Tinkerbell Mash - Best food by far for your Grey

[shanlung]

For all it is worth.

 

The best food by far for your parrot will be Tinkerbell mash, a food that you make with love and care for your parrot. No additives or shelf life extenders in it.

 

Morning with Harry & the decision// Sultan of Oman Palace// Tinkerbell Mash Batch 7

http://shanlung.livejournal.com/109957.html

 

 

Warmest regards

 

Shanlung

山 龍

 

http://www.geocities.com/shanlung9/

 

ps

 

You know why the mash I made need to be kept in the freezer?

With only one baggie at a time being thawed and must be kept in the fridge as well?

 

Whereas what you buy in a box need not be in the freezer? Here is why

 

Here is the list of the common additives found in pellets.

 

Do have fun reading that.

 

 

Ethoxyquin: Is listed and identified as a harsh hazardous chemical by OSHA. It was originally used to preserve rubber. This is not allowed in human food and some feel it is not a chemical that they want in their bird food. The FDA has asked manufacturers for voluntary reduction in its use in pet foods and is in the process of deciding whether or not to ban the use of it altogether. Bird's bodies can not get rid of it like a dog or cat and it then builds up and causes problems. Ethoxyquin promotes kidney carcinogenesis, significantly increases the incidence of stomach tumors, enhanced bladder carcinogenesis and urinary bladder carcinogenesis. Cancers of this type are the most lethal and fastest acting, the swiftest effects being seen among animals.

 

Artificial Colors: Most people are aware of toxic side effects of artificial colors and flavors from coal tar derivatives such as Red #40, a possible carcinogen, and Yellow #6, which causes sensitivity to fatal viruses in animals. Artificial colors DO cause yellow feather discoloration in Eclectus.

 

BHT/BHA: These petroleum products are used to stabilize fats in foods. In the process of metabolizing BHA and BHT, chemical changes occur in the body. These changes have caused reduced growth rates and they inhibit white blood cell stimulation. In pets, they can exhibit reactions such as skin blisters, hemorrhaging of the eye, weakness, discomfort in breathing, a reduction of the body's own antioxidant enzyme, glutathione peroxidase and may cause cancer. According to Dr. Wendell Belfield, DVM, a practicing vet for some 26 years, both BHA and BHT are known to cause liver and kidney dysfunction and are banned in some European countries.

 

Propylene Glycol: Used as a de-icing fluid for airplanes, this chemical is added to food and skin products to maintain texture and moisture as well as inhibiting bacteria growth in products. It also inhibits the growth of friendly bacteria in the digestive system by decreasing the amount of moisture in the intestinal tract leading to constipation and cancer. It can affect the liver and kidneys and causes the destruction of red blood cells.

 

Salt: Added as a preservative, salt can irritate the stomach lining, cause increased thirst and aggravate heart and kidney problems through fluid retention.

 

Sodium Nitrite: Used in the curing of meats, this substance participates in a chemical reaction in the body that becomes carcinogenic. It is used also in pet foods to add color.

 

Sugar and other Sweeteners: The most common sweeteners in pet/bird foods are beet sugar, corn sugar, molasses and sucrose. They are used as preservatives and have the side effect of creating sugar addicts in pets. They require almost no digestion and are rapidly absorbed into the blood stream. These will provide sugar highs (just as humans experience) and subsequent lows (moodiness), inhibit the proper growth of friendly intestinal bacteria and they virtually shut down the digestive system while being processed. Sugar can also contribute to diabetes and hypoglycemia, cataract development, obesity and arthritis.

 

Go to your cupboard and get your pellets out and find out how many of these additives are in the brand you buy. If there is something else on the ingredients list and you don't know what it is, FIND OUT.

 

Do your research or ask questions of someone who can find out for you. Did you see the natural ingredients on your pellet ingredients list? Why not feed those items in their fresh, natural state instead?

[shanlung]

Further variation on that mash batch 7.

 

I believe the mash can remain good for the entire day. At least in Riamfada's room kept at 24-25C.

 

Read the report done on 11 & 14 June 2010 and you decide for yourself.

 

Month of soccer // Cyclone Phet & Riamfada neighbourhood hide & seek // Mash eating

http://shanlung.livejournal.com/115514.html

 

Hand of Clod //3 hour and day old Mash // Outdoor hide&seek recalls

http://shanlung.livejournal.com/115814.html

 

 

 

See also the making of Tinkerbell mash batch 8

with changes and further improvement on batch 7

Iceland and Goldman // Jebel Akhdar // Tinkerbell mash batch 8

http://shanlung.livejournal.com/114545.html

 

 

 

see the making of Tinkerbell Mash Batch 9

with changes and further improvement on batch 8

Pakistan//mind of parrot//Tinkerbell Mash Batch 9//Riamfada pulling up cup//Villa walkabout

http://shanlung.livejournal.com/119016.html

 

and kitty mash as well

Pakistan//Tinkerbell Kitty Mash//Dommie at the beach Ramadhan 2010 //Villa walkabout 2

http://shanlung.livejournal.com/119237.html

 

 

 

Warmest regards

 

Shanlung

山 龍

 

http://www.geocities.com/shanlung9/

[shanlung]

In another thread here, I find it frightening the way people in white coat, using their mythical authority as people that know promote commercial bird food.

 

I had an avian vet tech tell me last week that I should only feed Harrison's pellets and nothing else. He said no fruits, no veggies, no nuts....only Harrison's. He tried to convince me that the pellets were better, safer and more healthy than fresh veggies. When I asked about where to buy this magical food, he said "Oh, we sell it here. Only vet offices sell it".

Ummmm, I just have a hard time believing that pellets should replace all other food. Variety seems healthier to me. Mille has a limited list of veggies/fruits that she'll eat so I use pellets to supplement her diet. I also trick her by making a yam based mash with carrots, broccoli and other veggies hidden it it. She doesn't like nuts either. So I get to experiment in the kitchen until I find healthy foods she'll eat. Fun for both of us!

 

From

 

• seed mix to pellet diet conversion
  

http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?191616-seed-mix-to-pellet-diet-conversion/page2

 

Up to recent time, and even now, companies have/had been using the additives in their birdie (and kitty) pellets to promote long shelf life.

 

In any vet office, you will probably find a huge section of their front office selling those birdie/kitty/doggie pellets , or promoting that directly in hard sell like above , or indirectly on their display shelves .

 

Some companies might even have stopped using those additives, using other kind of additives that they claim are safer. Just how safe I do not wish to discuss.

 

To me, that they used such additives in their birdie pellets in the past make it difficult for me to dare to trust them even into the future not to talk about the present now.

 

Should Madoff get a Presidential pardon and out of jail and set up a Madoff Bank in future, will you put your money again in Madoff Bank?

 

Again your choice to do so.

 

Or your choice to see in above how Tinkerbell Mash is made and think of doing similar stuff for your birdie or kitty or doggie.

[Morana]

Did you see the natural ingredients on your pellet ingredients list?

Yes, my pellets have sea salt.

 

Could you please tell me what exactly is Tinkerbell Mash?

[shanlung]

Morning with Harry & the decision// Sultan of Oman Palace// Tinkerbell Mash Batch 7

http://shanlung.livejournal.com/109957.html

 

You can see explicitly what is Tinkerbell Mash, and how to make it step by step with love and care.

The best food for your birdie and the cheapest as well.

[Morana]

Uh,first I'll have to devote few hours in translating all those names of the beans,other stuff and then writing down the whole recipe. There are some things I don't understand and didn't find translation for it yet so if I don't find it I'll appreciate if you could explain(?). Also, we have a baby freezer so 'll have to do sooo much less of the Tinkerbell Mash ™. I saw there is TM8 and 9 but cannot sit any longer (I'm in too much pain) and read so please tell me, should I skip reading about TM8 and go directly to 9? Or would it be wise to first learn to cook TM7?

 

And did I missed whom you gave your pretty bird or what?! can't find it.. *puzzled* Whom did you give her to?

[shanlung]

Morana,

 

Go directly to

 

Pakistan//mind of parrot//Tinkerbell Mash Batch 9//Riamfada pulling up cup//Villa walkabout

http://shanlung.livejournal.com/119016.html

 

If your freezer is small, I suggest you do a quarter portion, using a quarter of everything. Even if you do not get all the ingredients, go on ahead with all the beans and cereals that you can get in your country. The mash that you make will still be much better than the commercial pellets, any commercial pellets.

 

Riamfada is now with the Jabri family and that whole family from grandmother to Jabri and wife to daughters and baby all in love with her. She flown to all of them and nice to all and especially nice to Mrs Jabri and Aseeyah. I made many visits to the Jabri family to ensure the transition to them will be good and they in turn, came often to my place as well.

 

Read

Riamfada around neighbourhood // Mrs Jabri harnessing Riamfada // Riamfada as perch maker

http://shanlung.livejournal.com/120555.html

The final handling over and goodbye here.

 

Riamfada freeflight hide&seek // When I am with her, am I with her? // Handing over sequence

http://shanlung.livejournal.com/121091.html

Riamfada last few neighbourhood walks //Riamfada at home on perches// Dommie last neighbourhood walk

http://shanlung.livejournal.com/121502.html

Paw prints in the sand

http://shanlung.livejournal.com/121818.html

Final handover

http://shanlung.livejournal.com/122016.html

[Morana]

Hi all! I am really interested about making the TM but I did have a lot of questions after reading,and rereading, and rereading ;-) Shanlungs links so as he graciously offered to help me through all the steps I wrote him a pm which I'm gonna paste here and he'll answer so everyone can benefit. It is written a bit in my "not understanding English that great" style so sorry for the typos and oddly constructed sentences;-)

And yes, I forgot to mention, these questions are mostly about TM 7!

Here goes:

 

"Tink mash

 

Hi!

I have a huge problem with the recipe.. :-(

The dictionaries I have (on line and at home) don't know how to translate most of the ingredients so I tried Wikipedia and Google images. With images I recognized some things from the list but most of it I am guessing. Some just look the same to me but I know it isn't the same. So here come my questions... I really have all sorts of questions.. Please try to explain the best you can. Maybe include pictures..(?)

 

1) Doesn't sweet corn have large amount of sugar? Isn't that harmful for the birds?

2) I don't know if we have in our stores frozen sweet corn (I never saw any). Can I buy fresh and then freeze it? Is there a process which I need to follow or I can just put it in the fridge? why does it need to be frozen in the first place?

3) I newer saw a sweet potato so I don't think we have any. Can I use something else instead?

4) When I saw pictures of kidney beans I thought it was red bean, so what is the difference between those two? How will I recognize them (from each other)?

5) When I saw pictures of lima beans and Great Northern white beans I thought they are the same, so what is the difference between those two? How will I recognize them (from each other)?

6) If I except something from the recipe, do I need to compensate with something else?

7) What are green beans? This: http://www.ifood.tv/blog/four-tasty-...of-green-beans ? Or does it has to do with peas?

8) There are peas in the picture but I haven't seen in the recipe that it says peas .. So how much peas? Or you want peas in a bean and that would then be answer to question number 7? So what do I do with the bean? throw it away?

9) Brown crushed barley? I think I know what barley is? But brown? Are there some other kind? I think I eat that for breakfast:-)

10) I don't know the difference between brown glutinious rice and brown rice? Glutinous means sticky, right? How can rice be sticky?

11) I know what oat is, but what is brown rolled oat?

12) Have no idea what are brown rolled wheat berries. Picture?

13) Do i "peel" the shell of a Brazilian nut, right?-and how am I gonna do that? I saw them in a seed mix but don't know where can I buy just them. Any suggestions?

14) Now question about making TM. This is what I understood but I need exact time frame:

In the morning I soak all the beans/peas for 8-10hours. Then I wash them/rinse and drain them. That is in the evening of the same day. I leave them like them in separate containers. Next morning, lunch time, dinner, for ten minutes I soak them again and then wash them/rinse and drain them. How many days do I need to repeat that process three times a day?

Then I don't know when do I need to put peas and black beans in the fridge. How long do I need to keep them there? Also, I don't know when do I need to take a third of sweet corn and green beans and red beans and peas. Am I right to think that I pour boiling water over that? Now I put all the beans/peas in a pot and I keep it boiling for 5minutes. Remove icky scum while cooking. Then I cool it down. I blend all that was cooking and put it back in the pot and add water if it is too thick. Now I add that third of sweet corn and green beans and red beans and peas. Do I add millet now? I let it boil again and cook it for 10 more minutes. Do I continue to cook when I add grated sweet potatoes and grated carrots? Now I add wheat germ. At this time is pot still boiling? Is it all together ten minutes or this last two steps prolong the cooking period? Don't we kill all the vitamins with cooking?

I removed the pot and wrap towels around the pot. Leave it overnight. When did I start to cook all this? I serve with veggies and fruit which I put in the mash?

If I wanted to add Brazilian nuts and almonds I would do that when liquidizing, right?

 

These are the questions for now:-D

Regards,

 

Morana "

Edited February 8, 2011 by Morana

[Morana]

PS: Shanlung, go check your last pm! ;-)

[shanlung]

1) Doesn't sweet corn have large amount of sugar? Isn't that harmful for the birds?

 

Fruits that you give your birdie such as apples, strawberries, etc etc have sugar in it. When the sweetcorn is a tiny fraction of the overall mash, I do not think we have to be concerned

 

2) I don't know if we have in our stores frozen sweet corn (I never saw any). Can I buy fresh and then freeze it? Is there a process which I need to follow or I can just put it in the fridge? why does it need to be frozen in the first place?

 

If you do not have sweet corn, use dry corn. In which case use 50 grams of dry corn, or 100 grams if the corn is not dry. I used frozen sweet corn as that was what I bought.

 

 

3) I newer saw a sweet potato so I don't think we have any. Can I use something else instead?

 

I think sweet potato will be better . If you cannot get that, use potatoes.

Google for photos of sweet potatoes

4) When I saw pictures of kidney beans I thought it was red bean, so what is the difference between those two? How will I recognize them (from each other)?

 

 

Kidney beans are big looking red beans

 

5) When I saw pictures of lima beans and Great Northern white beans I thought they are the same, so what is the difference between those two? How will I recognize them (from each other)?

 

 

Lima beans are big looking white beans.

 

 

6) If I except something from the recipe, do I need to compensate with something else?

 

You do not need to. Or you can compensate by more of similar type. If you cannot get glutinous rice, use double portion of regular rice

 

 

If no great northen white beans , use more black eyed beans. Or no need to substitute even.

 

 

7) What are green beans? This: http://www.ifood.tv/blog/four-tasty-...of-green-beans ? Or does it has to do with peas?

 

Grren beans above below the peas and next to the red beans

 

Look into the flickr folder with many more photos

Preparing Tinkerbell Mash 7

 

8) There are peas in the picture but I haven't seen in the recipe that it says peas .. So how much peas? Or you want peas in a bean and that would then be answer to question number 7? So what do I do with the bean? throw it away?

 

Thank you. I forgot to add the peas into the recipe even though it was clear my photos included that. I since changed the Livejournal and credited you for that discovery

9) Brown crushed barley? I think I know what barley is? But brown? Are there some other kind? I think I eat that for breakfast:-)

 

Brown cereals are more healthy than refined cereals. Use brown where you can.

 

10) I don't know the difference between brown glutinious rice and brown rice? Glutinous means sticky, right? How can rice be sticky?

 

Glutinous rice is common in Asia. Double the rice quantity or use more oats/wheat/barley

11) I know what oat is, but what is brown rolled oat?

 

Use breakfast oats from the can and brown in color.

12) Have no idea what are brown rolled wheat berries. Picture?

 

 

brown rolled oats, wheat and barley

13) Do i "peel" the shell of a Brazilian nut, right?-and how am I gonna do that? I saw them in a seed mix but don't know where can I buy just them. Any suggestions?

 

No need for brazilian nuts if not available.

 

14) Now question about making TM. This is what I understood but I need exact time frame:

In the morning I soak all the beans/peas for 8-10hours. Then I wash them/rinse and drain them. That is in the evening of the same day. I leave them like them in separate containers. Next morning, lunch time, dinner, for ten minutes I soak them again and then wash them/rinse and drain them. How many days do I need to repeat that process three times a day?

 

Continuous soaking of beans can make them rot. So make sure you drain them after the soaking. I repeat this for 3 days from when I started adding water to when I cook them all together.

 

 

Then I don't know when do I need to put peas and black beans in the fridge. How long do I need to keep them there?

 

If the roots start to appear and about ¼ to ½ inch long, you put them into the fridge to slow the germinating process until the time of the cooking.

 

 

Also, I don't know when do I need to take a third of sweet corn and green beans and red beans and peas. Am I right to think that I pour boiling water over that?

 

You remove 1/3 to ¼ just before the time of cooking and liquidizing them. I have some whole green beans peas etc etc to give texture. These are safe beans unlike kidney, lima etc which must be thoroughly cooked.

 

 

Now I put all the beans/peas in a pot and I keep it boiling for 5minutes. Remove icky scum while cooking. Then I cool it down. I blend all that was cooking and put it back in the pot and add water if it is too thick. Now I add that third of sweet corn and green beans and red beans and peas. Do I add millet now?

 

Yes. Add the wheat germ now too if you like.

 

I let it boil again and cook it for 10 more minutes. Do I continue to cook when I add grated sweet potatoes and grated carrots?

 

Yes. You then add the cereals with the pot still on the fire.

 

Keep stirring.

 

It will be fast to add the grated carrots and sweet potatoes.

 

When the pot is boiling , you can take it off the stove.

 

 

 

Now I add wheat germ. At this time is pot still boiling? Is it all together ten minutes or this last two steps prolong the cooking period? Don't we kill all the vitamins with cooking?

 

Beause of the liquidizing of the beans, the cooking time is reduced to 10 minutes. If not, those beans must be cooked for an hour which will kill all the vitamins.

 

I removed the pot and wrap towels around the pot. Leave it overnight. When did I start to cook all this?

 

The pot continued to cook in its own heat. By next morning, it will be cool enough for packaging.

 

 

I serve with veggies and fruit which I put in the mash?

 

Vary the veggies as you like and as to season, together with fruits. I prefer to put fruits and veggies in foraging points. You can mix them all up with mash.

 

If I wanted to add Brazilian nuts and almonds I would do that when liquidizing, right?

 

Yes. But not necessary for brazil nuts and almonds. If I make the next batch of mash, I will use groundnuts, human grade, and parboiled for that 5 minutes with rest of beans before liquidizing.

[Morana]

Tnx for the answers:-)

Just one thing, what are the groundnuts? I get a picture of a peanut when I enter it in Google :-S

[judygram]

what are the groundnuts?

I think he may have meant ground nuts, not a type of nut but ground up so as to mix in the mash but he will correct me if I am wrong.

[Morana]

So today is the day that I start my first TM batch! :-)

Here are some pictures of stuff I bought but don't ask me to translate any beans names..it would be painful, both for me and you reading it.. :-P

Now is not the season of peas so I bought frozen ones but I don't think that is such a brilliant choice. Can anyone please comment on that? There is also no sweet corn (and especially not frozen one). I did 10 circles around market and nearly found nothing so I circled the town for bio stores and found one. They are very scarce here.I froze my a.. off! Most of the stuff were bought there. Sweet potato also. No wonder I never saw it before! Lol We don't have that on markets..

I have almonds at home (our own).. Bought also soy germs but I didn't figure out on time that it isn't just soy beans in it.. There is also a bit of brown sugar, walnuts,a bit of salt, and natural aroma of vanilla and cinema!! I'm not really inclined to use that.. I know!-how could I bought that in the first place!? Well, I didn't read whole content. When I saw it said soy germs I was so ecstatic that I forgot to check..:-S ..and it was the only thing there with a name soy germs so.. :-P

Didn't find any kidney beans tho...

Wish me wisdom and luck not to poison my beautiful Zak! :-D

 

PS: that is also why I didn't buy lima beans.. I'm still a bit too paranoid for that..;-)

 

PSS: and people..any comments would be appreciated ;-)

 

[Morana]

Well, the mash is done. Now I just have to get Zakica to eat it! ;-P Lol

Soon I'll be posting ingredients I put in my batch No1 and some pictures:-)

[Greywings]

I would begin with a serving of only the mash as the first meal of the day. Presenting a new food when hungriest makes the introduction as little faster. Another approach is to mix in with what he is used to eating.

[Morana]

I tried both- didn't work.. Tomorrow I'll try again:-)

However we had a breakthrough today!-Zak ate a carrot,and a big part of it at that! :-D He ate a bit of oat meal as well but not so much.. We'll try that tomorrow too:-)

[shanlung]

Bon appetite!

 

If you all read my batches of TInkerbell Mash from 1 to 8, you would have read of the initial resistance of Riamfada for the first couple of days to the mash. Riam had to be coaxed into acceptance.

 

It was only Batch 9 that she dug into that from the first day.

 

Groundnuts = peanuts with skin still on and shells off.

 

Batch 2 Tinkerbell Kitty mash made from Ivan who is happily munching into it.

Just like kitty mash recipe except I used 120 grams of groundnuts instead of mix of almond/brazil nuts.

 

I mixed in 400 grams of minced beef, 200 grams of minced chicken and 150 grams of dried anchovies (for the calcium in fish bones) , all liquidized with the beans.

 

Batch 2 was cooked and frozen a couple days ago. And that will also be the insectivore mash that I be given to my insectivore green leaf bird coming to me tomorrow.

[lino]

Hi, I'm trying on the recepie too, but have some doubt.

With those beans, u are going to have to cook it for a long time. Will that destroy alot of nutrients and mineral in it?

As far as I study in school, alot of vitamins and minerals are broken down by 50 degree celsius.

So is it better to feed raw?

 

It will spoil pretty fast after thawing and remembering that it is very highly nutritious and WET, it will attact alot of bacteria growth in a short period of time. How do I prevent that? I think if u serve it in the morning the food will already foul by 3 or 4 pm

So do we risk the bird eating the spoil mashed in the evening when we r out to work?

[Morana]

I never have the time to finish what I wanted to ask/say about the TM. So today, here is just a few comments/questions/pictures. First, I need to say that I had to discontinue giving Zak the TM when he started to cough because we even suspected allergies. Well, to be perfectly honest, I discontinued a lots of things because I wanted to be on a safe side. Not that I really believed that TM could be the cause but never the less. The first thing I brought back was the calcium (Calcium Lux) and Zak seemed not to respond to it in a bad way at all. I waited a bit, and introduced TM again. No negative response with which I was really pleased, but not surprised;-) Now I am presented with a kind of a problem. Zak will get small quantities of TM at once, so it wouldn't spoil throughout the day and because I noticed he likes his TM only warm!??? I can't reheat the bloody thing when I am at work, now can I! *giggle* Now seriously, how will I get him to eat it cold? Any suggestions? Again, he is not fully accustomed to TM yet and sometimes just picks a bit and throws away the rest but we are hanging on to it ;-) He likes his carrots more and more too, so we are trying to eat healthy. Well, healthier...

Here are our pic from our first batch of TM:

 

 

 

I was really happy when I saw these:

 

Zak was inspecting (from my shoulder) his TM all the time...probably to prevent me messing it up;-)

 

 

 

We had a cuttle fish for lunch one day so I saved and grinded the bones:

The people giggled a bit when I went to the market and into the bio shop with a sheet of paper with pictures of beans and nuts on it ;-)

 

[shanlung]

*Boot*

 

Kicking up for sake of birdies and bon appetite to them.

[SRSeedBurners]

Thanks for bumping. The OP is before my time here and I've never seen it. Definitely something I would like to try. We do sprouts here but always looking for something to mix things up. I didn't know about the issue with lima beans. We take frozen lima beans and microwave or just let them thaw. Plus I eat them almost daily for lunch. I think they're pre-cooked though.

[Asharion]

I've read and re-skimmed through this thread a few times now, it looks like something well worth trying. I have a few questions on it.

How long have you been using the various versions of TM for? Do you think there'd ever be a risk of leaving something out of the diet? (I am going to guess the TM is still supplemented with veggies and treats of fruit, yes?)

How long on average does a single batch of TM last you for? Any idea how long it keeps in the freezer without losing any nutritional value? (not sure if that is a thing or not)

 

Hi, I'm trying on the recepie too, but have some doubt.

With those beans, u are going to have to cook it for a long time. Will that destroy alot of nutrients and mineral in it?

As far as I study in school, alot of vitamins and minerals are broken down by 50 degree celsius.

So is it better to feed raw?

 

It will spoil pretty fast after thawing and remembering that it is very highly nutritious and WET, it will attact alot of bacteria growth in a short period of time. How do I prevent that? I think if u serve it in the morning the food will already foul by 3 or 4 pm

So do we risk the bird eating the spoil mashed in the evening when we r out to work?

 

 

I'm interested in responses to Lino's questions here, too.

[shanlung]

I've read and re-skimmed through this thread a few times now, it looks like something well worth trying. I have a few questions on it.

How long have you been using the various versions of TM for? Do you think there'd ever be a risk of leaving something out of the diet? (I am going to guess the TM is still supplemented with veggies and treats of fruit, yes?)

How long on average does a single batch of TM last you for? Any idea how long it keeps in the freezer without losing any nutritional value? (not sure if that is a thing or not)

 

I'm interested in responses to Lino's questions here, too.

 

Hi Asharion, and to Lino as well hoping you are still here.

 

Thank you for saying you read and re-skimmed this thread a few times now.

I cannot even say what I wrote in this thread (and other threads) is just the tip of an iceberg. After all, iceberg has only 10% of the top showing and 90% of iceberg submerged and out of sight. I like to think what I wrote

in this thread and other threads to be just 1% and 99% in the URLs that I embedded in the thread.

 

But I know many did not click on the URLs (and so do I) and I will extract from the URLs what was written to show you some of the answers you asked. Perhaps the rest might contain answers to questions that you might not even thought of asking.

 

 

I have been using Tinkerbell Mash and all its later variations since 2001 inspired by Mike Burton of Mike's Manna Mash and the correspondence with him until his unfortunate early departure from our world. His memory will live on with each batch of TM in whatever form and done anywhere in the world. I went on to use different variations for my kitties and insectivore and ominvorous straight bill birdies.

 

As to your asking (I am going to guess the TM is still supplemented with veggies and treats of fruit, yes?)

 

A tiny partial extract from

 

Morning with Harry & the decision// Sultan of Oman Palace// Tinkerbell Mash Batch 7

http://shanlung.livejournal.com/109957.html

 

 

The baggies must be kept in the freezer, with one thawed baggie in the fridge.

I feed about 25-30 grams of mash mixed with chopped vege salad/fruits in morning.

Another feed of 25-30 grams of mash mixed with chopped vege salad/fruits when I get back for lunch.

 

In addition some sunflower seeds/almonds/fruits placed in foraging points as well as used as treats for Riamfada.

 

I decided to do without the veges incorporated in the original MMM because of size of my freezer . I felt also fresh veges do not do well in freezing and thawing later.

Seasonal changes in veges /fruits should be catered and altered to make variety and experiments. Disasterous additions looses only a baggie of mash should birdie turn

up snotty nose at that. I normally chop in a couple of hot chili pods as those are very good in minerals and stuff. And birds love chili pods

 

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This is part 1 of 3 as forum complain my mail to be too long. I got to break my answer to you into 3 parts

 

Part 2 follow this

 

 

[shanlung]

part 2 of 3

 

Hi, I'm trying on the recepie too, but have some doubt.

With those beans, u are going to have to cook it for a long time. Will that destroy alot of nutrients and mineral in it?

As far as I study in school, alot of vitamins and minerals are broken down by 50 degree celsius.

So is it better to feed raw?

 

It will spoil pretty fast after thawing and remembering that it is very highly nutritious and WET, it will attact alot of bacteria growth in a short period of time. How do I prevent that? I think if u serve it in the morning the food will already foul by 3 or 4 pm

So do we risk the bird eating the spoil mashed in the evening when we r out to work?

 

I had not answer lino as my appearance in this forum is sporadic and I came back in many many months later and I thought that she been through the links and saw the answers for herself.

But in case that did not happen and as Asharion asked, I extract what I wrote from the URL links embedded here.

As to long cooking with beans, which is why I bought a liquidiser to liquidise the beans to shorten cooking time to a few minutes. You got to read my URL for details.

 

 

Partial extract from

 

I believe the mash can remain good for the entire day. At least in Riamfada's room kept at 24-25C.

Read the report done on 11 & 14 June 2010 and you decide for yourself.

Month of soccer // Cyclone Phet & Riamfada neighbourhood hide & seek // Mash eating

http://shanlung.livejournal.com/115514.html

That extract

 

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Even More of how much mash Riam ate

 

 

 

The explanation of mash measurements and preambles should be read in the last couple of reports.

 

In that Dubai trip, Riamfada showed me clearly she would take mash despite abundance of other food stuff in her room and that she would take the mash despite left over night.

The ambience tenmperature of her room was at 24-25C with her own split unit aircond.

 

The foraging jars in her room still contained lots of sunflower seeds/almonds/brazil nuts I left then for her to eat as she wanted. I had thought she would take from all of the jars. I noticed instead that she would focused on a jar until it was empty before she took from another jar. So the foraging jar on her perch was taken from with empty shells left on the ground below. The the foraging jar on the basket perch was taken from until all empty yesterday. I guess she would be taking from the foraging jar left on the bar perch now.

 

In the past, I thought the mash would sour in 3-4 hours and I would changed the mash when I came back for lunch. This experiment was done in case in future I am unable to be back home for lunch. Indeed, for those reading this too in case they do not get home for lunch to change the mash.

 

In addition, abundance of sun flower seeds/almonds/brazil nuts were left with Riamfada. I continued to include fruits of cherries that she seemed to like.

 

The mash was introduced in the morning and left through the day.

 

I continued to record just how much mash Riam ate measuring that as before.

 

These are the records

 

26 May wed

Riamfada ate 12 grams in the morning.

 

Then 112 grams (bowl is 62 grams) left and was weight at 83 on 28 May Friday afternoon when we got back.

 

She ate 29 grams over Thursday

 

 

Mash changed when I got back from lunch but with other food in abundance in her room

 

 

29 May sat

M=4+6

L=0+10

 

total = 20 gm

 

30 May sun

M=7+4

L=1+ 4

total = 16 gm

 

31 May mon

M=8+15

L=6+3

total = 32 gm

 

1 Jun tue

M=10+9

L=9+ 2

total = 30 gm

 

2 Jun wed

M=2+3

L=3+ 2

total = 10 gm

 

3 Jun thu

M=8+0

L=4+ 4

total = 16 gm

 

4 Jun fri

M=8+5

L=7+ 1

total = 21 gm

 

 

The mash now not replaced during lunch time.

 

 

5 Jun sat

M=10

L=10

total = 20 gm

 

6 Jun sun

M=4+13

The mash was weighed when I came back for lunch at 86 grams. After 30 minutes, I weighed it to find it as 87 grams. I then looked in the bowl and found 7-8 pieces of almonds and brazil nuts. Riam took that from foraging points and flew back to the cage to place them in the mash bowl as parroty joke.

 

I removed those nuts to find weight to be 82 grams or that she ate 4 grams during my lunch period. Final weight at end afternoon was 80 or 2 grams in afternoon

 

L=4+2

total =23 gm

 

7 Jun mon

M=7+4

L=5+ 3

total = 19 gm

 

8 Jun tue

M=0+6

L=0+15

total = 21 gm

 

9 Jun wed

M=1+3

L=4

total = 8 gm

 

 

It was clear the mash stay good for the whole day. In presence of plenty of sunflower seeds, Riam showed she would happily eat the mash through the day.

 

I decided to extend the experiment. I left the mash over the night to see if she would take the mash early in the morning before I woke up to go to her room.

 

 

 

10 Jun thu

 

Riam ate 6 grams of that mash left over the night. Day break at 510 am while I woke up at 655 am

 

I then gave fresh mash

 

 

M=8+2

L=8+0

total = 6+10+8= 24 gm

 

 

11 jun fri today

 

Riam ate 6 grams of that mash left over the night.

 

M=3 grams

 

Riamfada was largely out in living room with me for the morning and afternoon.

 

She is right now on my knee preening herself.

 

It is clear the mash is good at least for 24 hours without refridgeration at room temp of 25C

 

I need not change her mash during lunch. Mash from morning left overnight will still be eaten by her.

 

That will be enough for me. I will not extend experiment further, or bother to report the weighing of the mash anymore.

 

I will record more for my own records.

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This is part 2 of 3 as forum complain my mail to be too long. I got to break my answer to you into 3 parts

 

Part 3 follow this

[shanlung]

Part 3a of 3

 

And then an even more detailed report and rationalisation I made in

Hand of Clod //3 hour and day old Mash // Outdoor hide&seek recalls

http://shanlung.livejournal.com/115814.html

 

The partial extract

 

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3 hour and day old Mash

 

I first like to show Riam parroty joke where she took almonds and brazil nuts from foraging jars to fly back to cage to add to her mash bowl.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The last three reports indicated very clearly Riam ate her mash. Her consumption was not consistent on daily basis. She ate more mash when I removed all other food.

 

But even with lots of sunflower seeds/almonds/brazil nut , she still ate lots of mash.

When I did not replace the mash in the afternoon, she ate similar amount as when I replaced the mash during my lunch return.

 

 

My last report and note taking generated a fair bit of heat towards me in one particular forum. The conventional thinking was that mash would go bad and sour after 3 hours and must be removed to avoid possible poisoning of the birdie. That I am heretical and offended sensibility in suggesting otherwise.

 

I even believed in that thinking of 3 hours limit in the past before.

 

Not withstanding I have the luxury to drive back for lunch, and to change the mash, I wonder about the time when that might not be possible and the mash left there the whole day until I come back from work. And even so, with that 3 hours dateline that people declared will cause fungus and bacteria to multiply to poison your bird, I even had this nagging worry at 10 am if the mash I left at 7am was turning poisonous. And again at 330pm if the mash I left at 1230pm was turning poisonous before I got back at 5 pm

 

I reminded my wife in the past before to remove the mash after three hours but stopped doing that as she often forgot, and I often forgot to remind her. Myself forgetting that 3 hours when I was home myself did not help.

 

That being said, what about others who cannot get back for lunch and what about the mash then?

 

Even for those who can devote 24 hours of life to birdie and need not work or have other life do they go with a stop watch to change the mash? Can they do that on a consistent basis?

 

It was that trip to Dubai and the clear indication that Riam ate mash left over night that sparked my desire to test how long the mash can last.

 

 

I relied on that gourmet of Riamfada. You with greys know how discerning they can be on food. I had taken Riam out for lunch and dinner often enough. We would be given a plate of salad at the beginning. Riam would happily take the cucumber slices earlier on. Then she would refuse to eat the rest of cucumber 20 minutes later. I thought that was because she was full. But I had not reckoned with the waiters and cooks in the restaurants who adored Riamfada. They would go into the kitchen to cut cucumber slices afresh to take a plate to Riamfada. Who then continued to eat those fresh cucumber slices refusing to eat the 20 minutes old slices. Tinkerbell was also particular on her food. If the noodles were not from the best of the noodle shop, she would not eat. If I thawed salmon sashimi kept in freezer, she would that that piece, flew that to Halftail the cat and drop that in front of her. Nothing but the freshest salmon sashimi would do for her. Tests done in sushi shop by sushi chef fan showed she could pick every time the freshest sashimi from plate in front of her to delight of everyone including me.