Dave007

Let me make a suggestion----others have done this on this board in the past. Instead of just you relating thing to your husband, why don't you ask him to come to the board and ask specific questions or just to air out his problems and frustrations. He doesn't have to be a member. He can use your username. All he has to do is tell people who he is and I guarantee you that he'll be just as welcome here as you were and people will be helpful and friendly. No one here is intentionally nasty. If they were, there are people here that will quickly dump them. We don't allow that so think about. May may be able to make him feel better. There's men and women here so there's always the man's point of view and the woman's point of view.

Girltron 'Yes, from the beginning you've inquired about many things and people have been quite helpful in whatever ways they can. I told you they would. So understand that many times, people make light of things at times to set up a more relaxed atmospere. You're not the first person who has had this problem and you won't be the last. many times, the help that's given works and other times it doesn't. The jokes about the husband were just that-jokes. I'll explain something else to you about pre owned parrots and the reason why people try to tell others to give things time with pre owned parrots. A pre owned parrot can go from house to house and not be given a chance to make a permanent relationship. It's the parrot that suffers. It's the parrot who changes when he's finally in a permanent home. Many people here have other types of parrots too. Most of them are from second and third homes. Different species has specific traits and some of those traits are unchangable and many of those birds need to be with someone who will put up with it. I have a couple of quakers and they simply squawk, but not all day. That's the way quakers are. They're commiunicating with me and the other birds in their natural tongue. So, I agree with others about possibly finding another home or returning it to the previous owner because other things will surface and they may be very annoying--or not, just like when he was overly affectionate with you. Some people will find that habit to be extremely nice. Others may not. He's trying to make a connection.

This machine has nothing to do with air conditioning. It works like any other appliance. The dust goes out the window. The window is the place that it's put in. Window is lifted about 12 to 15 inches--machine sits in any window and sucks out everything. Very simple and doesn't cost any more than any other fan. The only difference is that it takes the air and sucks it out. No big deal. The item is only 4 inches thick. Cleaning? just like you would any other fan. take off the front screen and wipe the blades off. Put screen back on. PS---now that I've completely read that link, I can see that it has many new features that mine doesn't have so lucky you if you buy it.

Most of the undesirable noises you hear will eventually lessen. Many noises they make are extremely nice. They have a variety of noises. Different parrots have different noises and in those noises, there's some that are unnatural and annoying to a person. You probably can't stop a bird who's testing out his complete vocabulary of noises. The same applies to nice noises. You can't stop a bird who's testing out his complete vocabulary of nice noises. It eventually lessens but how long it takes is how quickly the bird tires of doing that noise. All greys are different. Your most important thing here is relating to your husband about how in general, parrots are. There are exceptions in the parrot world. Cockatoos are naturally and extremely loud as well as macaws and conures and quakers. There's things that re gonna come up that will not agree with your husband but you shouldn't have the fear that your husband will immediately think about getting rid of the bird.

Actually, I feel just the opposite. In the pro contractor department of Home Depot ( my wife is a manager there) , that item is used to pull out all types of dust because of interior work that needs to be done in homes. It's an exremely popular item and does excellent work, and is very poewerful. much more so than any type of purifier. In a bird room, the air can't be purified. It can only be pulled out inclluding large and small particles and everything inbetween. There's large particles and small particles of dust all over the place. In the past, I've told countless people to pick up one of these items because of heavy duty paint odor and also dust. The item can cover a very large room or even 2 rooms . The mechanics are this---each fan can work at the same time or one can be shut off while the othe is working or both can work at the same time. It's put into a window and on;ly whatever is in the room can be pulled out. I have the exact same type of exhaust fan in my large bird room and it's extremely powerful. The mechanics of this item are very reliable and long lasting and extremely strong and no matter what store you buy them in, they will last a very long time. The one below is a different brand but exactly the same as in your link. No air can be pulled into the house unless the machine is reversed and put back into the window. Luckily, the price has finally decreased. This machine is extremely quiet. Drafts aren't needed. I also have one in my breeding room. This one is 15 yrs old. """risk of getting sick? """ Just the opposite. Good breathing is greatly increased.

I have to be blunt here. It may temporarily help a skin or an injury to the skin condition ( if he lets it stay on). But if your bird is a chronic plucker, your bird will start that plucking all over again when the collar is removed .Many times a collar has the reverse effect----it makes a bird more nervous and hyper than he already is. Most of the time, vets give a prescription ointment for scabs or overly scaly areas of the body. Also, you'll have to carefully look at the edges of the collar frequently because birds bite those areas, make them jagged and those edges could hurt him.

"""""I am just wondering is it normal to lose them once in awhile or not. I know I have seen a couple of red feathers from his tail here and there but it is not every day its been spread apart . """"" Yes, it's very normal to see that all year long. The flight and tail feathers don't all fall out at the same time. Your bird isn't molting. The flight and tail feathers fall out when the blood supply ceases in that particular feather/feathers. There's no way to tell when it's gonna happen other than to say it will happen. It also doesn't matter if the flight feathers are clipped or not but sometimes, clipped feathers die at a quicker rate than unclipped feathers.

reggieroo Yes, that's very true. Greys are one of the most natural whistlers in the parrot world. Just about every grey whistles. The last thing you need to do is encourage it. They'll whistle at sounds coming from a TV--music from CDs etc and any other thing that remotely sounds like whistles. They have favorite musical instruments they'll also whistle to.

In 2005, the worst epidemic of Avian Flu spread through quite a few countries. The US was heavily hit. When this happened, people who owned pet birds such as parrots and other species were frightened to death. There was never a message sent out as to what birds would get infected so people thought that wild parrots were also at risk. Parrots did not get Avian Flu. That flu only applied to all ground dwelling birds such as chickens, roosters, turkeys, pheasants,quail, ducks and other waterfowl and all other ground dwelling birds who were being raised for food consumption. When the flu spread, the sale of these items came to a halt in all areas where poultry was being raised. Importation came to a halt. Avian flu is transmitted through animals in areas such as places that harvested these animals for sale to retailers and wholesalers. Avian Flu was spread through infected feces, infected unine, infected animal feed, infected water and in all the areas that these birds ate from and walked in. The flu was also spread unintentionally by all of the people who worked there and were wearing large boots to walk through all of these things. They spread the infected matter all over the place. The recent outbreak of Swine Flu was spread in the exact same way. Besides pigs, hogs, the swine flu was also contracted by cows and horses and donkeys because they were around all of the infected products laying around. Their hay was infected. Some of the grasses that cows ate were also infected. During that time, there was only one reported death of a parrot and the reason was that the parrot lived in a huge area that these animals were raised in, namely a very large enclosed barn. He shared all of the food , stepped in fecal matter and ingested many items simply because the parrot was a scavenger as all are. Yes, you heard about that infamous Avian Flu back in 05 but you never heard that predatory birds, hookbill flock birds such as parrots, soft bill bird birds such as canaries, finches, budgies getting the flu. Sales of these birds were never halted. None of these pet type birds, hookbill and soft bill ( excluding predatory birds such as eagles--hawks--falcons, they're not pets)) were put into any type of quarantine. The flu was never spread by tree living and dwelling migratory birds no matter what country they lived in. Vets didn't give out warnings to parrot owners concerning the flu since it didn't apply. Free flying wild uncaptured predatory birds and flock prey birds such as parrots never contracted any flu nor was any migratory type birds accused of spreading any type of flu throughout any countries. The above is my short story about that past problem but I should say that it's not a good idea to take a parrot, put a short tether on it and decide to walk down the street with the bird on the ground to show off the bird. Streets and roads have the remnants of unine, feces, regurgitated stomach contents and other toxic items that come from other animals such as dogs and cats and other free running 4 legged animals. The birds were meant to fly or stay on a shoulder, not walked on the ground. Who knows what just walked on that same ground 30 minutes before?

Sorry Jayd but I gotta butt in here and give an extra bit of info. As far as consistancy, people who make their own formula get the mixture to a baby food thickness, so that's not a bad thing and as far as the 50 cc. * sorry, im making a mistake ive been giving them 50cc*, there is no mistake. if your birds are accepting it without spitting it up, continue that amount. There's no set amount at a certain age because all are different. You can't overfeed a bird. Some will accept more, some less at each feeding. I hope abundance feeding will be discussed here. With that type of feeding, there's no exact time in which a chick will wean. The birds tell you when they don't want a particular feeding. They simply turn their heads away or spit it up. With you being new to this, abundance feeding guarantees a healthy, fat, strong, well conditioned, fully weaned bird. It may take longer for the birds to wean but it's the safe way to do it. I wouldn't wean any of my chicks with any other method except adundance feeding. Ive used that method for years. Pet shops who buy then sell birds are not fed this way and that's why those birds are not in the best of shape.

I have breeder greys that were extremely anti-bath, anti spray, anti bowl. I use breeders as an example because they're much more aggressive than pet greys. They're not hand trained and these breeders like to bite. They all hate baths but definitely need them. Using this method on pet greys is much easier. I fill up a sink with 3 to 4 inches of water that's colder than room temperature. I have a sprayer at hand. I put each bird in the sink. I'm in front so he/she can't fly away. Each bird screeches, squawks and growls and tries to nip. I have an old ping pong ball floating in the sink which diverts their attention. They try to bite the ball. While they're in the sink, the underside gets completely soaked down to the skin because that area isn't waterproof. Because they're deep in the water, they sometimes pull their wings about 1 inch from their body which allows the water to get in and soak the area. That area under the wing next to the body also isn't waterproof so the water also saturates that area. What's left is the upper breast, top of back, neck. I never do the head. I also spray on the tops of the wings because of dander. It's very obvious what's on the wings. You can see the clumps of dander floating in the water. I put the sprayer in between the mist and stream setting so that the flow is a bit stronger than the misting setting is. I keep spraying the wings until upper wing color is solid gray with no white dusty areas showing. The wing feathers will darken to a deeper gray color. Understand that while this whole thing is going on, the grey is still trying to nip at the nozzle and at your trigger finger----and still growling or squawking. It's a matter of constantly moving your hand away from the mouth going in a circular motion. The bird chases the sprayer but never makes actual contact although biting it isn't a big problem. All the while, I'm still spraying. I never spray the face. As more baths are done, the bird relaxes a bit because he knows what he's in for and realizes it isn't traumatic but he/she will always act angry. That's something that can't be changed. On the wings, the most important part to spray is on top where you can see the dander. Later on after the bath when the bird is on a perch, the he/she bird will spread that water to the under wing with it's beak. Believe it or not, at this stage because it's been done to them many times, they actually like the end result although they won't tell you until it's all over. Now a days and after so many times, they've lost their desire to bite although they still try to just to let me know that they're watching. Their growling has lessened but they still do---at a lower pitch. I also use this method on my pet greys. One of them really looks forward to it and wants to stay in the sink because it's very thorough. Most people aim to get this whole thing over with very quickly where as I aimed to keep them in the sink for a longer period of time and that's what's happened. I started at 5 minutes and now they stay in the sink for about 20 minutes. I do only one bird at a time. I use cool water because it stays on the body for a long time and soaks into the skin where the dryness is. They like cool water because it simulates the cool water of the outdoors. I've never come across warm water(room temperature) outside. I NEVER towel dry or use any hair dryer on them. I leave them soaked and let them drip dry. I put them on perches, they give a quick shake and they usually stay quiet for about an hour before they start preening. My belief about why this is happening is that nature is telling the bird to let the water soak into the dry areas of the body. Eventually, they start preening and within 2 hrs they're totally dry. Even now, none of these birds like showering or deep dish bathing or spraying but this method has worked for me. I figured out this method because of the bathing problems I had with these birds years ago. My birds never completely relax, but that problem has greatly lessened. After a short while, it's very obvious how to avoid being nipped..I keep my hand away from his beak while continuing to squirt. If I move my hand in a circular motion he'll just slowly follow my hand in a circle like a merry go round. I normally wouldn't type out this method because it frightens some people. It's a matter of seeing the obstinent reactions of your bird but this method can work well. Add On-----If you're afraid of cool water temperature, just look outside your window and look at all the wild chickadees, titmice, gold finches, cardinals, mockingbirds, woodpeckers and other wild birds and look at what they're bathing in( especially in the winter). Near my outdoor feeders, I also have a feeder filled with water and they're always taking baths or drinking.. Sometimes that water is actually melted down snow. Parrots are wild birds too.

The juice works best on any area that's not waterproof--upper breast, lower breast, vent area, front and back of neck and under the wings especially the skin where the feathers come out. The same applies to water. Any fluid sprayed on waterproof areas will only roll off and you get the best results from aloe juice by first bathing him with water and then saturating the areas above. You need to let your bird drip dry, no hair dryers. Those areas above will stay wet for quite a while which makes the skin supple and less itchy. If you have trouble spraying under the wing next to the skin, turn the mister nozzle to *stream* and squirt inbetween wing and his body. Use aloe liberally. The most important thing here is skin saturation. You can do it everyday but actually, 2x a week does the job. If you really think the aloe is *gunky* you can mix with some water but I think your problem is that your bird hasn't been bathed just before using tha aloe. You need the facts here---there's 2 types of pluckers/chewers 1---acute plucking/chewing which happens periodically and then lessens. 2---chronic plucking/chewing which a bird does all the time and won't stop but that type of problem usually involves about 75% of all feathers. If you wanna let us see your bird to tell you, please post a few photos ( closeup)

A bird defecates about every 35 to 45 minutes. What you're referring to is NOT training to poop on command. That's what the thread starter here was referring to. If a bird doesn't wanna go, he doesn't wanna go so he shouldn't feel obligated to go simply because someone says a certain thing. You can figure out a rough schedule and simply put him on a stand and say something when he goes and after he goes but that should be the extent of what you're doing.

At this age, when you see dirty areas like you describe, just take very damp soft cloths and wipe those areas off. Also wipe off the feet, legs and claws. Check the beaks and wipe off any crusty material you see. They're too young to be bathed. You can very lightly mist them but only a little. Their feathers aren't waterproof yet and they'll stay wet too long.

They look real good. Sorta like 2 jewels. Their shading looks a little green like a jewel named Jade. Could be wrong though. I'm scheduled for new glasses next week.

I was asked to delete this thread by Jayd because he said it was put in the wrong place. Anyone wanting to see photos can find them in Phoebe's Babies. If the other posters in this thread want to repeat their reply, just go there. If certain things aren't there yet, Jayd will be putting them in. All that's needed is a bit of patience. Throw back a shot of spirits. Sorry for the inconvenience.

They look real good. Sorta like 2 jewels. Their shading looks a little green like a jewel named Jade. Could be wrong though. I'm scheduled for new glasses next week.

Actually, we can't really judge whether they're twins or not. It is very possible that they actually are twins. After all, Arnold Schwarzenegger and Danny Davito were twins.

Basically, that's exersise. Greys and other medium sized parrots have some ogf the strangest moves when exersizing. i can tell you that he's not cramping his foot because he wouldn't try something else with the other foot if one was cramped. Some stretch by hanging off the inner roof of a cage. Others may do similar things like yours. It's all stretching. ""I'm wondering if he's trying to feel for the domed area that used to be right above his head on his highest perch? "" It's possible. He's now in a brand new larger cage and simply testing out the similarities. Remember, he's gotta get used to everything. Everything is new to him. Over the next few months he'll be checking everything out using his own crazy methods but if you see something that scares you make sure you chat about it here and people can tell you whether it's good or bad but only rarely is something bad when it concerns their moving around. You did a good thing by getting a bigger cage. Small cages can cause some parrots to start plucking at themselves because of little room. So, he's on your shoulder there, wings are down, so obviously you're appealing to him. I realize it's a burden but LOOK, YOU'RE JUST HAVE TO ACCEPT THE FACT THAT YOU'RE ATTRACTIVE!!!!!!!!!

Those 10 Reasons are aimed at non bird people who have never had a parrot, know nothing about parrots, know nothing about the bad situations that are commonly talked about and which may arise. BUT, they're thinking about buying a parrot. Basically, it's written in order to hopefully make sure that non bird people remain non bird people unless they know what's ahead on that road. It's necessary for those people to learn that a different way of living is inevitable. What happens to a non bird person who decides to become a non bird owner isn't addressed in those reasons. That's a whole diffent situation.

Don't worry, it'll soon ease up a bit. Doing something like this is always hard in the beginning but time and success makes things easier. Your little chicks will soon start refusing that one feeding. Who knows when but that's the time that a few more hours of sleep can be had and you'll have nice dreams about birds pooping all over the place and it'll lift your spirits. It'll be a time for celebration. Make sure you have a bottle of your favorite spirit near by. Jady's gonna help you get to that day so I guess congrats are in order to you and Jayd.

Welcome to the world of parrots. It was your initisiaton into the biter's club. You're now a member in good standing. We give out special bandaids to all club members.

Who knows, maybe it was my fault because of my beginning replies which I fed into this thread. I was really pissed off. I truly was concerned when I heard certain descriptions of situations concerning this baby bird. I saw that it just didn't add up. I got very blunt and stated my opinion of the creep/breeder that sold this bird. * it's not the answer I was looking for so keep your comments to yourself*. As time progressed, more and more information surfaced which was scarier than the previous replies. I don't pull punches where parrots are concerned. The knowledgeable people came up to the plate and offered what they could. It's difficult to do things just by the written word so I always play it safe. So many others did the same thing. Concerning this person, I was told that my comments were the wrong ones. Personally, I don't feel like they were wrong but that's my opinion. I never asked for anyone to side with me. That was up to those people. I really don't care about what people think of me when I post certain replies. I said what I said, backed off and simply asked for pictures.ALL I WANTED WAS PICTURES but I couldn't get them. This person was given one of the simplest methods of posting on a well known site which many use here. * I don't wanna use Photobucket* . Only after loads of replies were entered, was info filtered in that this particular bird might have been in serious trouble. *3 days as opposed to 3 weeks*. * that since she didn't have good English * Her language wasn't a problem. It was your stupidity and ignorance that was the problem That's bullshit but what it told me was that my description from day one was correct. Others posted the same thing. People kept asking for updates. It was like pulling teeth. People suggested a vet visit. No reply. I put in a picture with an approx age of 3 week old birds. No reply. People asked if the bird was dead or alive. No reply. It was left to other people to guess about things. Over and over, people asked for replies concerning what was going on. No reply. No one walked away from you. ""Its okay, I understand. You don't get threads like this every day. Yes, it is my first grey, """" Really? And just how do you know this? Let me tell you something about how knowlegable people here act, There's another person on this board who has a similar problem like yours even though her birds are a little older. She really doesn't know the fine points of what to do so she comes her, gives daily updates and is being well guided by a person named Jayd. Then there's another person here named Dave and me who is also named Dave. Well, Dave and I , without speaking to each other knew that it would be a bad idea to throw out different methods of doing things because we knew that only one method, be it our methods or not, were being used and the person named Jayd is sticking to it and success has happened. Listen buddy, don't assume that others here don't come across serious problems here. You're just too damn lazy to read past posts. You were offered help and you shit on these people who did these things simply because they had good hearts and deep concerns for your bird and your possible lack of knowledge and YOU did prove that you had little knowledge. So now, you pissed off the administrator big time. She doesn't usually get involved in lots of things but this time she feels that's it time to stop trying to beg out information from you. She wants to do something that's not done very often because many people feel that they're wasting their time. BUT, now it all falls into place. We were dealing with a kid who's basically a twerp. So, I too wanna thank the people who put forth effort and time and caring in this 10 page thread. Hey twerp, let me tell you something----this Nursery Section is my section and I could of wiped this whole thread out a long time ago but I was just being * polite* because that's not the way I do things but I can understand the administrator wanting to do this. In the end, you're the one losing out. We only cared about your bird and you were ungrateful to many people who disagreed with you and tried to correct certain things.

I don't see any problem with it as long as"""""She'll hopefully be out and harnessed more than she's caged - just somewhere to sleep and travel. It seems to be the same size as a travel cage. Bar spacing is more important concerning cages in which a bird lives in permanently at home.

Well, there you go---you named off certain things are extremely important and that can make a parrot react or develop loads of different situations. Some good, some bad.---I said that a mature bird will take a longer amount of time to change and you said he was 10 yrs old----definitely mature. First off, you have to understand that you're not doing anything wrong here. You're developing a relationship with a mature bird who hasn't had this. It takes time. Right now, the bird is experiencing what I would call opposits. Ignored in one placed---and just the opposite in another place. """"Previous owners did not handle or speak to Francis, due to his habit of biting everyone who came within range.""""" Honestly, this simply pisses me off big time. A bird who has certain habits has to be dealt with. All types of problems have to be dealt with!. Listen, you know nothing about another one of my greys. He was aggressive BIG TIME and it took a long time to work with him. He attacked the previous husband, the wife and finally their new baby. He always drew blood. He was also an adult bird. Time and effort needs to be put in. If people ignore certain problems and just let the bird develop that way, problems are always gonna exist. Ignoring isn't curing. Want me to be perfectly honest--they shouldn't have had the bird. Gender isn't important at this time because your bird isn't having an over ctive problem with laying eggs when no male or other bird is around. A female that does that can possibly die. I've seen it happen with different species. I've dealt with different species and I can tell you for sure that your situation isn't a grey thing--it's a parrot thing. constant contact calls, --that will lessen as soon as he/she is more used to the environment and you and your husband. It won't stop but will lessen. He/she wants companionship which he didn't get. Let me tell you something---keeping a bird caged all the time as he/she was causes BIG PROBLEMS of all kinds. Ask anyone here. particular piercing squeak ---that'll lessen to as soon as he knows that you're definitely there. He probably did this in the past, was ignored so that habit got louder. Cowbells----yes, they will make noise but are extremely good for parrots to have. They get very aggressive with the bell ( mock fights) and eventually become very affectionate with the same bell. The next day the process will start again but as time goes on the fighting with the bell lessens and it becomes a part of the bird's new home (cage). Normally, in the future the bird won't let you take that bell out. The bell is a friend. Flying-----I look at your avator and from what I can see, the length and shortness of the cut would allow your bird to fly about 5 to 7 ft before landing on the floor. That cut won't allow any altitude at all so this is a suggestion in case you're worried about injury. Try to pick up a cheap 5 or 6 ft square or retangular area rug and surround the cage and playstand with it. ----your bird will fly downward, and land on the rug. That distance will increase as his wings get longer. Some of here aren't fond of wing clipping but right now, you shouldn't worry about that at all. You need to deal with the present situation. Listen, I'm not trying to scare you but you need to understand that in my eyes, there isn't a problem. I just feel that time will lessen your problems. Also understand that there's people here who wish their bird was as affectionate. All of this is gonna take patience and he'll probably come around to your husband Relationships with 2 people in a house aren't always the same. A bird will like one person for certain things and the other person for other things. Just remember that there's a whole bunch of people here who can help and won't ignore what you need to know.