Sarasota

Would you have broken the contract if she told you to feed the bird pellets only? Nothing else? I told my vet I disagreed and she told me if I wanted the bird I had to sign. So I did. I'm pretty sure she let him go knowing I wasn't going to feed only pellets. BTW, the contracts aren't binding. I've worked in law offices on and off for 15 years - they are pretty meaningless.

Luvparrots, you didn't stray. That is the topic! Our personal experiences color the way we feel about these sorts of things. Personally, I love to hear these stories. There's a lot in the contracts that are great - but, again, how can they be reinforced? Some of them insist that you include pellets and/or seed in a diet. More top topic issues with a lot of people. Many people don't feed pellets at all. My ex-vet (she retired) gave me a contract for my bird that stated I would feed my bird ONLY Roudyboush. And I don't mean, just as a pellet, she insisted that be the ONLY ITEM in my bird's diet. No veggies, no fruit. Nothing. I signed away, went home and gave my very happy parrot a bowl of veggie, grain and bean mash! Therefore, I broke the contract. In theory, she could have removed the bird from my home as there was a 90 grace period. Obviously, it didn't happen. I think Judy stated it very eloquently: it's a ludicrous thing to put in a contract as a condition of adoption, and even more ludicrous to enforce!

Yikes! That's way too far. I hope Pikachu can help you out...I'd be on the edge of my seat not knowing where the closest avian vet was!

Take care of yourself, Sweetie! The kids need you. I swear my birds can sense my, ahem (sorry lads), my cycle. Luckily, I'm heading into an early end (I'm only 43, but I welcome it for sure!)

That's the wonderful (and difficult) thing about crows, they imprint so easily to humans. Many rehabbers will release crows that continue to live on or near their property - for life. It's hard to resist loving up a crow - but in wildlife rehab you have to shut off that part of you. I've have no trouble rehabbing songbirds (other than Starlings!) and seabirds....but I'd be an AWFUL corvid rescurer. They'd be lined up on my sofa watching TV and drinking Diet Coke.

Here are a few examples: I will not intentionally allow my bird to become flighted and will make every effort to keep his/her wing feathers clipped. and Adopter will NOT release the Bird into the wild and will take all appropriate measures to prevent the escape of the Bird to include keeping the Bird’s wings clipped sufficient to prevent flight. And here is one where the decision is left to the Adopter...with warnings: I understand that it is my choice as to whether I clip the bird’s wings or not. There are pro’s and con’s to clipping or not clipping and I will make the most informed decision possible based on my research. I do understand that just because a bird has clipped wings DOES NOT MEAN he can’t fly. I agree to ALWAYS have the bird in a carrier or on a leash if moving him into an outside environment. And just to inject a little bit of levity - my personal favorite. We cannot guarantee that the bird will not bite.

I don't want to point anyone out (in fact, I don't personally know the rescues - I just did a global internet search for "Parrot Adoption Contract") - but they are online. Check them out. They also have provisions for having toys, keeping cages clean, hiring an expert if the bird has a behavior you don't like/can't change the biting, screaming, etc. I don't remember it being in Burt's contract. I'm pretty sure it's not because it would have caught my attention. The contract isn't actually legally enforceable. BUT, an organization can claim that it is and reclaim a bird for being free flighted if the owner didn't know any better. Oh! One rescue had a provision that you could not make any money off the bird (separate from breeding or selling). Huh? If I got a rescue bird and decided to train it for presentations and/or write a book about it - I would imagine that to be my right. And profit from it. The stringent regulations for adoption are there for a reason. To insure the animal goes to the correct home, it won't be bounced to another, be mistreated and have a good quality of life. I wholeheartedly agree. But I wonder if some aren't taking it a bit too far...and turning off/away potential good homes. And now I DO wonder if any breeders are using wing clipping in their contracts.

I was helping a friend write an adoption contract for a dog she is fostering, and searched for some parrot contracts to use as a boiler plate. Interestingly, I came across several contracts that required the adopted bird to remain wing clipped at all times. Without opening the heated debate of wing clipping (which I am sure will be unavoidable), what do you think about this? To me, I think the decision to clip or not depends on the individual bird, the home situation and the overall quality of life for the animal. All my birds are fully flighted, which does present a lot of challenges in the home that not everyone is able to meet (no critique intended, I'm totally unqualified to have an Indian Hornbill in my house - and that's the way some people feel with an active home and an unclipped parrot). Do you think the decision of clipping or not should belong to the rescue group, or even in a breeder's contract?

Make sure everyone in the house is on the same page as far as training/dealing with the bird goes. You need consistency and stability right now. I hate to say it...but let go of that goal for now. I've had my TAG going on two years. He still growls at strangers, doesn't step up on my hand (will on a rope perch) and I've never touched him....ever. That may sound perfectly awful and unacceptable to some parrot owners - but I'm working on Burt's schedule. He's got almost 30 years of behavioral baggage under all those feathers. There's no way I could undo that in just 2 years. Plus, you have LOTS of years ahead of you with your bird. Just keep doing what you're doing and one day you'll realize what a strong bond you have. It takes a lot of time and patience, but the ends results are so worth it!!!

I joined this forum because I was tired of wearing out friends and family with bird information and stories. Most of them listened for about 1 minute before their eyes starting glazing over with boredom. I have many friends in San Diego (145 miles away), but few in my immediate area. I work a lot, so there's not much time for in-person social networking after a long work day. On weekends I see other birders, but not many of them are parrot people. Not only is there the sharing of information, but there's an immediate bonding..."Ohhhh, you're a parrot person too!!"

Timbersmom, I don't know where you are in IL, but here's a list of Certified Avian Vets in IL. Maybe someone can reccomend one? Karen Shaw Becker, DVM, NMD Clinic Name: Natural Pet Animal Hospital Address: 711 Almer Parkway City/State: Bourbonnais, IL 60914 Map: Google Map P: 815 929-9393 F: 815 929 0059 Email: Susan Cechner, DVM Clinic Name: Elburn Animal Hospital PC Address: 403 E North St City/State: Elburn, IL 60134 Map: Google Map P: 630-365-9599 F: Email: Elise Stern Ciribassi, DVM Clinic Name: Carol Stream Anim Hosp Address: 140 W Elk Tr City/State: Carol Stream, IL 60188 Map: Google Map P: 630-462-7888 F: 630-462-7068 Email: escdvm@msn.com Byron J.S. de la Navarre, Veterinarian Clinic Name: Animal House of Chicago, Complete Veterinary Care Address: 2752 West Lawrence Avenue City/State: Chicago, IL 60625 Map: Google Map P: 773-878-8002 F: 773-878-0546 Email: exotxdr@aol.com Kristi Delaski, DVM Clinic Name: Lincoln Park Zoo Address: 2001 N. Clark Street City/State: Chicago, IL 60614 Map: Google Map P: F: Email: 312 742-7222 Ronda DeVold, DVM Clinic Name: River Heights Veterinary Clinic Address: 5580 Route 34 West City/State: Oswego, IL 60543 Map: Google Map P: 630-554-3400 F: 630-554-9432 Email: devo0028@tc.umn.edu Ken Eisenberg, DVM Clinic Name: All Creatures Great and Small Veterinary Practice Clinic Address: 4945 Forest avenue City/State: Downers Grove, il 60515 Map: Google Map P: 630-852-0910 F: 630-852-3194 Email: acgasvp@ameritech.net Timothy S England, DVM Clinic Name: Animal Medical Center of Chicago Address: 1618 West Diversey City/State: Chicago, IL 60614 Map: Google Map P: 7735253353 F: Email: doctors@animalmedicalcenterofchicago.com Vivian Grant, Clinic Name: Lockport Animal Hospital Address: 1139 E. Ninth St. City/State: Lockport, IL 60441 Map: Google Map P: 815-838-7878 F: Email: drgrant@drviviangrant.com Timothy Harris, Dr. Clinic Name: Animal Care and Medical Center Address: 438 Peterson Rd. City/State: Libertyville, IL 60048 Map: Google Map P: 847-362-5954 F: 847-362-7472 Email: acmchosp@aol.com Robert M. Herath, DVM Clinic Name: Andalusia Road Veterinary Centre Address: 651 West Tenth Ave City/State: Milan, IL 61264 Map: Google Map P: 309-787-7474 F: Email: arvcvets@aol.com Susan Horton, DVM Clinic Name: Chicago Exotics Animal Hospital Address: W Dempster City/State: Skokie, IL 60076 Map: Google Map P: 847-329-8709 F: 847-329-8705 Email: chicagoexoticsah@earthlink.net Jennifer Langan, DVM Clinic Name: University of Illinois - Brookfield Zoo Address: 3300 Golf Road City/State: Brookfield, IL 60513 Map: Google Map P: 708-688-8504 F: 708-485-0269 Email: jennifer.langan@czs.org Cory Loxtercamp, DVM Clinic Name: VCA Worth Animal Hospital Address: 7727 W. 111th St. City/State: Palos Hills, IL 60465 Map: Google Map P: (708) 974-3070 F: Email: loxtcpcd@umn.edu Graham Merkin, DVM Clinic Name: Downers Grove Animal Hospital & Bird Clinic, P.C. Address: 635 Ogden Ave. City/State: Downers Grove, IL 60515 Map: Google Map P: 630-968-2812 F: 630-968-7402 Email: gmerkin@attbi.com Lisa Mikol-Doering, Veterinarian Clinic Name: Westgate Veterinary Center Address: 770 W. Bartlett Rd City/State: Bartlett, IL 60103 Map: Google Map P: 630-289-2288 F: 630-289-2208 Email: lmdvet@gmail.com Robert D. Ness, DVM Clinic Name: Ness Exotic Wellness Center Address: 1007 Maple Avenue City/State: Lisle, IL 60532 Map: Google Map P: 630-737-1281 F: 630-737-1332 Email: RDNess@aol.com Richard Nye, DVM Clinic Name: Nye Veterinary Services, PC Address: 40W257 Seavey Rd City/State: Batavia, IL 60510 Map: Google Map P: F: Email: Katy Parr, DVM Clinic Name: Glenwood Village Pet Hospital Address: 555 E Glenwood-Lansing Rd City/State: Glenwood, IL 60425 Map: Google Map P: 708-758-2400 F: 708-758-2959 Email: kparr@vetmail.lsu.edu Melinda Truckenbrod, Clinic Name: Address: City/State: La Salle, IL Map: Google Map P: F: Email: Kristin Vyhnal, DVM Clinic Name: Animal Ark Veterinary Clinic Address: 3235 N. Kedzie Ave City/State: Chicago, IL 60618 Map: Google Map P: 773 442-6500 F: 773-442-6507 Email: Sharon Wehling, DVM Clinic Name: Downers Grove Animal Hospital Address: 635 Ogden Ave. City/State: Downers Grove, IL 60440 Map: Google Map P: 630-968-2812 F: 630-968-7402 Email: Julie Whittington, Clinical Assistant Professor Clinic Name: University of Illinois Address: 1008 W. Hazelwood Dr. City/State: Urbana, IL 61802 Map: Google Map P: 217-333-5300 F: 217-244-1475 Email: jkwhitti@illinois.edu Randolph Wilson, DVM Clinic Name: IDEXX Reference Laboratories Address: 655 Grand Ave, Ste 390 City/State: Elmhurst, IL 01740 Map: Google Map P: 630 516-7984 F: 630 516-0520 Email: randy-wilson@idexx.com

Amen. I'm right there with you.

I don't want to throw another book at you...but, if you aren't getting what you need out of the current ones, I think Ann Castro's books provide a solid base for training. If you have a book reader, they are inexpensive too. http://www.amazon.com/bird-school-Clicker-training-parrots/dp/3939770035/ref=la_B004T066TQ_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1349292315&sr=1-2 Diet Coke floats rule!!! I am a bona fide DC addict. I have three addictions: birds, theater and Diet Coke. Life is good!

LOL! I haven't tried it! I did taste Harrison's High Potency. Very bland. Surprised the birds actually like it!

2 hours? That's about 15 miles in Los Angeles!!! Just teasing...I'm jealous!!!!

No bloodwork? Really? It's always been part of the yearly exam for all my birds (softbill and hookbill). Good to get a reading on calcium levels, WBC, etc.

I've never tried it - but my birds had the same reaction to TOPS. It's too bad. It seems like a really good pellet to me (although it does smell like rabbit food). However, TOPS has a good clean seed mix and Tesoro Treats.

Harrison's High Potency Coarse.

Sondheim's and Burt's yearly bloodwork came back perfect. Burt is an older Grey, so it's a relief to know that everything looks good. Celebration Dance!!! :cool: And just a little plug for the yearly exam for the Newbies: http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww10eii.htm

This made me laugh out loud. It's the perfect example of "never give up"!!! You just made my day, Nancy.

Good info, JayD. I'm always surprised to learn birds are on seed only diets. There is a blue and gold on my block that is fed sunflower in the shell. THAT'S IT. He also has no perches in his cage because he chews right through them. In fact, I don't think he ever leaves the cage. Oddly enough, he's fully feathered and seems pretty content. I try to stop by, bring toys, wood, veggie mash and bags of nuts. I don't know if the owners are starting to do the research...but I will continue to make the effort! Even though I feed the pellets, there are not necessary if the bird is getting a healthy, well rounded diet. I would stay away from any pellet with Menadione, Selenium and/or Ethoxyquin and artificial colors (which, unfortunately, is most). But, the birds find them enriching - they like to grind them to sawdust...and I'm not really sure I've actually seen them eat one. When I get bored of paying the crazy price of the Harrison's, and get perfect blood panels...I'll probably stop. For those feeding pellets: There's TONS of research on the web about bird pellets and harmful ingredients. I won't restate everything here. But the good options for a "healthy" pellet are Harrison's, Roudybush, TOPS and an organic brand sold by Eclectus Parrot: http://www.eclectusparrot.com/pelt2.shtml

I have to make and freeze about a week's worth of food. I'd rather not, but I have so limited time in the morning...and have to chop fresh fruit for the toucans (no getting around that one - refrigerating or freezing fresh, soft fruit is impossible) every day. Plus the pigeons, the dogs, etc. It's a little sacrifice I have to make. I can't imagine freezing food for months at a time! I know a lot of mashes are now including pasta, in part to absorb the moisture of the mix. I'm not opposed as a hard rule, I have included some whole wheat, organic Orzo - but there are much better choices if you are doing a weekly batch, not freezing, etc. I feed 3-4 tablespoons of mash in the AM with 10 Harrison's High Potency coarse pellets (a lot of that weight gets ground down, or dunked in water). In the PM, I feed 3-4 tablespoons of mash with about a teaspoon of seed and/or sprouts, no pellets. Since Burt was on an all sunflower diet, I include some sunflower in my weeklly mash - about 1/8 cup. In searching around for sunflower, he gets a lot of veggies, grains and beans. The other sunflower he gets is for training.

Now if you could only teach Cricket how to use that broom/mop! Thank you again, Ray. I so enjoy these posts about Zons. As a whole, I've always been a little gun shy with them (I worked with one that used to chase me around his enclosure), but have a deep appreciation. I'm thinking about buying myself a present: http://www.amazon.com/Encyclopedia-Amazon-Parrots-Klaus-Bosch/dp/0866227970/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1349207132&sr=8-4&keywords=Amazon+Parrots

Every bird is different, so try it out. Some parrots only like cooked carrots, some only raw. Sondheim loves chicken and Burt can't stand it. Different strokes! I feed all my veggies raw in a mash, with the exception of sweet potato (lightly steamed or boiled). Oddly enough, my greys dislike any kind of spice, so I leave it out. Try different ways...and then mix it up with variety, texture, etc. There are some incredible posts going around the board on different mashs. They may seem a little overwhelming at first, but soon becomes second nature.

I'm so sorry for the loss of your sweet baby. Are the birds kept outdoors? If so, you may want to do a little mosquito damage - bug zapper, etc.