Dave007

I explained how it was done. I explained how long it took to get done. I explained the results of other species that do this and what can happen. I used macaws as an example. It's a known fact that the species shouldn't be tampered with because of many unknowns. This may not be important to you. ***As long as all the birds bred are properly cared for who cares which bird they are allowed to breed with? **** I care. AND no one can say what quality those birds were in order to get to that goal. ****Some would say he is shortening the lifespan of breed "A" while some would say he is lengthening the lifespan of breed "B"**** They're not breeds, they're called species This species is known as Congo African Grey and he shouldn't be lengthening or shortening the life span of any species of bird for appearance sake. Thousands of dollars were spent just to be the first kid on the block to do this. **"cup half full arguement". **** I believe that people should have a full cup of whatever and I believe that the cup should be full to the top with natural healthy ingredients. I've done my part. With the information supplied, it's now your time to further investigate this subject.

The bird's genes are affected. Messing around with a bird's genes isn't a good idea. Is it my opinion--yes. Is it a known fact --yes. Do avian vets recommend it--no. You'll have to ask those vets about that. Maybe I should have put the sentence below which is now bold in the right place ****The full age, temperament, personality of these birds was affected**** Mix a blue and gold macaw with a green wing macaw or mix a scarlet macaw with a military macaw or a blue and gold macaw with a green winged macaw or a military macaw with hyacinth macaw or blue and gold macaw with with a scarlet macaw etc etc. All of these different birds have different life spans, different personalities, different sizes, are either more sociable or less sociable, can get along with a family or not get along with a family. Mix all of these birds up, breed the offspring to other off spring and the results of what was done and in no way will the off spring remotely resemble the original male or female that was used. Also, some of those birds turn out to be mules. There's absolutely no way to know the results of all of the offspring so--------- ****** The full age, temperament, personality of these birds are affected***** And I'll say one other thing----I would find that completely red bird extremely appealing if it was done naturally by greys who are living in the wild but they don't. It was artifically done and hasn't served a single purpose or furthered any knowledge about greys other than the genes can be mixed and altered for esthetic reasons.

That video plus a couple of others from the same person have been around the net for a couple of years. The bird wasn't naturally born like that . It took about 10 to 14 yrs to get that result. It involved an extremely large amount of pairs of birds. It had to do with years of hybridization which isn't looked upon as a good thing because of many side effects birds like that can have. The full age, temperment, personality of these birds was affected.Theres a few other species of parrots that have gone through the same thing. There's too many beautiful parrots in this world that people can enjoy. In the wild, what the person did couldn't happen. On most bird boards, what he did isn't looked upon as being a good thing. It serves no purpose. And YES, the birds are definitely hybrids. Crossing different species of birds isn't possible and has nothing to do with hybridization. AND, the 2 other birds on the stand with the red one aren't the parents. They too are baby birds.

I know of a couple who purchased a house that wasn't lived in for 5 yrs. It had rodents and roaches. These people owned 2 dogs, 2 cats, 2 parrots ( cockatoo---macaw). After fumigation and 3 days of airing it out with fans ( exhaust) they went there and collected the dead rats and as many roaches as could be found. There was quite a few. Then they moved in and the dogs and cats had no problems whatsoever. As far as the birds, they also had a small room that could be closed and they put a small exhaust fan in it for a few hrs. They put the birds in that room for 2 more days. The birds were uncomfortable because they were in a small room and were very agitated. The 2 birds didn't like each other. Both were adults but both suffered no ill effects from the fumigation. After those 2 days, they were brought out, put into their permanent spot and the people kept the birds caged for 2 more days because they wanted to double check that they had found all the rats. They never had any problems other than that the birds were agitated because they didn't have their regular freedom. Fumigation was successful. I hope this may help. Birds suffered no ill effects. Fumigation was a heavy duty type of method used.

I don't think Judy has to be renamed. She was given a higher classification by being named Global Moderator a while back which says something about her value and contributions and talents. Her actions speak louder than words. It's not a good idea to start being individualistic in this area. Official names/titles are given out by the Administrators and all that needs to be done is understand and learn those classifications. Giving out individual classifications may cause problems with others who feel they should also be given special rankings or titles and problems may occur when requests are ignored or denied.

Never pluck. That's not true because many different things can cause a parrot to pluck whether they're flighted or not. Many birds who are clipped and need more assistance from owners in order to do everyday things may have a greater chance of plucking out of frustration. Long cage confinement of a flighted or clipped bird can cause plucking. Not paying any long term attention to a bird can cause plucking. Little activity by the bird cause plucking. Boredom can cause plucking and it doesn't matter if the bird if the bird is flighted or not. Constant nervousness or being a high strung bird can cause plucking. Allowing a bird to stay dirty and letting the skin dry out and become itchy can cause plucking on flighted or unflighted birds. Constant unexpected events can make a bird pluck but the flighted bird has a better chance of getting away from those unexpected things.Early weaning can cause plucking because of the lack of nutrition that the bird was supposed to get in the first place. There are other things too because there's 2 classifications of pluckers/chewers.

""""""Is Ana Grey average, overweight or small??""""""""""" She's extremely underweight. More than likely, she's suffering from a major incurable disease. I think you should enjoy her while you can because her time is almost up. Think about those good times in the past while things were really nice. Life was fun back then. Oh gee whiz, you said TAG. Well then, you have a small/medium bodied TAG who is at the proper weight. Small body----approx 275 to 300 grams ----Ana Grey Medium body---approx 290 to 315 grams Large body----approx 325 to 335 grams All those weights can vary a bit. My TAG is 321 grams when he's not having sex. At other times he burns a lot of energy.

It's been left out of this thread so I'll put it in. Before you get so involved concerning all the different things you wanna do as far as training, first and foremost, you should spend lots of time learning about the personality and attitudes of your new pre owned 13 yr old bird. If he's got habits or his own rules or a certain personality that you don't agree with but would like to change those things you should first know what you're dealing with. Dealing with a 13 yr old pre owned bird is definitely full of compromises. Learning about a 13 yr old parrot takes lots of time. LOTS of time. Knowing the nature of a parrot is important. A parrot is a wild animal but many can be kept as pets. They're still wild though and will always be wild. A cage is not a natural place to keep any parrot because they're wild. Of course, people who have parrots have no other place to put them except a cage. When a wild animal such as a parrot is released from that cage, the owner is doing the right thing because that parrot is closer to it's natural state of being wild. Being in a cage all the time has an adverse effect on the parrot. Training a parrot to go into a cage on command isn't natural because the parrot is being asked to revert back to a situation that goes against being wild. Any good training between an owner and his/her parrot always has to do with the parrot going from the cage to something else that doesn't affect his/her wild instinct. Not visa versa. A person can train a bird to go from the cage to an arm, hand, finger but the parrot is still free. No cage is involved. Training always involves a communication between the owner and the parrot and it involves freedom of the bird if that person is gonna succeed. Training never starts with the bird being in the cage other than having the parrot step onto a finger or hand in anticipation of being free. Actually, it's even hard to train a bird to come out of the cage on command through verbal language. A bird wanting to come out doesn't wait for a command. It waits for that door to be opened. That's why people let the birds in and out when it wants to do those things. Want the bird in the cage? Simply say *step up* and put him in the cage. A fire? I'd love to see a parrot act normal when surrounded or involved in any type of fire. Training a dog is easy. No big deal unless that dog has to be taught very special things or the person owning the dog has no cocept of owning a dog. A domestic dog is just that --domestic, and there's a level of being domestic that allows for easy training. Does that go for all domestic animals? Well, I bet that a cat can't trained to do the same simple things a dog can do and the reason is because the cat is still closer to being wild even though it's domestic. Can a wolf be trained even though it's a dog? I don't think so because that wolf is still totally wild. So, my point is that you need to look at a wild animal such as a parrot in a totally different way because you're dealing with an animal who will never lose the desire to be wild. Lots of rules and regulations just don't apply to parrots.

No PM necessary. Definitely, your bird hasn't settled in yet and it takes a while before an adolescent bird to do that. Parrots can go for long periods of time without food. They'll drink though. have you read anything about B&Gs yet. Is the bird in the same cage as before? The bird has to get used to a lot of things in the house besides you and when that happens, the bird will relax. Your bird is still very young so take baby steps with him. Let us know if you're having specific problems. If your bird is a biter, watch your fingers. Their bite can hurt alot. Luckily, you have one of the more well rounded types of macaw as far as personality and friendlness goes.

I made 2 new nest boxes to replace the old ones from last year. I thought the bluebirds weren't coming this year but they did. The bluebirds showed up and the chickadees too. I also got a surprise. Carolina Wrens showed up . Wasn't expecting them. Now I gotta build a new bluebird nest because the squirrels ruined it. All in all, everything's going along according to plan. Chickadee Parents with 6 eggs Chickadee waiting for Male who brings food Bluebird parents with 5 eggs Carolina Wren parents with 7 eggs First baby wren to leave nest

No, I'm afraid that if your bird is 6 mts or older, there's no splint that can fix it. The bone has formed in a certain direction and it's now permanent. Birds who have inward or outward splayed legs and feet usually have the problem corrected when they're 3 to 5 weeks old and even then, there's no guarantees. A vet wouldn't take the chance and do any type of drastic procedure to an adolescent or adult bird when the bird has already learned how to function very well with the misshapen foot. It's probably bothering you much more than it is the bird.

All parrots are wild animals and will remain so until they die. It doesn't matter whether they're kept as pets or not. If a parrot gets away, it'll usually keep on going until it has to land. As soon as he/she is strong enough, it continues it's journey. Where to? That can't be answered. They'll go anywhere they want and having the desire to come home doesn't exist once that wild nature of the bird kicks in which is usually instant. Like any other wild bird, it'll find places to go to and it'll instinctively know how to avoid human contact. That's the nature of all wild birds, softbilled or hookbilled. Many people do different things to lessen the chance that the bird will never be permanently lost. Unfortunately, the majority of times those things don't work well. Wing clipping, microchipping, special banding etc. The reason that many of these things don't work is because 1--the bird is never recovered 2--the bird is recovered but people don't make any effort whatsoever in trying to find the owner. This doesn't apply to everyone or every bird but lets put it this way---it's major news when a lost bird is actually recovered and the people who were involved in finding the bird DID make a concerted effort to seach out and find the owners so that the bird can be returned Is a parrot (especially a pet parrot) a wild bird? Look outside and watch all of the wild birds and watch their habits such as disappearing to nap during the day, acting very vocal in the morning before eating, listening to them in the early evening just before they finally retire for the night. You'll see that your parrot who's in the house and who has never been out of the house is doing the same things at approx the same time everyday just like the outside wild birds.

publically--typo.----------corrected spelling is publicly So, I guess were even. I'm so happy that you brought it to my attention.

Believe me, if your bird had a seizure, you'd know about it. Birds don't recover from seizures right away. They normally have to be put back in a cage, put on the bottom of the cage and be left alone until they get their mobility back which takes a while. Actually, flipping a bird on it's back isn't normal but doesn't cause problems if the bird likes it but you'll run into times where it won't happen exactly like it usually does. """"mere seconds passed but seemed like for ever as I touched his tummy gently, then stroked his head to get any sort of reaction, then turned him gently over, as I turned him over he flicked back into life and tootled off to get the nail file and blew a raspberry before flying back off into the sitting room as if nothing had happened."""" That's what it was---mere seconds. No seizures were involved. Birds don't fly immediately fly away after a seizure. If they did, they'd crash into something immediately. Why he did what he did, well there's no definite answer because some parrots do strange things but not all the time. Many people think that a parrot walking upside down on the inner roof of a cage is also scary.

""While Dave might classify me as unworthly since I bought all my fids within the last 20 months,"" Now, why would you say something like that? Did I ever tell you that what you did in 20 months was not the right thing to do or that you were Unworthily ( don't know what the word means) concerning what you did? I don't publically put down a person for what they did especially after the fact. Whatever a person does is their choice.

If anyone is shocked at people leaving, just go to the Members list and go down memory lane and check out the hundreds of people who were members but who are long gone. They came here, participated, got what they wanted and eventually faded away. This is probly one of the most common occurances on bird forums as well as loads of other forums that deal with a multitude of different subjects. Once in a while someone announced their departure. No big deal.

Cheerios is the first thing I introduce to baby chicks at about 5 weeks old. They push them around, try to bite them, play with them and finally, as a few more weeks pass, they finally start eating tiny bits. You could say that it's their first solid food. I use the multi colored cheerios and I've never had any problems with the cheerios. I've been doing it for years. They love the different colors.

Those clipped feathers are gonna die and fall out much sooner than a set of unclipped feathers which is good. It has to do with blood supply to the wings. Some clips cause irritations but those clips usually are chop jobs where the feathers were clipped much to close to the body in the first place. Many times, birds are uncomfortable with clipped feathers but it's not the norm for the stubby, scratchy ends to cause skin irritations. Feather mutilation--only if your bird has a constant habit of yanking out feathers for the smallest reasons plus if he was a mulittator, he'd be going after other feathers too. Usually, birds constantly preen those clipped feathers as well as other feathers and those clipped ones fall out quicker because your bird is helping it along as far as falling out. It really doesn't matter where the vet clips--they'll always be a stubby end to that feather.

To the person named FredGrey, nothing's perfect. There's people that're gonna say things without thinking about what they're actually saying nor will they give a damn about the end results. If you think that this has been the first time it's happened, you're wrong. It happens for different reasons in all of our sections ( boards) here. Much of the subject matter is totally different but it's offensive, nasty, insulting and it can cause many to get pissed off. A person is usually told to clean up their act but usually they don't so the next step is to reprimand that person knowing that the final step is to be banned but understand that the big bosses here aren't usually too quick with doing that. The most important thing here is that it's rare for it to happen. Maybe you wanna leave or maybe you wanna give it another shot. Just about everyone felt for you and your situation. It takes an awful lot to set Talon/Penny off to the point where she'll post such a long detailed explanation of things. She's a very laid back person. I really don't know anything that went on about what happened but even though you're only one person, others value the fact that you decided to be a member and it doesn't have anything to do with your experience with birds. So maybe, you'll reconsider??? It'll make others happy too.

""""""I can put my hand in her cage and she'll rub her head on me and push me to tickle her head, but she will not come out on my hand. """" She used to do just the opposite but now she won't? She's a different age now and developing new habits that she feels comfortable with. Greys never continue their baby sweetneess as they get older. The problem you have really isn't a problem at all. She'll step up for you when she's out of the cage so that means she's not afraid of stepping up on you. You know, it actually could be worse. Some birds, as they get older will not let a person put their hands in a cage without biting them even though they used to be the opposite. Your bird has developed a protective attitude with that cage and will only allow you to do limited things and that's a common thing for many parrots. Expect different changes as the bird gets older because she hasn't reached her full potential. Not to worry. I need to say one other thing though----letting any bird put his/ her head in your mouth can cause a bird to get ill because of the natural germs that are in your mouth plus you'll never know when your bird will decide to look at your tongue as a tasty morsel. A person can't get sick from a bird but a bird can get ill from a person. And, what's in your mouth is potentially toxic---example, saliva.

Birds don't lose their flight and tail feathers the way other feathers are lost. When they lose those flight and tail feathers, it has to do with lack of blood supply in each feather which has to happen in order for new ones to grow in. At that point, the feather falls off and another replaces it. It happens to flight and tail feathers all year long with no set time frame. So, they're not actually molting those feathers and most people don't usually save those feathers. Normal major molting usually occurs once or twice a year depending upon how dry the skin is. PS--nothing can be learned from those dead feathers other than that they may be chewed, cracked or broken. So, if you're having problems or need questions answered, post a picture of your bird and ask away.

Any type of pasta that has tomato sauce in it will make the droppings look like that. Droppings come out in many colors because of the diet that a bird eats. People who feed pellets will tell you that the droppings come out in various colors. Your bird's droppings will go back to the way they were in 2 days unless you continue to try changing him into italian.

""any ideas on how to gain his trust back "" Food has nothing to do with trust. I took the time to give you a very long list of things to do as far as your bird goes. Just about everything I spoke about had to do with trust. Someone asked if your bird was in a cage permanently for 9 to 10 yrs. You never answered that person so I just decided that it's what you meant and that's how I posted because I thought you had a very serious problem. I don't know your bird. I can only go by what you say.

I'm not really sure about what you meant but I'm gonna assume that your bird has been caged for 9 to 10 years without a lot of time out of the cage ( you'll correct me if I'm wrong). Some of the most serious problems arise with a parrot who's been cage bound for a long period of time. There are a lot of questions without answers when it comes to cage bound parrots, but here I will try to answer the ones I can. Most long term cage bound parrots can turn into birds that are truly frightened of the space and area outside of the cage, especially if they've been in that cage a long time. As far as the bird is concerned, it's his sanctuary. It is very common for a cage bound bird not to allow a human to put any part of their body into the cage, as this is the parrot's''s' safe place and will not be breached as long as the bird lives. In order to understand this behavior one should remember, the cage most closely resembles a nest for a wild parrot. The nest is the one place that the parrot can stop vigilance watching for predators Cage bound birds are often misunderstood and thought to be aggressive, when in reality the case is they live in fear when his/her home is disrupted. It takes many years for a cage bound parrot to turn into a happy cage bound parrot. When that happens, many of the normal relationships that a person can possibly have with a parrot lessen greatly.When you are dealing with a parrot in this condition it is extremely important to remember that the strange and other unwanted behaviors are generated by fear. You must, for the sake of the parrot, treat these as normal behaviors. Correcting them without correcting the underlying condition will accomplish nothing more than terrorizing the parrot. Obviously, you don't know the underlying reason which isn't your fault. It's my feeling that many years ago someone should have told you about all the different phases that a parrot ( any parrot) goes through starting out as a baby. All babies and adolelscent parrots crash into walls, furniture, windows, even the floor. You had good intentions. You didn't want him to get hurt. They usually don't get hurt. That's also the time when they learn how to fly with accuracy. That's the time when they build body strength, developing muscles. Your bird didn't get that opportunity. Instead, he was caged for a very long time and as he went through the natural phases of getting older, all of it happened inside a cage. If a bird goes through all of those phases in a cage, he'll get used to everything going on as long as he's in his safe area which is the cage. Eventually, flying isn't really important to him. How does a person treat a cage bound parrot? Treating a parrot who is terrified of coming out of its cage is often hard, and breaks many of the rules we are trained to live with when raising parrots. One of the most important things when working with parrots who aren't cage bound is to be the one to allow it out of its cage. With a cage bound bird you need to break this rule and many others as time goes on. Open the cage door, make the environment safe, and walk away. The very first step outside of that cage must be taken by the parrot, for the parrot's sake. Just as we are taught to confront our fears in order to overcome them, the parrot must confront the fear of being outside in order to learn to desire to be outside the cage. This process can take a long time. You may leave the door open for a month or more with the bird never venturing to stick so much as its beak outside the door, but in time the bird may come out, its natural instinct to interact with the world will win out over the fear. Your bird has 9/10 years of being in a safe place. Basically, he's happy there. Flying scares him. Handling him scares him. He has to develop his own safety net. Biting is part of him being frightened and he'll do anything to protect himself. Also, by being in a cage for so long, there was probably very little physical contact with you and the bird. Yes, you talked to him but they need a lot of physical contact. In order to assist the bird in coming out of his or her cage try to leave interesting items and treats on top of the cage, an area they can climb to easily. Some birds will eventually come out, grab the item, and run back to the cage, but the whole point is that they DID eventually come out of the cage. Once you find the bird outside of the cage a number of times (even if it climbs right back in upon seeing you), it is time to begin working more directly with the bird. Sit next to the cage, with the door open, and talk with the bird. Offer it treats from your fingers. He may not take them but most of the things he's possibly gonna do in the future are gonna take a very long time, even small things. Allow your bird to take them while still inside the cage. Another method that has good success is to sit progressively farther and farther from the cage as your bird gets braver and braver while continuing to talk and offering treats to the bird. Many birds will climb outside the cage to be closer (the natural flocking instinct) to you, some will climb down to the floor, some will walk across the floor closer to you. When doing this do not move your body as if to pick up the bird, allow him or her to come to you and go from you at will. Remember, you are teaching the bird that being outside the cage is pleasant and safe. It can also be helpful to move the cage into a location that makes it seem very safe to climb out. Try to put the cage with two walls behind It, situating it so that it sits in a corner. This again makes the cage seem more like a nest, and therefore it is very safe for the parrot. A parrot who feels safe is more likely to attempt to climb out of the cage than a parrot who is terrified. Never place a cage bound parrot,s cage out in the complete open. Parrots need at least one wall of the cage covered, a cage open to the room on all sides will not provide the same sense of security. Remember that getting a cage bound bird out is a long process. It involves a long commitment on your part. You must be committed to doing things as slowly as the parrot needs you to go, and to not giving up once you reach each milestone. Never think about time limits because it's gonna take time. Sure it's easy to say "Well, he comes out of the cage now, I'll leave it * alone* but you need to continue to work with the parrot. Once it is willing to come out of the cage, then you must begin the process of teaching the bird that humans are safe. Taming the bird is a whole other article. If you have questions, comments, always come to the board. Don't be afraid to talk about successes or failures. Understand that I'm not guaranteeing you that this will work and the main reason is that the guy that lives down the street may have a parrot who's in the same situation as yours and these methods may work for him but not for you OR that same guy may have a parrot where it won't work for him but it may work for you. All parrots are different and I'll say that your situation is difficult to overcome but it can be overcome but it's gonna take a lot of time and patience. In the mean time, understand that your bird isn't suffering in that cage. He's learned how to be safe and happy in that cage. Actually the situation is worse for you than it is for him. Good luck.