Wing Clipping Help & Very Fearful Bird

[Giannine]

Hi everyone, it has been awhile since I have posted or visited. I posted before about Poppy being a very fearful bird. She has been like that since I got her at 14 weeks in 2016. She came from a very good breeder and I am home mostly every day so I know what goes on around her most of the time. I don't have bratty kids and the youngest is 9 and oldest at home is 21. He and my 16-year-old (2nd oldest at home) spend 98% of their time in their rooms downstairs. Everyone is afraid of Poppy except my 21-year-old and my 10-year-old is able to get her back on her cage with a perch (she hates when we try to get her with a perch and will attack it unless she is on the floor) if needed but he doesn't handle her beyond that. Neither does my 21-year-old. I am the only one who can actually hold her. The problem is, I have become afraid to. I can hold her but it is only a matter of time before the tiniest noise spooks her and she starts getting bitey with me.

The other major issue I am having is not being able to get her wings clipped because I don't know how to even get her into a carrier or towel her without her absolutely freaking out. Her not having her wings clipped has become a big issue because when she is out of her cage and I am in the main part of the house where her cage is because she is constantly flying onto me. I cannot get anything done and I am not comfortable having a fearful bird on me all the time. I have had to resort to having one of the kids let her out when I and our Quaker Parrot are upstairs because she flies onto the Quaker's cage all the time. They have always been kept separate for safety reasons. I just don't know what to do. I have begun to feel like I am a very ill-equipped person to deal with this particular bird. I feel like I got in over my head. Any suggestions for how to get her into a carrier so I can take her to a vet to get her wings clipped? All other advice and input welcome as well.

Edited January 21, 2018 by Giannine

[SRSeedBurners]

How close is your breeder?    I'm wondering if they can come over to help you get the bird in a carrier.   Some people aren't as fearful of getting bit and that's what it takes with some birds (our Huey butchers my hands & arms).

 

I'm really surprised you're having this trouble with a handfed baby with a known history.

[Jayd]

Greetings,

Clipping would probably push her over the edge and would only make things more stressful for her. This young bird looks to you as her"Soul Mate" and her life partner, .Your past posts I've read are great.

It may help to give her chamomile tea,

Rome was not built in a day...nor the trust of an African Grey...

 

 

Edited January 24, 2018 by Jayd
Wrong

[Giannine]

Thank you for the replies. Poppy is a Timneh. She came from Florida and I am in Washington state. 

Our other parrot is not out of Poppy’s sight. Their cages are about 10 feet from each other and are in plain sight of one another.

Poppy scrambles up to my shoulder and I have not figured out how to prevent her from doing so. She will not stay where I set her.

Our household is pretty calm. I can’t stand chaos and ruckus. Nobody does anything to invade Poppy’s space...they talk to her when she is in her cage but again, they do not handle her. I do. Nobody pokes at her. My kids are respectful of animals.

She wants to be with me all the time but until I get these issues under control, I cannot have her out of her cage as much as she was before her wings grew back (all day). 

Poppy also freaks out if any man comes near her cage. Not my adult sons, other men. My stepdad approached her cage and she started screaming and flapping all over the place. A man who delivered something did the same and she had the same reaction. This is not an abused or neglected bird but you would think she was judging by her behavior.

Edited January 22, 2018 by Giannine

[Jayd]

On 1/22/2018 at 1:00 AM, Giannine said:

Thank you for the replies.

 

i'm sorry that I didn't explain myself better. Sorry I misunderstood.

Your Grey is very young and usually a little unstable until 6 years old. Our Joe, who was a mentally abused rescue Grey, was 2 when we got him and he is now 10. Just the last two years he has been coming into his own. For years he would only associate with me and then switched over to my wife Maggie about two years ago and has little to do with me, ...

 ,

Edited January 24, 2018 by Jayd
spelling, Wrong

[neoow]

I'm not sure if I have much useful advice to offer. I just wanted to say I'm sorry about the situation you're in as I can appreciate it's tough to know what to do for the best.

Alfie is 14 years old and he will still give me a nip/bite if he's not happy about something. Over the years, I started to become scared of being bitten and worried about handling him. I think he picked up on this and it made the situation worse. It has taken us both a long time (years) to work through this together. He will still give me a nip if he's grumpy about something but I have worked on learning when and why I might receive a bite. I have also learned to approach Alfie with more confidence and this generally gets better results. That's not to say I am boisterous or try and pick him up when he doesn't want it. But I try and remain confident in my body language and my voice when handling him. It sounds stupid but it has helped. I find if I am nervous and Alfie picks up on it, he is more likely to bite because either he is nervous as well or he is pushing the boundaries (e.g trying to stay out past bed time!) Typically I know when I'm likely to receive a bite and I ride it out and talk through it. Nowadays they're not even that painful (except for the odd one) because I think he's realised he's not getting as much of a reaction.

Alfie is also a 'no shoulder' bird. I do not trust him on my shoulder because he will not sit there for long before pulling at my hair or trying to get to my ears. That makes me uncomfortable because I cannot see what he is doing and I am worried that he may manage to catch my eye one day. So I persevere with the 'no shoulder' rule. When he lands to my arm he will try and make his way up it because he wants to sit on my shoulder so I put my other arm in the way. He will either step up onto that arm or he will move back to my forearm/wrist. Typically when I am sitting down he prefers to sit on my knee/leg anyway, which suits me just fine.

Poppy is still very young and has a lot to learn.

I'm afraid I don't have any useful suggestions for you but I hope you, the family and Poppy manage to find a way forward that works for you all.

[Greytness]

Frankly I believe that clipping her will add to her stress. Right now she's able to remove herself from situations that frighten her. Imagine her stress amplified once she discovers she can't take care of herself by way of flight anymore. Could result in her becoming a stress plucker.

Poppy has chosen you, which is what Greys do. They simply adore their chosen one, and they do what their instincts tell them to do, which is to be with their person. My Maalik has chosen my son, but I'm his close second. Maalik won't have anything to do with 3 other family members, and the 4th he hates, simply because my son extended his negativity towards him. These Greys pick up energies big time, and do not forget that energy. In the case of my son, Maalik will dive bomb him whenever his back is turned towards him. Solution? When my son's in the room, he faces him at all times. Otherwise he goes elsewhere in the house.

Bird behavior is extremely complex. In order to understand them, we must try to place ourselves into their worlds, looking out and seeing things from their point of view. I believe that Poppy senses your discomfort, which could be amping up her perceptions of things.

I have 11 birds, some of which will freak out whenever a stranger passes by their cage. They can definitely identify strangers, who I think they see as scary prey.

[Charlie Parker]

Hello,

I too have a 2 yr old male timneh named charlie that i got at 3 months old from florida, i live in washington as well. Bought him from a bird farm from the owner dave, wonder if its the same place you got your girl? Anyway, charlie just loves my husband andy, always wants to be on or near him. Andy gives charlie a lot of time during the day but when enough is enough he puts charlie in his cage for awhile. I also have a male and a female congo. Charlie loves to dive bomb them and knock them off their perches, he likes to make sure they know he is boss in the house. The congos prefer not to fly, they like walking on the floor. Wing clipping did nothing good for charlie the one and only time i did it. He became depressed and cried a lot. He even just threw himself off his cage sometimes knowing he couldn't fly. I decided wing clipping was not for my greys. The cage thing..... i found that if you place the travel cage in a place they can check it out, in time they will explore it and get comfortable with it to where you won't have a problem putting her in it. It may take a week or longer maybe, just set tbe travel cage out for her to explore so shes not afraid of it. I'm in oak harbor btw.

[chezron]

Do you take your bird out into the sunlight on nice days? I found sunlight (outside and not at a window because it blocks important rays) is so good at mellowing my guys out. I call is "birdie valium". It is amazing to be how calming it is. Clipping tends to make greys more timid and neurotic. I wouldn't do that. Try sunlight and a better diet. Avoid pellets with artificial colors and flavors and emphasize organic fruits and vegetables, and other organic foods.

[Acappella]

When I got Dorian and it had been a year he was still afraid of my hands, biting when he felt I wasn't listening to him, which in turn made me afraid to put my hands anywhere near him.  He was not stepping up, and still totally cage bound, So I got desperate and hired an animal behaviourist to come over for a couple of hour to observe us and 'talk' to Dorian.  The best advice I got from her was to approach him as if he was already the bird I wanted him to be.  With the stepping up that meant to offer it as an option to him and allow him not to choose it right now.  Same with being cage bound.  I left his door open and allowed him to choose to stay inside that day.  As silly as it sounds I became aware that I approached his cage with different body language when I kept this advice in mind.  It was a few weeks of this and he became noticeably less bitey, and one day he left his cage and had a little wander round the outside!  I really believe my change of attitude made him feel safer.

Have you checked out the tread, in the training room I believe, called Behaviour Most Commonly Seen, or something like that.  It will help you pick up on your birds subtle body language before they get to a bite.  My Dorian usually wakes in a lovely mood, but every now and then he wakes up on the wrong side of the perch, and I now can tell before I even open the cage door.  On those days I don't offer my hand for the inevitable bloodletting.  You need to learn your birds body language so you can cut him off at the pass before he gets to a bite.

Part of that is keeping him off your shoulder where you can't see his body language.  If you have to get creative, do.  Maybe sew a stuffie to each shoulder so there's no room for him? Has anyone ever taught you the Egyptian pose?  If he lands on your forearm, drop your elbow so it's lower than your wrist.  It goes against their instincts to climb down.  This worked for me.  Dorian used to try to climb to my shoulder all the time.  Now that I'd actually trust him on my shoulder, he's not at all interested!  When you hear flapping wings put your arm out as a place to land.  If he lands on your forearm go into the Egyptian pose, if he lands on your upper arm immediately put your opposite forearm in his way blocking his path to your shoulder as was suggested above.  If he does get to your shoulder, have you ever tried getting him to step up onto a perch?  I've trained Dorian to step up onto a perch and now he does it obediently 99% of the time.  I use it if I want to move him from a place like my desk, or his playstand at bedtime, but he isn't in the mood to obey.  They can get in downright pissy moods at times.  I usually give him one chance to do things in a civilized manner, then I bring out the perch.  To be clear, he's not at all afraid of the perch, he just seems to recognize that he's pushed mommy just a little to far at the moment and steps up for it.  I even give him a minute to take out his frustration on the perch when he's been returned to his cage by grabbing it by an eye hook I've got screwed into the end of the perch and beating up on it for a minute.  That part is quite cute, but I'd never tell him that!

As for his fear of men, have you ever wondered if a man did something that scared him badly while he was in transit to you?  I don't think a reputable breeder would have shipped a bird with this intense a fear response.  You may never know what happened, but anything you can do to bring down your birds' overall fear and increase his confidence will help his reaction.  When I rescued Dorian his previous owner told me I could never date a man with grey or white hair because Dorian reacted so badly towards them (her husband had white hair).  But then again Dorian was overall a very fearful bird.  Now he's such a confident little bugger I doubt he'd even have a reaction.  Anyway, for this reason I don't think I'd clip him right now.  He sounds like a very fearful bird. You need to increase his confidence in his ability to handle situations that are frightening to him.  Clipping would do the opposite.   By all means put the travel cage out where he can get used to it.  It will come in handy if you ever have an emergency.  Let him explore it when there's no emergency and he won't freak out by being put in it if there is one.

Sorry, this turned into a long post.  I hope there are some tips here that you can use.

[Giannine]

Hi everyone, thank you so much for all of your input and advice! I apologize for being mia for so long...I have been dealing with some serious family issues.

Poppy has gotten so much better since I posted this (fear-wise). She is less jumpy. I will try blocking her from getting onto my shoulder with my other arm. She cares nothing about climbing down my arm and will actually hang from my arm and maneuver her way to my shoulder if I try raising my arm so it is a steep decline. I could try out the egyptian pose though...maybe that will work.

I got Poppy from a woman named Pat in Florida. She is wonderful. She and her husband owned a pet store in Ohio for 30 years. 

I love Oak Harbor, by the way...we are in Mill Creek/Bothell. Sorry, I am trying to reply to multiple people in one post:)

The main big complaint I have now is Poppy not leaving me alone when she is out of her cage. She HAS to be on me at all times which makes it very difficult to get anything done.

As of now, I have no easy way of getting Poppy outside without taking her cage out there. Kind of a hassle but as soon as it warms up, I will do so

Edited March 29, 2018 by Giannine

[Jayd]

Hi, This is Maggie, Jayd's wife, and he asked me to answer this since I have the same problem...sweetheart, there is no cure (that I have found yet)...you have been selected...you are the CHOSEN one... you have a new BFF...unless your Poppy changes allegiance to someone else, this will continue. My BFF is our Salsa and Joey (Our Amazon and Grey)...when one is not on me, the other one is....I feel like I have a permanent rolling bowling ball attached to my shoulders and my clothes all have the same green stains and patterns... When it gets to be mating season (which is now), it gets worse unless they are napping...(Whew)...I use the excuse of going to the bathroom a lot and locking the door...LOL...No, seriously, I do love every minute of it because I know it will not last forever...Sometimes, I can get them to stand on a perch, counter, or bucket next to me while I do something if I talk to them the whole time and bribe with a treat such as a "Good nut" (Raw spaghetti pasta or pistachio)

When we were breeding cockatiels, I had between 10-30 babies on me at all times...in my hair, hanging on my nose, picking at my ears, playing hide-and-seek under my clothes...

I do not know how much this helps except that you are in an exclusive club....Maggie

[Jayd]

A parrot even with clipped wings can fly and be lost. A proper clip is the same amount clipped from each wing, A small breeze with the fid flapping, can have the breeze lift her and deposit her on a nearby tree which they can then flutter from tree to tree...Before you clip, please do all the research you cam.