Dave007

You may not like this reply but it needs to be said. """"""Today was different.... he was trying to take a piece off my faucet(ongoing battle) I went to remove him like usual and he refused step up and was flying back and forth between the sink and the curtain rod. I needed to remove him from the bathroom ( SON WAS CLEANING IT AND USING PRODUCTS) so I tried to stay calm and kept going for the step up. He bit the SHIT outta me drew blood for the first time.I walked away for a min, came back went for a step up NOPE, I got a stick and set him in another room and keep going in to check if he has calmed down ( about every 5 min) he is not calming down the second I walk in he puffs and clicks""""""" You'll have to realize that birds don't belong in certain areas where something special is going on. Today it was cleaning--that may mean soaps and other cleaning products. Tomorrow it could be the kitchen---lots of heat, gas, scalding areas. The next day it could be where fine clothing or jewelry is or fine furniture is located. The next day it could be your ears. Of course all of this is hypothetical. """""my faucet(ongoing battle)"""""" It shouldn't be. If you see him doing something that's destructive going on with an item, that means he doesn't belong there nor should he be allowed to touch the item ever. You were seriously bitten and he made you bleed. Do you really think he's sorry he did that? He did this to you in an area that he liked being in and you interupted that fun and joy of going from the sink to the curtain rod. No big deal to you but a very big deal for your bird hence the blood letting bite. Do you really think he was worrying about cleaning products in the room? """I got a stick and set him in another room and keep going in to check if he has calmed down ( about every 5 min) he is not calming down the second I walk in he puffs and clicks.""""" He should be put back in his cage not in another room, so he can calm down without you having to check him every 5 minutes. And he should remain there for quite a bit of time until whatever is going on has totally changed or stopped and he shouldn't be involved in anything that could involve chasing, retrieving, possible biting, interfering with any chore. """"""""my question is, What is the proper way to respond to this, what should my reaction be. I tried to let him calm it just wasnt happening.He is still PISSED 30 mins later and I think my behavior was same as I usually handle him. I feel very confused on how to deal with this.....""""""" You're putting some type of timing on his different types of aggression and that doesn't exist. He may break skin and be fine 5 minutes later or just do a little nipping and be aggressive for the next hour. Again, the cage is the place to be when he seriously bites you. You did something to provoke him into giving you a nasty bite. """""I personally can do anything with him, touch hmm anywhere, ANYTHING. He gets very mad though if I ask him not to do somthing and become obsessed. """"" """"ZZero is normally a very good boy"""" He may be a very good boy but that also sounds like a spoiled bird who's getting the upper hand in many areas and it needs to be stopped. There's more nipping and now he's breaking skin which will cause swelling ans sometimes, infection. You're the one that says he nips and you're the one that says that things *quickly turns into a battle of will* When you hear that clicking, a serious bite is gonna follow. I'm saying all of the above things because of one major reason-------- Your bird is getting older and any parrot that gets older is learning how to act like a more mature parrot which includes serious biting, obstinence, challenging and doing things it's now sure it can do with perfection.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2009/08/24 05:34

Grand Central Station Belgium SPEAKERS ON or if you cant view it, just put the link in your browser<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2009/08/23 23:51

2 days? It's gonna take her a lot longer than that to get used to new things. Your bird is in a strange place. You're not the only thing she has to get used to and the best place for that to happen is when the bird is inside the cage where it feels safest. No, you shouldn't leave the door open because if she tries to climb out and you try to put her back, she may just try to fly away and at 12 weeks, they don't know how to fly yet. Just like others have said, talk to her, do your daily chores around her, make sure she's in an area where she can see everything that's going on. It takes a while before a new baby bird will get used to new things so quickly.

Adopting a pre-owned parrot is a different thing and with it comes some difficulties and situations although the new owner who already has another older bird is able to understand what they're actually seeing in that parrot and are able to ease the pressure that the pre-owned parrot is going through. These parrots have usually lived in either one or a few homes in the past. With each home, the parrot develops habits that pertain to what's going on there. Parrots don't forget things very easily and when that parrot moves on to that next home he/she takes those habits with him/her. It's frequently referred to as 'baggage' which involves many aspects of the parrot's personality and habits and ways of thinking. The ideal adoption of a pre-owned parrot is getting one that has no 'baggage', but that's impossible. There is no such thing. First of all, the parrot is older and very sure of itself. The 'baggage can't be gotten rid of. Usually, a person that adopts a pre-owned parrot forfeits the experience of that parrot living and acting like a baby. Many people, be they experienced or inexperienced don't have a problem with that phase of ownership. The people who do have a problem are the ones that expect that experience. They don't get that experience. What they do see is an obvious amount of previous 'baggage' and they become disillusioned and many times, the parrot will soon be off to it's next home. The amount of 'baggage' that the parrot stores away when living in that home depends on how long the parrot has lived there. Part of that newly obtained 'baggage' are the personalities of all the different owners and the methods used to make the parrot conform at each home. Again I say, parrots don't forget and they have the natural ability to store away more and more situations. 'Slow and easy' makes for the best understanding of thatpre owned parrot. Rules, regulations, normal family life and getting used all the people in that family along with a new environment is somewhat easy for a pre owned parrot to accept but it does take time. All parrots have certain traits that nature has instilled in them. The key word here is 'socialize' and socializing that pre owned parrot into it's new environment makes for a well rounded secure pet, especially when the whole family is involved. People do run into problems with baby parrots but those problems can be resolved pretty easily with the help of other people who have or have had those same problems with their baby parrots. Watching the bird's habits, letting him see your family habits, his new environment will eventually allow a bird to relax and accept what's going on. How friendly he is only something you know. Bonding is very possible as long as you don't expect the type of bonding that people want from a baby bird. Another thing, a 12 yr old bird isn't an old bird and there's plenty of room for the bird to accept new things and new people. An important thing to do is to observe the attitude of your other bird towards the grey. If it's aggressive, keep them apart while dealing with the grey. If they take a liking to each other, break out a bottle of champagne and have a drink. Hope some of this helps<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2009/08/23 05:55

That's not *tired*. Your bird needs a little rest ( 10 minutes) after each lesson. If your bird is clipped, it will need an even longer rest. If your bird is new to all of this flight training, she needs time to absorb each lesson and reassure herself that it's not gonna hurt. Slow it down a bit.

Yes it is normal and will lessen as you continue the lessons. Describe what you mean by *tired*.

That regurgitation is a part of a bonding process. Breeding greys will do it and so will pet birds that are being kept in the same cage and to their owners too. Pet greys do it to each other even when they're not at the mature breeding age. Just like humans who are tongue kissing to finalize that hot and heavy going steady process. Breeders do it less after they've had a couple of successful clutches. At that point it's male to female simply to feed chicks. """"""Or do both sexes play both parts?""""" What's that mean? Male deciding to be a female and female deciding to be a male??

I agree with Dan. There's gotta be something more to this story. Too many explanations and questions and opinions have been left out.

In a room that has birds that give off constant dander, an air purifier really doesn't work that well. The filter gets much dirtier extremely quickly in a bird room. The best things that work are strong exhaust fans that pull away the dust that has spread all over the place. Air purifiers work well with dust that stays airborne. That usually goes on in rooms that have no birds. That type of dust is microscopic and will eventually work it's way to a purifier. Bird dander isn't the same thing. It's heavy, falls down quickly and is thicker that normal room dust. An exhaust fan is much stronger and has the ability to pull in dander that's quite a distance from the machine. The type of dander in a bird room never gets purified because birds constantly throw it off. A strong exhaust fan will take in the dander much better if the birds are in an enclosed room or else the machine will also be pulling in air from other areas. Air purifirs usually come with an automatic shut off feature but that feature won't work very well if dust is constantly being taken in as soon as as the lighter part of dander finally gets close enough to a purifier. All bird dander is extremely heavier than normal airborne dust that stays in the air. That's why there's so much dander in a room that has a purifier in it. A purifier only works when dust is within 3 ft of the intake area. So,. an exhaust fan will work much better if it's near a window where the dander will go out of. Even with an exhaust fan, you'll see the bird's cagehaving a light layer of dander on it.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2009/08/20 19:46

It's necessary to always leave a bird almost alone in the beginning so that he can get used to things that are new to him. You're new to him. Everything else is new to him. His cage and toys are new to him. Quite a bit of talking to him is necessary. Many greys talk after everyone has left the room. It has nothing to do with friendliness. Let him show a genuine interest in starting to explore things in the cage and eventually outside of the cage. You'll eventually be something that will attract him. If you have other people living there, have them do the same thing. Put his cage in the middle of what's going on all the time so he can see what the habits of the house are. It isn't necessary to give special foods in order to learn how to adjust to the new place he lives in. AS others have said2 days isnm't enough time to make judgements on anything. The whole process will takke at least a couple of weeks, not days.

caitb2007 Well, palm oil isn't liked by lots of birds. Some do, many don't. Many birds have to be fooled into eating it. In order to put it on food that they normally eat but won't eat if there's oil on it, it has to be put into a consistency that can be put on to the food they do enjoy. Pellets are a good example--very liquidy, thin palm oil can be dripped on to pellets and the pellets will absorb the oil and the birds will eat the pellets. They get the benefits of the pellets and oil all at the same time. Now there's loads of very young birds here who may have taken to it because they were very young but there's older birds who haven't had it before and have no intentions of accepting it. In the wild, palm nuts are surrounded by this oil which is on the thin side because the nuts have been in the sun all the time thereby softening the oil that surrounds the nut. The bird has to eat the oil to get to the nut. But for anyone who's bird accepts it without heating it, that's fine. The method I use works perfectly. None of my birds like palm oil but I do know they're getting it whether they like it or not. The other day, someone on one of the boards asked what the ingredients were that benefit the birds. It's vitamin A and Vitamin E and will not stop any pluckers from continuing that habit.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2009/08/17 20:07

Like everyone said, you'll just have to start at the beginning all over again but one thing you shouldn't do is leave it on for 2 weeks at a time. You need to take it off and on every day until he's totally used to having you do that. Then you can slowly progress to leaving it on for 2 days at a time etc etc. That does take a while. Sometimes, taking a harness off after 2 weeks can be just as irritating as when you started putting it on in the beginning.

Palm oil isn't supposed to be fed by hand. It's usually put on something that the bird likes to eat or it's put in a dish mixed in with other food that the bird eats. As far a gooy and sticky, the palm oil has to be heated until it's the consistency of olive oil Palm oil before being heated to the proper consistency Palm oil after being heated to proper consistency. Notice the change in color after being heated. That;s done by putting a certain amount in an old seasoning bottle, heating in microwave for 30 seconds and letting it cool to room temp before being used. On the jar it should tell you what to do in order to use it which is sticking the whole jar in running hot water until internals melt.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2009/08/16 21:10

Babygirl On 8/12/09 I took the time to fully explain all about pairs of breeder birds and now I feel my explanation was a total waste of time. I told you they were not adoptable but I guess you refused to believe me. I told you that areas that adopt out neglected birds that needed rehoming won't adopt out breeders. I told you about breeder's personalities. I told you what happens when they no longer breed. I told you how carefully adoption centers screen people before adopting out needy birds that only need rehoming. Those birds were pets at one time. I told you what would happen if you had a breeding pair of birds in your possession. I told you about their serious aggression. I told you that there was a major difference between breeders and neglected pet birds which are really the ones that need rehoming. I told you what a person has to go through if they owned breeder pairs of birds. I told you how careful adoption centers are when adopting out neglected birds. Adoption centers will charge a person money to take the birds. It's similar to buying a young bird except that the price is lower. Some parrot shelters make up contracts have to be signed allowing the adoption centers to come to the new owner's house approx every 6 mts for approx 1 yr to check out how the birds are doing. In their contract, it states that they have a right to take the birds back if there's problems. Now you speak of humane societies. Humane societies adopt out domestic animals that are in need of new homes. That means 4 legged animals such as dogs and cats. Humane societies don't hire people simply because they have no experience in handling wild animals such as parrots. They also don't have the facilities for parrots in their centers. Humane societies are overloaded with 4 legged animals that need homes. The only place to get neglected, former pet parrots are in avian rescue/adoption centers. They don't adopt out breeder birds that were never pets in the first place. They don't adopt out 4 legged creatures, just birds. At one time all of these avian adoption/rescue centers didn't exist. They were slowly built and the expense was high. They're now located in many places and the price of taking care of all these birds is high and it's what causes them to charge money for the birds. What I don't understand is why you want to ignore neglected birds that need homes as opposed to breeders that really don't care where they live. Breeders personalities won't change. Neglected bird's personalities will change and most people get great satisfaction in giving neglected birds another chance to have a secure, safe place to live again no matter what problems they have?? Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2009/08/16 20:43<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2009/08/16 22:26

There's 2 ways of doing this and you'll be perfectly satisfied.--have the vet carefully remove the band but tell him that all the info on the band should remain. Then put the band away. many people do this and and many people never remove them. One of my quakers has one and years ago it was the only way to identify important info. He still has it and flies all over the place, wire grating, mesh grating etc. Never a problem. One of my greys has one and it simply would be too traumatic for him to have it removed. Everything I've done with him over the laast 4 years would go down the drain. He's learning how to fly into a small metal grating and he's had no problems. So, the choice is yours. Just make sure you keep that band in a safe place.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2009/08/13 20:41

A few weeks vs 5 yrs with another family and the bird formed an atachment to the man. Your bird still finds men attractive. Plus you do all the dirty work. I disagree with the sufggetion of your husband being out of sight al the time so that you can form a relationship. That's like saying that wbhen I was growing up, my mom did all the washing, cooking, giving me everything I needed for for school. I really should appreciate it but 2x a week, my uncle came over with 3 different kinds of candy bars just for me. Who's my favorite?? Actually, your husband should share in all the feeding, cleaning and everything else that seems like a chore to you. Eventually, it's 2 people doing the exact same thing. There's a possible chance that the bird will react as if there's actually 1 person doing the whole thing. Do it erractically. Confuse the bird. Give him treats and don't let the husband give him treats. Tell the husband to give treats that the bird doesn't like but you should give treats that he does like. Confuse the bird. You shouldrealize that there will never be an equal relationship with you and the bird as opposed to your husband and the bird. My greys are just like that. One of them loves to perch on my arm, but if I try tio pet him, he'll get irritated. my wife gets the bird and he'll only sit on her knee and he wants her to pet him. I've got another grey who loves ice cream or sherbet or cereal. I can sit down with it in my hand and he'll never come to it. Mywife sits down with the same items in the same bowl and he instantly flies over to stick his face in it. Why they do it, I don't know but I've had my best success by confusing them.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2009/08/13 19:59

How long have you had your bird?

L & M BIRD LEG BANDS This is the most common place to purchase leg bands but what info would you put on it? The truest info that's on a leg band is one that's put on by a breeder before the bird is 10 to 14 days after birth. That's a permanent band. It can only be removed by a vet or vet technition.

""""it wouldn't break my heart to have a noncuddly bird but it does make me sad to see animals neglected by being treated as disposalbe so a breeder pare is what I want."""" I commend you for wanting to take in a neglected bird that hasn't been treated very well. But the birds you're referring to and looking for are located in bird shelters/adoption/rescue centers. They don't adopt out breeders. Most parrots cuddly or uncuddly won't crawl into bed with you unless you train it to do that. Most parrots who are older and aren't affecionate are usually the types of birds that were caged too much, not given proper attention, were not given some freedom from a cage, had small amounts of human contact. There is a major difference between breeders and neglected birds. Neglected birds are located in bird shelters/adoption/rescue centers and pairs of breeders aren't. With breeders, you'll not only get uncuddly types of birds, you'll get extremely aggressive birds who don't want human contact and won't hesitate to seriously bite to let you know very quickly but even those birds need some freedom. People who own breeders also provide areas where they have freedom during the year. They don't breed all year long. Breeders are sold in different catagories-- 1--bonded ( no chicks--but have totally accepted each other.) 2--proven ( had clutches but eggs were infertile) 3--bonded and proven ( had successful clutches, will sit, will feed.) There is no advertising that says that breeder pairs are affectionate, except to each other. There's different prices for each catagory. In another post you wanna know where the retired breeders go. Many of the owners who retire their birds simply keep them. They also go to aviaries that take in wild and semi-wild birds. Certain breeders go to zoo reserves. Most breeders aren't disposable. One other thing--if this is your first experience with medium sized parrots who may or may not be neglected ( meaning an older parrot with ingrained habits), you'll also need to look at shelter policies. They're extremely careful and scrutinize people who may eventually adopt their birds.

""""""but when he flies to the top of the cupboard or somewhere else she can't reach from her wheelchair, she can't reach him. so her solution is to leave him in the cage all the time so he can't fly too high for her to reach, instead of clipping his wings. in this case i think clipping the wings is a better solution than leaving him in his cage 24/7. i've even offered to help her if she can't get him down. i just don't understand...and it upsets me!"""""""""" Clipping really wouldn't help cause the bird would still find it's way back up to any high area but it may be harder for the bird to fly back because of shortened wings. Her solution may be the reverse. Leave the cage door open and put tempting things in the cage that would draw the bird back to the cage.

Sun conure--lovebirds Got good sound proofing?

More than likely he was acting friendlier with you because he was in a familar environment with the owner sround. Many birds can be trusting in that area. Now the owner isn't around, the environment is new, daily habits of you are different and basically he has to learn to deal with you through bravery. He pushed your hand away? Great. Some rehomed greys will bite. Greys come in different tones and shades of grey color. There are no hybrid greys other than the ones that owners intentionally mess around with their coloration. Any grey that has some speckles of red feathering on other parts of the body other than the tail simply have an excess of a the color gene that was handed down from the parents or grandparents.<br><br>Post edited by: Dave007, at: 2009/08/12 00:58

I do use the seed catchers in my cages but definitely not for seed. Hmmm, birds do like to stand on tops and doors of cages so there needs to be a catcher's mitt if you know what I mean.

"""You also seem to loose sight of the fact that when dealing with living creatures every case is different. You of all people should know that no two birds are the same so generalisations cannot be made""" You don't know me at all. If they want to, i'll let others comment on the above statements concerning me.

""""During supper I still feed him from my mouth like a chick. However if that is what he needs at the moment to feel secure then so be it. He needs to feel secure with us and himself."""" Really?? Secure? Get real! I got news for you. Your bird isn't a chick and it doesn't need you giving him food from your mouth to his to feel secure. He never told you that. You're just assuming that he loves you doing that and it's making him feel secure. That's unnatural and lots of people have been doing that and lots of people have paid the price in spades. Lips are so soft and nice and easy to bite through. At least those people came forward and said that they now realize that that sweet young cuddly grey decided to actually be a grey and bite. A scenario--Maybe you also would be one of those people would will let your bird stay on your shoulder and let him bite your ear lobes and clothing and cheeks and bite jewelry and pull your hair a little simply because it's what he needs at the moment to make him feel happy and secure? And another thing buddy---concerning that public opinion stuff in your other post----lots of public opinion has helped lots of unknowning people here to finally enjoy living with a bird in their house. Plus, you're not the only one who owns birds that come from many homes. I'd love to see how you would have handled 2 of my preowned greys. One of them would have had you for chop suey. As far as pluckers/chewers/ goes, I've been very familar with those kinds of birds. As a matter of fact I own one and he came from a great family who treated him well, fed him well, had plenty of toys and the end result was that he didn't have one feather on his body. You couldn't tell what species he was. He does have those feathers now and it took more than 3 years to get him back to looking like a real life african grey. Unfortunately, he can't fly like my other greys do but he's real happy trying to fly. And he's also an adult like the rest of my greys. And as far as that wing clipping stuff, a huge amount of people now wanna know how long it's gonna take for those wings to grow back because they've seen the damage done. Study the personalities of greys and you'll see that there's a huge major difference in mentality between a clipped as opposed to an unclipped bird. They also wanna know how long it's gonna take for damaged wings to comeout evenly.