranting about to follow guys but i just... argh... it's despicable. here's the scenario: last week, out in a surburban area not far from where my grandparents live and I waltzed into a mall, needing bird food. Now, there's always been a pet store in this mall that even as a child made my skin crawl. It's just overcrowded, dirty and a lot of the poor critters within are obviously sick and/ or unhappy. I thought maybe, nearly a decade later, it might've changed.... long story short, it hasn't. It's just as foul-smelling and saddening as it was ten years ago. Only difference is, then I was a little girl with no money to spend, now I am not. I went in and did my rounds to check up on all the animals (habit, I do it at every pet store I go to), the fish weren't too bad, the critters were sad (nearly a foot long guinea pig in a foot wide plexiglass octagon for example) dogs and cats were packed and crowded, cage stacked upon cage. The whole store's just dingy. BUT THE BIRDS... ugh. Every bird in the place, regardless of species, was put into those 'vision' budgie cages with at least one other bird. All were quiet with ruffled feathers and some with obvious sores (one finch's back was practically naked). Except for this little male tiel who was just singing his heart out and dancing away all by his lonesome. He came over to me when I walked by and we had a little whistling match for a bit and I really, really wanted to save him and get him out of there... but I can't. I do not have time, money or space for another fid and with the sanitary issues that would mean some major strict quarantine and some major possible vet bills. I just hate these scenarios.

oh also, busere, btw: although i do not have kids of my own, i do have a similar scenario to yours. my half-brother is now three and my grey despises him, reacting much the same way as your quaker does. however, if your quaker is clipped and in his cage or on a playstand located away from your son there shouldn't be a problem really, aside from your son's fear, but if your son has been bitten sounds like the bird has had the opportunity to bite him... i don't want to risk offending you but, if the bird was acting so aggressively why were the two close enough that your son could be bitten? also, maybe you could get your son to feed the quaker some sort of long-range treat (like a strip of carrot or sprig of millet) through the bars so the quaker can associate him with good things and your son can begin to learn that maybe the bird isn't so bad because although he is holding the food, his fingers are located far away from the beak and he is in no danger of a bite. and if that fails, i agree you are doing the right thing. obviously both of them living under the same roof is stress and unhappiness for all and of course, birds get over and move on from being rehomed, children don't. i think the only way some people might blast you on this forum is if the scenario was you adopted your son and simultaneously got rid of all your birds without them ever having shown agression. and that isn't the case at all.