JeffNOK

Jayd and Kins. I thank you both for your opinions on this matter. There are different views here in the forum about trimming/clipping, although I think a majority are not in favor of it. There are good arguments on both sides. I have heard that trimming can make parrots more reliant on us and in the short term that might help her allow more touch from me. It is also a safety issue with regards to flying away or injuring themselves in the household. However, in my heart I just can't shake the feeling that birds are meant to fly. Gracie just loves to fly. It's a joy for her and a joy for me to watch. I also want to add that Gracie never flies away from me. When she doesn't want to interact, she will just turn her head or maybe walk away a bit. If it is an issue like putting her back in her cage when I have to leave, she may step away for a moment, but if I persist she will step up rather than trying to fly off. I promise I will keep an open mind, but I am working on a few strategies with Gracie that I would like to try first. Last week I began to introduce the word "touch" to her. I would touch my hand with a finger and say "touch". Then I would touch her beak with my nose and say "touch". I would also touch other things and use the word. When I observe her touching things, I say "touch". When my parents' dog visited the other day, every time I petted him I looked at Gracie and said "touch". Well, today I stood with my face about 4 inches from Gracie and I said "touch" and she reached out her beak and touched my nose. Now that is a little thing, but hopefully I can extend that to finger touches to head, beak, feet etc. I'm not in a rush.

Congratulations Kim. I'm a new parront myself (I've only had my baby for 4 months). Enjoy the excitement of this journey. Good luck with names. I would suggest some, but I find that names are very personal and whenever people suggested them to me they just didn't fit. The name will come to you soon enough--as well as many adventures.

I got a grey as my first bird. I, like you, also read plenty of advice on forums trying to discourage first time parrot owners from getting a grey and to try a budgie or cockatiel first. I think this happens not because greys are so terribly difficult, but because many people might get a grey for the wrong reasons and aren't prepared to open their lives fully to the bird. Many greys get locked away in cages when the novelty wears off. I just want to say that I wouldn't trade my Gracie (8 month old CAG) for the world. In some ways it has been much easier than I expected. In other ways it has been a challenge--but in a good way!!! I do have to be sensitive to her and try to understand her and modify my behavior accordingly. Greys are individuals like people are individuals and we have to take the time to really observe them and learn who they are. With a dog (God bless them) it's usually smooth sailing, love and cuddles once they are house broken and get over the chewing phase. My Grey seems like a little person in a grey suit who surprises me every day. I have to analyze my actions more than other pets I have had, but it really hasn't been an issue. I wish you and your girlfriend luck with the rose breasted cockatoo (i think they are wonderful birds but they are quite different from greys). The pic of the baby grey is precious. Follow your heart and know that this forum is full of people who know tons. It has been a godsend for a newbie like me.

Welcome. I have learned a lot here and I'm sure that you time in the forum will be a blessing when you get your grey.

Jayd, I certainly didn't think you meant anything bad. You have been nothing but helpful. Sadly my one year of law school prior to dropping out and becoming a teacher has led me to present too much information sometimes. I wasn't trying to overstate a point. I can understand why you would have thought that she might be older. Sadly misleading information from breeders is not uncommon, so I didn't mind the question at all. I'm glad I was there all along the way and that her eyes are just beginning to turn a bit silver/grey because otherwise I might have doubts myself. But based on all the evidence I do feel confident in her age. Again, sorry if I seemed snippy and I really appreciate all your advice.

I understand your question about the eyes and age, but I'm quite certain she was 8 months old March 23rd. I have a certificate with her hatch date and her band number. My breeder is a very reputable vet in my town and is well known to all the parrot people here. The breeder does have a few birds that she boards as rescues and she is up front about their ages and history. I was in contact with the breeder when Gracie was hatched and DNA'd female a few weeks later. I met Gracie at nine weeks when she left her parents and hadn't fledged yet. . I was at the breeder the day of her first flight. . She really is still a baby even though she has some unique characteristics.

Jayd, her wings are not clipped. She can fly freely whenever she wants. She is so cute when I am preparing her vegetables. She gets really excited and she buzzes the kitchen door two or three times in anticipation of her green beans. corn, boccoli, and carrots. Her eyes are still dark. She is beginning to get a light silver ring around her pupils that can be seen in bright light. From a distance her eyes look black. As far as playing with her--I have stopped using her toys in common games. She is super possessive of HER toys. She actually lunges in my direction when I touch her toys. She doesn't try to bite me--its a bluff--but she gets all ruffled up and strikes at the toy just an inch or so from my fingers. She could nail me if she wanted to, but she doesn't. I'm not sure if it's a game to her or if she is warning me off. She looks like she means business, so I have just stopped touching her toys unless I am rotating old toys out and new ones in. Whenever I say "Gracie, where's your toy?" she immediately goes to one of her toys, ruffles up, and grabs at it with a dramatic bravado as if to say--"Yes it is MY toy and don't you forget it!" Tonight I took a few pillows and reclined next to her cage for a few hours. She seemed to like my close proximity. We whistled and chirped and serenaded each other. I had a few pine nuts--a new treat--and she occassionally climbed down on her cage to allow me to feed them to her. I touched her beak as I gave the nuts. She didn't seem to mind. For some reason, she doesn't mind me touching her beak. She steps up willingly, but I'm not sure she'd be cool with me touching her feet. The head is still off limits except occassionally with my nose. I must look so silly petting my bird with my nose, but that is the part of my body she seems to feel the least threatened by. She has never nipped at my nose, although sometimes she tries to lick it--ugh strange sensation! I had my parents' dog visit yesterday. He is a little Toy Fox Terrier (10 lbs max). I am trying to acclimate her to family and pets because I plan to have her visit my parents with me, and if I have to go out of town she would be staying with them. She was curious about him, but not bothered. He barked at her twice (and was immediately put under control). After an hour Gracie and the dog were only mildly curious about each other. I think they will be fine under supervision. I must say it was really nice when the dog hopped up on the couch and gave me a snuggle. Dogs are such love lumps--Gracie is a harder nut to crack.

As far as the other two birds, I know they came from different parents, and one was pulled at 4 weeks because it had a foot injury. It's all a learning process. I'm just going to make a huge effort more quality time with Gracie and gradually offer her more touch and affection and see how it goes.

I feel so confused and conflicted. I'm a complete newbie with birds altogether let alone greys. I read so much and get such different information. I really don't know what is best. One school of thought suggests allowing the grey to lead the way--"don't push--don't make them do anything they don't want to do unless it's an issue of safety". Another school of thought suggests taking a parent role and to guide and train even if they resist and seem unhappy or uncomfortable initially. I'm willing to do anything if it is right for her. It's just that I don't know what that is. When I first got Gracie I took her places in her Pak-o-bird. She didn't like that. She started to resist me and seemed to distrust me when I pushed the issue. I was told by people on the forum that I was being too dominating and I should step back and let her communicate when she was comfortable. So, I have adopted the strategy of respecting her wishes and letting her let me know what she wants and needs. Our relationship is very good and she is very happy. If you saw her you would see a very contented bird. I personally would like more affection. As things stand now, she does not want to be touched. She makes that very clear. I make attempts, and she lets me know that she doesn't want it. She loves for me to sit with her next to her cage and talk and sing and whistle to her, but when I attempt to touch her she walks away. Sometimes I will have her step up and I will walk her to places in my condo where she is not as familiar. Sometimes she stays on me for a minute or two and sometimes she flies back to her cage immediately. She still really enjoys hand feeding formula, and once a day I hand feed her. Tonight I decided to have her step up and receive the formula while standing on my hand. Initially she took the formula from my hand, but she kept looking back to her cage. She didn't like sitting on my hand. She wanted to take the formula from the top of her cage. She eventually flew back to her cage. After that I offered her my hand--she walked away. She didn't like it. So far I haven't taken her to my bedroom--the only room aside from the bathroom where she hasn't been. If I take her there, what should I do? Kins mentioned training--but training for what exactly? Training to let me touch her? If I do that, she will just run away from me or fly off. Do I then chase her and make her submit to my touch? I feel somehow wrong in forcing affection. I just know that if I try to do that she will feel scared and upset. Now, if that is only temporary and it leads to a good result then I am willing to take her out of her comfort zone. But if it only sets us back--causes her to lose trust and makes her unhappy--then I don't want to do it. As far as socializing her--I think I am doing a good job. I have visitors over all the time. I even have my students over from time to time and conduct class in my condo. She likes it. She chirps and whistles and plays and even steps up on some of the students. She is not a phobic fearful or shy grey. She just doesn't like to be touched. I don't want to give the impression that I am some meek mild pushover that is afraid to assert himself. I am not. I have trained dogs and have been the unquestioned pack leader. It works with dogs, and I have no qualms about it. But with greys I get such mixed messages about the approach that I feel hamstrung because I get advice that goes in opposite directions. I want to thank you all for your advice. As someone who really knows nothing, I want to hear all opinions. Really--you are speaking from your hearts and personal experience, and I value that very much. I just don't know what to do, whose advice to take, or what is best for Gracie-- which is my ultimate concern. I love her with all my heart.

It seems like most people here with a similar issue are those with rescues rather than hand fed babies. I must say that Gracie is not typical. She has been unusually independent for a young hand fed grey. When I visited Gracie (nearly every day) for two months at the breeders before bringing her home, there were two other grey babies there the same age. Both of them flew to people and happily sat there for pets and cuddles. Gracie did not. She would step up to be let out of her cage, but that was it. I know that most baby greys will allow pets and scritches, but Gracie is just different somehow. I don't know if I'm being overly cautious or not. I'm not afraid of her or a bite. I do feed her treats by hand, and she will step up happily, but no touching anywhere except her beak (by nose or lips and occassionally finger). If I try to touch her head or neck, she immediately walks away. I don't want to give the impression that she is unfriendly. She loves me. She watches every move I make and gets my attention in very outgoing comical ways. Whenever I'm home I spend every minute with her in the same room, and she is out of her cage. I only leave the room for minutes at a time to run to the bathroom or get changed or something. She did stay with her parents for nine weeks prior to being hand fed rather than the typical three or four weeks. I have read that this makes them bond differently with people. They tend to be quite stable in personality, but have a greater sense of themselves as birds and not humans--so they don't see us as "mates" but as friends as they mature. I am going to try to touch her more, but if she doesn't want it--I'm not going to be too persistent. I really just want her to be happy.

I've had Gracie (8 month old hand fed CAG) now for just under four months. I must say she is an absolute joy and quite easy to co-habitate with. I know that we have bonded because she trusts me and seems very happy to see me and interact with me--though at a comfortable distance. When I leave the room she calls to me and when I leave the house she really cries. We spend a lot of time "chatting" with each other, but she still won't allow scritches or pets or touches beyond "nose-to beak"--hands are off limits except for step ups in and out of the cage or moving to a perch or playstand--even then she prefers my wrist (she is fully flighted, but still allows me to transport her). She spends most of her time playing independently in and around her cage. She won't hang out with me on the couch or sit on my hand or shoulder for any length of time. She doesn't bite or seem to fear me in any way. So far I've been very laid back with her. I don't push her, and the minute she seems uncomfortable with anything I step back. The thing is, I want to bond more with her, but I don't want to force myself on her. Should I just keep doing as I'm doing, or are there ways I can slowly make her more open to touch and closer interaction. I'm not discouraged, and if this is just her personality, I'm ok with that, but I can't help but think we can get closer and she and I would both be happier for it. Any thoughts?

I loved your video. Those babbles, chirps and squawks are the soundtrack of my life as well. I loved hearing the little "wolf whistles"--Gracie has adopted the wolf whistle as her contact call. Whenever I leave the room--she begins that "whOO//-WHoo\\" whistle which would rival any construction worker admiring a passing beauty. They are such little cuties. What warms my heart is that all those sounds are the sign of a happy, healthy, secure parrot.

Where in Missouri are you? I live in Tulsa Oklahoma and I got my baby from a local breeder who is also a veterinarian. She regularly has babies available--both Congos and Timnehs. She leaves her babies with their parents for eights weeks before beginning hand feeding, and this has led to very stable personalities. I couldn't be happier with my little girl (Gracie). If you are in Western or Southern Missouri I would consider contacting her. Her name is Dr Carol Best. She can be contacted at 918-663-7595. I saw her recently at an avian fair, and she had several greys who were close to being ready for new homes. She generally abundance feeds until they are between 16-20 weeks. She sells Congos for $950 and Timnehs for $750. Good Luck with whatever you decide. It's an adventure well worth pursuing.

Doug, I agree about the cadence of speech. That is what I am hearing. It is like a perfect imitation of the rhythm of English and the tone, but not words yet (although I could swear I hear some from time to time). As far as it being dry--I'm not sure. I live in eastern Oklahoma and our springs are pretty humid. I may try to mix some aloe vera in her baths and see if that helps. She is definately starting to molt--but i can't say if the scratching is related to that except it seems she is trying to get at some of those loose downy feathers that are ready to come out. I have read the first molt usually begins at 8 months and continues over the next year. So far it's mainly just her small fluffy white feathers and few tiny grey/white ones.

Gracie turned eight months old this week, and recently I have noticed a few changes in her. Firstly, she is beginning to molt. I'm seeing a lot of her feathers sort of sticking up and many more of her downy feathers falling out. She seems to be preening and scratching more than before and I notice she rubs her head and neck against some of her toys. Sadly, she still won't let me give her scritches and scratches. The other thing I've witnessed is a change in her vocalizations. Up until last week, Gracie had learned only to imitate different whistles and kissing noises that she uses when chattering or for contact calling. Last week she began to utter sounds quite dissimilar to these. She seems to go into her throat and makes these mumbles that sound like human speech. The way I can best describe it is sort of like that electronic sound Steven Hawking makes when he speaks through his computer. It has the cadence and tone of language. Sometimes I think I can hear certain words or phrases (good girl, good morning, Daddy), but it isn't clear enough to say for sure. It is so strange. It's like I'm hearing English, but I can't quite understand what she is saying--like there is a bad connection on skype or something. These are a new development. I've never heard sounds like these come out of her before, and she is doing it more frequently. When I hear something familiar like "good girl" I repeat it to her--but then she shuts up or goes back to wolf whisling or blowing kisses. Do you think this is the beginning of her using words? For those of you that have talking greys, does what I am describing sound familiar? If so, how long does this stage last before words start coming? I really wasn't expecting any speech for a few more months, so it has taken me by surprise. Thanks for your comments.

I encourage you to read the threads about biting. One is a sticky. I think it will put your mind at ease. Yes greys bite sometimes, but it is really no big deal usually and can almost always be avoided. I'm a new grey parront myself and I did get nipped a few times at the beginning, but as trust was built and I learned her body language--it doesn't happen anymore. When your grey knows you will respect its wishes, it usually learns it doesn't need to nip to get the point across.

Time flies doesn't it! Happy hatch day Sterling. You strike quite a pose in your harness. I love the gorgeous pines in the background. Ahhh Washington state. Close to heaven for me. Gracie will have to be content with the subtler charms of Oklahoma. Come to think of it--tornado season is coming--not exactly subtle!

Well last week I took Gracie up to work with me after hours to get her used to my classroom without any distractions. Within ten minutes there was a loud rap on my door. I opened the door to discover two burly security guards who demanded, "Is there a BIRD in there!"(It was like I was smuggling heroin or something). I let the guards in and introduced them to Gracie who gave them a cordial greeting chirp. Without a beat one of the guards said "No animals in the building!". Now although I had permission from my boss to have Gracie at school, I hadn't thought to get permission from the office building where our school is housed. Evidently it is part of the lease agreement that animals are "verboten". So, alas Gracie will not be joining me at work. I'm bummed. I hate to leave Gracie at home while I work. I don't want her to be bored and alone. I am gone from 9-3 daily. I know that's not as bad as some schedules, but I still feel bad about it. I do come home at lunch for an hour sometimes, but it is rushed. I'm hoping to arrange my teaching schedule next session so I can take my off hour after lunch and have two hours for Gracie between classes. Do you think Gracie will be OK? When I'm home from 3 until bedtime Gracie is out and I am with her. We also have two hours together in the morning before I go to work.

Welcome! We look forward to hearing more about you and Toby!

Please know that all of our hearts and prayers are with you. I'm sad beyond words.

Glad you are here Jason. I joined this forum as a complete newbie with regards to birds of any description. Like you, I was interested in getting a grey and needed to do some research to be sure it would be a good fit. I have found it an invaluable resource. I've had my Congo baby about two and a half months and the grey forums have been here for me every step of the way from early research, to selecting a baby, to preparing my home, and then the fun part--life with a grey! You have certainly come to the right place.

Loved the post. I have said goodbye to sleeping in on weekends, but sometimes Gracie will let me nap on the couch next to her cage.

Im just wondering if Sully has gotten some of his feathers back? still plucking?

When I first got Gracie she also used to bite sometimes. Over the last 2 and a half months the biting has virtually stopped. I agree with what you said--most of it is about building trust and they realize there is no reason to bite. Gracie will sometimes do a "bluff bite" if she wants to be left alone, but she doesn't apply any pressure. It's just her way of communicating and I respect her wishes. Best wishes and keep us posted on your little fid.

2 to 3 times a day. I just use tap water.