Dave007

What's happening to you isn't uncommon. Many people who have very young birds haven't yet seen the variety and depths of a young parrot's changing personality. As they get older, they start doing different types of unattractive things which can be unintentionally caused by the owner. People think that the biting problem was their fault. Untrue. You say that you're following a schedule that both you and partner do. I'm referring to taking him out of his cage to step up. You say that your partner has no trouble doing this ( putting hand in cage) but you do. If you're taking him from the inner part of the cage, it may be time to first have him out of the cage which the bird will do. Why you but not him? A bird can develop different ways of dealing with things. Your bird is growing up and he's experiencing new things he can do. At that age, some of those things aren't pleasent. No one can tell you why it's happening but at that age, there's definitely gonna be changes happening. Next month it may be your partner who gets bitten. There's gonna be many other changes that'll happen because of his age and those changes won't have anything to do with biting. ***I went away and tried again a few minutes later, she did the same thing.*** Go away for more than a few minutes, hang around and watch to see if his interest and curiousity in you changes. Let him show that he want's to be held. After a while, some greys don't like being petted as they get older. You'll find that your grey will be much less cuddlier as it ages which is it's natural personality. Many people buy greys not knowing that the wonderful time they had with the baby grey will change. Greys are aloof, many times they wanna be left alone. They're the type of parrot that will entertain itself with no oudside coaxing. At one point, greys especially, will act differently towards different members of the family. I'll give you an example here using my own birds --all adults. I have a grey who will fly over to me while I'm watching TV , he'll get deep into my lap and want his head and neck rubbed. I do it and when I try to go to another part of his body, he'll show his annoyance by biting. The same bird will go over to my wife and want her to rubb other parts of him but if she tries the neck and head, he'll do the same thing. Why? I can't answer that but I can tell you that once upon a time years ago that type of thing never happened. My timneh--he loves sherbet. If I have a bowl of it in my lap, he won't eat it, tries to push the bowl away and if I push it closer and closer, he'll bite me. If I give that same bowl to my wife, he'll try to eat the contents of the bowl. If she pulls the bowl away, he'll chase the bowl to get more and if he doesn't, he gets into a bad mood. Why this happens? I can't answer that either. Right now, you won't be able to change a bird's natural habits except by suggestions that begin with perches, treats, soft talking, etc. It may or may not work but right now, his new likes and dislikes have to be respected without a person forcing the bird to do something that he no longer finds attractive. Put no time limits concerning the possible reverse changes because it may not happen. Many people here who have young birds are gonna be very surprised at the personality change that'll happen as the grey gets old. An adult grey is definitely not *a cuddley* parrot as it grows. That's why there's a permanent thread on the board concerning body language

How old is Happy?

I'm gonna try to send it to you by Email. Let me know if it works, ok? If it does, you'll love it I'll read her post in a little while

That's just part of what she can show you as far as capabilies go. If your bird lands on the arm or hand, simply twist your hand/ arm around as if you were turning a door knob. Not to fast, just enough for her to feel less secure while on the hand/arm. Do this as long as she does it and eventually, she'll stop the biting. Making the bird unsteady as far as gripping makes the bird immediately stop biting. She'll soon learn. If she flies to the shoulder and does this type of thing to the neck/clothing/face/jewelry, then it's time not to let the bird on the shoulder anymore. That's a habit they won't stop.

It's not a problem. She's just fussy. She may like the angle. Did she ever complain to you about it? Did she scold you and tell you to stop annoying her? Did she threaten you and tell you **or else there's gonna be problems ?**

Some of that has to do with habits, likes, dislikes that he developed a long time ago. Concerning the fruits/veggies, he probably developed a dislike for those things long before you got him. Many times, it's hard to make a bird like what it doesn't like after trying it out in the past. Of course, you can try different veggies, different ways of preparing them, different ways to feed them but if he simply has a dislike for those things, that's the way it's gonna be and you really shouldn't worry about it. He's lasted for 17 yrs already. I don't know what his diet is now. Concerning the plucking. You didn't say whether he just started plucking after you got him or whether he was plucking before you got him. If he's been doing it for a long time, it's probably chronic ( won't stop) or it could be acute ( will eventually stop--how long? can't say) This is an excellent product for many plucking/chewing birds--go to browser Type in AVITEC.COM On the left, look for PLUCKING/SCREAMING---click on it Third picture from left ( spray and jar in picture) click on it there's 3 choices 1---premixed bottle 2--small jar, powder in it (8 oz) 3--large jar, powder in it (16 oz) ------- Get either 8 oz or 16 oz jar with powder in it. Stay away from premixed bottle 1 rounded teaspoon powder to 8 oz room temp water in a sprayer. Thoroughly shake until all the powder is uncaked and disolved. Heavily soak your bird down with a mister once a day. Don't wash off. If any remains in the sprayer, use it on any other birds sitting around if you have any. Discard what remains at the end of the day.

First off, don't take the egg away. Quickly taking the egg away will only stimulate her to lay another.If she shows interest, she'll keep it with herself. Leave the egg alone for about 25 to 30 days or until she completely loses interest. If there was anything in the cage that resembled a nesting area, remove it. If the egg is already in a nesting area with her, leave it alone. She'll eventually lose interest because it's an infertile egg. If the egg is on the bottom of the cage abd she knocks it around and cracks it, take it out. Sometimes this happens with greys and many other species of birds even though there's no mate.

An albino is a completely white bird. The only thing you may have seen on this board could have been a grey with a white tail or other parts that were white. That's a bird who's minus a special color gene. There's also greys that have excessive red genes. If the bottom photo is what you're talking about, that bird was not bred to look like that. That's an accident of nature. If there was a grey ( or greys) that looked like that white one and were commercially available, the bird would cost approx $150,000. Recently, gene manipulation was done on greys for a number of years in order to produce one completely red grey. It was successful and the bird now costs $175,000. By the way, the white grey isn't an albino. It still has a red tail.

Cuddling makes a grey do low huffing sounds, low cooing sounds. They also try to snuggle. Usually, that happens when a bird is being held and petted. You're doing the right thing by not touching certain sexual areas because the sounds get more rapid and the bird tries to snuggle closer so it's difficult to take the hand away. Doing that makes a bird sexually excited but it has nothing to do with hormonrs. A very young bird (8 mts and older will do the same thing) Continually rubbing sexual areas and prematurly stopping will eventually make a bird bite because he doesn't wanna the person to stop. Basically, it's excitment that feels good. It's not hormonal. A bird gets hormonal when they reach mating age and at that time, there's a chance that a bird will bite if it doesn't wanna be touched at all. This is very obvious in females. In the hormonal stage, females can be much more aggressive than males who are also hormonal.

Solar lighting. That usually means solar paneling which replaces roofs on homes. The lighting you're thinking about is called Full Spectrum Lighting which has to do with the broad rays of light that come from the bulb. Below is a small sample of places that sell it. There's many more but you would be doing yourself a favor by first reading up on this type of indoor bird lighting which imitates natural sun. www.theparrotstore.com/fuspli.html www.parrotsparrotsparrots.com/full-spectrum-lights.html www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/article.cfm?aid=1015 www.avianweb.com/lighting.html

There is no such thing as a commercially available type of grey that's an albino unless there's something seriously wrong in the genes that control color. You may have been thinking about a different species of parrot that you heard about or had seen.

Yes, it's safe to use. Ceramic items are never coated with teflon.

"""It is strange - he will talk A LOT to me - especially when it is just us two but striclty NO TOUCHING... I am ok with this but can anyone give us any tips on how to gain his trust."""" Every aspect of dealing with a bird that was previously owned and is older may take longer than a baby bird. That includes, food, playing, coming out of a cage, trusting new people, accepting new things etc. The reason is because the bird came to you with things it picked up in the other home. I've already told you about food and that'll be a start. Trusting is a long process and that happens when a bird is completely comfortable with you and that can take some time. You'll need to let the bird settle in. Not only to his new area but also to the new people, daily habits, new environment, new time schedules that your family does etc. Eventually, you'll see an obvious interest in you. It's curiousity. Some pre owned birds don't make a complete transition to new owners or a new home. You'll need to be patient. You can't put a time line on when you think better results should start happening. All birds are different from each other, even the same species. """"""PS he does not get monkey nuts any more have managed to replace them with walnuts and Brazil nuts (not much better but at least they have vitamin powder on them??? """"" The vitamins that have to do with nuts-------The vitamins are located in the nuts. There is no powder that contains vitamins on the nuts. To get the vitamins, the bird has to eat the nuts. If you eat chicken, bake or roast one ( no frying) and afterward, take the wings and scrug them in water until all the grease is off. Give your bird the bones that have the knuckles on either side. That provides calcium and many like them. They're safe and actually good for the bird. If you eat turkey, do the same thing but the bone may be a bit too big for your bird to hold it while eating it.

***If your bird is the messy type that drops things in the water, it'll need to be changed more frequently.*** I was referring to your bird dropping or soaking his food in the water.

If you intend to follow the vet's method, then you'll need to remember to change the water every day. If your bird is the messy type that drops things in the water, it'll need to be changed more frequently. More than likely, some of the antibiotic won't be taken in by the bird because they don't drink much water but follow the vet's instructions. As far as the weaning to fruits and veggies---Fruits aren't important. They don't supply much. Most fruits are acidic so you should concentrate on the veggies. You'll need to buy a variety of green veggies, firm if possible, and feed them raw. If that doesn't work try steaming them. Most of the time, not all the different types of vegetables will be accepted by the bird which isn't unusual. Put them in a separate bowl and just put the bowl in without other food. Leave them there for 2 to 3 hrs. And then remove because veggies can get soggy. Replace with a good parrot mix that has all types of seeds in them. Also add a very small amount of pellets. That'll provide variety. If any peanuts are in the bag, remove. All parrot mix has sunflower seed and it doesn't hurt them. Your bird needs to have food around all day because they eat differently than people. Add almonds and hazel nuts to the others he likes. As far as buying veggies, get a good variety. Many companies put out bags of mixed frozen veggies that you can try.

**** the question i want to ask is will they take to being hand fed from 6 weeks instead of three..**** They'll take handfeeding at any age until they're naturally weaned. At that age, that's all they can eat. They'll take to it instantly. You'll leave them with the parents for 6 weeks? GREAT! It's the best thing you can do. Some breeders leave the chicks with the parents for 3 weeks and they also take to the formula very quickly.

It doesn't matter whether it's organic or not. Many birds don't like pellets or certain brands of pellets. You can't force a parrot to eat something it doesn't want. So, if you're so worried about his health because he won't eat pellets, then stop worrying. Varieties of different natural veggies is what gives a bird good health. Certain amounts and varieties of good parrot mix are beneficial. Nuts like almonds, walnuts, hazel nuts are packed with vitamins. Some people use these items like treats when they should really be given on a more regular basis with no strings attached. Some human foods are good. Chicken bones are good etc etc. Read up on the hundreds of people who can't get their bird to eat pellets. They're still healthy. Barbara **but birds in the wild don't have access to pellets, and they don't live as long*** You're right. They don't live as long in the wild but it has nothing to do with them not having access to pellets. In the wild they have access to just about everything they could possibly need for good health. Greys and other parrots are scavengers. They get lots of vitamins eating insects,grubs, left over food that other animals have eaten, left over material that's fallen from trees, leaves that have vitamins in them, different other seeds that aren't even in any commercial parrot mixes and countless other things. They eat a special type of nut that's surrounded by an oil that's packed with vitamins. They eat fruits that aren't touched by other animals. For years, people have been trying to imitate many things that birds eat in the wild. Pellets aren't one of them. They've been flavored, given fruity odors, shapes, sizes and yet so many still won't eat them and that worries many people because of all the hype that's been given out concerning pellets. Parrots did extremely well way before pellets were invented. In the wild, a grey's average lifespan is only about 30 to 35 yrs and the reason is because of flock conditions, weather extremes, injuries, body deformaties, not being able to keep up with the flock, age, predators etc. Great food that they need? There's plenty of that. At home, the lifespan of a captive grey is between 40 to 50 yrs old but I seriously doubt that you've ever seen a grey that old that's a pet. A 40 to 50 yr old grey is hardly ever seen even if it's in an ideal situation. When a person says that they have a grey that's truly 35 yrs old, people's eyes open up in wonder.

Your bird may need to be in the company of other birds. Vets and bird sitters will take the bird and put it around other birds, each caged sparately. The sitter needs to be checked out for cleanliness and living arrangements. You would need to supply food that your bird likes and some require that you use your own cage. Being in the company of other parrots serves as a distraction. Plucking isn't uncommon when it has to do with stress. The bird knows that a member of the family isn't there and feels alone. Greys are very well known to pluck their feathers when all sorts of stresses and other problems exist. Some vets also give bird sitting services.

dawsum Tell me something---is there any particular reason that you do such a thing? It works like magic???? What magic? What are you trying to accomplish?

***are they going to be too wild? **** I'm not sure of that wild you're referring to? All parrots are wild. The adults are wild. The chicks are wild and any parrot in between is wild. They will always remain wild throughout their lives even if they live in a house. ******Can anyone tell me if im going to have a bigggg problem with this,******* Who's gonna feed them while you're away? The chicks need to be given the exact amount of formula just like they were getting before you leave ( the same time schedule must be used). Is there any particular reason why you remove babies at that very young age? Do you have the parents? The longer the chicks stay with the parents, the better developed they are. If you're thinking about putting the chicks back with the parents, there's a big chance that they'll ignore the chicks.

Bad idea. Pellets aren't as great as you would think. It's simply a bunch of hype. Lots of artificial ingredients. Yes, a portion is fine. Adding more pellets in a different dish is one way to add. They need parrot mix--seeds, nuts, veggies, fruits once in a while. They can survive quite well without pellets as thousands of greys have done for years and years. Close your eyes for a minute and think of the tree lined african jungle where the greys are. It's a sunny morning and all the greys are now awake and squawking. It's time to eat. The signal goes out to fly and get food. They all leave. SO, do you think they're gonna fly past their normal food and start looking for that famous *pellet tree*?

Just an add on-----all of the extremely aggressive behavior, squawking, screeching, smashing toys, banging them around, getting bruised or scratched or slightly swollen spots on the face while battling those toys are all perfectly normal. It looks pretty scary but the worse thing you can do is try to stop it. He'll bite you. When a bird is finished, they normally relax and sometimes nap. That's one of their ways of playing and it'll continue for a long time. They're venting and expending energy. Many times, when nap or bed time comes along, it's not unusual to see a bird snuggled up to one of those same toys/bells he just tried to *destroy*

If you're not familar with long broken flight feathers, go to a vet to have it taken care of. Usually, the feather will die out and fall off or the bird usually pulls it out when he wants or the bird puts the feather back in place. Either way, the feather will die. If it is actually a wing feather and it's broken near the bird's body you should see blood. If not, either the feather isn't a wing feather or it's a feather that has no blood supply in it. Don't cut the feather because you may make it bleed and you would have to use blood stopper on the bird so if it's bothering you, go to the vet.

**But with so many things to worry about,** Actually, I don't understand what you mean---what things to worry about? Does it concern birds or yourself? ****but reading about what people have to write about their Greys and how they are around them really makes me want to have one. Also adding to the fact that how much i adore creatures of feather. **** Yes, thats very true. Most people will speak about their success stories. What doesn't get mentioned much is the stories of what didn't turn out to be a success. This is a board that's mostly composed of people who gotten baby birds and they constantly speak about the great things that are happening as the birds get older. Many people here, by their own admission, find it very upsetting when those very young cuddly birds age and lose that cuddliness. A grey isn't a cuddly bird after a certain age. Many people are shocked when one day, their bird bites them for what seems to be not a good reason. People usually blame themselves. They're not aware that *poncho" is starting to grow up and acting more and more like a parrot. Many people were never told that the bird would change. It's not the person's fault though. Some people don't realize that parrots--all parrots-- are wild animals and will remain wild throughout their lives even if kept as a pet. Parrots are totally different than domestic animals. ***I'm sure its a delicate balance between good and bad.*** yes, very delicate. ***what about the joys of having a Grey**** Well, you've already said that you've read about so many joys of owning a parrot here so you've covered that. There's so many things that are attached to a person wanting to know about owning a parrot of any type. Life style, other people around, environment, amount of time to spend with a bird, what a person realizes that they have to alter in their lifestyle etc etc. I can't possibly answer things I don't know about you. You can set up a scenario but that won't help either. I'm not trying to insult you here. As a matter of fact, I'm not trying to insult you anywhere but I'll say this---I love and have always loved birds since childhood. It didn't matter what color they were, whether they were small or large, whether they were wild animals that only came into my backyard. I've dea;lt with all types of parrots through the years. I have a number of greys, all from different situations. All are adults. All have different personalilities. It's been difficult but I've dealt with difficult birds for years. ***But putting it honestly, considering what i had written prior to your comment, *** First off, I applaud your honesty. It was well written and it also showed the feelings you have. A true piece of explanation. It showed that you want to have love and a good life with a grey or any other parrot. It also showed me that you're inexperienced with parrots which many people don't like to do. By you doing this, I can be honest with you. ****what would be your honest opinion? *** My honest opinion is yes, you can own one as long as you honestly stay connected to people who will help you with process such as the people here. All here try to help constantly. But you do need to ask questions as they pop into your head and not feel that the question is minor. The only question that's minor is the one that's never asked. Your main situation would require that you get a young bird who is fully weaned meaning that the bird only eats parrot food, veggies, fruit etc--no formula. The second thing and maybe the most difficult is that you need to be able to have a choice when picking one out. Knowing only one person who has 1 bird for sale isn't a good idea. Most people won't do that. The bird is not a baby and you don't know what the bird's past was. You need to shop around. It's difficult but it'w worth it. So, it's up to you. This is the only advice I wanna give because it covers many things