JeffNOK

I am so glad things are progressing well. From your description, both greys seem pretty well-adjusted with human interaction. I guess my only question has to do with their history and your expectations. It seems they are a bonded pair who have bred and had chicks. I have no experience with this at all. Do you hope to keep them as companion greys or breeders? You mentioned that if the female lays eggs, you will remove them. Do you plan to breed them in the future? Is that something you feel ready to do? I assume they share a cage. It has always been my understanding that breeder/pair bonded greys do not really seek human relationships too deeply--though there may be exceptions. I look forward to reading more posts by more experienced members to address this issue. Your situation is rather atypical so I just look forward to hearing and learning more about what comes next for you. By the way--saying they are "OLDDDDDDDD" is not quite true. The male is sexually mature, but only by a few years. The female is older, but by no means "OLD". They can live 50-60 years.

Thanks for the "heads up" on the program, Dan. I will certainly watch. I am bracing myself for the emotion it will likely elicit, but I want to stay informed and look forward to discussing it with forum members afterwards.

I'm happy for you Shane. Can't wait to hear how things progress.

Really nice video. I love the sound of her voice.

Hey man! This forum was a life saver for me. I joined a year before I got my grey and read and read and read. It was just a blessing. Then when I got my grey, people were available to answer questions and give advice. It really has been invaluable and I hope you gain as much as I have.

Bathing was one of my big worries too. My Gracie isn't a rehome, but still I worried she would hate the water. She actually likes it! I'm glad your Gracie is in the same boat. They do feel better when clean. After a bath my Gracie chats and whistles and sings to beat the band. It's a happy sound

No ethical vet would euthanize a healthy bird at the request of an owner for mere convenience. As far as laws, I don't know. There are certainly animal cruelty laws, but saying that, animals are euthanized by the thousands daily in shelters because there is no way to rehome or care for them. It's a good question, but I don't know the answer. I don't believe that parrots are viewed differently than dogs or cats as far as laws are concerned.

Gracie has lots of toys with plastic chains. The openings aren't large, but the plastic width is pretty thick. So far no problems.

I'm curious what the challenges of studying greys in the wild would be. Their physical similarity to each other, the fact that they "nest" in tree holes, that they fly and travel over long distances, the difficulty in determining gender, etc.. I have heard that there is increased interest in doing such research, but I'm not sure what is actually being done. The study of companion greys is also worth exploring further as well and perhaps easier to do. I recently mentioned the study of Cosmo, from "Conversations with Cosmo." This study dealt with grey social interaction in the following situations: grey alone, owner out of room, owner in same room, and owner interacting with others in the presence of the grey. I was thinking about setting up a webcam to record similar situations with Gracie because I see similar patterns with Gracie that Cosmo exhibited. It's always good to get corroborating evidence. I would think we on the forum could be valuable sources of information to add to the knowledge about greys in captivity. Obviously to have validity, we would have to follow certain guidelines, but it's worth thinking about. Just my thoughts.

I remember watching documentaries of Ms Goodall when I was a child. It was amazing. So much was learned. I have to admit wanting to go study chimps myself after watching. I appreciated her objectivity. She didn't romanticize them like Diane Fosse seemed to do with Gorillas. Goodall was about the science. She didn't have a personal need to bond with the chimps to fill an emotional void as Fosse seemed to.

I'm just so, so, so sorry. Words fail. You and your wife are in my prayers.

I like Steve's thinking about Misty being a "person". Personhood seems to fit--without anthropomorphizing. As far as communication, Gracie uses English to communicate many things, but her most effective way to tell me to "come here" is an annoying cough. Last winter I had a cold with this very piercing cough. She picked it up perfectly. When I first leave the room to do something she will begin with English, "Gracie want Daddy" or "Daddy's here." But if I don't come back quickly enough, she starts to "cough". It's gets louder and more obnoxious until I come back. That cough speaks volumes. It's her version of "Daddy, get your A$$ back in here, NOW!". She also says goodbye sometimes by making the sound of my door squeaking as it closes. It isn't random. She never makes that sound except when I am leaving. I think that communicates just as well or better than when she actually says "Bye Bye."

I hope my comment that I felt sorry for Alex didn't give the impression that I thought he was abused or that Dr. Pepperberg was bad. I understand the unique circumstances that he found himself in and would like to believe he was loved by those who worked with him.

You know, with all the acclaim concerning Alex and Pepperberg, I thought I was the only one who walked away feeling sad more than inspired. I much prefer the study done with Cosmo (Betty Jean Craig's Grey) that studied the social use of language in greys with a loved companion bird. Cosmo was simply studied as she lived life--without rigorous testing or demands to respond in certain ways. As much was learned about greys in that study as in the one with Alex. http://www.world-science.net/exclusives/110601_parrot.htm

I agree with your sentiments. Alex was not a companion, but a research project. Alex and Dr Pepperberg have done great good in providing evidence of avian intelligence, but Alex's life was not normal for a companion grey. To be honest, I feel sorry for Alex when I see videos of him. He seems to always be asked to perform the same tasks again and again and generally pleads to "go back". My grey is a talker and very cognitive in her use of language, but that isn't why I love her. If she never spoke a word again, that would be fine. The media attention brought about by the Alex studies has been a mixed blessing. While there is new respect for greys, there are also those who want their egos built up by having a talking bird that can be shown off. If the bird doesn't "perform" as expected, they may end up being ignored or rehomed. African greys should be cherished for who they are, not what they can do.

Gracie has chewed the frame of a mirror so mercilessly that today I had to actually remove the mirror from the frame for fear it might fall out and hurt her. Of course now that it looks different Gracie wants nothing to do with it.

I can't even imagine life with a clipped grey. I love the fact that Gracie flies where and when she wants. I just can't envision a scenario where clipping or trimming would serve any purpose. I make sure her environment is safe,,,doors and windows closed--no ceiling fans--no open boiling pots or seat up in the bathroom. She loves to fly. I see the joy in it. Sometimes she does laps around my apartment over and over--landing in different spots--investigating different things. Several times a day, Gracie flies and flies and swoops and lands wherever she wants. She is confident--happy and in control of where she wants to be. If she doesn't feel comfortable with something she can fly away from it. What is the need to clip? I don't want to clip her so she becomes more docile or dependent on me. I can't see how that improves her life. Yes, if she were clipped, maybe she would have to depend more on me. But does that help her mental health? I have yet to read any convincing evidence that clipping serves any purpose at all unless the bird is actively attacking or harming family members. I just don't see any point at all.

Nancy makes a great point. In time you will be able to read Gracie's vocalizations and body language so well that you will begin to work in synch together better and better. It will be like a mostly harmonious ballroom dance. I don't have to tell you who will be leading most of the time.

Sadly, I gave up on the harness, but Gracie gets lots of time outside in her travel cage which is 24X20/1.5 bar spacing and an open view to the world. She loves going to the park. I hope the harness works for you, but there are other good options if it doesn't. The cage also protects from hawks...which are numerous in Oklahoma where we live.

Loved the pics. So glad to see the closeness and trust there. My CAG has never cuddled--even as a baby, so I really enjoy seeing others enjoy that kind of interaction. I'm tempted to show Gracie your pictures and say "See! Escher likes to snuggle. How about giving it a try?"

You are very welcome here and certainly not the first person to get a new grey who still has lots of questions. Not by a long shot. The advice given above is right on the mark, so I won't add to it. Relax, take a few breaths, and envision yourself some time down the road with a close warm bond with your grey. Can't wait to hear how things progress.

Hi Jurey. Welcome! You are in the right place. I have learned so much here. Like Dan said, just go slow and follow the bird's lead. If he doesn't want to step up right away, I would suggest just saying, "Ok. Maybe later" and walk away for a while. There is no rush. Now you are on "grey time", which takes some getting used to. Keep us posted on how things are going.

Quite a beautiful flock indeed! I bet your home is always interesting....to say it least!

I'm very glad that you have posted here because we all understand the close bond and genuine love one can have with a parrot. I'm very sorry for the pain you are feeling and the void in your life. I don't believe you have any responsibility in what happened. Please don't assume that burden of guilt. You are in my prayers, and I hope you will continue to post and let us know how you are doing and perhaps share some happy memories of Sam. I have no doubt he knew how much you loved him.

You have been given some good advice. I wish you the best of luck and please keep us all informed with your progress.