Dave007

I doubt you'll get an answer. The post is 2 yrs old.

Usually a vet has a technition always working there and many procedures, serious or minor that are done on birds usually involve the vet and the assistant. If he's an avian vet then, he's more than likely have dealt with birds of all dispositions. If he's a regular vet then I can understand him being a little leery of handling the bird. It's hard to give an opinion without pictures. Falling and banging into something can cause that. A very irritated area of skin where quills are pressing into the skin. Having a bad accident with a heavy duty toy can do that. But guess work isn't a good idea. You may need to contact another vet that will handle an aggressive bird.

There's nothing unusual about him getting sick of that morning formula feed. He's telling you that more chewable solid food is what he wants. Refusing a formula feeding is simply the bird starting to wean off the formula. It's already starting with the lunch feeding.That's eventually gonna hapen with all the formula feedings. He'll eventually start biting into that more solid food. Your bird is very active, playful, trying to fly, likes to investigate all things. This isn't a sign of a bird who's malnourished. He'll eat as soon as he's hungry enough and you may have to change the more solid food to a different brand because many birds will accept one type over another.

""""Once I brought it home and allowed the baby to adjust for a couple hours, I began handling. """" You need to let a new bird settle in without all of the physical contact. The bird needs alot more time than 5 hrs to feel comfortabe. The bird has to get used to you, the family, the surroundings, the daily visible habits, the atmosphere and also the cage. All of this takes different amounts of time. It could be 2 weeks on up. All birds take to things differently so their time line is different. The cage will be it's permanent home and right now, it feels safest where it can observe all types of things. The general personality of a bird at a breeder's house is different. Your bird is now in a new home. The breeder had the bird for a while but that time didn't include biting because the bird was extremely young and the bird was familar with that place plus other birds being around. Take it very slow at the beginning until your bird shows interest and curiousity beyond that cage.

This also is what may be contributing to the bird's behavior--normally, a bird that's been injured, major or minor injuries, if needed the first place is a vet visit. If the bird has to stay there, it's because of a medical situation. The bird won't like it there. Who likes a hospital? The next place for the bird to go to is right back home into a familar atmosphere. That's where a bird who's ill or well, feels the most secure and can relax in the comfort of it's own home *****Soon after when Jakob's full extent of his trauma became apparent, Jakob's dad returned him to the breeder. After eight months with the breeder, little progress has been made.***** Very bad idea. No matter how sick the bird was, it shouldn't have been sent into a new unrecognisable place. That can produce very bad effects on a bird who is either well or sick. Many will tell you that greys are extremely sensitive to things like that. Many people even have problems with their well bird after putting the bird into a place that baby sits birds while the people go away for a few days. When that discussion is talked about, many will try to tell others to have someone come to the house to feed/water the bird as well as providing some human contact. The breeder had other birds there. Habits and atmosphere was different there. Then, after no luck, the bird was sent back to the owner. That's basically like rehoming a bird twice. Even very healthy greys who are rehomed have problems in each new establishment. There's many things that a grey will find strange and will act negativly on a grey. All parrots have different personalities. There's other species that might have acted a bit different than the grey and that has to do with personality. A grey can pick up an aggressive or defensive or frightened attitude when being rehomed. Doing something like that to a sick bird isn't a good idea at all. The bird needs security, people it knows, familar surroundings, household habits that he/she is familar with. It's my opinion that bringing a traumatised , injured bird to a stranger was a bad idea can more than likely deter a bird from getting on the right track. *****When he is in his cage and his caregiver is downstairs, he will suddenly scream bloody murder and throw himself to the bottom of the cage. His caregiver does not respond (not wanting to reinforce the behaviour) and some days he'll do it 1-4 times, other days not at all. ***** The only thing the bird is saying and acting out is that he/she doesn't wanna be alone. Reinforcing the behavior? Listen, the bird is sick, injured and possibly has other physical problems concerning what happened. The present baehavior is from something that no one seems to know about. If you do decide to take the bird you'll need to do 3 very important things---- 1---make sure that the bird is in the middle of everything so that daily habits and goings on can been seen. You can also benefit from this because you may be able to spot things that are upsetting the bird before they get frantic. 2---Make sure that you make an appointment with a different vet to get a second opinion. Make sure the vet is avian. 3---Expect to deal with a bird who first has to settle down in your home andbegin the process of healing. Really think hard about taking this bird because the last thing he needs is another place to go to if you can't cope. This is nothing against you but many people bite off more than they can chew. I don't know you. I don't know how experienced you are with physically handicapped or traumatiesed, injured birds nor am I gonna ask. You asked that no one should pull punches so I'm laying it on the line and I'm not putting you or the present owner down. I'm only thinking about a traumatised bird. PS---it doesn't matter if that bird originally came from that breeder. Sending the bird back there was sending the bird back into a new, unfamilar place which was a bad idea.

I can remember when you were telling people that you were about to ana grey within 2 weeks. You got her and you were thrilled and you made sure everyone else knew. Now, she's 2 yrs old and you sound like *the thrill isn't gone*. You've been a good mother . Congrats to both you and her.

Lex I asked 2 people who live in the UK if what you say is true. Both said no and one of those people uses a harness specifically to go out with the bird.

There's many reasons this could have happened. It could have been something that happened outside, inside, a serious fall in the cage, landing in the wrong spot, sudden lightning or a heavy amount of thunder or lights not being put on at the regular normal time. It's very possible that he suffered brain damage or serious head damage. A very common thing for a grey to do is to self mutilate. If given enough time while the bird is alone, that feather mutilation can be very serious. I have a bird that did that simply because he was alone all day. At least your has some baby feathers--mine looked like a plucked chicken except for it'd head. If the feather damage is as bad as you say, it's gonna take a long time for the bird to look normal and there's a possibility that some damaged areas will never grow feathers again since you said blood is involved. There could be a minor fracture that the vet may have missed. That's not unusual. Epilepsy--yes parrots can have epilepsy but what you're describing isn't epilepsy. When a bird has a seizure the after effects last a very long time and the bird will stay on the bottom of the cage, be very quiet for a long period of time and when a bird has a seizure, that's actually the best time to pick him up. They won't fight back. A bird takes quite a while to come back from a seizure. """He did improve after dosing, but dosing requires toweling and using a syringe to medicate him. I think this equates to paying one credit card bill with another credit card."""" In many medical situations thats a very common way to give medication especially if there's no other way to give it and a vet usually teaches the person how to do it. Unfortunately at least for now even though you might not like it, the bird has to live like this until this long term problem is seriously addressed. His behavior can be seen all the time. In his situation, the perch/perches in that cage need to be lowered to about 5 inches above the grating. The cage needs a heavy duty towel, prefrebably white since any possible blood or bad droppings can be easily seen. You say the plucking has slowed. That's a plus. Many times, a physological problem is much harder to deal with that a physical problem. """"If you go to pick him up and he doesn't want to be picked up, he will throw himself backwards onto the floor with no concern for his own safety - it is pure terror."""" Don't pick him up. If it scares him than that's a setback. Many things that were present in the past may have to be temporarily curtailed right now. Many times, readjustment is a very long process and obviosly, from what you're saying, the problem was very serious. Right now, the bird has to feel that it can relax and that's not happening right now. It's up to the owner to provide that atmosphere.

Go to the Health Room. Look for 100% AloeVera Juice. There's a complete set of directions, amounts to use. But a quiock tip--use it undiluted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoZ01NxuufM

Personally, I would go with the Aviator Harness simply because you can use it for either flight training or just an item to make sure your bird doesn't go far away. Bothe items come with a short leash but only one has the ability to be lengthed with optional extentions. The Aviator costs more but in the long run, it's worth it. Plus, the Aviator Harness is easier to put on or take off. Feather Tether---$12 to $15 depending upon size of the bird. The feather tether is cheaper for a TAG than for a CAG. Aviator Harness--- $29 to $35 depending upon where you buy it. That's the price for one that's made for a CAG. Larger ones such as for a macaw costs more.

There's basically two types of harnesses that can be bought. One is called a feather tether. It comes with a 5 to 7 ft leash depending upon the brand. It's put on the bird and allows the person to walk around with the bird but the bird can't fly due to the length and thickness of the harness. Usually the bird sits on a person's shoulder. The other type is called aviator harness. The harness itself is a lighter weight. People get this item with the intention of giving their bird the ability to fly short distances. As the bird gets better at it, the leash is lengthened. Using the aviator harness is a training aid which takes a while for the bird and it's owner to get used to it. As far as reacting to it, all birds are different so reacting to it may be different. A way to make a bird react better is to make sure the harness can be put on and taken off quickly so there's no big drama about it.

Basically, your bird will either 1---start to show off, fluffing feathers, strutting back and forth because he thinks it's another bird. 2---become very frightened or aggressive of the image in the mirror and will squawk. Usually, the bird will stay away from the mirror. If it's impossible to have the bird not see himself, then the mirror must be moved or the cage moved. 3---will pay no attention to the image and simply go about it's business as usual. It all has to do with the bird. Stopping them from talking? I doubt it. People who have multiple birds near each other in the same room have some talkers in the bunch and other birds don't hinder them from chattering Not attaching to a person? There's no answer to that but if that starts to happen, simply remove the mirror. It's really not a big problem.

Greys don't usually do anything to children first. Usually, it's the other way around. Poking at the bird, running around quickly and erractically around the bird will startle him/her. Basically, the kids have to be taught that they need to slow down around the bird so that it relaxes. In general greys don't like kids who don't slow down but they can eventually get used to kids. If your kids have friends of the same age over to visit, the bird needs to be put in an area where it'll feel secure and those kids must be told to not go near the bird. Greys are leery of kids who aren't shown how to deal with the bird. It's up to you to decide about having a grey. You know yoour kids and how they are. Can they be taught how to deal with a parrot? That's the secret to having greys and kids in the same house.

Craftmaster says that cooked foods are anything but natural in the wild and I totally agree with her. That was a very obviously correct simple statement. Can you name any foods that are cooked in the wild that parrots eat? *there's always something missing!!* Exactly what is missing in the food in the wild that makes those birds unhealthier than captive birds who eat different concoctions of food cooked by human beings? Some cooked foods may be good for parrots but only by accidental discovery and experimentation and the act of cooking is definitely not natural and it's true that cooking certain foods will kill off some nutrients that parrots need and I'll say that giving cooked food is fine. A cooked potato is definitely not as nutritious as a raw potato where parrots are concerned. I definitely don't think that cooked foods give a parrot something more healthier than they can get in the wild. What they eat outdoors provides them with everything they need not only to survive but also to be superb specimens of their species. It's survival of the fittest and that starts with good natural nutrition. All the bells and whistles are provided by people but it still isn't on a par with what they eat outdoors simply because it doesn't exist in the wild. Some of their natural food outdoors is something people can't eat unless it's prepared for human consumption. That also applies to other wild birds in the wild and they're not even parrots. As a matter of fact parrots eat other types of live food which is completely nutritious such as bugs and seeds that are in droppings. People don't feed bugs to their birds. They dig into the ground and find very nutritious things because nature has made them scavengers. You own sick birds? Well, they didn't get sick in the wild. So, don't make it sound like what a captive parrot is getting food wise in a house is better than what the non captive bird is getting in the wild. And as far as reading Maggie Wright, well she may differ with Jane Hallander who in turn may differ with Bobby Brinker who in turn may differ with Mattie Sue Athan who in turn may differ with Judy Leach. All are supposed to be experts. No matter what studies vets are involved in, none will say that what parrots eat in the wild is not as healthy as our designer foods just like you won't hear vets say that the vultures that are flying around and swooping down and eating decayed, days old, smelly rotted carcasses of other animals aren't getting a nutritious diet. I'm glad you told her that we're real people here. I'm sure that Craftmaster is a real person just like the rest of us.

Like Dan said, concerning your bird on the shoulder area--- it's a no no. You simply can't let him up there. When he tries, stop him. Keep the arm that he's standing on in front of you not the side. The problem is that when your bird is on your shoulder he can see all of you but you can't see him. If a person in your situation tries to take the bird off of one shoulder, it's very easy for the bird to scoot over to the other side and if a person continues chasing the bird from shoulder to shoulder, he'll eventually bite. There's other problems that involve other situations with shoulders, namely the birdon the shoulder who likes to bite earlobes, jewelry, clothing and even the cheeks. The same rule applies to that bird too. No shoulders is the only way to stop what he's doing.

The teething stage-----Greys as well as other parrots have no teeth. Look upon your bird's beak as it's hand. Everything he touches is done by the beak/hand first. Everything he touches is bitten by using pressure so that the texture is known. Hard, soft, breakable, unbreakable. All of that is done very frequently while the bird is very young and lessens as time goes on as the bird gets older and is more familar with different items that have been tested. Greys aren't normally as cuddly as other species of parrots and that increases as the bird gets older. Practice a step up program and walk away with your bird frequently so that his attention is on other surrounding areas while he's on your hand. Start this stepping up training on the floor. Practice different things on the floor. Have tug of wars with strings and small toys that he's familar with. Don't put so much emphasis on putting your fingers in it's body until you learn of a way to make your bird step up quickly. Take him from the cage and put him on a playstand. Have treats available that you can hand him instead of your fingers. Interacting with your bird may be a bit of a process until you show him that you're the boss. More than likely, you're approching your bird ight now and you're a little leery about what he's gonna do and a grey can sense that very easily and will get nippy. If you're not sure of yourself yet, he won't be sure of you either and the first thing he'll do is take his beak/hand and get nippy.

Hi Shanlung Nice to see you again. Boy oh boy, you are one traveling guy. I can't keep up with you. Maybe I'll buy another motorcycle and join you. Gotta get the passport first.:cool: Well, as you know, Smokey was a complete harness success and for the last 1 1/2 year I've been working with my TAG Tee and it's been coming along pretty well. He never stops. He never wants to come back in the house. I try to bring him in and he nips me constantly cause he wants to stay out with that harness. A friend of mine was thinking about that harness too. He got his wife to make him one. Guess what? Concerning Tee, I finally got real brave and finally made a lighter weight harness because Tee is smaller than Smokey. I used the directions you originally sent me a couple of years ago for Smokey except I refined it and it worked out pretty well. So anyway, make sure you take care of yourself because I look at your pics and I see some old age wrinkles creeping in. It's the wear and tear of world wide traveling. By the way, Gary from the old board wanted to say hello if I spoke to you again. Dave

That's good that you spotted the grey. No matter which one you pick, if you spot a grey or amazon or Ekkie on the bag, then it's the right size. Most bags have pictures on them.

There's nothing wrong with Pretty Bird. All the different brand pellets sold are basically the same thing--different shapes, different designs and about 95% of them are all colored and the coloring has nothing in it that will hurt a bird. """""I already plan on switching his mix to Hagen gourmet large parrot fruit and nut mix."""""" That's not a good idea because of 3 reasons 1--The bird already has established a food that it likes. He's not a baby anymore and so far, he's lived pretty well on his present diet. 2--There's no guarantee that the bird will take to a different brand just because you think it's better. 3-- large parrot -------A grey isn't classified as a large parrot and the items in the large size may not be able to be chewed up and broken. A grey needs a medium sized mix. Pretty Bird and also Zupreem have medium sized pellets. Don't be fooled by the word *Gourmet*.

Just go back to the Aloe Instructions and at the bottom, you'll see how to use it. 1/2 squirts allow better coverage and as said the areas mentioned are the most important areas to soak down. As you can see, the flight feathers are waterproof and any fluid will just run off. It takes time and practice. How much water--as much as you like. How much Aloe---2x a week is plenty unless your bird has a skin problem. Then 3x to 4x a week is good. As time goes on, your bird will accept any squirting but squirting from far away really doesn't accomplish much so use the close up method.

The transition should as simple an as uncomplicated as can be. It sounds like you wanna do too many things in a very short amount of time and that's not gonna work because the bird's focus will be on it's new surroundings. The bird isn't worried about his new cage. As far as actually taking him home, the ideal way is to have the bird in a small covered enclosure such as an animal carrier big enough to hold a small cat or rabbit. If you don't have one, the cage should be completely covered until you get him home. What you're doing with that tiel cage is fine and it's a good thing that it's small. ""The only other thing in the cage is a toy (orange nut hatch) filled with human grade peanuts which are his favorite treat."" Take that stuff out. He's not gonna play with the toy or eat the peanuts. ""Now, my concern is if he is not willing to go into the cage at all. Should we place him in the cage or allow him to ride outside of it. He is only partially clipped and I worry about him traveling from the vehicle to the door uncaged."" Any moving of the bird into any cage ( even his own) should be done inside the person's house and releasing the bird should only be done in your house. That allows you to simply carry the cage and bird into the truck quickly. Make sure that you make theres enough room in the truck before you get to the person's house. Forget about the stepping up stuff. That'll happen in a few days. Your most important thing is getting the bird into the cage at your house and leaving him alone until he settles down. It's good that you're keeping the other animals and kids away. You can leave the bird with him but at a distance. Don't start poking him and trying to pet him until he's settled in which may take a few days. More than likely he'll bite you. Your husband will set up the old cage so keep the bird in another room while this is going on. When he's finished, bring the bird to the cage and let him go in and again, leave him alone. You can softly talk to him but that's it. """I will just leave the travel cage door open on top of his cage so he can come out. "" That's a bad idea. He didn't have a travel cage around him in the past so putting one around him now is only gonna frighten him. Small travel cages are used by people to take their birds to the vet or from one place to another. It can serve no other purpose. """I will just leave the travel cage door open on top of his cage so he can come out.""" Simply take the bird out of the cage and put him in the other one. He may come out but may not go into the other cage. He may go up and you may not be able to retrieve him. """How long should I give him before I try to step him up?""" When he starts to relax and starts to show interest in other things besides staying in a corner. That may take a few days. He'll be alert and on guard. ""The cage is going to have to ride on the front seat between my father and I, again not ideal"" Again, keep the bird covered. It's only you that thinks it's not ideal. The bird isn't gonna stop and say to itself ** Gee, damn it, I wanted my own limo with cushioned seats** There's other things you'll need to do in the near future as far as dealing with the bird but right now, you'll need the bird to show some of it's personality. PS--have your husband set up the cage but also put foof and water in before you put him in. Your hands may frighten him.

Better stick to the filing method. Apparantly, you misjudged how much to take off and you paid the price. You may have to file more often but there doesn't seem to be a problem or you can take the bird to a vet and have the tech do it.

What kind of a holder is your bowl in? Drops down into a ring?