Korra is biting very hard! Any advice please?

[Devin Corso]

Hello everyone, I am having trouble with my African grey Korra. She is two years old and I got her from a licensed private breeder when she was weaned. I trained her not to bite, and we were even moving onto learning to be on her back in the palm of my hand. She is very snugly and sweet. I actually took this when she was a baby.

 

I went away to college for 9 months and sadly could not take her with me because the dorms did not allow it. My mom took very good care of her and it worked out nicely because Korra did not bite my mom. I think that is because we have similar hair and voices, and I also introduced Korra to my mom when she was young. I was able to visit Korra (and Yoshi) three times for a day (the college was far away).

 

I worked overtime to get my degree faster and completed the program. I graduated and came back home last Saturday (June 27th). Yoshi and Korra both recognized me and let me hold and pet them. But the next day Korra started, and hasn't since stopped biting. I almost needed stitches the first time, and she has bit me many more times, and continues to draw blood and break skin.

 

I reprimand her by saying "No biting" and "I don't like that" in a firm, stern, deep voice, but I make sure not to yell. I give her a mean look, and a very disappointed look, and shake my head a little. I tell her again that "I don't like that" and than say something like "I don't want to talk or play with you if you are acting like this. That's not nice." I put her back on her perch (outside her cage) and ignore her. I don't look or talk to her. *I have read that putting them back in their cage as time-out is bad*

After about 10-15 minutes I go back to her and ask to try it again. Instead of "ending it" I want to give her the opportunity to change her attitude and end it on a good note. I tell her "Hey let's try this again. No biting this time. We can do better than that!" But when I get my hand close she lurches forward and bites me. Although some days I can expect this because of her body language while I am ignoring her. If I take a small glance at her she is leaning forward towards me with her eyes slightly pinned. Either that or she has her feathers fluffed up, her eyes pinned, head held high, and wings a little bit out. I reprimand her again and put her in her cage. I don't want to use her cage as a time out, but I don't want to keep her out if she keeps biting.

 

I know what that body language means, but I still want to give her an opportunity, and I don't want to "let her win" by being scared. But it is frustrating because it hurts! I also feel hurt emotionally because I really do love her and it is kind of like her saying "I hate you!" I know African Greys are very emotional and smart birds. I'm sure she is giving me the message that she is angry at me for leaving. But how do I let her know that it is done now, and biting is still not accepted?

 

Does anyone have any suggestions? I don't know what to do, but I want to mend our relationship. Am I doing things right? I love her so much.

[Acappella]

You're reacting right when she bites, but for now I wouldn't give her the opportunity to bite. I would treat her like a new bird you're just getting acquainted with. That is, I wouldn't try to handle her right now. Part of re-building your relationship is re-building the trust between you. Spend a lot of time by her cage talking with her. Feed her treats if she'll take them nicely. Let her see you get the message that she is unhappy with you right now. Let her see you make toys in front of her, play with other pets, make being outside the cage look fun. It may take a while, and I'm talking grey time here. Stop thinking of it as letting her win and think of it as slowly re-building the relationship. Flock members are equals, not leaders and followers. Let her make the decision that you should be allowed back into the club!

[neoow]

I agree with the advice from Acappella. It's very tricky to know what's going on in those little grey heads sometimes. For now, I'd back off a bit and let her get used to you being around again. She may need some time to get used to the fact that you're back home and therefore you may need to gain her trust again.

[Greytness]

She's also entering into the terrible twos. Dave has a great sticky somewhere on this forum which discusses what to expect from our grey babies from birth onward.

 

My Maalik likes to harass me by pinching the back of my neck and making a loud clacking sound. Occasionally he chomps down with a bit of force. Like you, I tell him 'no biting. I don't like that' while sending him the stink eye look. If he's especially bratty, I sing to him, which settles him back down into a fluffy ball of cuddliness.

[judygram]

It looks like you lost her trust when you left for an extended period of time and you will have to reestablish that trust by more or less starting from scratch, treat her as if you just got her and start earning her trust, realize it may take some time for things move slow in grey time. Don't take it personally when she wants to bite you as she is just reacting to the possibility that you may leave her again but time and patience will bring her around. Don't force her to do what she doesn't want to do for now, just interact with her and let her know you care and will be there for her but she will come to you when she feels she can trust you again. You can help by offering her treats and being there talking to her, soon she will want to be with you and she will come seeking you out but let it be her decision, you have to earn that trust and sometimes it can be a long and difficult process but well worth it when it happens. Good luck to you and keep us posted as to how it progresses with her. She is a lovely grey.

[Devin Corso]

Thank you so much all of you for your kind and helpful advice, I will make sure to follow it closely! I found that she likes carrots as treats!

Two questions:

1) What signs/signals/behaviors should I look for in some time that she is telling me that she is ready to interact with touch again?

2) Can I feed her and my conure grapes? I know grapes are poisonous to dogs, I have read about what is poisonous to birds, and don't see grapes on the list, but want to make sure.

[Acappella]

Grapes are fine as a treat but only a couple a week because they have a lot of sugar and no nutritional value. As for signs, just look for how close she will let you get your hand before she fluffs up, pins, and otherwise takes an aggressive posture. Just be prepared. It could take weeks of sucking up. I got Dorian when his mommy got breast cancer and 'dissapeared' from his world for weeks. When she got back he wanted nothing to do with her, and she decided, since he'd adopted me as his person, that she would sell him to me rather than do the work to get back in his good graces. It could be some hard slogging before your baby wants contact with you again. You can always come here to vent and for encouragement. We'll be here for you!

[SRSeedBurners]

You might try taking advantage of that magical time in the evening when they are more docile and lovable. Greycie can be nasty and bitey all day long but I can almost always depend on her cuddly time to reconnect. We had a period of time where she was a pill all day everyday but she seems to have settled.

[Greywings]

I agree with the earning her trust back routine. Limit interactions to speaking to her, reading a colorful book to her & showing her the pictures, singing or dancing to music and treat giving. Until she relaxes I would not even request a step up, let her come to you.

[samansad]

One thing I learned from Alex is that if he brings upper part of his beak towards me it means he is gentle and kind but if he goes towards me with front of his beak he is getting ready to bite.

Alex used to bite but I followed suggestion from our friends in this forum and I learned to spend time with him while I am not too close to him and wait for him to come to me. It has been more than 2 weeks that Alex does not bite me anymore and if he doesn't like what I am doing either he goes away or with top of his beak he pushes me away or he bite his cage.

 

Some people are saying that being with Grey is like being with a kid and I say getting a Grey to like you, is like courting a girl. I am not saying that girls are mean. No please don't get me wrong. I am saying that as a guy we do all we can, without expecting anything in return just with a hope that she will like us. That is how I treat Alex.

Another thing I learned, is walking fast towards Alex makes him freaks out and gets ready to react. So Whenever I want to approach him, I tell him from far that I am going towards him and start talking to him from far and look at his body language. If he doesn't like then I show a treat and go towards him, then if he is happy, I go and play with him and gives him the treat. If by seeing the treat, he still shows that he is not happy, I just give him the treat and leave him alone. I think that made him realize that I don't approach him no matter what but I respect him and his space.

Edited July 7, 2015 by samansad
miss type

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

I disagree with walking towards him fast and freaking him out! What is the point? Walk to him slowly, talking, then stand still.... and LISTEN! Be patient, and listen to your bird. We as a family, learned there was nothing we could do to rush Sophie! ALWAYS be patient, and listen to your bird. Nancy

[neoow]

I disagree with walking towards him fast and freaking him out! What is the point? Walk to him slowly, talking, then stand still.... and LISTEN! Be patient, and listen to your bird. We as a family, learned there was nothing we could do to rush Sophie! ALWAYS be patient, and listen to your bird. Nancy

 

I don't think samansad was suggesting to deliberatly walk fast towards a parrot- I think he was saying that he learned that if he moved too quickly around Alex, he got freaked out. So now he is aware that Alex will freak out if he suddenly moves too quickly towards him, he announces his movements before they happen so Alex knows what's going on.

 

Not sure if I'm right, it's just how I read it

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

So sorry! Nancy

[samansad]

I don't think samansad was suggesting to deliberatly walk fast towards a parrot- I think he was saying that he learned that if he moved too quickly around Alex, he got freaked out. So now he is aware that Alex will freak out if he suddenly moves too quickly towards him, he announces his movements before they happen so Alex knows what's going on.

 

Not sure if I'm right, it's just how I read it

 

You got me right. That is exactly what I meant Sorry if my English is not so good

[samansad]

So sorry! Nancy

 

Don't worry

[Devin Corso]

I have a question. I'm assuming that this body language is her showing that she is still very angry with me and wants me bite me. I'm wanting to confirm and ask for advice.

 

When I go up to her cage and talk to her her feathers are pressed to her body, her wings are out a little bit, and she starts biting each of her toys while looking me right in the eye. Her pupils go back and forth between big and small.

 

Another body language that I don't understand is she shakes her feathers when I go up to her cage. But not like a tail wag, it is like she is shivering from being cold. It confuses me more because she did that before I went to college when she was super relaxed and happy. I mean feathers puffed and falling asleep on her stand happy.

 

What is going on? Do you have any advice of what to do?

[Acappella]

Have you read the "Body Language Most Frequently Seen" Sticky in this forum room just a couple of spots above your post? There's a lot of good information there. I'd say you're interpreting her current body language right, she's still angry. How close can you get before she starts this? Set up camp at that spot and gradually try moving closer. It's a way to say you're respecting the boundary she's set for you.

[Devin Corso]

I read the thread on body language just now. It was FANTASTIC! I have looked long and hard for information on parrot body language with little luck. Thank you so much. That explains why her feathers were shaking before I went to college (probably turned on the AC or something) and after college more of the wings rather than chest feathers because she is anxious and angry.

 

I just went to her cage and really cooed to her. I can stand directly in front of her cage with her being comfortable. (I think).

I got some SUPER mixed body language though. I will list it. I don't know if anyone knows what it could mean, or perhaps if I am ready to take her out and cuddle.

In order: #. order it happened in Body language (what I think it means)

1. Standing tall (dominance/aggression)

2. Biting toys while dancing (I want to bite you/letting out anger/I'm angry at you/I want to play?? :confused:)

3. Coming over to me (I want to interact with you)

4. Regurgitating movements (I love you)

5. Bit the cage once (I want to bite you/letting out anger/I am angry at you)

 

So as you can see a lot of mixed messages. Can you decode any of them? I want to be more informed so I can interact and make our relationship better. I really want to mend this break, she is my baby.

[samansad]

Personally after having different parrot and now a Grey, I learned body language can have different meaning in different parrots. I think it depends on their past life. One thing is clear in your situation is, you missed one portion of her life. You don't know what exactly happened to her and you don't know what new behavior she developed during that time. I suggest to focus on learning them. I don't think you can generalize body language.

Alex do almost all of these things.

For example when he bites his cage it doesn't always means he is angry. Sometimes he is trying to get my intention. If he is angry and bite the cage then he keep doing it even if I talk to him. But if he is trying to get my attention, he stop and come towards me as soon as I start talking to him. Sometimes he bites his cage and remain there, and it means come and kiss me even if I am in the cage.

Biting toys can be anger and can be excitement. Like last night I made new toy for Alex and he ran towards it when I placed in his cage to play with it. But then I felt I should have place it in a better position and as soon as I wanted to reach to move the toy he start biting it with anger.

 

Also Greys can be nervous and if they are nervous then they act so confusing. They might be angry now and happy second later. Alex still has his swing mood.

[Devin Corso]

I got Korra as a baby though, when I left for college she was about 1 1/2 years old. I know my mom takes fantastic care of the birds, so I haven't missed any part of her life.

 

While I was putting food in her bowl today, she climbed out of the "food door" and lurched forward to try and bit me hard 10+ times. So I'm not ready to take her out quite yet.

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

Devin Corso... In the end... you need to re-establish your relationship. It shouldn't take long, but u have to be committed. Sophie has had relationships with my two kids at college, so I understand the difficulty it takes to continue with the trust.In the end... if one kid comes home from college, that she hasn't seen in a year... she will " knock u over", to get to them! She doesn't have to see them... she just has to hear from them weekly!

It doesn't take Sophie long, to reestablish her trust! Routine and consistensy... Nancy

[katana600]

Devin, you didn't miss her life in the sense that you were out of touch because you kept up her her. Also she was presumably living with you and your mom so her life was similar to when you were home. Looking at it from her perspective and life stage, she was transitioning from being a baby to her "teen years". In the wild she is about the age of leaving the primary nest and integrating into the greater family flock. They may look at their human caretaker as "mama" during baby growth and then change loyalties as they look at a "mate" relationship. When we take them out of the wild, we hatch them and feed them and they consider humans as their flock.

 

It may not be so much about your absence as about her reaching a maturity stage. Sometimes our babies go through the adolescent stage where they were cuddly and compliant to developing their adult preferences. Many of us have gone through that with our greys without any time of separation. A lot of us are wistful for those cuddly baby days because many greys are far less tolerant of holding or cuddling once they reach adulthood. Just as her eyes changed from black to silver to straw yellow, she also has changed from dependence and needing reassurance to being independent and willful. It's really hard with the combination of your being away so you didn't see it gradually and with tiny changes of watching your baby take steps into the big world. Instead, to you it is as if all those changes took place in a fast forward time lapse. Give her time and respect her choices. It seems so easy to say not to take it personally because it hurts, emotionally and in your case physically from her bites. Take your time and meet her where she is. Your mom is going through something similar as I did with our girls. The kids leave for college and right before our eyes they change into adults and are ready to make their own way independently. We didn't lose them, but its hard just the same to let go of the "child" and embrace the adult we worked so hard to nurture to this new level.

[neoow]

Devin, you didn't miss her life in the sense that you were out of touch because you kept up her her. Also she was presumably living with you and your mom so her life was similar to when you were home. Looking at it from her perspective and life stage, she was transitioning from being a baby to her "teen years". In the wild she is about the age of leaving the primary nest and integrating into the greater family flock. They may look at their human caretaker as "mama" during baby growth and then change loyalties as they look at a "mate" relationship. When we take them out of the wild, we hatch them and feed them and they consider humans as their flock.

 

It may not be so much about your absence as about her reaching a maturity stage. Sometimes our babies go through the adolescent stage where they were cuddly and compliant to developing their adult preferences. Many of us have gone through that with our greys without any time of separation. A lot of us are wistful for those cuddly baby days because many greys are far less tolerant of holding or cuddling once they reach adulthood. Just as her eyes changed from black to silver to straw yellow, she also has changed from dependence and needing reassurance to being independent and willful. It's really hard with the combination of your being away so you didn't see it gradually and with tiny changes of watching your baby take steps into the big world. Instead, to you it is as if all those changes took place in a fast forward time lapse. Give her time and respect her choices. It seems so easy to say not to take it personally because it hurts, emotionally and in your case physically from her bites. Take your time and meet her where she is. Your mom is going through something similar as I did with our girls. The kids leave for college and right before our eyes they change into adults and are ready to make their own way independently. We didn't lose them, but its hard just the same to let go of the "child" and embrace the adult we worked so hard to nurture to this new level.

 

That is an awesome explanation. Really well put.

[Luvparrots]

Devin, first relax. Your grey is "getting even" with you for "abandoning" her. Or at least she feels that way. Relax and start anew. Treat her as you would normally and let her set the pace of your relationship. Talk to her and tell her what you are doing. Tell her when you leave the house and say hello when you return. Relax and enjoy your smart and intelligent friend. Give her a chance to "forgive you." Greys sense our emotions so relax and enjoy.

[kins2321@yahoo.com]

luvparrots said it well! Let them forgive and forget.They DO for give quickly! Just commit, and never be afraid! Be committed and provide routine. Nancy