JeffNOK

Last night I got a call from a friend of mine who found an abandoned Jack Russell Terrier cowering in her barn. Today we took it to a local vet for a check up. The dog is extremely sweet and laid back, but has some issues. She is totally blind in one eye and has a cataract in the other which allows her to possibly see shapes and shadows, but that is about it. When examining her teeth, the vet noticed that she has worn all her teeth down, but what remains are white and healthy. Her theory is that the dog was a puppy mill breeder left in a cage and she wore her teeth chewing on the metal bars and then abandoned by the side of a road somewhere. Despite her cataracts and worn teeth, the vet guesses she is only about 5 or 6 years old. She tested negative for heart worms, but had fleas and her skin is raw and red in many places. Anyway, I decided to adopt her on a trial basis. My Cag Gracie is my priority, and I don't want the addition of a rescue dog to stress her out. If it doesn't work out, I will look for another home for her or find a "no kill" shelter for her. Before making the decision, I introduced Gracie to Lucy (the name I have given the Jack Russell). Gracie seemed delighted and offered kisses. The dog showed no aggression or prey instinct. In fact she seemed oblivious to Gracie due to her blindness. Even when Gracie flew around or talked, Lucy showed no interest. Lucy is the most chill laid back dog I have met--yet so sweet and gentle. She has a gem of a personality. I hope I have made a good decision. I never do such things on impulse, but this dog truly needs a loving home and probably has had a sad life thus far. I just couldn't look the other way without giving it a try. I have attached a picture of Lucy sleeping on my couch after a bath and a flea killing treatment.

My thoughts are with you and Mar. I look forward to hearing good news soon.

Thanks again for your interest in this. Michael Mountain The Nonhuman Rights Project. Thank you Michael for your post. It is indeed very interesting what your organization is pursuing. Although we are a forum for African Grey companions, you will find that we often discuss the issue of animal rights generally. I appreciate the time you devoted to address some of the comments we made here. I must admit I was a little surprised to see your post, however. How did you run across this forum and this thread? Just curious. Jeff

I agree Inara. There is a danger in quantifying "personhood" that could potentially rob actual humans of basic rights if they fail to meet the standard. I like your idea of defining a class of "sentient animal". The only issue there is determining what the rights of sentient animals are. I have mixed feeling about the project on many levels, but I admire the spirit and intent of it nonetheless.

You make an excellent point. The choice of the four animal classes is somewhat limited and an argument could be made for so many more. It is my guess that the project chose "high profile" species for inclusion in order to get support. They probably chose African Greys because they wanted a bird included and since the Alex research is the most well-known in that category, they picked greys. I suppose the idea is to start with a small number of "plaintiffs" and then possibly expand once (if) recognition is given. I think if the full truth were known, the list of sentient animals would be enormous.

I have recently become aware of a project whereby basic "human" rights are being sought for certain animal species. The idea of the project is that up until now, non human animals are considered property and do not have rights similar to those given to humans. The group is hoping to have courts bestow "personhood" on some animal species. This project has chosen 4 animal classes as "plaintiffs" to be used to seek legal recognition of their special sentient nature. The four classes chosen are: apes, cetaceans (dolphins and whales), elephants, and African Grey Parrots. I have attached a link below. I'm curious how forum members feel about the project. http://www.nonhumanrights.org/ It seems to be a pretty organized and determined group trying to make history for animals.

Nice article. I don't have experience with Amazons, but they have always intrigued me. So different from greys it seems.

Nice video. It reminds me I need to buy some new foot toys for my CAG Gracie. Thanks!

In some ways Gracie sees my parents as part of her flock when we visit, and she gets stressed when people come and go and leave her line of sight. I live in a small condo, and when I'm home with Gracie we are always together. When I visit my parents, my mother and father come and go and she doesn't like it. She flies after them, tries to land on their heads, sometimes flies into their bedroom if the door isn't closed. She wants to keep everyone together and when that doesn't happen it stresses her. When we sit down to a meal, and seem to be ignoring her, she sometimes circles the table and flies low over everyone's head.

Great thread Katana. I've always been curious about POIs. Java seems like a fearless adventurer. I look forward to learning more.

Mating season?!? I don't even want to think about it. Gracie my CAG will be joining a convent if she even starts such a thing! I am curious==how do Greys and Amazons compare in this department? Do Greys have a specific mating season? Are amazons more affected by it? Just curious. Gracie is just two and a half, so I wonder what to expect.

This may be off the topic, but I wanted to address two of Gracie's vocalizations that I mentioned in my original post: "Ouchie" and "I'm sorry". You might think that Gracie learned "ouchie" from me as a reaction to a bite, but the story behind that is very different and very interesting. In my research on parrots and biting before I got Gracie, I read that it is best not to react to a bite because those emotional reactions can reinforce the biting behavior. I never say ouch or "ouchie" when bitten. The origin of that word relates to my parents' dog. Several months ago my parents' dog had surgery to remove some pre-cancerous vascular lesions. When Gracie and I went to visit, I showed her the dog's wounds and stitches and said "Barkleah has an ouchie". She saw the raw skin and noticed his pain moving around. Later when she bit me, she said "ouchie". Somehow she associated the word with pain, which she somehow perceived when looking at the dog's post-surgery wounds. And she knew she had inflicted pain on me, so she used the word associated with pain. This was after I used the word only a few times. With "I'm sorry", Gracie only heard that phrase when I did something that disturbed her. Maybe I bumped her cage or her perch or maybe I dropped something that made a loud noise that sent her flying. I never said I'm sorry in relation to anything she did to me. I never demanded an apology or used that phrase responding to her behavior. But Gracie must have understood that since I said "I'm sorry" when I did something that bothered her, she would do the same when she knew she had done something that bothered me. In both cases Gracie showed an amazing ability to empathize and understand the mind of another and apply it. So when Gracie says "Gracie Bite! Ouchie! I'm sorry." It is not some rote response. It was constructed based on observation of several very different complex situations. In both cases Gracie had to get into the mind of another sentient being and apply it with regard to her actions and how she expected the other would react. At some level Gracie must have the understanding that other beings have a state of mind similar to her own. Others feel pain--others get fearful or bothered. I would never have believed that was possible with any animal-even great apes or cetaceans unless I had witnessed it. Most people don't believe me when I share these stories. They would accuse me of anthropomorphic-delusions of the first order--but I will swear on a stack of Bibles that what I have shared is 100% true--so help me.

You know it is interesting that you say Gracie may be pissed that she is not at home. I know she likes my family, and I want to keep her socialized and open to new things, but when we get ready to go to my parents' house, Gracie resists going into her travel cage. I tell her where we are going and she steps up, but flies off over and over again before finally getting in her travel cage. Sometimes it take 15 attempts for her to go in. This last time I actually put the travel cage in the bathroom where she really couldn't fly off to get her in. Interestingly, when it is time to go home, she goes right in the cage without a fuss. She says, "Go to Gracie's house. Bye Bye!" and happily enters her cage--no muss no fuss no nips. You may be on to something, but I don't want her "homebound" and always surrounded by the familiar. I have also noticed that she is becoming more wary of new toys and objects. It takes her much longer than before to accept and be accustomed to novel things. I don't want her to get set in her ways. She is just two and a half. I want her to keep her adventurous spirit.

I am an OKIE from Oklahoma, but lived my first 10 years in Ohio just outside of Cleveland. Your 2 years of research will serve you well and this forum will provide a wealth of information as you continue your journey. I joined the forum a year before I got my grey and did years of research beforehand. Greys are fantastic. I assure you of that. They are also individuals who differ from each other as much as we humans differ from each other. My Grey is the apple of my eye, but she has her unique personality which at times can be hard to fully understand. You have come to the right place, and I know all of us here are happy to answer any questions you have and take the journey with you. I look forward to hearing more of what will come for you and your prospective grey. Welcome!

My CAG Gracie is a sweet gentle grey when we are at home. She isn't perfect by any means, but she never bites or acts too obstinate. When we go to my parents house, she changes somewhat. During the holiday season, Gracie and I spent a lot of time at my parents' house. She seems to love the attention from family members and the big house with high ceilings for flying. The thing is, that she is nippy and kind of grouchy when we are there. I don't interfere with Gracie's freedom much, but sometimes I have to remove her from forbidden places or have her step up to go to bed at night. Inevitably she will nip me. Sometimes those nips are hard pinches that break the skin. She steps up happily, but as I move her she bites me, sometimes more than once, and says with defiance, "Gracie bite! Ouchie!" Sometimes she adds, "I'm sorry."--but it is far from a sincere apology. With my mother she is a grouch after a while. At first she seems excited and happy, but after a few hours when my mom gets close, Gracie strikes at a toy or her perch and admonishes, "Ah-ah!" like she is saying "This is my space woman!". She even struck at my mom's glasses when she refreshed her water bowl. She seems to like my father a lot, but she gets grouchy with him too and nips (although not hard). In the past, she always let my father put her to bed, but now she steps up but flies off back to her play stand. I am now the only one who can return her to her cage (with a few bites as part of the package). With the dog, it has gotten odd. She has been dive bombing him and tries to land on his head. It isn't aggressive, but it seems Gracie wants to engage him more than I am comfortable with. The dog (a small toy breed) is bewildered and confused by this. We end up caging Gracie for a time out and sometimes put the dog in another room. The dog and bird relationship is well supervised and someone is always there to prevent anything from happening, but it is worrisome nonetheless. Now Gracie and I are back home, and she is back to her sweet self. No more nips, bites, or grouchy behavior. The docile princess has returned. Is she just overstimulated? Showing off? Anxious? Just a Brat at the grandparents? Your thoughts are appreciated.

Gracie sneezes and coughs but that is about it....so far. She does a fake snore I taught her which she uses after saying, "Daddy on couch. Daddy take nap...snore snore."

I'm wondering exactly how the two house bricks would be used....

My CAG Gracie is big on names. She uses names for everyone in her life--even my parents' dog. Her favorite name of all is...Gracie! "Gracie want veggies:, "Gracie go sleepies", "Gracie likes toys", "Gracie is a good bird." The one name she has never said is mine. She calls me Daddy, but never Jeff. Sometimes she just sings her name over and over, "Gracie Gracie Gracie Gracie!!". She seems to be quite impressed with herself. They are all so different. It sounds like you and Jake are having fun. That is what it's all about, and there is much more to come.

Happy Belated Hatchday Louie. Be the star that you are!

I got a baby grey because I was a newbie with birds and thought I was safer with a young one without baggage. I also believed I could mold her into what I thought I wanted. Well, I can't say I molded her in any way. I tried, believe me...but she was destined to be herself. My contribution was really just loving her, being patient, making her safe, and letting her be herself. I wouldn't change anything. I agree with the others....the difference between getting a baby or a two year old will probably make little difference in the end result and relationship forged. I look forward to hearing what you decide.

Can't wait to see your pictures. Glad the fruit is being appreciated.

Hi and a warm welcome to you. I always enjoy hearing the journey people have taken that brought a grey into their life. It sounds like things are going pretty well. I look forward to hearing more as time goes on.

The fact that the individual isn't asking for any money and is willing to have you pick them up in person makes it seem like it might be legitimate. The fact that the pic posted is clearly two babies (those black eyes) rather than the two year olds he is referring to makes it seem fishy. If I was trying to rehome a bird, I would not post a pic of some other bird. If you really want to pursue it, you might consider skyping with him with web cam to see the birds and talk at more length about things. We have several members here from Texas--maybe if they are in the same area they could go check him out.

I would suggest reading some of the threads here on biting. I don't know if your hubby might be misreading some body language or reinforcing a bite in some way. He may be reacting so strongly because of the experience with the Macaw. Good luck!

nice video--thnx for posting.