katana600

Thank you Ray! You always have something that encourages me to look deeper and to learn more. We have been having some more outdoor work done. It has been a long road but the new contractor has been enjoying the hummingbirds and he told me about the ones he has seen in Costa Rica. I have been reading about them. Now I will add these Cuban cousins to my reading list.

We learn more from our struggles and that makes us better people overall. Something I learned from Miss Gilbert helped me to understand my family of origin a little better. A parrot's mental health and outlook on life is a combination of nature, nurture and life experience. As we make small differences in our daily lives, the history of experience changes ever so slowly, in grey time. When Miss Gilbert came to us, I had no clue what I was getting myself into. I just knew that we were going to learn together. I didn't know if she would ever talk until the day I picked her up. Sarah didn't want to advertise that this little creature could say some wonderful things as not to influence someone wanting a novelty. She also didn't want to have someone dissuaded by the prolific cussing. That is probably good that I was naïve. Now that we are making progress with Miss Gilbert and she is showing a different, kinder, gentler side of her innate character, I am ever so grateful to the members here saying how wonderful it would be when our work together started to show promise. What I needed was a shift of thinking from what I believed was success five years ago to what I know today was is hard work. She has done some incredibly hard work shaking loose her baggage. I am impressed that she is willing to show me her heart. I am more impressed that she is learning to play and to be light hearted and joyful. It may take a lot of looking at her sideways when she doesn't seem to know I am there to see these glimpses, but each time it makes me so grateful to know her. Of course, she has been looking at me sideways the whole time getting a "read" on me too. There where early days when I was concerned that I had jumped into the deep end without checking how far I was from the edge, but even in the worst of times I had all of you ready to toss me a lifeline and help me along a little. I have no regrets. All along the hardest thing I have had to do is to wait. I have always thought you couldn't reach success without doing. Miss Gilbert has taught me that success is about being, just being.

Inara is your kindred spirit with a gift for words. You have a good approach for a rehomed grey from a loving home. It was different circumstances for us welcoming Miss Gilbert and I slept on it for five months or better. Just as your previous rescues prepared you to bring home Inara, our love and loss of sweet babies prepared my heart for the gift of Gil girl. I am so happy for the experience you have had with Inara HRH, you are a well deserved match and lucky to have Joe putting up .... I mean taking care of both of you. :rolleyes:

We have a different relationship with Miss Gilbert so nobody really gets favored treatment. But... when Java was young, she had to test everyone. It wasn't just a nip if someone got close. She would actually seek people out with aggressive behavior. Our youngest daughter had just left for her second college semester out of state when Java came home with us. On spring break, Java was awful. She would dive bomb, pull hair and stalk our daughter. In turn, our daughter would post on FaceBook pictures of our "devil bird" with flashing red eyes. What I did was to put Java in her cage after any hostility on her part. Then our whole family would leave the room. After about ten minutes I would have my daughter go upstairs with a stick perch to offer to "rescue" Java and bring her to the flock. Also, Java had no flight ability and hated to be on the floor. Her wings were grossly cut back and she would fall off a perch to the floor and that is when she would step up onto Kelsey's hand so grateful to have a lift back to safety that she didn't attempt to bite. We held tight to the one for all and all for one and we called Java's bluff. There were a few bites in particular to my husband and even though, at the time, I did think he deserved it, I would chastise Java and return her to her cage and we would all leave the room briefly. She won't let anyone else rub her head like I do and certainly no one else wants to be so close as to let her lay on her back in their hands, but she is respectful and will step up for any of us now. It takes a lot of time, dedication and sharing treats etc. We have had Java ten years and she is sweet to everyone.

I have had a lot of urges to find Jim and had no luck. Early on, I had a fantasy that I would find Jim, he would be in a different place than when he let her go and would come in and turn her life into happiness and sunshine. But alas, that was just a dream. From what I could infer from what I learned from her previous caregiver, Miss Gilbert had at least four homes. She should have been about seven years old from the hand-me-down stories. At this point, we have what we have together and certainly I know her triggers for a really bad days. She spent her life around Biloxi MS, probably through a few major hurricanes and upheaval. She most recently before us lived on a military base. She has lots of danger signals, sirens, foghorns etc. in her repertoire. Early on thunderstorms would leave her frantic, but now she takes them in stride, although if it is in the middle of the night I will hear a quiet little quavering voice say "Gilbert okaaaayy". Packing boxes put her into a spin early on as well. Now she has been on the road tens of thousands of miles and has returned home each time and it doesn't seem to be such a big deal to her. I still smile about our vet early on dubbing her "The Cussin' Cajun". She really does seem to be coming into her own lately, it is wonderful. She will ask me sweetly for a cracker when she hears me in the kitchen. Her cussing has been minimal, just a strategically placed word now and again but not the all day grumpfests of our early years. My very favorite "new" thing in the past two months is that she can't get enough head scratches and is allowing me to reach through her open cage to really rub her head and neck. There have not been any lunges or sucker-bites... knock wood. She even makes these breathy little clicks and does some head bobbing to "feed me back" after a favored treat of a grape or watermelon. We are in a good place and I do believe there are bigger and better things in her future.

I certainly get that it would be a leap of faith to open that cage for the first time. We have hawks that make me fear for my 10 lb dogs and when I see a shadow flash through the back yard it will make my heart skip a beat. When you lovingly tend your pigeons, watch the young hatch and grow, they become part of you. The fact that you have happy memories of your pigeon following you on your motorcycle tells me that when your babies take flight and come home to you that the thrill of them doing what they are meant to do will give you such happiness and strength to hold your breath and let them take flight. Kind of like our kids when they find their way without us. There will be so many new experiences with your pigeons, I hope for all good flights and homecomings.

Thank you for taking an interest in Smokey and trying to find ways to help him through this transition. It's a tough spot to be in when your supervisor is the decision maker. Hopefully your observations will be well received and you can all work together to get Smokey through the transition of job changes with his caretakers. He is a beautiful parrot and you will find yourself being a "bird person" before you know it. We have a rehomed parrot and it has taken her a long time to accept changes that came into her life without her permission. If you pay attention and listen to Smokey you will learn his preferences. You are on the right track with giving him things to destroy. One of Miss Gilbert's favorites is a roll of paper tape for adding machines. Make sure it isn't the thermal fax kind, it very inexpensive and you can find it at Sam's Club and places like that. Each parrot will have "favorites" such a leather toys, wood toys, puzzle toys etc. When you are thinking of changing cages it would be helpful to know how long he has been in his current cage. It would be good to keep the old cage and let him choose which one he wants to be in. My best tip in dealing with a new bird and out of cage time is if possible do it at night because you can turn off most of the lights, make it dim in the room and they naturally will not want to fly and will be ready to return "home" for the night. I live in Georgia, northeast Atlanta. I am not a bird expert by any means, I just love my African Grey Timneh and would be willing to volunteer if you are near just to stop by and visit with Smokey and see if there is any help I could offer. I understand this is a new situation, new supervisor and all. I understand and will not impose, just know I have some free time and would come to you.

Now there is a wonderful idea. They are all beautiful, I like them all. I had no idea there was official pigeon business. LOL. The only ones I have seen are at the airport. I always wonder if they are trying to discover a path to stow away and get back to their homes somewhere. It will be interesting to follow along and see how your hatchlings do in training. Are there competitions and such in Texas for pigeons or is it more of a solitary hobby?

I liked thinking of us as shades of grey until advertisements for books and movies that put a whole new spin on things. :rolleyes: Welcome to Grey Forums Keeks! I used to be a dog person but getting to know African greys may have changed that part of me forever. I still enjoy my dogs but the idea that Miss Gilbert needs a footnote in my will puts her in a different category. I'm looking forward to reading more about Smokey, your coworker. LOL. Be careful, Smokey will have you wrapped around a gnarly little talon before you know what hit you.

The grey ones look so similar, will you band the offspring to be able to tell them apart or are you able to discern from behavior etc. which are the babies and which are the parents when the young are fully grown? I did notice with the black and white set, the markings are distinctive and one has black toenails etc. They are all beautiful. I'm a sucker for those iridescent colors on the darkest one of set three. There is something magical about allowing them to fly free and return home to you, or to follow you on your motorcycle etc. Your wife is exceptional and tuned in to the things that make your heart flutter. Well done in training her. Hahahaha.

Poppy is a lucky little girl, as are you and yours lucky to spend time with an intelligent, loving little character. It may not be a sexual response, I am not sure exactly what they are thinking when they do the love dance. Gilbert has just recently started doing those breathy, clicky sounds when I scratch her head or when I bring a coveted treat like a grape or pistachio. You have the right idea to distract her and redirect, especially since she is starting to get rough at that point. Teaching her that using her beak is only for gentle play is important, she doesn't have a reference point for what it feels like to you or your kids. Miss Gilbert has come a long way, she still has a long way to go. I still have much to learn and even then I know we are barely scratching the surface of "knowing" parrots. It is enlightening to consider our companions may only be one generation from being in the wild. Many of the parent birds are wild caught. Some, like Phenix (Birdhouse/Val) can still remember being in their native environments. They are still very much wild creatures and we have an obligation to work to the best of our ability to create a lifetime of commitment to them. You and Poppy have a lifetime of learning together, I am glad to be a part of that.

Glad to see the networking through forum members. For everyone who has been reading about Isaac and Stephen's time together it is a blessing to find someone else willing to get to know Isaac and help care for him during brief times when Stephen can bear to be apart from his boi. Love it.

I'm a believer Ray. I have read here that as breakthroughs pop up now and then while building trust that each new phase comes with greater frequency. I van see that happening with Gil over the past couple of months. She is gaining ground quickly. I've noticed that not only is she asking for more head scratches she is starting to show a real appreciation for my praises and attention. Today, through the bars I kissed her right on the top of her head. She pulled back, eyed me suspiciously, then tucked her hear to let me kiss her again. Then I heard her later today making real quiet kiss sounds like she is trying it out for herself.

I have no problem admitting I laughed. A lot. Because it wasn't me. But there was that time I was having a sundae cone at my computer desk and dropped a bit. I scooped it up quickly to eat it before Java could get to it and it was warm and definitely not ice cream. A split second later and it would have been my max gross out. But look on the bright side.... Some celebrities pay big money for guano facials to hold onto their youthful beauty. Inara and Joe were just treating you to a luxurious lifestyle.

The drooping wings and breathy sounds in the video look like "love" offerings. If she pumps her head, that's working up to regurgitating. Sometimes my parrots get overcome and go through a phase of this. It comes and goes. The general advice we are given is not to touch below the neck because touching or petting their back will sometimes put them in the mood. It makes sense too that she gets rough after a session of the love dance. I love her baby photos. Every time I see these delightful, precious babies it reminds me of the sweetness and trusting nature of innocence. Miss Gilbert started out like this somewhere. She hit a rough patch but we are seeing a new outlook. The baby pictures you posted give me a tenderness toward Gil and lets me think of where she has been.

As much as I hate that you have gone back to square one, I am hoping it propels your doctors to pursue other options to help you get better and stay better. Every time mine flares up, I think I will go for a study to see what has changed in spinal recuperation. Then, I am so grateful for the worst to be behind me, I tell myself "next time". Keep a diary. Sometimes you have to keep seeking answers while you are feeling great. Be a fierce warrior to get the help you need. Hang in there through the cycle! I hope you can take comfort from those of us out here sharing your burden. I wished we lived close to you so I have someone to share meals and help with Dorian. It is so familiar. Mine started with a wild water skiing accident. The moments before impact were exhilarating. Hahaha.. Disk removal, scar tissue removal, two spinal fusions and almost forty years later it is shifting and probably the motorcycle riding and a few other activities are flaring up the arthritis. Knock wood, it has been five years since it took me out the last time. I have always steered clear of opiods because of the risk of addiction. Recently I have found that Aleve (naproxyn sodium) has been helpful, but again, for chronic pain we have to weigh long term usage. Do your doctors try steroids to help during the acute phase?

Well now, who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks. I checked out those links and would you believe I have a couple of those hard acrylic foraging balls in different configurations? Originally I got them for food purposes, but the idea of putting interesting things in there that they really can't get out never would have occurred to me. Now that Miss Gilbert is at a new phase of life and beginning to play, I will get them out and see what I can do to stimulate her interest. As for the cow bells... just today I discovered the mysterious noise that no mechanic has been able to find for the past year. It was a cowbell!!! When we traveled, I used it for our dogs. We went to so many different houses, I would tie the cowbell on the door handle so they knew which door to go outside and to ring that bell when they needed the thumbs to open the door for them. It ended up in a small basket I keep in my trunk. I will bring that in for Miss Gilbert too. It wasn't the sound that was offensive, I just thought my car was falling apart. The beauty of this forum is the many minds coming together and helping us all to benefit from the treasures of the group. Thanks!

You are absolutely right on all counts. Our mindset going into this, what we thought was our definition of success and where we evolved to with our parrots have a very different viewpoint. For me, as it seems with you, I went in with a commitment that it wasn't just to try it out, but to do whatever it takes. I had a fairly good idea it wasn't going to be easy but confidence that it would be worth doing. With a warm, cuddly appreciative puppy, it is easy to feel good about living with him. With a blazingly intelligent creature with a goal that is not necessarily to please her "captor", it isn't as clear cut. What I do know about Gilbert and other companion parrots is we make the best choices we can to create a healthy environment with what we have. In one sense, if we had the power to know what we now know without removing these beautiful creatures from the wild, would we still do that? But in the cards we are dealt, I am more certain every day that Gilbert's life is better, my life is better and I have grown as a human being by the struggle of finding a way to make her feel safe.

As a child, I remember thinking I was with the wrong family. I had a fantasy that my real parents were looking for me, that they were wonderful and the world would change when they finally found me. With Gilbert, in my times of fervently wishing for her life to be better. I often thought of the way she called out for Jim. I wondered if I could find him, if he could be the magic link to make life better. Now I have reached acceptance that what we have is the best it can be for our Miss Gilbert. I have accepted the dreaded N word as in she will never fly. She may never relax and feel safe. That's okay now. The alternative of someone dropping out of a rainbow and having a magical connection to her could happen but I am not spending energy fantasizing about that any more. I am hers. She is okay. I won't look back wishing for a different outcome because although we have worked hard and struggled, we are good together. Today I can be certain that I wouldn't change a thing. We have learned wonderful things together. Phenix can't show you that you are wonderful, but I think if he could, he would say you are okay too.

That is so sweet, thanks. The trailblazers who taught me to watch and wait for her to teach me the next move are my heroes. Waiting has been my hardest task. Learning grey time, then taking chances to push just a tiny bit at opportune times has been the best approach with this complex and blazingly intelligent little creature. My reward is to see her close her eyes and melt under my touch. It seems like a miracle when she waits for a favored treat because she has reached the place where she wants my touch more than she wants to eat.

Thank you for joining us Kim, welcome to the forum. It won't be long before you are wondering about Kya - who rescued whom? With Miss Gilbert we hear "wanna cracker?" repetitively and it just means she is hungry and wants attention. That is her go-to phrase for food of any kind. She has gotten to ask for a "treat" when she hears us in the refrigerator. That could be a grape, watermelon, a tiny tidbit of cheese, reheated beans or mash. Hopefully for you and Kya, the change of scenery, attention, a bigger cage and a varied diet will perk his interests and you will have him so busy he won't think of plucking. Unfortunately for Miss Gilbert it is a cycle. Any kind of stress, even good fun stress will see her revert to chewing and barbering her chest feathers. We don't get too worried about it. It will pass and she will be back into her "reasonably rumpled" little ole self in no time. I am looking forward to learning more about your life and adventures too.

Many times in the past five and a half years, I have wondered if I was doing the right thing by Miss Gilbert. Many times I wondered if I was making progress with her. Sometimes the question would come to my mind, "If I knew then what I know now, would I have taken her in?" The answer is a resounding YES! It took five months of soul searching to ask myself if I could commit to a bird with issues, forever. Once I made that decision there has been no looking back, no wishing I hadn't done it. Sure, I wondered if we were enough for her. I wondered if there would have been a better "click", a natural fit, better for her. The thing that always made me feel strong and capable was reading this forum. There are many rehomed parrots here who have thrived in a second home better than the first. So many of you have welcomed tough cases were my trailblazers and hope for Miss Gilbert. For those of you out there with second-hand parrots, would you do it again?

Wouldn't it be a tremendous service if this site not only took off, but expanded to include adoption records along the way? It would be good for networking among our parrot companions to share information that is hereditary, to trace our beloved parrot's "nature and nurture", and to learn more about our collective efforts. Thanks for posting this link.

Thanks Val. All I know about parrots, I learned here on this forum. Long ago, I recall our first breakthrough was from watching Phenix with Limeade. She loved that and I used it judiciously to draw closer to her. Miss Gilbert has been an education in trauma and healing. In the past two days, with a houseful of family, she has been allowing everyone to rub her head in the special spot in her cage. She has also come out of her cage for both sons-in-law. The thing that has really tugged at my heartstrings is how she is now closing her eyes while I rub her head. She leans into the rub, and makes breathy little clicking noises of approval. It took a really long time to see an emotional response from her that was positive. Pinning her eyes took years to achieve. Now she is relaxed enough to close her eyes. This is huge for her, even more huge for me because I recognize how much strength and trust it has taken for her to reach this pinnacle of trust. The thing that changed? Her cage. In the beginning, I bought the biggest cage I could fit in my room. Then I bought a size smaller and she started letting me pet her head without bars between us, through an open nesting door. Then, we traveled and I discovered my daughter's cat could terrorize her in the mid sized cage. At that time we were away from home. I bought the taller "breeder style" cage of three stacking units. Although it is smaller in cubic feet, it is the same size in horizontal footage that she would have in the biggest cage. This seems to have given her confidence. Like all our greys, Gil Girl is a unique individual. She just happens to get more calm and relaxed in a smaller space without human intrusion any more than possible. We offer her attention and when she is receptive she comes to the front of her cage. When she wants privacy and to be left alone, she retreats to the back. Everyone knows to just speak softly to her and not come any closer when she retreats. It is seldom that she withdraws now. Cuss words are fewer and less frequent. I believe we are enjoying the benefits of patiently waiting for grey time.

Sully has a beautiful vantage point to soak in the sun. He is simply gorgeous.