Mistyparrot

I understand. Elat is a long way from anywhere! I spent around four months there 66 to 67 as a hippy on the beach:) Perhaps your local vet could take a blood sample for analysis. The Hasharon Veterinary Center could arrange analysis. As far as showers go Greys like most parrots need the opportunity for a good splash around or even a gentle misting.It helps to keep feathers in good condition. I use a large plastic dish with Misty He absolutely loves it:D. Aloe Vera is very good to put in the water. It is great for skin and feathers and is non toxic. If you have a garden it may be growing there already! I don't suppose there is still a Leons Cafe still there? Steve n Misty

I didn't think Israel was that big! Are you in Elat? Steve n Misty

As in many things, for finding Avian vets in Israel, Google is your friend. Bing work as well

I would be inclined to have other voices than you own and some music or even recordings of jungle sounds. Save your own voice for helping him to associate words and phrases with meaningful activity. Most of the words and phrases that Misty has he can use in some kind of context when he chooses and those are in my voice. Your voice is special to Gandalf so don't waste it. Steve n Misty

Don't you know you can't keep secrets from a Grey! They know all;)

Misty does that. Just now and then but he has always done it and he is in good health and has been since I got him seven or eight years ago. I am also curious if anyone else can shed some light. Like all Greys he always has feathers regrowing somewhere including on his head so it might just be a way of responding to an itch. Or perhaps relayering his neck feathers. They tend to slide over each other as he moves his head around and perhaps the odd one gets a little out of place. I am just guessing of course . Like Misty Gandalf looks to be quite happy and normal to me. Of course if you think he shakes excessively a quick check with your avian vet might be advisable. Steve n Misty

It is not hearsay if the doctor or nurse themselves give the evidence but if you quote or paraphrase their opinion it is hearsay. The reason courts don't accept hearsay evidence is because it is not possible to cross examine the original source. Courts only accept expert testimony directly from the expert not from a third party for that reason. Shanlung was not challenging you as you seem to think. He was not calling you out he was trying to give his opinion in answer to a question you posed. You believe his assertion on the dangers of clipping are "flat out wrong" but he is far from alone in his belief. I personally know someone who lost a clipped parrot to dog because it was unable to fly off. The poor thing was chased around a garden in a panic and was killed before it could be rescued. Escaped parrots have also been seen to be mobbed by wild birds. A clipped bird would stand little chance of escape from that situation. Shanlung is far from flat out wrong. Shanlung's assertions are not based on " groundless speculation or baseless feelings." They are based on years of parrot keeping and experience. This is a classic innuendo: I don't know where you get the idea that Shanlung is promoting some kind of ideology. I find it a bit odd that you equate one persons recommendation that a parrot should be allowed to be fully flighted for all kinds of psychological ,physiological and safety reasons with another's that feeding a parrot raw garlic is a good idea. It is not right that you associate Shanlung with that. I think it is good that we have this forum to discuss our experiences and ideas but please don't take offence where none was intended. As Nancy has said what we all want is for our birds to be healthy happy and safe. Steve n Misty

Nancy, are you saying that you have had your birds outside and they cannot fly further than 16 ft ? Or is it that you ensure they do not go out? If that is so and they get outside and are spooked you may be shocked how far they can fly. If you are clipping in the belief that if the opportunity arose they could not fly off I fear you are mistaken. As you have made sure your birds can fly properly in the safety of your home I would think their wing muscles are quite well developed so the clip probably has much less effect than you think. It is possibly pointless. I would never suggest you clip them harder. Suffice to say I would never clip Misty. He came to me seven years ago unhappy and clipped but is now very happily fully flighted Steve n Misty

In reply to Luvparrots, Surely "Cutting words" in a debate about clipping are in a way oddly appropriate:o Yours in jest Steve n Mistyparrot

You told us that your niece and a vet friend made a claim about frequency of injuries to unclipped birds versus clipped birds. That is hearsay. It is not your direct experience. You say nothing about the kinds of birds how they were kept or the nature of their injuries. Were either of your sources avian vets? Also bear in mind that a clipped parrot that died of its injuries is unlikely to be seen by a vet. So the statistics that your sources claim may not tell the whole story. It may not be unreasonable to suggest that the kinds of injuries a clipped bird is prone could be quickly fatal. Shanlung's statistics are no less valid and are open to some analysis. You have every right to your opinion but don't go trashing Shanlung's views. they are based on years of experience and interaction with other parrot keepers. And now you are casting innuendoes against him. Not a good way to make friends. This is an open forum. In another thread you asked a pertinent question about clipping but you said you did not want that thread to turn into a clipping debate. As a friendly gesture to you Shanlung gave an opinion as valid as any to try answer your question. He started a new thread. He did not "Call you out" you make it seem that he was challenging you somehow! You don't have to follow his advice but please don't insult him or his experience. Thanks for the link. I did not burrow down deep enough. Steve n Mistyparrot

Thats odd. You just made a claim based on hearsay !! I know few more expert or respected or experienced parrot keepers than Shanlung. I would certainly trust his judgment. When I first adopted Misty I consulted with several avian veterinary specialists and they all strongly advised that wing clipping was a very very bad idea for the physical, mental and safety of a pet parrot. One told me that the risks to the parrot resulting from clipping far outweigh those from allowing a bird to be fully fledged. Most also had strong feelings against irresponsible pet sellers who sold parrots usually clipped to people who are totally unprepared for what properly keeping a parrot involves. Another told me that he hated having to deal with birds that were clipped for the convenience of the keeper because they felt they were unable to give it a safe home otherwise. Only one vet I spoke to thought that clipping was a good idea and he was not an avian specialist. Mark you this is a perspective from the UK and I know that clipping is still common in the US as are ceiling fans which can be deadly for a flighted bird. To me if you cannot live without a ceiling fan then perhaps you are not really suitable to keep a parrot in security and safely. By the way does Texas A&M university emergency animal clinic have an avian specialist? I could see no reference on their extensive website. Steve n Misty

Misty also adores beak rubs and will allow me to finger his beak almost any time. He also loves beak kisses and will climb up my chest and plant his beak on my lips to initiate a beak snog But neck rubs or scritches are a different matter. Unless he has specifically invited me he will avoid my attentions. He invites me by sitting at my shoulder or on my knee and says "You're allright" or "Tickle tickle". then he will insist on gentle neck rubs until he is satisfied. He looks to be in some kind of ecstasy and moves his head to direct my attentions to the current spot. It can go on for many minutes. He will object if I touch any other part of his body and his wings are a definite no go area. If I so much as accidentally brush against a wing he screams like a demented banshee. I put this down to poor handeling by a previous keeper when he was wing clipped. He is of course never clipped now. Steve n Misty

Misty dropped a big hint that it is bath time by climbing into the water bowl on his perch. So I filled his plant pot dish as a bath. And now to dry off with a good flap

Hello PetitOne. Yes it was your post that inspired me to write. I am fine at the moment but I also have COPD but it is relatively mild so I don't have any imminent plans to relinquish this mortal coil as they say but as there is an outside possibility that I am not immortal it makes sense to make provision. Misty occasionally takes the mick by coughing like me Misty does have a perverse sense of humor sometimes ! The first time he did it I thought he was sick but he was fine ! I know he talks in my voice and I have recordings of lost loved ones that I find hard to listen to but I am glad to have so that is why I put the question up. I am so glad that Buddy gives you so much happiness. I am certain from my own experience that he would have been a good friend to your brother.Your brother would have had great comfort knowing that you would give Buddy a loving home. Steve n Misty

I was reading a post just now from a member who had just adopted their brothers Grey. It occurred to me that as Greys tend to speak in their humans voice one must feel a whole range of mixed feelings hearing their lost loved ones voice in that way. As I am likely to KTB before Misty I would prefer a close relative to adopt him but how difficult could that be for his adopter ?

I would be inclined to disturb them as little as possible at this stage. They are obviously getting very protective.

I am thrilled for you. Will that make you a grandparront? Do keep us posted and pics lots of pics please! Steve n Misty

It just a glass of water. Steve n Misty

Indeed. Misty always shares my mealtimes and often my food when it is suitable. In fact most of my food is now prepared to be parrot friendly. If ever I eat out I miss him and feel a little guilty! ( Yes I am thinking of making an appointment with trickcyclist ).:eek: Steve n Misty

Well kins2321@yahoo.com I for one agree with you. I think a little time out gets the message across very well. I do the same with Misty on the rare occasions when he tries to take a chunk out. He sits on his perch in his cage and says " Be good boy'" "No biting" and "Can I come out". The only words I am sure he understand are "Can I come out" because he will use that expression when ever he thinks he is too long in his cage but I think the other two phrases are what he associates with the event and he knows that he has upset me and those phrases seem to work on me in that context. Never the less a little bit of "Time out" does seem to get the message across without unnecessary trauma and it does seem to work with no hard feelings from either party. I must point out that in all cases he bites when I have not read the signs and I do know his triggers although to me as a mere human they don't seem that rational so mistakes are made occasionally. This procedure does seem to work because some of the situations when he used to be tempted are now not a problem. The only trigger point for him now seems to be " The empty glass" or the "Water tumbler". If he comes across either he will try to engage with it and for obvious reasons I tend to intervene to avoid water being spilt or worse. For what ever reason he regards my interference as an affront to the dignity of Grey kind and will defend his interest with excessive enthusiasm. In all other situations he is a real cuddle bunny but this will set him off! There is something about water that can get him exited. Steve n Misty

You know you live with a Grey when: You find yourself with white fluff all over. When chocolate is a guilty pleasure. when you look longingly at an avocado pear on the green grocer stall. When you find you keyboard has had an incomplete service. When you favorite book has peculiar triangular cut outs on your open page. Steve n Misty:eek:

Misty used to regularly "service" my iMac keyboard until I got transparent rubber protector for it from that auction site we all love to hate. Now he no longer messes with the keys although he still takes great delight in flying over and jumping on it when ever I spend to much time on it and he feels I am ignoring him. Come to think of it living with a Grey is a bit like being married to a very demanding partner! Talon, I have found that taping a Jaycloth so it hangs down the back of the screen stops Misty landing on it because the turbulence from his wings causes it to rise up and it puts him off landing. You never see it normally. Steve n Mistyparrot

I had followed ALEX's progress for some years and when he died it was like losing a treasured friend and I had never even met him! How much harder must it have been for Irene. Anyone who has had or has a parrot as a companion knows they are far more than simply a pet. No animals sentience or intelligence should ever be taken for granted or underestimated. Steve n Misty

My Misty loves to beat up the plastic spray bottles I use on him. Greys are like small children. Their imagination will make a fun toy of anything! Steve n Misty

I asked Misty and this is what he said: Just kidding. He has never met one Steve n Misty