Tweedle

I bawled my eyes out when I read this. I'm just so pleased for you.

That's got my eyes misted up again.

I bought the DVD for my bf but we haven't had the chance to watch it yet. Looking forward to it, but glad I read the book first.

Can I ask, do you find your bird more inclined to get frisky at certain times of day? We seem to be progressing with headscratches and wing touches in the morning, without any head bobbing creeping in. But the last couple of evenings, I only need to TALK to her to get her doing her little dance :eek: I can't remember who posted it where, but I read the other day about someone playing the body parts game with their bird - I think that's great! I've started doing it with Pippa - Beaky! Head, Neck, Wiiiiiings!, Toes. I've been suprised how well she's taking it, but I am being soooooo careful. It's a delicate balancing act - push too much when she's not in the mood and she will run away, touch too much when she is IN THE MOOD (nudge nudge) and I'll get more than I bargained for!

The Wild Parrots of Telegraph Hill. Laughed out loud, and cried my heart out.

I'm sure your vets in Spain would have access to a lab that could run the test for you. Or else, when I worked in the Middle East, we used to send samples back to a UK lab for testing.

Oh - you could always attach a cue word to the behaviour when you are using the target stick - so it's not actually the presentation of the stick, but the word that cues the behaviour. Then it would be easier to transfer it, already on cue, to the finger.

The nice thing about a 'prop' behaviour, such as a stick, or an object, is that the object itself becomes the cue, the signal to perform the behaviour. When the object is presented, their job is to touch it, or whatever. This is the difficulty of using yourself as the target - they will keep throwing the behaviour at you and look for that finger in order to earn a reward! To combat this you would have to give the behaviour a different, specific cue - basically you only get a reward if I have asked for the behaviour, not if you offer it spontaneously. I made this mistake with the same border collie - the first behaviour I ever taught him was to give a paw, but failed to put it on cue, so he kept whacking me with a paw to demand treats all the time. Most annoying! So if you wanted the bird to touch your finger, but only on cue, you would have to pick your cue word ('Touch'?) and practice the following: Present finger > Cue word > bird touches > click and treat Present finger > No Cue word > bird tries to touch > no click, no treat Present finger > No Cue word > bird doesn't try to touch > click and treat You'd need to practise them all lots, and mix them up, so that it is clear that targeting the finger gets the reward ONLY if the word 'Touch' comes first. If they are very eager to go for that finger, you need to get in there quick with the click and treat for not touching, in order to get the message across. You can gradually extend the period the finger is presented for before C&T for not touching, or, eventually giving the cue word and C&T for touching. It took me quite a while of clicker training with dogs before someone explained this, that you can click and treat for NOT doing the behaviour when you haven't asked for it, because that was the correct response. It made a huge difference to getting the behaviour 'on cue' and not happening 'off cue'. Takes a bit of thinking to get your head round, I can have another go at explaining if it's confusing....

Thinking of you today. I lost Pippa a year or so ago, when she flew out a door I'd left open. First thing I did was call all the local vets, scoured the neighbourhood and put out flyers. 7 hours later I had a call from my vets, someone had found a parrot behind their car. They were 3 streets away. I went to pick her up, asked 'would you like to go back to bed?' and she walked straight in her travel cage. Really rooting for you here xx

Agreed! I don't actually use a clicker with my bird, I make a particular noise with my mouth. There's no reason you can't use a specific word, but it should be one that the bird doesn't hear in any other context, so that there is a 1:1 ratio of hearing the noise and being rewarded. I also mostly don't use food as a reward with Pippa at the moment, as the only thing she would accept is peanuts! She would actually prefer to have a head scratch. The reward should be what the ANIMAL considers a reward, whether it be food, touch, attention, or even going away! What's the birdie equivalent of getting the tail wagging? heehee So it's the principle of MARKING the behaviour we like (click, whistle, kissy noise, word etc) in a consistant way, and following that mark with a REWARD (food, touch, attention, toys, games, access to something, going away), that we are aiming for. I'd really like to see more video of clicker principles applied to birds, help me make that crossover in my thinking from dogs. My dogs are easy - they always want the sweeties, all the time. Pippa however, is much more independant, has her own agenda, and if she thinks you are trying to *make* her do something, will refuse. Like a child. I think that's the joy of clicker training for me, that you are not making them do anything, they are free to do it, or not, as they wish. I don't believe clicker training is the be all and end all of training, by any means, but that in understanding the principles behind it, I have a much better grasp of how animals learn.

How many is too many? Pippa used to live on just peanuts and sunflower seeds. She is now on Harrison's but refuses to touch anything else. I am trying to be persistant and keep offering variety, but so far Harrison's is it. And peanuts. For training, I have tried doing treat tests, but the ONLY thing she will take is peanuts. She wouln't even recognise a peanut out of its shell at first, had to work on that so I can get at least 4 rewards out of one peanut.... But in total, per day, how many peanuts would be acceptable?

Yes, my bird is free to do her own thing too, I don't ask much of her at all. I'm not wanting to get to the stage of mega cuddles for my own benefit or anything (I've got dogs for that!), but being able to carry out husbandry tasks without worrying her, or move her wherever is necessary without a problem would be great. Oh, could anyone recommend any particular training books/DVD's (clicker or otherwise), there are so many out there! I've got Melinda Johnson's book.

Soo, back to your birds..... You'd need to introduce the clicker training first, there's plenty of information around on how to do that. You'd be best to teach a prop behaviour first, such as targeting an object with his beak. You could then get him to follow the target, including stepping up to get to it. The target keeping his sharp end busy may be enough to stop him biting you at that moment. Once he is used to it, you can use the clicker to mark any behaviour you like. So that would be 'being near my hand but not chomping it'. So, present your hand at a distance he cannot/doesn't want to chomp it. Click and treat for not trying to chomp. Once he is succeeding, you can gradually move your hand closer. If he moves beak towards fingers, remove your hand, no click, no treat. If he makes no move towards chomping, click and treat. The trick is to go slowly, lots of very short sessions and keep him interested in earning the treat. You can build up to very slight touches and tickles in places he likes, eventually increasing duration and areas you can touch. That would be clicking for not touching you, but as has been said, they need to touch to test and taste, which is completely natural and necessary. So maybe it would better to mark and reward gentle mouthing without biting. When he initially 'tastes' your fingers, he gets clicked for it. If he is keen on the clicker training at this point, he will probably let go straight away to collect his treat. Lots and lots of practice of touch and let go, and he will learn that doing it gently is worth his while. You have to go slowly though. If you go to fast....if you go too fast, and try touching him too much when he doesn't want it, if he bites you and you withdraw, he has learnt that BITING is worth his while, as it makes the thing that he doesn't want (touching) stop.

So, Dudley dog was chomping my hand when I was giving him treats. Over enthusiastic, competing with other dogs, teeth met hand regularly. It's easy to end up punishing, once the behaviour you don't want has already happened, and all you can do is react to it. The aim was to train something different BEFORE the chomping could happen. What I did was: 1) click and treat (dropped the food on the floor) while the dog was moving towards the hand. Waaaay before he actually got anywhere near to it. Repetitions of this made him hesitate on the way to the hand, rather than just going in all guns blazing 2) click and treat for his nose touching the hand. Stopped him going in with his teeth. 3) click and treat for the slightest show of a pink tongue 4) click and treat for LICKING the actual treat, releasing it onto his tongue. End result = dog licking a treat out of your hand, rather than chomping with teeth.

Hiya, this is in reply to Sanzoni's post.... Firstly, I'm pretty well versed in clicker training theory, have read a lot and done a fair bit with dogs, but AM NOT experienced in clicker training with birds. I'd be extremely interested to hear the views of those who are (and reward based non-clicker trainers too). These are just my thoughts, flung out there to consider, and discard if/when better information comes along. I enjoy the process of thinking it through, how could one approach such and such an issue, and what might be the hiccups along the way. I worked through a similar issue with a dog, so if it's ok, will outline what I did there, and then maybe we could discuss an equivalent for parrots? There will be big differences that have to be factored in - as Dave said, birds using their mouth as an extra hand, using it to explore, manouevre and comunicate. I think the number one issue though, is that you do not push your bird. If he is trying to communicate that he does not like what you are trying to do and wishes it to stop, you are pushing him too far. And every time he bites and you withdraw, you have reinforced it - biting makes the thing I don't want stop/go away. Be aware of what his comfort zone is, and work within it, aiming to not trigger a biting response at all.

Great stand. It took 18 months before Pippa would use her Java tree!

Hello, I'm a newbie here and not very experienced with birds, but have done a lot of clicker training with dogs. My immediate thought would to be mark and reward a lot, lot, earlier in the process - by the time his beak is on your fingers he's already practising his chomping behaviour. I did a similar thing with a dog that chomped on my hand whilst taking treats - I can outline an approach for your parrot in the 'Clicker Training' section if you would like - if there isn't a thread there already!

My Pippa is a 14 year old feather plucker, and I have no idea how long she's been doing it. All we can do is systematically work through the list to eliminate possible causes, and try our damdest to not reinforce it. Sounds like you're doing all the right things and I hope you'll find the key to it soon. Keep reading, keep listening, you never know where the crucial bit of information will come from.

No, it's not become a 'restaurant', but is now in one of the old fish market buildings, rather than a wooden shed! And has some permanent benches. Food is still yum

What extraordinary pictures, and an extraordinary individual. Thankyou so much for posting these wonderful pictures of your beautiful teacher, I'm very much looking forward to reading your pages.

Cap'n Jaspers! You've got to take her to Cap'n Jaspers for breakfast! Oh, and Sidmouth Folk Festival this week

I must admit to being a little aghast when first hearing that birds could eat chicken, and a little disturbed by pictures of it! I'm not doubting or criticising at all, it's just exposed a strong assumption in my head! I had a chuckle to myself yesterday, with an image of a Larson type cartoon, a traumatised bird watching me eat an egg.....

This one is probably obvious, and as a group we need no further proof of cognition rather than just mimicry.... I really feel that I haven't been talking with Pippa enough, and as a result her vocabulary is mostly extraordinary sounds rather than words. It would be wonderful if she was able to express herself in a way that was a bit more obvious for her stooopid hoooman to understand, so I need to pay more attention and give words more meaning for her. The last few days, I've frequently been asking 'What are you doing?' (I figured that once she starts asking that, I won't be able to resist answering and giving her a commentary). Sure enough, this morning, a voice came from downstairs calling 'What are you doing?' (I'm still in bed! will be down in a bit). But it wasn't in my voice. It was in the voice of an elderly man with a VERY strong Plymouthian accent! If it was purely mimicry, wouldn't she be attempting MY voice? Doesn't this mean she can recognise that they are the same words, despite sounding vastly different? Whether she understands the meaning of them (yet), we shall have to wait and see.

Many thanks

Ooooh, I have been shopping! Bottle of Aloe Juice, Aloe Vera plant, big willow tubey, circular rope swing, wood with holes to be stuffed with goodies, sisal string, stainless steel screws for MAKING THE NEW PLAYGROUND!! I am still in the planning stages, and very much enjoying seeing everyone's play areas and being inspired. Can't wait to make it, but this is serious business and I want to get it right! I'm moving into a much smaller place soon, so looking to build something that will fit on top of Pippa's bookcase. The clothes horse is great, but takes up floor space, and the bottom half doesn't get used anyway. Lambert58 - she let me spray her! I took Dave's advice of trying it close up, and it was much, much better than the falling rain approach I'd used before. I feel bad for not having persevered with this sooner, especially as she has feather/skin issues, but have felt very encouraged by everything I've read here