Tweedle

'Vetwrap' appears to be popular! This is the veterinary bandage that sticks to itself, but isn't sticky. Comes in a gazzillion different colours and patterns. I've been looking at sisal string, but need to master finishing the tail on the whipping so that madam can't undo it

Thankyou It's nice to have somewhere to talk about it! Do you think those will be 'proper' feathers or just fluffiness? They don't look very dense compared to the rest of her, I don't know whether she has damaged them over the years and may forever be 'sparse'. But hey, as long as she's happy, so what if she has a reverse Brazilian! heeheehee

We've just been to the pub Pippa seems very happy with her 'TARDIS', talking and squeeking, watching the world go round. And no plucking. Look! New growth!

Yes, Birdnut, the door size seems fine for Pippa, who is at the large end of the Grey spectrum! I put her in on my hand, but she climbs out on her own. The door faces into the zipped panel that goes against your back - that way no one can sneakily open the cage. My only criticism so far is that the cover is quite snug, so I think the strain on the bottom part of the zip will make that the first thing to go. I think I might see if I can get her to take water from a bottle, as walking around with any water in the bowl results in our getting a bit soggy! It's not big enough for her to stretch out much, so I wouldn't keep her in it for very long, but as a means to give her a change of scene, I think it's great. Long term aim would be to get her out on a harness though. We've just been to the pub

'Oh. No reaction. This human is broken. Let's try the other one....' Well done you for keeping level. Favourite advice I read (can't remember where) 1) Avoid the bite. 2) Do not react to the bite!

I've just imported the adventure pack from the US, bought it from this lady: http://www.parrot-and-conure-world.com/adventure-pack-cage.html Service was great, you do have to factor in customs charges too. Worked out marginally cheaper from this site than her Ebay shop. I first saw one at Sidmouth folk festival a couple of years ago, with one very happy grey enjoying the morris dancing and music. Hadn't seen one for sale in the uk at all. I used to use a plastic cat box with a perch drilled in for getting to the vets and back, but wanted something she could go outside and enjoy the world in. I looked at the Pak-O-Bird, but didn't like the mesh, and thought the Wingabago might get a bit warm if sunny. I also wanted something she could hold onto, with her feet not being great at perching, and she happily climbs all over the inside of it. We both seem to be very happy with it edit: right now she is hanging upside down in it, enjoying the sun in the garden.

Wow! Guess you live in the right place!

If only it were that easy! I'm a book addict, got loads on training animals in general but very inexperienced when it comes to birds. Pippa likes chewing books. If only 'ingesting' them imparted the knowledge Just found this: http://www.greyforums.net/forums/showthread.php?172837-Impressed-by-Good-Bird-Inc

I've been thinking of getting some bird training DVD's, and am dithering between Barbara Heidenreich and Ellen Cook - any recommendations? Anyone else you'd recommend/avoid?

Hmmmm, I'm concerned my post may have come over as in support of punishment, which is not the case at all. I think the point that I was trying to make is that in everyday situations punishment usually doesn't fix the problem, and may make it worse. Unfortunately, there has been plenty of scientific research showing that under particular circumstances punishment does work on birds, horrible, horrible experiments using electric shocks. There is also plenty of research showing that non-punitive methods are far more effective. So why would you use punishment to alter behaviour (with all it's potential fall out) when a more effective alternative has been clearly demonstrated? More importantly is the moral question - just because something works, doesn't make it right. Modify the behaviour, but at what cost? There is a bit of semantics here - my approach to training is 'reward the behaviour you want, ignore the behaviour you don't'. In technical tems, ignoring still counts as punishment - negative punishment in those four quadrants, the removing of a pleasant thing (attention) to discourage a behaviour. I think that's as strong as my punishment get's though. I'm quite uncomfortable with what I've seen of Dr.Pepperberg's use of 'scolding' in training. As has been said, these birds are so darn intelligent, they can also apply the same to us! And there is the whole question of what right we have to impose our demands on their behaviour at all. As I've said before, there are certain things that need to be done, and training husbandry/safety behaviours with positive methods and no distress to the bird is a good thing in my eyes. Good book/website for learning theory and why positive is where it's at: http://www.reachingtheanimalmind.com

Huzzah! Let's get out there! ...eventually....once she'll let me touch her....and get a harness on....

Agreed, babysweet, that those four quadrants have been proved to be effective - just about any 'method' that someone purports to work can be categorised as one of these. The practical application however, does come with certain caveats, and the fallout for getting it wrong can be hugely significant and detrimental to the animal/owner/relationship. i.e. positive punishment needs to be immediate, happen EVERY time the behaviour occurs, and be regarded by the animal as caused by it's behaviour rather than a person turning into a bit of a git. In certain circumstances, the use of aversives by (we agree) trained specialists may resolve issues, usually as a last resort. But many of my clients have difficulty marking and rewarding behaviour in a timely manner. My fear is that if they can't get a treat in their animal's mouth at the right moment, the chances of them being able to meet all the other criteria required with punishment as well are quite slim. All sorts of problems can be created and exacerbated this way. Whilst I would encourage anyone/everyone to look deeper at learning theory, and see exactly how it works, I would always be concerned to see aversive methods advocated on a forum such as this, and am far happier to see 'love and patience' as the philosophy. Maybe that's very patronising of me, to assume that some people will latch on to an aspect of it and apply it without fully understanding the implications, but I regularly see people applying techniques they have seen on television to their dogs, and causing big problems as a result.

Link not immediately working - need a space before your smiley!

Oh you poor things

I'm new here, and was getting two Tui's twisted! How many Tui's do we have overall?

Beautiful picture

That's a very heartening thing to hear. I've been using the Aloe Juice on Pippa for a week now, and do believe there is new growth coming through that hasn't been pulled out yet! The jury's still out, but I have everything crossed that this may be the thing that makes the difference.

I'm after some ideas for alternatives to use as training treats. Unfortunately Pippa is exceedingly conservative when it comes to food. After 5 days of adding sprouts to her Harrison's, she still hasn't eaten a single one. Any suggestions for treats? What are your bird's favourites? Pippa likes: 1) Peanuts 2) Peanuts 3) Peanuts 4) Sunflower seeds She seems to like millet, but not in an instant-take-it-as-a-treat thing.

I'd be interested to hear where they get that information, I've not heard it myself. I think it is illegal to release a parrot. I shall keep my ears open....

Your husband was talking about apples, or Tui was?

Well Pippa had an eventfull day. It was beak trimming time again. I have no idea how or when it happened, but she may have damaged her beak at some point to make it grow funny. Previously, it's been trimmed when the right side of her lower mandible has grown some way across the upper, not wanting to put her under anaesthetic any more frequently than necessary. But I got to thinking...once it starts creeping up that side, then forces acting upon it will only perpetuate this wonky growth. I was about to take her in a few weeks ago, when mysteriously the end was suddenly gone :eek: leaving just a tiny bit of overgrowth. So, I decided to get that trimmed back straight away, and keep up with it, hoping that we can encourage the tip to fit inside the upper mandible. Seeing as it was such a small amount, we decided to try and do it concious, which was fine. She was a little perturbed, but no more than when having an anaesthetic induction anyway. The funny bit was when the vet asked her to put her tongue back in, and she proceeded to stick it out as far as it would go. When we got home, she had a big old wander and a play on the table. She seems to have a thing about mugs, and dashes over as soon as you have a cup of tea. I wondered whether her old man used to give her tea to drink, but she only seems interested in throwing the cup around. I wondered whether giving her a cup in her cage would help her get over this obsession. I put a cup out to see what would happen. She was playing away, mouthing and throwing it, when I suddenly realised it was the same kissy frenzy she uses on my fingers before she gets frisky. And sure enough, the wings got lifted up and out slightly..... and then she decided to mount the mug. Or try to. Not an easy task when you are somewhat physically challenged in the leg department. I removed the mug. Is it ok to let them have inanimate objects to get jiggy with? Or will that also lead to more frustration? I decided to give her a water spray later on (cool her off a bit!), and though she tolerated it so far this week, she made her feelings clear today. She ran away, made a gurgley water noise, and shouted 'KNICKERS!' Another of her old man's expletives... I've been very inspired by Shanlung's writings about working with his birds, so have taken many steps backwards to really work on trust and very, very, basic handling tasks with Pippa. I doubt very much whether she/we could ever get to the point of free flying, but perhaps to be able to take her outside safely on a harness would help add more colour to her life. Even if that were not possible, I think there is a great deal to be learnt from Shanlung's approach to birds, and I do so enjoy his writing and beautiful pictures.

That's the badger! I started by saying 'back to bed' and putting one peanut on her platform, and another in her food bowl. I'd pat the platform with my hand, then leave her to it. She just can't resist that peanut! Once it was happening easily, I waited til she was actually on the platform before delivering the treat, so it was a reward not a bribe. I would practice it without closing the door sometimes too, just so that it doesn't always mean the end of the fun/

She gets about ok though, just slowly.

I managed to get some pictures of Pippa's poorly feet - wondered whether any of you have seen this sort of thing before? If you've had a bird with this sort of problem, have you got any tips for making life easier for them? Many thanks.

I'm not sure whether you're taking the mick or serious :confused: The whole point is that it's not a training trauma, they completely have the choice to play or not to play. And that's the way we present it, as a fun game, there's no shouting, no physical chastisement at all. I completely understand where you're coming from with a rescue bird, particularly one that has a traumatic past, in not wanting to impose anything unneccesary on them, and just give them the freedom to 'be'. But in my case, with my rescue bird, there are certain things that have to be done, and training them in a positive way massively reduces stress. For example, Pippa is out of her cage all the time that I am home. When I go out she needs to go back in the cage. When she first arrived, you would have to physically place, or herd her into her cage, something that was very stressful for her. She has now been taught to take herself back to her platform when I ask 'Back to bed, Pippa?' She also needs medication every day. She will now move to a specific place every day, waiting to touch her tongue on the end of the syringe to take her one drop of Metacam. Again, no chasing around, no physical oppression. As for it being time consuming, heck, aren't we hoping for 50 years with these guys? We've got plenty of time. Training sessions themselves literally last a few minutes, they're not being drilled for hours and hours at a time. I train during advert breaks, and maybe only do 5 quick repetitions of a particular thing, if she is interested in doing it. As for sending them away (*hopes you're just trying to wind me up*) what about the bond? Apart from the damage separation could do, training enhances your bond, strengthens trust, and adds stimulation to both lives. And as I said before, I don't believe clicker training is the 'only' way, by any means. I am not a regimented school ma'am, I don't buy in to 'scolding' them. We are all training our birds, all the time, with every single interaction reinforcing some behaviours and diminishing others. All I'd like to do is make my communication with Pippa as clear and gentle as possible, and understanding the way she learns helps that.